World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

(Apr. 21, 2020  12:19 PM)Limetka Wrote: [ -> ]Aiga is unironically the best protagonist Beyblade as a franchise ever had.

Say sike right now.

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:06 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ], I agree. Valt had very little character development, and Drum was Valt all over again, but worse. While Aiga went through character development, and corruption.

I hope the Sparking characters have good development.

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:07 AM)UltimateMaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:06 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ], I agree. Valt had very little character development, and Drum was Valt all over again, but worse. While Aiga went through character development, and corruption.

I hope the Sparking characters have good development.

I think they will as you can’t have siblings as the two main characters and just have no development.

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:10 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:07 AM)UltimateMaster Wrote: [ -> ]I hope the Sparking characters have good development.

I think they will as you can’t have siblings as the two main characters and just have no development.

Yeah.

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:11 AM)UltimateMaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:10 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ]I think they will as you can’t have siblings as the two main characters and just have no development.

Yeah.

That’d be like Beyblade Burst Fusion without character development.

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:06 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ], I agree. Valt had very little character development, and Drum was Valt all over again, but worse. While Aiga went through character development, and corruption.

I disagree. Valt was a hero, Aiga was and remained a douchbag. Drum was a boring little annoying brat. Delta was a bad a** though. Valt went from only wanting to win and being cocky to losing to Lui respectfuly. And the thing is, Valt was always likeble, Aiga was always a douch and took his friends for granted, he didnt deserve to beat Valt at the Final battle. He was redeemed in GT though.

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:15 AM)g2_ Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:06 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ], I agree. Valt had very little character development, and Drum was Valt all over again, but worse. While Aiga went through character development, and corruption.

I disagree. Valt was a hero, Aiga was and remained a douchbag. Drum was a boring little annoying brat. Delta was a bad a** though. Valt went from only wanting to win and being cocky to losing to Lui respectfuly. And the thing is, Valt was always likeble, Aiga was always a douch and took his friends for granted, he didnt deserve to beat Valt at the Final battle. He was redeemed in GT though.

Aiga being hated then being respected is my point exactly. He grew.

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:18 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:15 AM)g2_ Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree. Valt was a hero, Aiga was and remained a douchbag. Drum was a boring little annoying brat. Delta was a bad a** though. Valt went from only wanting to win and being cocky to losing to Lui respectfuly. And the thing is, Valt was always likeble, Aiga was always a douch and took his friends for granted, he didnt deserve to beat Valt at the Final battle. He was redeemed in GT though.

Aiga being hated then being respected is my point exactly. He grew.

Not in Cho-Z though, he sucked in every single Cho-Z Episode. He seemed much better in Gachi.

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:21 AM)g2_ Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:18 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ]Aiga being hated then being respected is my point exactly. He grew.

Not in Cho-Z though, he sucked in every single Cho-Z Episode. He seemed much better in Gachi.

Your point is?

I’m with g2 on this one, I prefer valt as a character. And imo Aiga was a sissy until gt. He’s gotten good character development. Aiga is fine, but for me, not the level of valt and Tyson

I think both Valt and Aiga both have their strong points so it's hard to decide who's better.

Valt's skills do progress more naturally as it takes him quite a while to develop into a champion, losing to quite a lot of people at first before eventually getting better and even becoming the best. His character has also changed from being a complete goofy idiot who lacked the knowledge and fundamentals to being a pro who can mentor younger bladers. Plus, he went from being kind of a sore loser to someone with good sportsmanship.

However, Aiga's character is a bit more interesting. He's the first Beyblade protagonist to wield a Balance-Type bey so he doesn't just rely on attacking and instead, has to be more versatile with his skills. He's also the first protagonist to not be purely good, meaning he was corruptible and had the potential of becoming evil. His journey is about trying to stop him from going down the wrong path and grow as a character.

There's the complaint that Aiga is more unlikable than Valt and whilst that is true, Aiga does learn to grow out of his bratty behaviour and he does it more naturally. As I've said, Aiga isn't pure good like Valt so he's easily corrupted at first.

(Apr. 24, 2020  1:06 AM)LOL-y Rancher Wrote: [ -> ]I think both Valt and Aiga both have their strong points so it's hard to decide who's better.

Valt's skills do progress more naturally as it takes him quite a while to develop into a champion, losing to quite a lot of people at first before eventually getting better and even becoming the best. His character has also changed from being a complete goofy idiot who lacked the knowledge and fundamentals to being a pro.

However, Aiga's character is a bit more interesting. He's the first Beyblade protagonist to wield a Balance-Type bey so he doesn't just rely on attacking and instead, has to be more versatile with his skills. He's also the first protagonist to not be purely good, meaning he was corruptible and had the potential of becoming evil. His journey is about trying to stop him from going down the wrong path and grow as a character.

There's the complaint that Aiga is more unlikable than Valt and whilst that is true, Aiga does learn to grow out of his bratty behaviour and he does it more naturally. As I've said, Aiga isn't pure good like Valt so he's easily corrupted at first.

I agree. Valt had a better win rate progression, but Aiga had better character development. If those two things combined for one character, that would be great.

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:51 AM)JavariTheChamp Wrote: [ -> ]I’m with g2 on this one, I prefer valt as a character. And imo Aiga was a sissy until gt. He’s gotten good character development. Aiga is fine, but for me, not the level of valt and Tyson

I mean, Tysons character is almost inescapably looked at through the prism of nostalgia at this point, but honestly....he really doesn't have that many redeeming qualities outside of being good at beyblade. I'd argue that the most memorable quality Tyson has is that he's really a terrible person who gets away with a lot of stuff, but everyone excuses it cause he "gets the dubs". =p

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(Apr. 24, 2020  1:10 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  1:06 AM)LOL-y Rancher Wrote: [ -> ]I think both Valt and Aiga both have their strong points so it's hard to decide who's better.

Valt's skills do progress more naturally as it takes him quite a while to develop into a champion, losing to quite a lot of people at first before eventually getting better and even becoming the best. His character has also changed from being a complete goofy idiot who lacked the knowledge and fundamentals to being a pro.

However, Aiga's character is a bit more interesting. He's the first Beyblade protagonist to wield a Balance-Type bey so he doesn't just rely on attacking and instead, has to be more versatile with his skills. He's also the first protagonist to not be purely good, meaning he was corruptible and had the potential of becoming evil. His journey is about trying to stop him from going down the wrong path and grow as a character.

There's the complaint that Aiga is more unlikable than Valt and whilst that is true, Aiga does learn to grow out of his bratty behaviour and he does it more naturally. As I've said, Aiga isn't pure good like Valt so he's easily corrupted at first.

I agree. Valt had a better win rate progression, but Aiga had better character development. If those two things combined for one character, that would be great.

The thing about Valts wins vs Aigers is how they interact with their character. Valt needed to keep losing so he could learn to value why people valued victory over bonds so often, and then Valt came out ahead at the end of the series because he learned how to achieve a respect for both.

Aigers character hinged on him being a savant early on in the series, and then it tore him apart literally in Achilles case midway through because he felt inadequate compared to other great bladers and wanted Achilles respect, and because of this, he chose the shortest path to power a proclivity most Balance users face. Him working past it and learning to stop and look at what he already had allowed him to stay grounded and use his bonds to get him to the next stage.

I've actually though of Aigers story as kind of an Anakin Skywalker-esq tale, but instead of going full Vader, he finds a happy ending.

(Apr. 24, 2020  1:11 AM)GrepherDK Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:51 AM)JavariTheChamp Wrote: [ -> ]I’m with g2 on this one, I prefer valt as a character. And imo Aiga was a sissy until gt. He’s gotten good character development. Aiga is fine, but for me, not the level of valt and Tyson

I mean, Tysons character is almost inescapably looked at through the prism of nostalgia at this point, but honestly....he really doesn't have that many redeeming qualities outside of being good at beyblade. I'd argue that the most memorable quality Tyson has is that he's really a terrible person who gets away with a lot of stuff, but everyone excuses it cause he "gets the dubs". =p

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(Apr. 24, 2020  1:10 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ]I agree. Valt had a better win rate progression, but Aiga had better character development. If those two things combined for one character, that would be great.

The thing about Valts wins vs Aigers is how they interact with their character. Valt needed to keep losing so he could learn to value why people valued victory over bonds so often, and then Valt came out ahead at the end of the series because he learned how to achieve a respect for both.

Aigers character hinged on him being a savant early on in the series, and then it tore him apart literally in Achilles case midway through because he felt inadequate compared to other great bladers and wanted Achilles respect, and because of this, he chose the shortest path to power a proclivity most Balance users face. Him working past it and learning to stop and look at what he already had allowed him to stay grounded and use his bonds to get him to the next stage.

I've actually though of Aigers story as kind of an Anakin Skywalker-esq tale, but he finds a happy ending.

Yeah, the writing was pretty clever.

Also, Anakin Skywalker did find a happy ending lol

(Apr. 24, 2020  1:11 AM)GrepherDK Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:51 AM)JavariTheChamp Wrote: [ -> ]I’m with g2 on this one, I prefer valt as a character. And imo Aiga was a sissy until gt. He’s gotten good character development. Aiga is fine, but for me, not the level of valt and Tyson

I mean, Tysons character is almost inescapably looked at through the prism of nostalgia at this point, but honestly....he really doesn't have that many redeeming qualities outside of being good at beyblade. I'd argue that the most memorable quality Tyson has is that he's really a terrible person who gets away with a lot of stuff, but everyone excuses it cause he "gets the dubs". =p

Whilst I do like Tyson, I do agree with you to an extent. Personally, I did not enjoy his character in V-Force at all as I feel like it's the season where he's constantly reminded to stop being a bratty jerk, and he says he's "learned his lesson" but then he goes back to doing it anyway and it gets incredibly boring. Whilst I understand that characters aren't going to learn their lessons the first time, Tyson constantly going back to being a jerk when told not to many times just felt so repetitive.

At least when Aiga was a brat, it felt like he was actually getting progressively worse which was more natural than Tyson constantly resetting the lessons he learns. Aiga was going down the darker path every episode, until episode 37 when Z Achilles was finally destroyed and was a massive wake up call to Aiga that his behaviour and the path he's chosen was the wrong one and when Aiga realised this, it actually sticks and he changes as a character. Yeah, he was still a bit cocky but he's now more careful with his bey and is more humble towards everyone and in GT, he actually helps encourage Drum to never give up when Ace Dragon was destroyed.

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:51 AM)JavariTheChamp Wrote: [ -> ]I’m with g2 on this one, I prefer valt as a character. And imo Aiga was a sissy until gt. He’s gotten good character development. Aiga is fine, but for me, not the level of valt and Tyson

Thank you. You're awesome.

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(Apr. 24, 2020  12:23 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:21 AM)g2_ Wrote: [ -> ]Not in Cho-Z though, he sucked in every single Cho-Z Episode. He seemed much better in Gachi.

Your point is?

That Aiga sucked in Cho-Z.

(Apr. 24, 2020  1:21 AM)LOL-y Rancher Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  1:11 AM)GrepherDK Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, Tysons character is almost inescapably looked at through the prism of nostalgia at this point, but honestly....he really doesn't have that many redeeming qualities outside of being good at beyblade. I'd argue that the most memorable quality Tyson has is that he's really a terrible person who gets away with a lot of stuff, but everyone excuses it cause he "gets the dubs". =p

Whilst I do like Tyson, I do agree with you to an extent. Personally, I did not enjoy his character in V-Force at all as I feel like it's the season where he's constantly reminded to stop being a bratty jerk, and he says he's "learned his lesson" but then he goes back to doing it anyway and it gets incredibly boring. Whilst I understand that characters aren't going to learn their lessons the first time, Tyson constantly going back to being a jerk when told not to many times just felt so repetitive.

At least when Aiga was a brat, it felt like he was actually getting progressively worse which was more natural than Tyson constantly resetting the lessons he learns. Aiga was going down the darker path every episode, until episode 37 when Z Achilles was finally destroyed and was a massive wake up call to Aiga that his behaviour and the path he's chosen was the wrong one and when Aiga realised this, it actually sticks and he changes as a character. Yeah, he was still a bit cocky but he's now more careful with his bey and is more humble towards everyone and in GT, he actually helps encourage Drum to never give up when Ace Dragon was destroyed.

Yea, Tysons character through most of the show is just being awful to everyone around him, but they all seem almost drug addled to battle him and be his friend, so they put up with it. It's almost unsettling lol.

Strider talks about how Aiga's underrated, went from an arrogant prodigy to slowly gaining a passion and love for the game, making rivals and friends along the way until he was tempted and let the prospect of winning damage his bey, having his hubris shattered, and becoming the hero alongside his bey and accepting the support of those that were willing to help him overcome his issues clic-

Oh you guys like Aiga/find him over hated. Cool. Well I'm late......

Drum's underrated: first blader to actively use parts customization change, the smartest of the three protagonists in terms of bey engineering, his relationship with Dragon felt like partners growing and trusting each other, did his best to free to free two of his friends from the concept of only blading for power and self validation, and his brotherly bond with Amane pushed the two of them to get Victories to the top (Amane having the potential and skill, Drum being the passion and creativity). He faced down everyone who doubted him and showed a lot of humility and hubris for a protagonist that only started out in their first season.

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(Apr. 24, 2020  3:01 AM)GrepherDK Wrote: [ -> ][quote='LOL-y Rancher' pid='1589679' dateline='1587687706']

Yea, Tysons character through most of the show is just being awful to everyone around him, but they all seem almost drug addled to battle him and be his friend, so they put up with it. It's almost unsettling lol.

In V Force or G Revolution? I know I haven't seen too much V Force, but that sounds a lot like Tyson in the latter too.

(Apr. 24, 2020  3:58 AM)Strider Xanthos Wrote: [ -> ]Strider talks about how Aiga's underrated, went from an arrogant prodigy to slowly gaining a passion and love for the game, making rivals and friends along the way until he was tempted and let the prospect of winning damage his bey, having his hubris shattered, and becoming the hero alongside his bey and accepting the support of those that were willing to help him overcome his issues clic-

Oh you guys like Aiga/find him over hated. Cool. Well I'm late......

Drum's underrated: first blader to actively use parts customization change, the smartest of the three protagonists in terms of bey engineering, his relationship with Dragon felt like partners growing and trusting each other, did his best to free to free two of his friends from the concept of only blading for power and self validation, and his brotherly bond with Amane pushed the two of them to get Victories to the top (Amane having the potential and skill, Drum being the passion and creativity). He faced down everyone who doubted him and showed a lot of humility and hubris for a protagonist that only started out in their first season.

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(Apr. 24, 2020  3:01 AM)GrepherDK Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  1:21 AM)LOL-y Rancher Wrote: [ -> ]Yea, Tysons character through most of the show is just being awful to everyone around him, but they all seem almost drug addled to battle him and be his friend, so they put up with it. It's almost unsettling lol.

In V Force or G Revolution? I know I haven't seen too much V Force, but that sounds a lot like Tyson in the latter too.

I mean, a lot of what people dislike about Aiger I feel is just a misunderstanding of his character. They assume it stops at he's talented and beats top bladers quickly but fail to recognize what that cost him in the end to reach that level so quickly, and how he ultimately overcomes it by recognizing what he already had.

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(Apr. 24, 2020  3:58 AM)Strider Xanthos Wrote: [ -> ]Strider talks about how Aiga's underrated, went from an arrogant prodigy to slowly gaining a passion and love for the game, making rivals and friends along the way until he was tempted and let the prospect of winning damage his bey, having his hubris shattered, and becoming the hero alongside his bey and accepting the support of those that were willing to help him overcome his issues clic-

Oh you guys like Aiga/find him over hated. Cool. Well I'm late......

Drum's underrated: first blader to actively use parts customization change, the smartest of the three protagonists in terms of bey engineering, his relationship with Dragon felt like partners growing and trusting each other, did his best to free to free two of his friends from the concept of only blading for power and self validation, and his brotherly bond with Amane pushed the two of them to get Victories to the top (Amane having the potential and skill, Drum being the passion and creativity). He faced down everyone who doubted him and showed a lot of humility and hubris for a protagonist that only started out in their first season.

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(Apr. 24, 2020  3:01 AM)GrepherDK Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  1:21 AM)LOL-y Rancher Wrote: [ -> ]Yea, Tysons character through most of the show is just being awful to everyone around him, but they all seem almost drug addled to battle him and be his friend, so they put up with it. It's almost unsettling lol.

In V Force or G Revolution? I know I haven't seen too much V Force, but that sounds a lot like Tyson in the latter too.

I mean, there really isn't a season where Tyson isn't awful to his friends and loved ones. Even in OG Beyblade, he was borderline abusive to Kenny.

(Apr. 24, 2020  4:04 AM)GrepherDK Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  3:58 AM)Strider Xanthos Wrote: [ -> ]Strider talks about how Aiga's underrated, went from an arrogant prodigy to slowly gaining a passion and love for the game, making rivals and friends along the way until he was tempted and let the prospect of winning damage his bey, having his hubris shattered, and becoming the hero alongside his bey and accepting the support of those that were willing to help him overcome his issues clic-

Oh you guys like Aiga/find him over hated. Cool. Well I'm late......

Drum's underrated: first blader to actively use parts customization change, the smartest of the three protagonists in terms of bey engineering, his relationship with Dragon felt like partners growing and trusting each other, did his best to free to free two of his friends from the concept of only blading for power and self validation, and his brotherly bond with Amane pushed the two of them to get Victories to the top (Amane having the potential and skill, Drum being the passion and creativity). He faced down everyone who doubted him and showed a lot of humility and hubris for a protagonist that only started out in their first season.

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I mean, a lot of what people dislike about Aiger I feel is just a misunderstanding of his character. They assume it stops at he's talented and beats top bladers quickly but fail to recognize what that cost him in the end to reach that level so quickly, and how he ultimately overcomes it by recognizing what he already had.

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(Apr. 24, 2020  3:58 AM)Strider Xanthos Wrote: [ -> ]Strider talks about how Aiga's underrated, went from an arrogant prodigy to slowly gaining a passion and love for the game, making rivals and friends along the way until he was tempted and let the prospect of winning damage his bey, having his hubris shattered, and becoming the hero alongside his bey and accepting the support of those that were willing to help him overcome his issues clic-

Oh you guys like Aiga/find him over hated. Cool. Well I'm late......

Drum's underrated: first blader to actively use parts customization change, the smartest of the three protagonists in terms of bey engineering, his relationship with Dragon felt like partners growing and trusting each other, did his best to free to free two of his friends from the concept of only blading for power and self validation, and his brotherly bond with Amane pushed the two of them to get Victories to the top (Amane having the potential and skill, Drum being the passion and creativity). He faced down everyone who doubted him and showed a lot of humility and hubris for a protagonist that only started out in their first season.

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I mean, there really isn't a season where Tyson isn't awful to his friends and loved ones. Even in OG Beyblade, he was borderline abusive to Kenny.

True on the Tyson part, but thankfully I remember him improving at this as the season goes further.

As for Aiga, exactly. He's more of a deconstruction of what people expect that archetype to be.
And that's the weird thing about Aiga people tend to forget: he can be arrogant, but most of the time, he could be pretty nice: he got along well with Laban, Houi, and Xhan, was a pretty good big brother, Fubuki and Ranjiro grew to accept him, and half of the cast had legit reasons not to like him (so no Mary Sue arguments there). Plus, he raised those animals better than some people do with Pokemon lol. You can have a ego but still be a likable person, isn't that right Max?

(Apr. 24, 2020  3:58 AM)Strider Xanthos Wrote: [ -> ]In V Force or G Revolution? I know I haven't seen too much V Force, but that sounds a lot like Tyson in the latter too.

IMO, Tyson was much worse in V-Force just because he kept repeatedly having to relearn the same lessons he was taught such as not being toxic towards his friends but always ends up doing it again and was just generally more bratty and annoying. I was just so sick of him, every time he goes "You just don't get it, do you?!" and then runs off just to learn the same lessons that he'll just forget about again.

In G-Revolution, he does still act like a jerk and did act quite hostile towards his teammates, especially Daichi, but it never felt like he had to learn the same exact lessons five times in a single season, he was a bit more sympathetic and really felt like he grew and matured there. In the first half of G-Revolution, he was told to stop treating Daichi as an enemy when they screwed up their first tag team battle and once he learnt to not treat him badly, he never really did it again (besides a few banter and small arguments between them both). He had to learn to work with new people (aka Daichi), he eventually did without having to learn the same lesson like five times.

I know this is off topic from the mc discussion, but this is the sparking manga and anime thread. So I’m going to say, I hoped hyuga and Hikaru get relevant team members, because I want to see a team tournament just like how the Beigoma Academy did. Because the beigoma academy had fairly relevant bladers.

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:06 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ], I agree. Valt had very little character development, and Drum was Valt all over again, but worse. While Aiga went through character development, and corruption.

off topic I know, but character development? please, that barely qualifies.  Valt had MASSIVE character development, mainly in God. Aiga was just "I use dark power plot armor" "whoops thats bad" "in the span of 5 seconds after creating the new Achilles I will be on the level of  Legendary bladers that took 2 years to get to the level they are now, lol"

and I go more in depth on Aiga in my bladers analysis thread, technically advertising it but this is off topic anyway

(Apr. 27, 2020  9:44 PM)snoc Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 24, 2020  12:06 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ], I agree. Valt had very little character development, and Drum was Valt all over again, but worse. While Aiga went through character development, and corruption.

off topic I know, but character development? please, that barely qualifies.  Valt had MASSIVE character development, mainly in God. Aiga was just "I use dark power plot armor" "whoops thats bad" "in the span of 5 seconds after creating the new Achilles I will be on the level of  Legendary bladers that took 2 years to get to the level they are now, lol"

Valt didn’t change as a character, but more of he had a better win-loss rate. Aiga had good character development, and a Meh win-loss rate.