I should've made it clear originally, but your second point is what I was really trying to draw attention to. If even I could pull numbers as high as some of those with the alleged worst version of F230, and on cardboard no less, then you can just imagine what somebody with a good orange Takara Tomy F230 should be able to do.

At the same time, the vast majority of Hasbro F230's are pretty bad. Even when I cleaned my Orange and Red ones, they both constantly lost to Duo and even Phantom Stamina.

Speaking of that, I got the Hasbro's Orange, on Dragoon F230 CF it lost to Phantom Orion, about 95% of my informal matches.

I can confirm what Leone19 said. Hasbro's orange F230 Track isn't as effective as a TT one (which puts it back behind the point where it actually becomes a threat, as Duo SAA165EWD/B : D can out spin it pretty consistently).

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

That will make it less likely to ban. I think we shouldn't ban it at this point at least due to the decreasing of Zero G tournaments this year. If we were the only proper format would be Zero G and we also have to take in the factor that it's hard to find a good F230 for most people.

That will make it less likely to ban. I think we shouldn't ban it at this point at least due to the decreasing of Zero G tournaments this year. If we were the only proper format would be Zero G and we also have to take in the factor that it's hard to find a good F230 for most people.

Like Kei said, money/availability shouldn't be a factor.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

That will make it less likely to ban. I think we shouldn't ban it at this point at least due to the decreasing of Zero G tournaments this year. If we were the only proper format would be Zero G and we also have to take in the factor that it's hard to find a good F230 for most people.

Like Kei said, money/availability shouldn't be a factor.

It's just that only a specific version of the piece (which does happen to be the most expensive and rare) actually is being the problem, rather than the other versions of it.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

It's not hard to obtain at all, just expensive. Like whats been stated already so many times, that won't affect anything. A mass produced toy that was released just this past like year or two defintely isn't hard to get.

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still posi

That will make it less likely to ban. I think we shouldn't ban it at this point at least due to the decreasing of Zero G tournaments this year. If we were the only proper format would be Zero G and we also have to take in the factor that it's hard to find a good F230 for most people.

Like Kei said, money/availability shouldn't be a factor.

It's just that only a specific version of the piece (which does happen to be the most expensive and rare) actually is being the problem, rather than the other versions of it.

So the goal is to find a solution without taking money/availability into this?

It's not hard to obtain at all, just expensive. Like whats been stated already so many times, that won't affect anything. A mass produced toy that was released just this past like year or two defintely isn't hard to get.

The expense can make it harder for people to get (not sure how many are willing to pay $50+ for that), not to mention the most common way is through Random Boosters.

But, I wasn't trying to say its a big affect, I was simply stating that it really is the only one version of it that is causing concern.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

That just makes it less likely to get banned. I think we should be specifying molds if we ban it, so how is it a problem if we just ban the Orange version?

Some brown Takara Tomy molds pose as much a problem as orange, not to mention thst there's a Hasbro orange & no way of differentiating between a Takara Tomy orange F230 & a really good Hasbro F230.

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Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

Some brown Takara Tomy molds pose as much a problem as orange, not to mention thst there's a Hasbro orange & no way of differentiating between a Takara Tomy orange F230 & a really good Hasbro F230.

So it's ultimately determined by luck to see if you get a good F230 or not. Therefore we should ban all then?

Some brown Takara Tomy molds pose as much a problem as orange, not to mention thst there's a Hasbro orange & no way of differentiating between a Takara Tomy orange F230 & a really good Hasbro F230.

So it's ultimately determined by luck to see if you get a good F230 or not. Therefore we should ban all then?

Yeah, plus it would be a big hassle determining which are usful and which aren't, at tournaments.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

I should've made it clear originally, but your second point is what I was really trying to draw attention to. If even I could pull numbers as high as some of those with the alleged worst version of F230, and on cardboard no less, then you can just imagine what somebody with a good orange Takara Tomy F230 should be able to do.

At the same time, the vast majority of Hasbro F230's are pretty bad. Even when I cleaned my Orange and Red ones, they both constantly lost to Duo and even Phantom Stamina.

Speaking of that, I got the Hasbro's Orange, on Dragoon F230 CF it lost to Phantom Orion, about 95% of my informal matches.

I can confirm what Leone19 said. Hasbro's orange F230 Track isn't as effective as a TT one (which puts it back behind the point where it actually becomes a threat, as Duo SAA165EWD/B : D can out spin it pretty consistently).

True, Hasbro F230s are usually far less effective against opposite spin Stamina. However, Kei made no requests for Left-Spin F230CF/GCF against Right-Spin Stamina on the other page, so I did none (and it's not like we would've learned anything new, lol).

I not gonna do anymore Synchrome tests for now because my Beylauncher's gears are beginning to skip a lot when I launch Synchromes, but here are a few Right-Spin comparisons between my red F230 from before and my other Hasbro F230s for thoroughness' sake.


Equipment:
BBG-03 Zero-G Stadium Attack Type
Beylauncher + Launcher Rubber

Conditions:
Cardboard playing surface
Duo in Stamina Mode
SA165 in Normal Mode

Hasbro F230s (Click to View)

[Image: EAXit4g.jpg]

All Beys launched straight

Genbu Genbu F230[1]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 20/30 (1 OS, 19 KO)
DG: 10/30 (8 OS, 2 KO)
Ties: 1
F230[1]GCF Win Rate: 66.7%


Genbu Genbu F230[1]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 10/30 (10 KO)
DG: 20/30 (14 OS, 6 KO)
Ties: 1
F230[1]GCF Win Rate: 33.3%

Genbu Genbu F230[2]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 17/30 (17 KO)
DG: 13/30 (10 OS, 3 KO)
Ties: 1
F230[2]GCF Win Rate: 56.7%


Genbu Genbu F230[2]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 14/30 (14 KO)
DG: 16/30 (12 OS, 4 KO)
Ties: 1
F230[2]GCF Win Rate: 46.7%



Genbu Genbu F230[3]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 22/30 (22 KO)
DG: 8/30 (6 OS, 2 KO)
Ties: 1
F230[3]GCF Win Rate: 73.3%


Genbu Genbu F230[3]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 11/30 (11 KO)
DG: 19/30 (18 OS, 1 KO)
Ties: 0
F230[3]GCF Win Rate: 36.7%



Genbu Genbu F230[4]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 18/30 (1 OS, 17 KO)
DG: 12/30 (7 OS, 5 KO)
Ties: 0
F230[4]GCF Win Rate: 60.0%


Genbu Genbu F230[4]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 9/30 (9 KO)
DG: 21/30 (14 OS, 7 KO)
Ties: 0
F230[4]GCF Win Rate: 30.0%

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

It still seems to me that luck determines which Habsros are good, but Takara Orange still seems to be the best.

Sorry I I sous rude here but just going throught the posts today ... Can we avoid the points that have been repeated forever and ever ("lets only ban orange," "it's 2 expensive for me and others," "it's a rare bey").

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(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

Wait, hold up, I know this was mentioned a million times before as well, but why don't we just ban F230 with CF or GCF, it's not like it's amazing with anything else, so banning that would be better. It would be fair for both sides of the argument, because whoever wants it banned, mostly want it banned because of the F230CF/GCF setup, so just banning the use of those parts together would be better. Also, for those who don't want F230 banned get that satisfaction of it not being banned, yet only that specific set up is banned.

Anyone else agree?

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Wait, hold up, I know this was mentioned a million times before as well, but why don't we just ban F230 with CF or GCF, it's not like it's amazing with anything else, so banning that would be better. It would be fair for both sides of the argument, because whoever wants it banned, mostly want it banned because of the F230CF/GCF setup, so just banning the use of those parts together would be better. Also, for those who don't want F230 banned get that satisfaction of it not being banned, yet only that specific set up is banned.

Anyone else agree?

I agree with that since F230 completely loses it's LAD with out a Circle Flat tip to keep it standing, but why not just ban it with Dragooon since that's the only useful combo with F230CF/GCF in Zero-G.

Wait, hold up, I know this was mentioned a million times before as well, but why don't we just ban F230 with CF or GCF, it's not like it's amazing with anything else, so banning that would be better. It would be fair for both sides of the argument, because whoever wants it banned, mostly want it banned because of the F230CF/GCF setup, so just banning the use of those parts together would be better. Also, for those who don't want F230 banned get that satisfaction of it not being banned, yet only that specific set up is banned.

Anyone else agree?

I agree with that since F230 completely loses it's LAD with out a Circle Flat tip to keep it standing, but why not just ban it with Dragooon since that's the only useful combo with F230CF/GCF in Zero-G.

Don't forget Genbull Genbull and Duo, those are very much still top tier and are still very effective. Banning it with Dragooon wouldn't really make that much of a difference since everyone would still use Duo or Genbull.

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Wait, hold up, I know this was mentioned a million times before as well, but why don't we just ban F230 with CF or GCF, it's not like it's amazing with anything else, so banning that would be better. It would be fair for both sides of the argument, because whoever wants it banned, mostly want it banned because of the F230CF/GCF setup, so just banning the use of those parts together would be better. Also, for those who don't want F230 banned get that satisfaction of it not being banned, yet only that specific set up is banned.

Anyone else agree?

Honestly, I think this would be the best for everyone. It's not like Libra, Basalt, or Gravity which can be used for any number of things, this can only be used on an F230CF/GCF setup. Granted, it's probably a bit more complicated for tournaments, but not by much.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Just browsing and figured I'd post this. Please don't attack it- I know this is "repeating" a point, but I would like to point out that I was told how easy it was to master the F230 launch (and my "8 year old brother could do it in 2 minutes"), yet I also saw this:

I really do not want to offend any of the players from Toronto, as I respect them for their advancements to the game and their exceptional competitive prowess, but the fact here seems to be that they are simply not launching Dragooon F230CF/GCF correctly.

I don't understand how Toronto players (some of the highest ranked in the world) aren't able to launch it correctly, if it truly is so simple.

Again, not trying to "repeat" that, just wanted to point that out.



Anyways, if it were to be banned on certain setups, I wouldn't see why it should be on things like Genbull or Duo- they're good, but easier to defeat.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Just browsing and figured I'd post this. Please don't attack it- I know this is "repeating" a point, but I would like to point out that I was told how easy it was to master the F230 launch (and my "8 year old brother could do it in 2 minutes"), yet I also saw this:

I really do not want to offend any of the players from Toronto, as I respect them for their advancements to the game and their exceptional competitive prowess, but the fact here seems to be that they are simply not launching Dragooon F230CF/GCF correctly.

I don't understand how Toronto players (some of the highest ranked in the world) aren't able to launch it correctly, if it truly is so simple.

Again, not trying to "repeat" that, just wanted to point that out.

Wait, who said it was easy to launch? There's actually several different ways to launch it against opponents, weak launch, aggresive launch, bank(Insanely hard in Zero-G IMO), stall launch. That's all I can think of, and there's probably more.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

None of those are hard to do. Even banking, it's just tilting your launcher to the slope of the stadium.

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(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

None of those are hard to do. Even banking, it's just tilting your launcher to the slope of the stadium.

I suppose, but it's still difficult to determine when to use them, at least for me anyways.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Gattiyaki is hard to pull off.

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[font="Proxima Nova Regular", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/font]

Wait, hold up, I know this was mentioned a million times before as well, but why don't we just ban F230 with CF or GCF, it's not like it's amazing with anything else, so banning that would be better. It would be fair for both sides of the argument, because whoever wants it banned, mostly want it banned because of the F230CF/GCF setup, so just banning the use of those parts together would be better. Also, for those who don't want F230 banned get that satisfaction of it not being banned, yet only that specific set up is banned.

Anyone else agree?

I agree with that since F230 completely loses it's LAD with out a Circle Flat tip to keep it standing, but why not just ban it with Dragooon since that's the only useful combo with F230CF/GCF in Zero-G.

Don't forget Genbull Genbull and Duo, those are very much still top tier and are still very effective. Banning it with Dragooon wouldn't really make that much of a difference since everyone would still use Duo or Genbull.

Duo F230 isn't as powerful in Zero-G as in standard IMO, but Genbull Genbull has it's uses.

Duo is much better in Standard from my understanding. Also Neo, Gattyaki is hard with any bey to perfect.

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things