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MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion

Dec. 25, 2013  4:15 PM
 
I agree with Duo 230 TB being top tier. But everything else needs more testing. I can confirm the results on Duo 230 TB myself.
Dec. 25, 2013  6:01 PM
 
Did none of you read TBDs article on LAD vs. Precession? Jeez...
BWD really serves almost no purpose guys.
Also, Duo 230 TB is a death wish against almost anything not stamina
Dec. 25, 2013  6:17 PM
 
I love Duo 230TB (well, duh XD)!

@Dr.soda: ... What about Defense? LOL! All Stamina loses to Attack. IMO Duo 230 TB is super competitive, and a very nice custom overall.

As for Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF, I was actually excited about that when I saw LMAO use it in Canada.

However, I tried it against and again, and I actually had a hard time KOing some Stamina customs. RDF just has waaaaay too little Attack to be useful, and its pitiful Stamina means it only gest a few hits before it stops spinning. The ability to KO is noticeably diminished when you use RDF. Of course, it may work slightly better in a specific meta (I'm sure LMAO had a really good reason for subbing it), but IMO it's just not nearly as good overall.
Dec. 26, 2013  4:51 AM
 
East coast: Attack heavy lol.
And we've found ways around those combos here in VA XD #craftyascarp
Dec. 26, 2013  10:44 PM
 
maybes in Yellow
need to adds combos in green
Quote:Wyvang
MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang (GB145/W145/H145) (R2F/RF)
Dragooon
Wyvang Dragooon SA165 (Zero-G attack mode) (R2F/RF/LRF)

(MSF-M) Bahamida Dragooon BD145 R2F/LRF

Balro
Balro Balro (CH120/D125/T125/W145) (RF/R2F)

Ifrit

(MSF-H) Bahamida Ifrit SA165 (normal) RF/LRF/RF

Flash
MF-H Flash (Orion/Escolpio/Pisces/Beelzebub/Ionis) (GB145/H145/S130/CH120) (R2F/RF)
MF-H Flash (Orion/Escolpio/Pisces/Beelzebub/Ionis) W145MF


DEFENSE


Duo
MF-H Duo (Aquario/Cancer/Hades/Cygnus) BD145 (RDF/RB)
MF-H Duo (Aquario/Cancer/Hades/Cygnus) E230RSF/RDF/CS

Reviser/Killerken
MSF-H Revizer/Killerken Revizer/Killerken BD145 (RDF/RB/CS/RSF)
MSF-H Revizer Reviser/Killerken E230 (RDF/RSF/CS/RB)


Genbull
MSF-H Genbull/Revizer Genbull BD145/E230 (RDF/RB/RSF)


STAMINA

Duo
(MF-L/MF-F) Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) W145 (WD/EWD)
Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) 230 (D/SD)
Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) TH170 (D/SD)
Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) SR200TB
Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) 160/LW160 PD
Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) SA165 (Normal Mode) EWD

Genbull
Genbull Genbull SR200 (TB/CS)
Genbull Genbull TH170TB

Phantom
Phantom (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) W145 (WD/EWD)
Phantom (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) TH170 (D/SD)

Dragooon
(MSF-H) Reviser/Genbull/Killerken Dragooon SA165 (Normal Mode) EWD


BALANCE
MF-H/MF-M Duo (Cancer/Cygnus) 230MB
(MF-M) Duo/Death Cancer/Cygnus F230 (Orange) (CF/GCF)
(MSF-M) Genbull Dragooon F230 (Orange) (CF/GCF)
(MSF-M) Genbull Genbull F230 (Orange) (CF/GCF)
Genbull Dragooon T125GCF
MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85MF
MF-H Diablo Kerbecs BD145 RF
MSF-H Girago Girago BD145 RF
MSF-H Wyvang Dragooon BD145RDF
Reviser/Killerken Dragooon SA165 (Normal Mode) RDF
MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145 RSF
Genbull/Killerken SA1165/BD145 GF
Balro^2 W145WSF
Girago^2 SA165MF
Revizer/Girago/Genbull Dragooon E230 (CF/GCF)
Wyvang Dragooon BD145 R2F/LRF
Dec. 28, 2013  1:59 AM
 
Put WD BD145R2F under Balance. It's anti attack.
Dec. 28, 2013  2:01 AM
 
(Dec. 28, 2013  1:59 AM)Roar! Wrote: Put WD BD145R2F under Balance. It's anti attack.
Just wondering, Wouldn't RDF be better? Smile
Dec. 28, 2013  2:41 AM
 
Although it's a change of tips , but they are very different in terms of performance. WD R2F aims to slam into attackers and equalize (which it should win with its stability) while RDF just sits there waiting for hits. But R2F handles Attack, stamina and balance more easily by koing them. (Defense can also be koed)RDF oses better but it cannot handle attack as well as R2F. But for R2F, you need to know when to bank or sweep, and you need to perform them correctly.
Dec. 30, 2013  8:33 PM
 
I feel that MSF Golem Saramandra E230RDF/RSF is a pretty good combo for defense
Dec. 30, 2013  8:36 PM
 
(Dec. 30, 2013  8:33 PM)hadeskerbecs123 Wrote: I feel that MSF Golem Saramandra E230RDF/RSF is a pretty good combo

Well, there are better chrome wheels like reviser and killerken: (I think msf-h) reviser/killerken reviser/killerken e230rsf/rdf/RB/CS is top tier.
Dec. 30, 2013  10:37 PM
 
Um... not to be rude or intrusive or anything, but uh, if there's an advanced member reading this, now would be a really good time to POST IN THE ADVANCED DISCUSSION!

The crickets are getting tired of chirping. XD
Dec. 30, 2013  10:48 PM
 
You didn't say anything wrong TBD. Stop being so submissive. The advanced forum is seriously lacking which leads me to question if it's necessary when all there ever really is there is talk and maybes. Advanced to me means more skill, actual gameplay experiece other than just with one type and actual testers. This thread needs to be taken more seriously because the tier list is outdated with weaker combos instead of tier newer(or older yet stronger or just as strong) counterparts.
Dec. 30, 2013  10:49 PM
 
Hush, little cricket, it's no better there than here. I'm holding off til my ZG stuff gets here so I can try some of this stuff out for myself before I say anything (and therefore have more weight behind my posts which might help maybe) and most everyone else is busy with Christmas, New Years, holidays, other family engagements or just blatantly ignoring the advanced forum's existence as per usual. This is a particularly bad time of year, though.
I'm also hoping to get the ZG Format CC list up seeing as I made a nice little copypasteable OP for that, and don't want to distract the very short attention span of that forum any further than I already have with Limited.
Plus I see a list with spelling errors and colors I can't even make out with these bleary eyes at 6am, so that would need to be fixed up all nice if you want someone to copypaste it there and say you've all come to a decision or whatever - we advanced members are extremely picky about how we're spoon fed, I'll have you know. Serious

Also what's this about R2F on anti attack? RF is basically always better for aa, more grip.

East: Eh, it has its uses still, sometimes certain things do come up which would get drowned out in regular threads but need to be discussed, and sometimes it's good to have in terms of not getting too swept up in hype etc. Definitely too slow (a lot of advanced members that are still active are staff so they're busy with that stuff often I guess) but yeah, has its uses.
Dec. 30, 2013  11:00 PM
 
LOL, I couldn't help posting the cricket thing...

What list with spelling errors? You mean this one?

Spoiler (Click to View)

... I don't see any spelling errors in there. If you guys want a full list, formatted and everything, I can have one of those cooked up in a jiffy!
Dec. 30, 2013  11:11 PM
 
I was talking about one on this page haha.

Cooking up a full list would be very nice, if you could. Best give them something they recognize, unfamiliar things can be very frightening. If my ZG stuff doesn't arrive today I'll post it up (if it does, one more day to try stuff out and I'll be on it).

I'd advise against CS on Duo E230, I'm surprised Duo E230 isn't up there already but I've never had real trouble knocking Duo E230CS out with Flash GB145 IIRC. Will give it a quick shot today if I remember, once I've actually slept.
Dec. 30, 2013  11:30 PM
 
Alright, Here's the list! The additions are highlighted in red (hope it doesn't confuse you too much, LOL!).

TheBlackDragon Wrote:
ATTACK

Wyvang
  • MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang (GB145/W145/H145) (R2F/RF)
  • Wyvang Dragooon SA165 (Zero-G attack mode) (R2F/RF/LRF)

Balro
  • Balro Balro (CH120/D125/T125/W145) (RF/R2F)

Flash
  • MF-H Flash (Orion/Escolpio/Pisces/Beelzebub/Ionis) (GB145/H145/S130/CH120) (R2F/RF)
  • MF-H Flash (Orion/Escolpio/Pisces/Beelzebub/Ionis) W145MF

Bahamdia
  • (MSF-M) Bahamdia Dragooon BD145 (LRF/R2F)


DEFENSE


Duo
  • MF-H Duo (Aquario/Cancer/Hades/Cygnus) BD145 (RDF/RB)
  • MF-H Duo (Aquario/Cancer/Hades/Cygnus) E230 (RDF/RB/RSF)

Reviser/Killerken
  • MSF-H Revizer/Killerken Revizer/Killerken BD145 (RDF/RB/CS/RSF)
  • MSF-H Revizer Reviser/Killerken E230 (RDF/RSF/CS/RB)


Genbull
  • MSF-H Genbull/Revizer Genbull BD145/E230 (RDF/RB/RSF)


STAMINA

Duo
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) W145 (WD/EWD)
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) 230 (D/SD/TB)
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) TH170 (D/SD)
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) SR200TB
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) 160PD
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) SA165 (Normal Mode) EWD/BWD

Genbull
  • Genbull Genbull SR200 (TB/CS)
  • Genbull Genbull TH170TB

Phantom
  • Phantom (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) W145 (WD/EWD)
  • Phantom (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) TH170 (D/SD)
  • Phantom (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) SR200TB

Dragooon
  • (MSF-H) Reviser/Genbull/Killerken Dragooon SA165 (Normal Mode) EWD
  • MSF-L Girago Dragooon SA165 (Zero-G Attack Mode) EWD


BALANCE
  • MF-H/MF-M Duo (Cancer/Cygnus) 230MB
  • MF-M Duo/Death Cancer/Cygnus F230 (Orange) (CF/GCF)
  • MSF-M Genbull Dragooon F230 (Orange) (CF/GCF)
  • MSF-M Genbull Genbull F230 (Orange) (CF/GCF)
  • Genbull Dragooon T125GCF
  • MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85MF
  • MF-H Diablo Kerbecs BD145RF
  • MSF-H Girago Girago BD145 RF
  • MSF-H Wyvang Dragooon BD145RDF
  • Reviser/Killerken Dragooon SA165 (Normal Mode) RDF
  • MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145 RSF
  • Girago/Genbull Genbull E230MB
  • (MSF-H) Wyvang Dragooon BD145 (LRF/R2F)

I was actually thinking the same exact thing when I was adding the new stuff in... I wasn't quite sure of myself, but I did remove CS from Duo E230. IMO it is effective, but I admit using it over other options is a bit risky.

As for R2F on Anti-Attack, Wyvang Dragooon tends to attack against Defense/Stamina types more effectively at high speeds. Plus, since it's moving in the opposite direction of its opponent, the additional speed reduces recoil on contact by quite a bit.
Dec. 31, 2013  11:16 AM
 
Speaking as a ginger, red is a fine color and anyone who has a problem with it can take it up with me.

I can't say I've had too much trouble hitting duo e230 but okay, tbh if BD145 is up there E230 should be anyway, I find it to be a superior defensive track all around really. If CS were to go on it, that would be better off in Balance rather than defense IMO.

Hm, I've never found the speed did much to help, but okay.

A couple of quick questions though, mostly related to TB - are 230 and SR200 the only setups it works on for Duo, is there a reason TH170 doesn't have it too? Also, for SR200, are D/SD not at all viable? (personally, I think SD is a pointless tip seeing as it tips faster than D and D's limit on wobbling angle is already tight enough as it is, and WD outspins both of them because it can precess at lower RPM's before falling over than the other two, and for me WD>D>SD stamina wise on 230, with mint or near mint examples of each (with wear on them, at least in Limited, a near-mint FS can actually beat D/SD by OS).
Lastly, wasn't Ifraid really good on Bahamdia too? Just looking at it, it puts weight in all the right places and lines up ridiculously well. Does Dragooon's left spin outweigh that?
Sorry for potential nub questions, but I've been out of it for a while and want to make sure I've got this stuff covered before I post that list up.

I did get a bunch of Zero G stuff today, however I don't have any MSF/MSF-H due to a small mixup, so I can't do as much as I'd like (which is a shame as there are a couple of concepts I've got that I really want to test out), which might be why Bahamdia Ifraid seems so good to me perhaps. I must say I'm surprised at how few things SA165 is on for attack, I guess it's a height issue (though SA165 is great for hitting tall opponents, and synchromes tend to hit lower stuff hard too), but its weight distribution is amazing for attack (in fact, my main concept is all about weight distribution, which I might have to bug you to look into (or just to check if it has been looked into already), TBD, seeing as I only have one Wyvang, PM me if you're interested).
Dec. 31, 2013  11:35 AM
 
Hey what about Bahamdia Begirados SA165(R2F/RF/LRF)? Or should there be more testing?
Dec. 31, 2013  3:34 PM
 
@th!nk's huge post that I'm not gonna quote:

Woah... I didn't realize TB wasn't on TH170 already. Definitely changing that right now.

As for no D/SD on SR200, IIRC in its testing thread it didn't do very well with D. TH170 out-did it comfortably. IMO D/SD don't go that great on a 195-200 height. It might be something to look into later, though.

MSF-H Bahamdia Ifraid SA165R2F was gonna go on the list, but then Wyvang and Balro came along and beat it out for the update. Comparing to the other Zero-G Attack types we have, it's just too inconsistent and not quite high-powered enough to get the job done as well. It isn't bad by any means, but Flash, Wyvang, Balro, and Bahamdia Dragooon all seem more reliable (plus, from a consensus of users I took a couple months back, most people agree it's not quite top-tier material).

shiny: Yah... I think only like 1 user has actually tried that thing. XD IMO we should take a little more time to look into it.
Dec. 31, 2013  3:45 PM
 
(Dec. 31, 2013  3:34 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: @th!nk's huge post that I'm not gonna quote:

Woah... I didn't realize TB wasn't on TH170 already. Definitely changing that right now.

As for no D/SD on SR200, IIRC in its testing thread it didn't do very well with D. TH170 out-did it comfortably. IMO D/SD don't go that great on a 195-200 height. It might be something to look into later, though.

MSF-H Bahamdia Ifraid SA165R2F was gonna go on the list, but then Wyvang and Balro came along and beat it out for the update. Comparing to the other Zero-G Attack types we have, it's just too inconsistent and not quite high-powered enough to get the job done as well. It isn't bad by any means, but Flash, Wyvang, Balro, and Bahamdia Dragooon all seem more reliable (plus, from a consensus of users I took a couple months back, most people agree it's not quite top-tier material).

shiny: Yah... I think only like 1 user has actually tried that thing. XD IMO we should take a little more time to look into it.

When you do, make sure to merge 230 and TH170 together where appropriate.

Well, to be fair I find WD outspins D at every height (topples at a lower RPM than D does), from what I remember, D is only used on taller tracks because WD being able to wobble at sharper angles makes tall tracks lose to opponents they otherwise would beat (probably related to CS being so good on tall tracks in limited, similar wobble prevention from upward recoil or w/e). I would do tests to back that up, but I have one near mint D I'm saving for tournaments and the others are a bit worn (which is all it takes for a mint FS to outspin them, with earth anyway Tongue_out).

Hm, fair enough, I probably just got lucky when playing around with it haha.


EDIT: Byser's Tests of SR200D looked okay, at least with Duo. It's kinda hard to tell if there was much more than that because of the shift to combination threads that seems to have occurred with the start of Zero-G. If that's all, I guess it probably needs more testing, perhaps something to look at when you have time alongside your TH170/195 D stuff.
FWIW IMO the question with TH170D would be "does D do enough at 220 to make up for being generally inferior to WD elsewhere, assuming both of those are the case" - you'd also need to be careful of what I said above w/ regards to D being used for its performance against other heights rather than being the longest lasting tip on tall tracks.
Jan. 01, 2014  1:59 PM
 
Tests or BD145GF (Click to View)
Jan. 01, 2014  7:00 PM
 
I would just like to make something clear, and no offense to anyone, but if you're going to post results for something, you MUST test against TOP-TIER customs...

BD145GF is a good setup, but IMO it's a little risky to use over SA165/BD145RDF. Plus, its spin-stealing abilities are really no that great compared to most other combinations.

However, it can still do some pretty decent damage to different competitive customs. We should get Meow! Over here if we're discussing GF spin-equalizers. He pretty much invented them. XD
Jan. 02, 2014  12:04 AM
 
Duo and Revizer Killerken are top tier and girago wyvang S10RF is nearly top tier. Nice job meow!
Jan. 02, 2014  12:07 AM
 
(Jan. 01, 2014  7:00 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: However, it can still do some pretty decent damage to different competitive customs. We should get Meow! Over here if we're discussing GF spin-equalizers. He pretty much invented them. XD

Just want to make something clear. Yuko Ray14 made BD145GF, not Meow!. But you should get Meow! over here too. And I'd say that SA165/BD145RDF has petty stamina compared to GF, bot incredible Precession, so I dunno :\
Jan. 02, 2014  12:58 AM
 
I hate BD145GF personally. Requires a soft touch, I CANT do that.
But yes Yuko used that in a tournament almost a year ago, he also created F230CF... wish he was able to add more to these testing but he keeps himself very busy with academics.
I just would be hesitant to put this up there because like I said it will not work for everybody and is easily countered, but then so are plenty of other top tier items... if expected.
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