Balro Balro W145WSF

Hey guys!

I've been looking for a new combo to post for a while now... I thought I had tried everything, but then I found this!

The concept:

Spoiler (Click to View)

This beyblade is remotely similar to the classic Flash Orion W145MF combo, but with a slightly different application. This combo is designed to out-spin anything by dealing critical damage at the very beginning of the match, and then breaking into a stall to OS , which is accomplished with WSF.

KO-ing is definitely an option against anything, and a bank is critical to this combo's effectiveness anyway. However, the real goal is to destabilize/drain the spin of the opposing bey by mercilessly slamming it over and over, without sacrificing much spin velocity at the beginning of the match, and being able to shift to a stall even after a perfect sliding shoot to wait out the rest of the battle.

Of course, this will work brilliantly as a tornado staller, and it can substitute as a passable attacker if you need one, but the above application will be effective against most everything.

The launch:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Against stamina types of any kind (IE tornado stallers, spin-equalizers, conventional endurance types, etc.), your best option is always to bank. Some may use a normal shot banking, others may use the sliding shoot, but the important thing is that the beyblade makes continual contact with its opponent as early in the match as possible. This will usually lead to a KO, but if it doesn't WSF's stalling power will take over, using the early damage to its advantage.

^This launch is relatively hard to learn, but a couple hundred rounds of testing will get you used to it . It's kinda tricky to actually hit something with WSF, so you may not get the best results at first, but after a while you'll begin to see high win rates against most stamina types.

Against defense, tornado stalling is most likely the best option. This combo does, like most tornado stallers, have a noticeable amount of recoil (causing it to be occasionally KOed by defense). Although this isn't that much of a problem, stalling against defense is arguably safer than the conventional launch for this combo.

Against defensive stamina types (IE Reviser Dragooon SA165RDF, Wyvang Dragooon BD145RDF, etc.), always stall. This combo does not have the LAD to be OS-ing these variations of Dragooon combos. WSF has some seriously impressive stalling ability with Balro^2, so OS-ing these types of beyblades won't be a problem at all if you can avoid making contact.

Against attack, well, just bank relatively deep and hope for the best. XD

Parts Choice:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Normal Face:

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I bet a few of you are wondering, "Why didn't you use MSF-L/M/H to reduce the combos recoil?"

Well, there are 2 reasons... The first is that the recoil of this combo, although noticeable, in my experience is not all that much of a problem; at least in comparison to combos like Flash W145MF or Phantom 85MF.

The second reason is that any variation of metal face I put on this seemed to slow it down a LOT (kinda weird for a plastic-tipped custom... go figure :\), and reduce its stall time, which I just couldn't afford to trade for slightly lower recoil.

Balro:

Spoiler (Click to View)

The reason I didn't use the all-powerful supreme Wyvang in this custom, is that Balro has, in my experience, much higher stamina than Wyvang in a custom like this. I've also found that, though its smash is a little behind, it has considerably less recoil than Wyvang and/or Flash.

Girago was my initial option when I began to develop this custom, but Girago's spin-draining properties involve more of a grinding behavior, rather than a blow-it-into-the-air-and-beat-all-the-spin-out-of-it-in-the-mere-seconds-you-have-to-make-contact-with-it type of approach that Balro has (Allowing it to drain spin faster, which is preferable with a tip like WSF). Balro also just had more smash than Girago... simple as that.

Balro is also particularly well balanced, with mostly evenly-distributed weight, which allows it to stall for an exceptional amount of time (for a synchrom; not quite as well as phantom) before making contact.

W145:

Spoiler (Click to View)

I chose this track simply for its impressive solo spin-time (essential to a tornado-stalling type of combo). Not much else...

WSF:

Spoiler (Click to View)

This piece is absolutely essential to this combo... I have found WSF to work astoundingly well as a tornado stalling bottom (so far it has out-done MF every time!).

It also has a tendency to go through the middle a few times, and then break into a perfect tornado stall. As I mentioned in the "concept" and "launch" sections, this behavior is what allows the combo to deal critical damage at the beginning of the match without sacrificing the stamina that a flower pattern takes in the long-run.

Testing Videos:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Sorry guys, no recording device. Mine broke... guess you won't have the privilege of listening to the melodious sound of my voice this time (). I only filmed five rounds for the sake of time, but I think it gives a pretty good idea of how this combo works.

Tests:

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Benchmark:

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Flash Orion GB145R2F vs. Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches. Worn-ish RDF, worn R2F.
Orion: wins, 6/10 (4 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 4/10 (All OS)
Flash Orion GB145R2F win rate: 60%

2 OSes were just rounds with a hundred billion wall saves, and Reviser just couldn't take the hits.
I'd say 60% against Reviser with Flash and a worn R2F is pretty good.

Vs. Stamina:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Duo Cancer W145WD
Cancer launched first on all launches. Mint WD.
Balro: wins, 17/20 (10 KO, 7 OS)
Cancer: wins, 3/20 (All OS)
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 85%

This launch takes a little practice, but after that Balro has absolutely no problem with these types of conventional stamina combos.

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Duo Cancer 230D
Cancer launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 16/20 (10 KO, 6 OS)
Cancer: wins, 4/20 (All OS)
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 80%

This combo was notably harder to OS than the W145 variant, but it was still not much of a challenge for Balro. Just as a side note, there were a very, very high number of wall saves during this match. I'm guessing it could've hit 12-14 KOs easily.

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Genbull Genbull SR200TB
Genbull launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 9/10 (8 KO, 1 OS)
Genbull: wins, 1/10 (1 OS)
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 90%

Yah... Genbull has extremely high recoil from above and below :\ This wasn't much of a challenge.

Vs. Attack:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. MF-H Flash Orion GB145R2F
Balro launched first on all launches. Worn-ish R2F.
Balro: wins, 10/20 (6 KO, 4 OS)
Orion: wins, 10/10 (7 KO, 3 OS)
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 50%

This was one of the most bizarre set of tests I have ever seen. :\ I really don't know what to make of this... I launched the beys, one of them hit, they both went flying into the air, and the lucky one stayed in the stadium. All the other times they both just repeatedly slammed into the walls until one of them stopped spinning.

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Wyvang Dragooon SA165R2F
Balro launched first on all launches. Worn-ish R2F.
Balro: wins, 1/10 (1 OS)
Dragooon: wins, 9/10 (7 KO, 2 OS)
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 10%

Fail... just, total, complete fail.

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Wyvang Wyvang GB145R2F
Balro launched first on all launches. Worn-ish R2F.
Balro: wins, 0/10
Wyvang: wins, 10/10 (8 KO, 2 OS)
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 0%

This was painful to watch. Wyvang just shattered it... total slaughter. However, that's not exactly abnormal. The only stalling-type combo I've ever seen that attack types don't slaughter is Genbull Dragooon T125GCF (mostly because it's opposite-spin); everything else loses to attackers (IE Girago Girago SA165MF, MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85 MF, Duo Cancer W145MF, Flash W145MF, etc.).

Vs. Defense:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches. Slightly worn RDF.
Balro: wins, 25/25 (22 OS, 3 KO)
Reviser: wins, 0/25
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 100%

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Reviser Killerken BD145CS
Killerken launched first on all launches. Calm CS.
Balro: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Killerken: wins, 0/10
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 100%

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Duo Aquario BD145RB
Aquario launched first on all launches. Slightly worn RB.
Balro: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Aquario: wins, 0/10
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 100%

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Reviser Dragooon BD145RDF
Dragooon launched first on all launches. Slightly worn RDF.
Balro: wins, 19/10 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 1/10 (1 OS)
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 95%

^Balro just stalled and won without making contact in these (save the second half of the rounds against Reviser when I banked)... this thing obviously has no problem with defense.

Vs. Balance

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Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF
Wyvang launched first on all launches. Slightly worn RSF.
Balro: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Wyvang: wins, 0/10
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 100%

Balro was able to avoid being KOed during these rounds, just because it stalled so wide without making contact until Wyvang's spin velocity dropped enough... there were some pretty close hits though.

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. MF-H Duo Cancer 230MB
Cancer launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 14/20 (3 KO, 11 OS)
Cancer: wins, 6/20 (All OS)
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 70%

I lost count of the wall saves during this match... I'm confident Balro could've pulled at least 8 KOs out of these, but it just ended up out-spinning in the end. :\

Comparison to MSF-H Balro Balro TR145MF:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MSF-H Balro Balro TR145MF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches. Worn-ish RDF.
Balro: wins, 12/15 (2 KO, 10 OS)
Reviser: wins, 3/15 (All OS)
MSF-H Balro Balro TR145MF win rate: 80%

Pretty darn good... but not quite as good as W145WSF. From these tests, and the benchmark I posted, it would seem that the TR145 variant of this combo cannot actually KO any more efficiently than Balro^2 W145WSF.

MSF-H Balro Balro TR145MF vs. Reviser Dragooon BD145RDF
Dragooon launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 1/10 (1 OS)
Dragooon: wins, 9/10 (All OS)
MSF-H Balro Balro TR145MF win rate: 10%

Balro just couldn't stall nearly as long as the W145WSF variant. :\ I banked 3 of these rounds, but Balro didn't KO once.

Counters:

Spoiler (Click to View)

(MSF-H) Wyvang Wyvang H145/GB145/W145R2F/RF
Wyvang Dragooon SA165R2F/LRF

Overall, I think this is a great, safe balance combo to use. Tell me what you think!

Unfortunately, due to several random (and expensive) breakages over the past couple weeks, I will not be available to test ANYTHING for the next few weeks. I have a bunch of parts/equipment that needs to be replaced, and I can't really test efficiently until I can purchase them... but feel free to test all you want! Thanks!

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Wow, this sounds really cool. If only I had a WSF. Nice find! I'm diggin the concept!

Could someone test against Flash W145MF?

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still posi

Great Combo, I actually was experimenting a combo with this track and tip setup that I was going to use in my next tournament haha! But man you sure are on a roll with inovative combos! Keep it up man!

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When you enter the stadium with me you feel fear for the first time!

MI tournament thread Click or u will die
#1 In MI, #3 in BR:NORTH AMERICAN CHAMPIONSHIPS #22 In World

I've actually been tested WSF combos like this in BB-10 for actually a little while. In glad someone else noticed it has some nice uses in BB-10. I'll try to do help and post tests for this.

Nice! Luckily, I have W145 an WSF so, any testing requests?

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I am your dog.
Thanks for the sig, Rock kyoya!

Wow, this sounds really cool. If only I had a WSF. Nice find! I'm diggin the concept!

Could someone test against Flash W145MF?

From my informal testing, that would be completely and utterly destroyed. XD Flash is waaaaaay too light to stay in the stadium against this, especially with a tall low-traction bottom like MF. :\

One thing I didn't put in the OP, is that Phantom will lose horribly to this. I don't have any formal results, but its recoil is way too high. Balro like flips it upside-down nearly every time.

Nice! Luckily, I have W145 an WSF so, any testing requests?

Yes! didn't get around to this before my launcher broke...

Could you test against some E230 defenders and some MF combos (Girago^2 SA165MF, Phantom____ 85MF, and/or Flash W145MF)? That'd be awesome!

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Very cool!

Liking this custom, always been fond of Balance Types, so I am always glad when a new one pops up.

Would like to see this against MSF-H Revizer Dragoon SA165 EWD.

I'm really lovin the concept with this, looking like this could hold ton of potential

By the way could anyone test this againts Duo_F230CF or something else of some sort,keep it up lookin forward to more test, thanks.

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Wow, this sounds really cool. If only I had a WSF. Nice find! I'm diggin the concept!

Could someone test against Flash W145MF?

From my informal testing, that would be completely and utterly destroyed. XD Flash is waaaaaay too light to stay in the stadium against this, especially with a tall low-traction bottom like MF. :\

One thing I didn't put in the OP, is that Phantom will lose horribly to this. I don't have any formal results, but its recoil is way too high. Balro like flips it upside-down nearly every time.

Nice! Luckily, I have W145 an WSF so, any testing requests?

Yes! didn't get around to this before my launcher broke...

Could you test against some E230 defenders and some MF combos (Girago^2 SA165MF, Phantom____ 85MF, and/or Flash W145MF)? That'd be awesome!

All right!

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I am your dog.
Thanks for the sig, Rock kyoya!

Wow, finally something using WSF ( have it).

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I am an odd person sometimes, here's why (Click to View)

Oh hey, cool to see this get a thread! I've tried the exact combo, except with SA165 in lower.

Anyways, if you didn't KO defense, does this combo really have much competive use? Stuff like Balro Balro TR145 MF can KO or OS Revizer Revizer BD145 RDF, which is the deal breaker IMO.

Not to mention, I think an aggressively launched Dragooon on RDF will beat this.

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hmm I'll use this at a tournament with a T125 as a substitute and report back

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Spoiler (Click to View)

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Oh hey, cool to see this get a thread! I've tried the exact combo, except with SA165 in lower.

Anyways, if you didn't KO defense, does this combo really have much competive use? Stuff like Balro Balro TR145 MF can KO or OS Revizer Revizer BD145 RDF, which is the deal breaker IMO.

Not to mention, I think an aggressively launched Dragooon on RDF will beat this.

Tried launching Dragooon like that. :\ Balro still won every time. It stalls really wide near the beggining, and Dragooon couldn't get close enough to the tornado ridge to make contact.

And yes, I believe it does. Who said it couldn't KO Reviser? I didn't... I stalled during those rounds because it was most effective. Plus, as long as it wins, does it really matter how?

Now for tests. Thanks to my bro TigeroftheWest for lending me his Beylauncher L/R!!

Benchmark:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Flash Orion GB145R2F vs. Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches. Worn-ish RDF, worn R2F.
Orion: wins, 6/10 (4 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 4/10 (All OS)
Flash Orion GB145R2F win rate: 60%

2 OSes were just rounds with a hundred billion wall saves, and Reviser just couldn't take the hits.
I'd say 60% against Reviser with Flash and a worn R2F is pretty good.

MSF-H Balro TR145MF tests:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MSF-H Balro Balro TR145MF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches. Worn-ish RDF.
Balro: wins, 12/15 (2 KO, 10 OS)
Reviser: wins, 3/15 (All OS)
MSF-H Balro Balro TR145MF win rate: 80%

Pretty darn good... but not quite as good as W145WSF. From these tests, and the benchmark I posted, it would seem that the TR145 variant of this combo cannot actually KO any more efficiently than Balro^2 W145WSF.

MSF-H Balro Balro TR145MF vs. Reviser Dragooon BD145RDF
Dragooon launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 1/10 (1 OS)
Dragooon: wins, 9/10 (All OS)
MSF-H Balro Balro TR145MF win rate: 10%

Balro just couldn't stall nearly as long as the W145WSF variant. :\ I banked 3 of these rounds, but Balro didn't KO once.

Balro Balro W145WSF tests:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches. Slightly worn RDF.
Balro: wins, 15/15 (2 KO, 13 OS)
Reviser: wins, 0/15
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 100%


Balro Balro W145WSF vs. Reviser Dragooon BD145RDF
Dragooon launched first on all launches. Slightly worn RDF.
Balro: wins, 9/10 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 1/10 (1 OS)
Balro Balro W145WSF win rate: 90%

^Balro just stalled and won without making contact in the Dragooon tests. MUCH higher win rate against Dragooon, and considerably higher win rate against defense as well. I banked every round against Reviser this time.

And that's why I posted this. I spent a couple hours evaluating any previous Balro combos that had been tested to make sure this actually did something better than they did, and I must admit it took a while. XD

EDIT: Just searched the site for a while... I t would seem that Balro TR145MF has only actually has 50 rounds of formal testing (20 of which was me in the Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF thread), and it was never tested against Reviser BD145RDF. :\

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Oh hey, cool to see this get a thread! I've tried the exact combo, except with SA165 in lower.

Anyways, if you didn't KO defense, does this combo really have much competive use? Stuff like Balro Balro TR145 MF can KO or OS Revizer Revizer BD145 RDF, which is the deal breaker IMO.

Not to mention, I think an aggressively launched Dragooon on RDF will beat this.

Ive done some unofficial testing and I got some KOs in there. @theblackdragon This is a really neat combo! Hopefully gets on the tier list someday! It has the speed to hold on to the Tornado Ridge and if you launch it a little off, it goes off tue Tornado Ridge, slams into the wall making a flower pattern! W145 gives the Stamina to OS, and Balro gives the Smash! Have you considered an MSF?

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I am your dog.
Thanks for the sig, Rock kyoya!

Just from observation, I doubt the addition of a MSF would be what this custom needs.

The custom already provides a good amount of weight while still providing enough speed to land KO's, but at the same time, if it does not land a KO, it still maintains enough Stamina to out spin in most cases so far. I feel that the MSF would slow it down, just a tad, which is something I do not believe this custom really needs.

However, it would be worth trying I suppose, just to verify.

Actually, I just saw the OP.

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I am your dog.
Thanks for the sig, Rock kyoya!

Yep, I tried it. Read the parts explanation in the OP.

EDIT: Whoops... typed too slow! XD

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Yes, I don't see how it is physically possible for MF to KO more than WSF. WSF does not have any stalling issues and has much more traction and speed that MF has.

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EDIT: Just searched the site for a while... I t would seem that Balro TR145MF has only actually has 50 rounds of formal testing (20 of which was me in the Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF thread), and it was never tested against Reviser BD145RDF. :\

Ah, but it was with Phoenic, and that is just as good... http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Balro-Discussion?page=2

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Ah, but it was with Phoenic, and that is just as good... http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Balro-Discussion?page=2

Ah! I see...

Well, that's all well and good, but a couple things to notice:

1) There is no benchmark. If Kain had compared that to a WSF combo, then the tests would say something about the combo's differences in performance. Perhaps he had a good day and got an extra 2 KOs out of it! Happens all the time..

2) You'll notice that Phoenic Balro was extremely inconsistent in OSing Reviser, whereas this variation will hit 100% every time. :\

In conclusion, I totally love Balro TR145MF... its awesome, and also the primary basis for this combo! However, I believe that this variation is a bit of an improvement overall, just with a more consistent ability to OS, as well as the ability to stall wider and OS some of the left-spin combos that MF can't touch.

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Great! Someone found a use for wsf! I was thinking of something for a use, but has been very busy with school. I got a new w145 abiut a week ago so any test requests, it might be a couple of days before I can get around to do them though.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Its so great you found a use for WSF! I always had the idea MF>WSF at tornado stalling. I remember in your Balro Balro CH120R2F, you mentioned Gryph Balro CH120R2F has more smash.
Also, it is known Gryph helps boost spin velocity due to its small diameter, so, in your opinion, would Gryph be a better chrome wheel instead of 2 Balro's?
p.s, i did read the parts choice section in the OP, so please wbo moderators don't give me a higher warning percentage for not reading xD

Its so great you found a use for WSF! I always had the idea MF>WSF at tornado stalling. I remember in your Balro Balro CH120R2F, you mentioned Gryph Balro CH120R2F has more smash.
Also, it is known Gryph helps boost spin velocity due to its small diameter, so, in your opinion, would Gryph be a better chrome wheel instead of 2 Balro's?
p.s, i did read the parts choice section in the OP, so please wbo moderators don't give me a higher warning percentage for not reading xD

Well, I wouldn't say Gryph is better. :\ I said "from my experience," and I was working on an LTAC project at the time, in which Gryph worked much better. XD

I consider Balro Balro to be better than Gryph Balro for most things, and especially for this due to its superior balance and weight distribution.

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Another brilliant combo!!! I thought WSF had little use, but as usual, I was WRONG!!!!!

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Another brilliant combo!!! I thought WSF had little use, but as usual, I was WRONG!!!!!

Ah MAN, I thought Balro Phoenix was a good combination. Oh well!!

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Threads

Like BB-46 and testing customs in it, come here:

BB-46 Balance Stadium Combo Testing Thread

Wanna know about Tornado Stallers, come here:

Tornado Stallers

Can you try this combo with Begirados Balro/Balro Begirados? from my testing Begirados has excellent balance with Balro, with almost twice the spin time of Balro Balro.

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Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}