World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

Burst: 5/10
God: 10/10
Cho-Z: 9/10
GT: 4/10
Sparking: 0/10

(Feb. 27, 2021  7:03 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  6:34 PM)Jinbee Wrote: [ -> ]

Spoiler (Click to View)

Our expectations shouldn't have to become "at least it isn't this bad season". While Burst is a toyetic anime and is aimed for a slightly younger audience, we should expect some level of quality for it. If we have to set the bar much lower for the Burst seasons to enjoy it, then what does it really say about your opinions on the Burst seasons?

Personally, even while keeping the fact it's aiming a slightly younger demographic in mind, I put a similar level of expectation of Burst as I would for MFB or the original trilogy, at least those saga's on average.

As for Sparking, this won't necessarily be my final opinion as it does have a few episodes left, and the most important ones. With that being said, Sparking is an awful season so far. It's hard to say if it's the worst, but it's up there at least.

I think Chouzetsu, while not great either, was way better, because Aiga isn't a flat one dimensional piece of trash main character like Hyuga is, and actually develops from a total jerk to being one of the most humble characters in the show (more specifically in his appearances in GT & Sparking).

Let this be understood though, Burst S1 & 2 are my favorite seasons of Beyblade period. Even though this show is targeted towards kids, those seasons reveal that good storytelling can be had even when the material is aimed at a younger demographic. Both of them were truly stellar pieces of work. The best of Beyblade for me personally. With each season that comes out I look for quality material, especially after having seen what it can be when done well, and I'm not going to make excuses when they drop the ball. Ever since season 3 started, we've gotten mediocre season after mediocre season, and it's just sad what Burst has been reduced to. Turbo, and Surge, were awful and Rise was just ok.

And that's fine, and I agree. I think my expectations came from the fact that I did enjoy Seasons 1 & 2. While not my absolute favourites, they were good and I felt aged better the more I watched it. It's by no means flawless, but I felt it suffered a lot less issues as it was more simplistic.

I liked Season 1 for the simple premise and genuinely wholesome down to Earth moments. Characters actually went through little arcs and developments, and that was great.

Season 2 had similar ups as Season 1, a decent tournament arc, and also had better battles, because this season really introduced the faster paced and wacky battles. I never minded this, while it isn't that realistic, it's more of an exaggeration of existing elements by making things more intense, rather than introduce random new concepts like Flare or Resonance.

Chouzetsu isn't that great, although I did like Aiga for also having character development. However, I feel this season was also the one to set the trends I disliked and become the decline of the seasons, as much as it pains for me to say.

(Feb. 27, 2021  10:04 PM)Jinbee Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  7:03 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]Let this be understood though, Burst S1 & 2 are my favorite seasons of Beyblade period. Even though this show is targeted towards kids, those seasons reveal that good storytelling can be had even when the material is aimed at a younger demographic. Both of them were truly stellar pieces of work. The best of Beyblade for me personally. With each season that comes out I look for quality material, especially after having seen what it can be when done well, and I'm not going to make excuses when they drop the ball. Ever since season 3 started, we've gotten mediocre season after mediocre season, and it's just sad what Burst has been reduced to. Turbo, and Surge, were awful and Rise was just ok.

And that's fine, and I agree. I think my expectations came from the fact that I did enjoy Seasons 1 & 2. While not my absolute favourites, they were good and I felt aged better the more I watched it. It's by no means flawless, but I felt it suffered a lot less issues as it was more simplistic.

I liked Season 1 for the simple premise and genuinely wholesome down to Earth moments. Characters actually went through little arcs and developments, and that was great.

Season 2 had similar ups as Season 1, a decent tournament arc, and also had better battles, because this season really introduced the faster paced and wacky battles. I never minded this, while it isn't that realistic, it's more of an exaggeration of existing elements by making things more intense, rather than introduce random new concepts like Flare or Resonance.

Chouzetsu isn't that great, although I did like Aiga for also having character development. However, I feel this season was also the one to set the trends I disliked and become the decline of the seasons, as much as it pains for me to say.

Aiger having terrible development feels like unnecessary cookie points. They tried, they failed, why are we celebrating them failing.

(Feb. 27, 2021  10:11 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  10:04 PM)Jinbee Wrote: [ -> ]And that's fine, and I agree. I think my expectations came from the fact that I did enjoy Seasons 1 & 2. While not my absolute favourites, they were good and I felt aged better the more I watched it. It's by no means flawless, but I felt it suffered a lot less issues as it was more simplistic.

I liked Season 1 for the simple premise and genuinely wholesome down to Earth moments. Characters actually went through little arcs and developments, and that was great.

Season 2 had similar ups as Season 1, a decent tournament arc, and also had better battles, because this season really introduced the faster paced and wacky battles. I never minded this, while it isn't that realistic, it's more of an exaggeration of existing elements by making things more intense, rather than introduce random new concepts like Flare or Resonance.

Chouzetsu isn't that great, although I did like Aiga for also having character development. However, I feel this season was also the one to set the trends I disliked and become the decline of the seasons, as much as it pains for me to say.

They tried, they failed, why are we celebrating them failing.

people when hasbro does something not bad in a nutshell

(Feb. 27, 2021  10:11 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  10:04 PM)Jinbee Wrote: [ -> ]

Spoiler (Click to View)

And that's fine, and I agree. I think my expectations came from the fact that I did enjoy Seasons 1 & 2. While not my absolute favourites, they were good and I felt aged better the more I watched it. It's by no means flawless, but I felt it suffered a lot less issues as it was more simplistic.

I liked Season 1 for the simple premise and genuinely wholesome down to Earth moments. Characters actually went through little arcs and developments, and that was great.

Season 2 had similar ups as Season 1, a decent tournament arc, and also had better battles, because this season really introduced the faster paced and wacky battles. I never minded this, while it isn't that realistic, it's more of an exaggeration of existing elements by making things more intense, rather than introduce random new concepts like Flare or Resonance.

Chouzetsu isn't that great, although I did like Aiga for also having character development. However, I feel this season was also the one to set the trends I disliked and become the decline of the seasons, as much as it pains for me to say.

Spoiler (Click to View)

Aiger having terrible development feels like unnecessary cookie points. They tried, they failed, why are we celebrating them failing.

Aiga was meant to be portrayed as being bratty, cocky and only cared about winning and rubbing it into people's faces (sometimes), but that's a baseline for a character with actual character flaws to start with, and that's how you work your way up. My personal opinion is that Aiga was handled fine, since he actually does start breaking out of his horrible personality to become a nice person, as evidenced by the tail end of his season, along with the following seasons. Cocky bladers like Aiga do exist, and it's great to show the audience that it isn't right to get that elitist mindset in their heads. Nobody is celebrating "terrible development". Not everyone needs to be the same cookie cutter flat characters who stay the same for their entire relevancy. Valt, a fan favourite, changed from being a clumsy rookie to a very competent and seasoned master, also evidenced by how his personality has matured, but he still felt like Valt. I like Valt for that reason. Similar to Aiga, he had a good baseline to start and changed noticeably.

If the Season 6 rumours are true, and based off what we've heard, it seems like the new main here will have a baseline where they start off as less than great, but will probably become a lot nicer, like Aiga was. We'll just have to wait and see, but if we can have that, then that's great. We want a character who actually tries to develop. I'd rather see them try to develop them and fail, than having no real attempt at development at all.

(Feb. 27, 2021  10:04 PM)Jinbee Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  7:03 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]Let this be understood though, Burst S1 & 2 are my favorite seasons of Beyblade period. Even though this show is targeted towards kids, those seasons reveal that good storytelling can be had even when the material is aimed at a younger demographic. Both of them were truly stellar pieces of work. The best of Beyblade for me personally. With each season that comes out I look for quality material, especially after having seen what it can be when done well, and I'm not going to make excuses when they drop the ball. Ever since season 3 started, we've gotten mediocre season after mediocre season, and it's just sad what Burst has been reduced to. Turbo, and Surge, were awful and Rise was just ok.

And that's fine, and I agree. I think my expectations came from the fact that I did enjoy Seasons 1 & 2. While not my absolute favourites, they were good and I felt aged better the more I watched it. It's by no means flawless, but I felt it suffered a lot less issues as it was more simplistic.

I liked Season 1 for the simple premise and genuinely wholesome down to Earth moments. Characters actually went through little arcs and developments, and that was great.

Season 2 had similar ups as Season 1, a decent tournament arc, and also had better battles, because this season really introduced the faster paced and wacky battles. I never minded this, while it isn't that realistic, it's more of an exaggeration of existing elements by making things more intense, rather than introduce random new concepts like Flare or Resonance.

Chouzetsu isn't that great, although I did like Aiga for also having character development. However, I feel this season was also the one to set the trends I disliked and become the decline of the seasons, as much as it pains for me to say.

I was hoping the succeeding seasons would be good given how excellent S 1&2 were, and unfortunately I was horribly let down by how horrendous Turbo and the following seasons were. Everyone resonates with art differently so while S 1&2 are my absolute favorite seasons in the entire Beyblade franchise, I understand that they're not yours. Though I appreciate that you acknowledge they were good seasons. I loved the focus that made on growing their characters beyond just the main. They had definite growth through well paced character arcs. Characters like Silas and Daigo for example. Something that has been sadly missing from the following seasons.

I didn't read any of these posts but um Aiger is very poorly written you can like him if you want but that's just a straight fact.

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His character is inexcusable bro

What people don’t really acknowledge about Sparking is that it was bound to fail no matter what route they took. You would have either had legends dominating the newbies for most of the season which would just be overly biased poor writing in favour old characters that would look only look worse when Hyuga and Hikaru suddenly receive some random amp up at the end of the season (to beat Lane) despite seemingly getting annihilated without any development or gain throughout most of it or newbies dominating legends (the one we got), which is just a massive dump on the nostalgia-critical fanbase of burst. 

Actually creating a balanced plot between the legendary bladers and Hikaru and Hyuga all while giving the bros proper development would require a resourceful format which burst just doesn’t have anymore or in other words, it’s not an option. This is because we have to take into consideration the fact that the episodes are now half as long as they were before, the cast size has been substantially reduced and burst is now in a whole different studio. What’s worse is that each legend had to receive their own arc to please the varying fans which just narrowed the story down even more and really didn’t help utilize the time effectively.

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:04 PM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ]What people don’t really acknowledge about Sparking is that it was bound to fail no matter what route they took. You would have either had legends dominating the newbies for most of the seasons which would just be overly biased poor writing in favour old characters that would look only look worse when Hyuga and Hikaru suddenly receive some random amp up at the end of the season (to beat Lane) despite seemingly getting annihilated without any development or gain throughout most of it or newbies dominating legends (the one we got), which is just a massive
dump on the nostalgia-critical fanbase of burst.

Actually creating a balanced plot between the legendary bladers and Hikaru and Hyuga all while giving the bros proper development would require a resourceful format which burst just doesn’t have anymore or in other words, it’s not an option. This is because we have to take into consideration the fact that the episodes are now half as long as they were before, the cast size has been substantially reduced and burst is now in a whole different studio. What’s worse is that each legend had to receive their own arc to please the varying fans which just narrowed the story down even more and really didn’t help utilize the time effectively.

I mean yeah they sacrificed the story for fan service so it was never going to be good. Well, the manga was good but the anime just focused on that rather than making an actual story.

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:05 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:04 PM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ]What people don’t really acknowledge about Sparking is that it was bound to fail no matter what route they took. You would have either had legends dominating the newbies for most of the seasons which would just be overly biased poor writing in favour old characters that would look only look worse when Hyuga and Hikaru suddenly receive some random amp up at the end of the season (to beat Lane) despite seemingly getting annihilated without any development or gain throughout most of it or newbies dominating legends (the one we got), which is just a massive
dump on the nostalgia-critical fanbase of burst.

Actually creating a balanced plot between the legendary bladers and Hikaru and Hyuga all while giving the bros proper development would require a resourceful format which burst just doesn’t have anymore or in other words, it’s not an option. This is because we have to take into consideration the fact that the episodes are now half as long as they were before, the cast size has been substantially reduced and burst is now in a whole different studio. What’s worse is that each legend had to receive their own arc to please the varying fans which just narrowed the story down even more and really didn’t help utilize the time effectively.

I mean yeah they sacrificed the story for fan service so it was never going to be good. Well, the manga was good but the anime just focused on that rather than making an actual story.

The thing about manga is that it’s an almost different appeal seeing as the media is different. The concise things they do for manga just wouldn’t work for anime without 10x the filler and unnecessary intervals.

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:06 PM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:05 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote: [ -> ]I mean yeah they sacrificed the story for fan service so it was never going to be good. Well, the manga was good but the anime just focused on that rather than making an actual story.

The thing about manga is that it’s an almost different appeal seeing as the media is different. The concise things they do for manga just wouldn’t work for anime without 10x the filler and unnecessary intervals.

I mean not really, rather than padding out for time between each arc lots of them can just be extended.

Intro arc: can be extended (already decently long putting it in a 10 minute episode format anyways).

BC Sol arc: nah no extend without it feeling bad.

Lain arc: can be extended.

Limit Break/Aiger arc: no extend without it feeling bad.

Final/Lucius The End arc: already decently long on its own but yes can be extended.

---

Just for reference:

Intro arc: Valt vs Rantaro vs Ranjiro, Bros vs Rantaro Ranjiro, Hikaru vs Silas, Hyuga battle royales

BC Sol arc: Valt vs Free, Hyuga vs Valt

Lain arc: Lui vs Lain, Shu vs Lain, Hyuga vs Dante, Bros vs Lain

Limit Break/Aiger arc: Bros vs Aiger

Final/Lucius The End arc: Shu vs Lain, Hikaru vs Lain, Hyuga vs Lain

By the way Hyuga vs Dante was released during the Lain arc as a special chapter but it takes place during the Intro arc.

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:10 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:06 PM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ]The thing about manga is that it’s an almost different appeal seeing as the media is different. The concise things they do for manga just wouldn’t work for anime without 10x the filler and unnecessary intervals.

I mean not really, rather than padding out for time between each arc lots of them can just be extended.

Intro arc: can be extended (already decently long putting it in a 10 minute episode format anyways).

BC Sol arc: nah no extend without it feeling bad.

Lain arc: can be extended.

Limit Break/Aiger arc: no extend without it feeling bad.

Final/Lucius The End arc: already decently long on its own but yes can be extended.

---

Just for reference:

Intro arc: Valt vs Rantaro vs Ranjiro, Bros vs Rantaro Ranjiro, Hikaru vs Silas, Hyuga battle royales

BC Sol arc: Valt vs Free, Hyuga vs Valt

Lain arc: Lui vs Lain, Shu vs Lain, Hyuga vs Dante, Bros vs Lain

Limit Break/Aiger arc: Bros vs Aiger

Final/Lucius The End arc: Shu vs Lain, Hikaru vs Lain, Hyuga vs Lain

By the way Hyuga vs Dante was released during the Lain arc as a special chapter but it takes place during the Intro arc.

But that then puts a lot of things out of the picture since the manga is concise. We have to remember that the anime has the large advertisements that effectively require time.

BC Sol also has Hikaru vs Delta and Limit Break arc has Silas vs Valt vs Rantaro vs Free vs Hikaru vs Hyuga.

My epic idea B)

Month 1: April
Episode 1: Hikaur and Hyuga are introduced to the world of Beyblade and decide to make their own beys.
Episode 2: The 2 brothers encounter the legendary Rantaro Kiyama but he's not easy to defeat.
Episode 3: Rantaro's brother Ranjiro comes into the scene and the encounter evolves into a 2 vs 2 battle.
Episode 4: Wakiya, chairman of the WBBA, introduces the ranking system. He lets people go ahead and get started ranking up but Hyuga's not doing too well.

Month: May
Episode 5: The Hizashi's take a trip to Spain and Hikaru and Hyuga decide to go check out BC Sol, only to see Valt Aoi and Free De La Hoya duking it out.
Episode 6: Hyuga is itching to fight Valt since he's training with him but the only problem is that he's not strong enough. However Hyuga trains his hardest to have a battle.
Episode 7: Hikaru doesn't want to be left in the dust so he trains to create a new move. With a match vs Delta Akane that move might come to life.
Episode 8: filler

Month: June
Episode 9: The Legends have a big meeting and the bros are invited. Lui Shirosagi pisses of Hyuga so he tries to battle Lui but he's much stronger than anticipated.
Episode 10: After learning about Lain Valhalla Lui decides to face off against him, however he has a different bey than what was previously known.
Episode 12: filler
Episode 13: Hikaru and Hyuga train under Valt and Rantaro's wing in order to get ready for their match up against Lain.

(Feb. 27, 2021  8:54 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  8:47 PM)Achilles25 Wrote: [ -> ]season 1 is the worst season honestly

Season 1&2 are the best seasons. Main and side characters grew and changed through character arcs. Each of the arcs in both seasons were integral and flowed naturally one into the next. We had a main character who acutally had to work at achieving his goals, instead of winning vis Deus Ex Machina foolishness. And the setbacks he suffered made his wins all the more enjoyable. Season 1 was fantastic. Both that and Evolution are the best burst seasons by far.

okay evolution was my favorite but season 1 was garbage in my opinion.

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:41 PM)Achilles25 Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  8:54 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]Season 1&2 are the best seasons. Main and side characters grew and changed through character arcs. Each of the arcs in both seasons were integral and flowed naturally one into the next. We had a main character who acutally had to work at achieving his goals, instead of winning vis Deus Ex Machina foolishness. And the setbacks he suffered made his wins all the more enjoyable. Season 1 was fantastic. Both that and Evolution are the best burst seasons by far.

okay evolution was my favorite but season 1 was garbage in my opinion.

Evolution and Season 1 were both fantastic. What exactly are your criticisms of season 1? You entitled to your opinion, but both of those seasons were very well written.

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:58 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:41 PM)Achilles25 Wrote: [ -> ]okay evolution was my favorite but season 1 was garbage in my opinion.

Evolution and Season 1 were both fantastic. What exactly are your criticisms of season 1? You entitled to your opinion, but both of those seasons were very well written.

Season 1 pretty boring compared to other stuff tbh. Like Turbo had Dread Tower which was cool in concept, Evolution had the big boy tournament, GT had Battle Island and Inferno, and we got the Legends Festival in Surge.

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:26 AM)Eclipse Force Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:58 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]Evolution and Season 1 were both fantastic. What exactly are your criticisms of season 1? You entitled to your opinion, but both of those seasons were very well written.

Season 1 pretty boring compared to other stuff tbh. Like Turbo had Dread Tower which was cool in concept, Evolution had the big boy tournament, GT had Battle Island and Inferno, and we got the Legends Festival in Surge.

Certainly a matter of perspective as far as it being boring. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Very well written season.

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:33 AM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:26 AM)Eclipse Force Wrote: [ -> ]Season 1 pretty boring compared to other stuff tbh. Like Turbo had Dread Tower which was cool in concept, Evolution had the big boy tournament, GT had Battle Island and Inferno, and we got the Legends Festival in Surge.

Certainly a matter of perspective as far as it being boring. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Very well written season.

It's not as much boring but more just simple.

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:35 AM)Eclipse Force Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:33 AM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]Certainly a matter of perspective as far as it being boring. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Very well written season.

It's not as much boring but more just simple.

Some of the best stories are the simplest.

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:58 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:41 PM)Achilles25 Wrote: [ -> ]okay evolution was my favorite but season 1 was garbage in my opinion.

Evolution and Season 1 were both fantastic. What exactly are your criticisms of season 1? You entitled to your opinion, but both of those seasons were very well written.

ok the reasons for season 1 are that. it just didn't build up high expectations. and the last battles were not merely entertaining for me than it is for you. and i'll speak for everyone and say either rise is better or it's tied with season 1. remember it's my opinion don't cry.

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:37 AM)Achilles25 Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:58 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]Evolution and Season 1 were both fantastic. What exactly are your criticisms of season 1? You entitled to your opinion, but both of those seasons were very well written.

ok the reasons for season 1 are that. it just didn't build up high expectations. and the last battles were not merely entertaining for me than it is for you. and i'll speak for everyone and say either rise is better or it's tied with season 1. remember it's my opinion don't cry.

No one is crying I assure you. I was asking for your reasoning. Seems to me you just didn't vibe with it which is fine. One of the things I love about S1 is how they built upon things in such a way that it always left me looking forward to the next episode which they paid off in wonderful ways. Which is the feeling of most of the fanbase but to each their own in the end.

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:37 AM)Achilles25 Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 27, 2021  11:58 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]Evolution and Season 1 were both fantastic. What exactly are your criticisms of season 1? You entitled to your opinion, but both of those seasons were very well written.

ok the reasons for season 1 are that. it just didn't build up high expectations. and the last battles were not merely entertaining for me than it is for you. and i'll speak for everyone and say either rise is better or it's tied with season 1. remember it's my opinion don't cry.

I mean, you have the right to your own opinion but I wouldn’t speak for everyone since not everyone feels that way, favourited seasons are quite controversial. For example I think s1 is better than Rise IMO.

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:41 AM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:37 AM)Achilles25 Wrote: [ -> ]ok the reasons for season 1 are that. it just didn't build up high expectations. and the last battles were not merely entertaining for me than it is for you. and i'll speak for everyone and say either rise is better or it's tied with season 1. remember it's my opinion don't cry.

No one is crying I assure you. I was asking for your reasoning. Seems to me you just didn't vibe with it which is fine. One of the things I love about S1 is how they built upon things which left me wanting more leading up to them paying off the expectations they set up which they paid off in wonderful ways.

ight i agree with you. you like season 1 better than turbo. and i like turbo better than season 1. but there's one thing we both agree on. evolution is the best season.

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:44 AM)Achilles25 Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:41 AM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]No one is crying I assure you. I was asking for your reasoning. Seems to me you just didn't vibe with it which is fine. One of the things I love about S1 is how they built upon things which left me wanting more leading up to them paying off the expectations they set up which they paid off in wonderful ways.

ight i agree with you. you like season 1 better than turbo. and i like turbo better than season 1. but there's one thing we both agree on. evolution is the best season.

Evolution and Burst S1 are about level for me. It's always hard for me to choose between the two. I usually rank Evolution first just because it was the culmination of everything Valt had worked for. Such a great way to wrap his main story. It's really one story when you look at it. Both are fantastic.

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:47 AM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 28, 2021  12:44 AM)Achilles25 Wrote: [ -> ]ight i agree with you. you like season 1 better than turbo. and i like turbo better than season 1. but there's one thing we both agree on. evolution is the best season.

Evolution and Burst S1 are about level for me. It's always hard for me to choose between the two. I usually rank Evolution first just because it was culmination of everything Valt had worked for. It's really one story when you look at it. Both are fantastic.

yea but turbo is cool. not that fond of rise tho