(Jun. 25, 2011 12:36 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]Sup. Got something interesting for ya:
Hell Kerbecs BD145CS vs Hell Kerbecs BD145WD
Standard Conditions: BB10 Attack Stadium, WD launched first R1, alternate launches. Identical moldwise for hell and BD145, both are A1 (Wheel)/A4 (BD) and identical with holes/reinforcements, Kerbecs’s are identical, facebolts identical (down to the horuseus sticker and set). WD mint, CS plastic rounded, slightly aggressive (moves a little, not quickly). All combo’s launched as straight as possible.
Tips switched after 10 rounds, because I really want this to be accurate.
Beylauncher LR used (right spin). No grip as I launch steadier without one.
Obviously, both are in Boost Mode, and launched at 100%, dead straight.
1. CS KO
2. CS KO
3. CS KO
4. WD KO
5. WD KO
6. CS KO
7. CSKO
8. WD KO
9. CS KO
10. CS KO
11. CS KO
12. CS OS
13. WD KO
14. WD OS
15. CS KO
16. CS KO
17. CS KO
18. WD KO
19. CS KO
20. WD KO
Win Rates
CS: 13/20 (12KO, 1OS) = 65%
WD: 7/20 (6KO, 1OS) = 35%
The longer the battle went on, the more likely CS was to KO
CS seemed to destabilise it’s WD counterpart, (on whichever bey it was on), so yeah, it can OS WD (though WD managed a narrow OS at R14).
CS is taller, and that seems advantageous here.
There were a lot of wall saves. I think the results are representative, though, to be honest.
What do I think this means? Well, given we already know Hell Kerbecs BD145CS beats other stamina combo’s by OS or KO, and does passably against attack, as a bonus: In my opinion, CS should be at least listed as an option for Hell Kerbecs on our top tier list.
Frankly, I think Hell BD145 should also be a defence option (or, give us a balance list, for (MF) Hell Kerbecs BD145CS, MF-H Hell Kerbecs 230CS and MF-H Basalt Bull/Kerbecs/Aquario 230CS). It does better than earth defensively, if I recall from the testing.
Further testing can be found around the forum, I’d suggest you look around, as I don't have time to baby anyone 
WHAT!!?? Great results! I kinda didn't expect this, but yes, I did see potential in CS...
By the way, just tried MF-H Basalt Aquario TH170CS vs MF-H Basalt Aquario 230CS. Basically, TH170 is usually a safe bet, but sometimes it gets caught under a wobbling 230, which risk OS (though CS normally stabilises you enough). 195 is hall enough to hit the opposing basalt wheel in the right spot to keep it off-balance, and can't get caught under a wobbling opponent. That's the best approximation I can give, I'd suggest using 195 against 220 would be the best option, though 170 may be safer due to the 1mil difference, I'd not risk it until it has properly been tested.
That said, if you're in a mirror match, you should both opt for 170, I think, for safety (on the off chance they choose 195, you should be safe, and 220 is only a minor risk).
Yeah, I'm using a similar combo right now and didn't exactly want to share this, so count yerselves lucky.
: Do remember Earth is still top tier, though
(Jun. 25, 2011 12:55 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]By the way, just tried MF-H Basalt Aquario TH170CS vs MF-H Basalt Aquario 230CS. Basically, TH170 is usually a safe bet, but sometimes it gets caught under a wobbling 230, which risk OS (though CS normally stabilises you enough). 195 is hall enough to hit the opposing basalt wheel in the right spot to keep it off-balance, and can't get caught under a wobbling opponent. That's the best approximation I can give, I'd suggest using 195 against 220 would be the best option, though 170 may be safer due to the 1mil difference, I'd not risk it until it has properly been tested.
That said, if you're in a mirror match, you should both opt for 170, I think, for safety (on the off chance they choose 195, you should be safe, and 220 is only a minor risk).
Yeah, I'm using a similar combo right now and didn't exactly want to share this, so count yerselves lucky.
Well, I think this was really required after the LONGGGG conversation about TH170 on the previous pages.....
btw, 220 and 230 would be no different.... Just a mm difference wouldn't do much.... I agree with you. 195 or 170 is better..
IMO, 230 is VERY easy to beat. I dont find it as scary anymore. IMO BD145 and Gb145 are better than 230. 230 Weakness is a left spinning bey. Most likely, L drago, LLD, LDD, and Gravity Persues. 230=Ez Win.
Oh right , well i find hell to be more balance as it KO's and OS while i don't think i have ever seen earth KO , that being said IMO earth should be taken off the defense list as it gets thrown around by anything these days.
and about MF-H Basalt Aquario TH170CS i think it has to be one of the best combos out , i did mention it before with RS , but CS seems to do better then it against left spin which is good. I would also like to point out that L Drago Destroy on BD145 works really well
1mm will make a difference like 90 and 100.
(Jun. 25, 2011 1:00 PM)® Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, 230 is VERY easy to beat. I dont find it as scary anymore. IMO BD145 and Gb145 are better than 230. 230 Weakness is a left spinning bey. Most likely, L drago, LLD, LDD, and Gravity Persues. 230=Ez Win.
True enough, but yes, it does cause problems at times... Actually, when paired with Basalt, its still quite dangerous, you know... Its all because of those amazing new(not really 'new') combos, LLD BD145LRF, MLD CH120XF, etc, which make it easy to beat.. Just everyone knows this for AGES, that left spin attack is the BIGGEST weakness for right spin defense...
- Yes, I know! But, 90 vs 100 doesn't make much difference IMO... At the same time, a 85 track vs CH120 would make a difference. Its just my opinion, not saying you are wrong.
(Jun. 25, 2011 1:19 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]: 90 gets a solid winrate vs 100 IIRC, but yeah.
Honestly, I know it's 1mm difference, but in this case it's not the hugest thing ever,
[quote='®' pid='693437' dateline='1309003218']
Ah, just what I meant to say... Dumb of me to use 85 and 90 as examples...
Well, I did say that 230 is still amazing when paired with Basalt, but, is it the best? Just asking
I prefer BD145, it's harder to beat with MF LLD BD145LRF and such. It doesn't usually beat it's 230 counterpart 1v1, but it's the best defensive bey right now IMO. TH170 may be better, haven't had a chance to try it. Got other things on my plate, see.
By the way, went back to GB145 with Beat. 90 isn't as good vs BD145 IMO, but yeah, better than the testing would have you believe.
i think i know why beyblading isnt so popular in some countries.
if every battle ends up with destroyed buildings ( cue the anime's ), i can understand the reasoning behind it
(Jun. 25, 2011 1:19 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ] True dat.
: 90 gets a solid winrate vs 100 IIRC, but yeah.
Honestly, I know it's 1mm difference, but in this case it's not the hugest thing ever, and that's the best I can do for you guys unless someone at my tourney has a TH170 (in which case I'll pressure them into testing once they're done beating me 
)
(Jun. 25, 2011 1:00 PM)® Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, 230 is VERY easy to beat. I dont find it as scary anymore. IMO BD145 and Gb145 are better than 230. 230 Weakness is a left spinning bey. Most likely, L drago, LLD, LDD, and Gravity Persues. 230=Ez Win.
Disagree. Have you played with MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Aquario/Bull 230CS lately? It's still a tower of pain for most attackers, even at 145 and in left spin, it causes problems for many, for example, the old staple, MF LLD CH120RF doesn't do very well against it.
Also, you forgot meteo, it's actually more viable than a lot of wheels as the rubber lets it grip 230 properly to deliver hits. Pretty sure Pre-HWS is too light to take basalt, but I forget.
Also, TH170 is like the nightmare of 230 all over again, times three. It's got three incredibly useful heights. Honestly, it's AMAZING.
Yes I have. Basalt and 230 combos arent scary anymore. Just slap on a 145 height track on a left spinning bey. Also, there IS a certain launch to beat Basalt230 combos. Trust me. Try launching MF/ MF-L LLDGb145R2F with out grip. It works alot better. With grip, its hard, without, EZ WIN.
What do you mean, grip?
BTW, MF LLD CH145RF loses to it as I said.
By the way, guys. MF Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS is great and all, but seems to fail miserably against ol' MF MLD CH120XF. Not to say I won't still be using it hugely at my tourney, but yeah, that's a shame, as it seems to do far better against MF LLD BD145LRF than 230, but yeah, still failing against MF MLD CH120XF.
(Jun. 25, 2011 3:16 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]What do you mean, grip?
BTW, MF LLD CH145RF loses to it as I said.
By the way, guys. MF Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS is great and all, but seems to fail miserably against ol' MF MLD CH120XF. Not to say I won't still be using it hugely at my tourney, but yeah, that's a shame, as it seems to do far better against MF LLD BD145LRF than 230, but yeah, still failing against MF MLD CH120XF.
MF MLD CH120 XF can easily outspin CS... try TH220 might work
Aw... This is bad.. Well, hope you manage to find a way out before your tourney..
@ Rotation- Too bad. I really don't see any reason for further argument. 230 is, and will remain a dangerous track for quite a long time.
(Jun. 25, 2011 3:16 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]What do you mean, grip?
BTW, MF LLD CH145RF loses to it as I said.
By the way, guys. MF Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS is great and all, but seems to fail miserably against ol' MF MLD CH120XF. Not to say I won't still be using it hugely at my tourney, but yeah, that's a shame, as it seems to do far better against MF LLD BD145LRF than 230, but yeah, still failing against MF MLD CH120XF.
Ohh my bad, lol. I meant the HASBRO R2F grip. It makes a hug difference and HOW I grip. I launch it without grip holder. Its more easier that way imo.
I don't use a grip at all, or at least, only when I feel it's giving me a better launch. normally it's just a LR launcher.
: Considering MF MLD CH120XF was made to beat that same combo at 230, I doubt it If you get lucky you can KO it with a rough launch, but yeah, MLD is generally the winner.
(Jun. 25, 2011 3:55 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]I don't use a grip at all, or at least, only when I feel it's giving me a better launch. normally it's just a LR launcher.
Really? I find it much more comfortable to use a grip. But my problem with the grip, it's kinda hard to decide if it feels better with, or without, the rubber.
I don't have rubber, never bothered to buy it. It's nice and all, but not as great for deception as an unattached LR launcher, especially if you're using Gravity Perseus. But meh, I have long fingers, so it's uncomfortable with either, but yeah. I do like grips, but normally the LR is more convenient, and it's larger size makes it easier to use without a grip. Meh.
As I said earlier, I also get a more stable launch without a grip. More control over the movement of the launcher, or restriction thereof.
Well, even I prefer to use a bey without grips... I think its because of Hasbro's unusually large launchers...
While using plastics(excluding HMS), I need grips, though...
Well, don't buy the TT 3 segment grip, because hasbro launchers won't fit into them
They seem specially designed to "just" not fit.
(Jun. 25, 2011 4:12 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]Well, don't buy the TT 3 segment grip, because hasbro launchers won't fit into them They seem specially designed to "just" not fit.
Yeah, I know... Well, if the grips came with the starter packs, only then would I care to buy them,if not, I'd save up instead, and get an amazing bey.
(Jun. 25, 2011 4:12 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]Well, don't buy the TT 3 segment grip, because hasbro launchers won't fit into them They seem specially designed to "just" not fit.
Hasbro's Beylaunchers fit in TT 3-segment grips. Just not Light launchers.
I use a grip, with a weight added into the handle, to even weight distribution, I also get more power out, when with a grip, and tend to be able to Gatayaki shot with a grip.
the only time i don't use a grip is when i use a left spin...
also SonoKong light launchers don't fit in TT 3 Segment Launcher.... well mines don't anyway..
I guess that's something, and the RUL fits on the handle, but it's still stupid.
Really? IDK if I have a sonokong light launcher or if all mine are TT or LL2's
I should have one from ray unicorno, I think, but eh.
Not sure if you're allowed to add weight. Though batteries might count as "intended use" as they're in the instructions of the grip extension thingo.