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MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion (v1.5 - 9/20/16)

Mar. 29, 2014  8:59 PM
 
Not really, since there are much better wheels in every category.
Mar. 29, 2014  10:38 PM
 
RS is banned because its stamina isn't too awful on low tracks and it wrecks the viability of a lot of old wheels just by being available.

Anti-Attack is the most successful defense gets in Limited and it's an extremely powerful type overall. This is what I think people complaining about defense being weak etc forget. They require skill to use - defense, notsomuch - I know which one I'd rather reward.

Anyway, Defense should still be managing quite handily against attack under tournament conditions, and it's not like we've exhausted all the options with currently available defense parts yet either.
Mar. 29, 2014  11:35 PM
 
(Mar. 29, 2014  8:59 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote: Not really, since there are much better wheels in every category.

Can u help me think of some good Stamina and Attack combos for Limited Format. At the moment I have MF/HF-H Vulcan Libra 85/90 R2F/LRF for Attack and I don't yet have a good Stamina combo.
Mar. 29, 2014  11:38 PM
 
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:35 PM)Exotics King Wrote:
(Mar. 29, 2014  8:59 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote: Not really, since there are much better wheels in every category.

Can u help me think of some good Stamina and Attack combos for Limited Format. At the moment I have MF/HF-H Vulcan Libra 85/90 R2F/LRF for Attack and I don't yet have a good Stamina combo.

List your parts in the build me a combo thread.
Mar. 29, 2014  11:45 PM
 
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:38 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote:
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:35 PM)Exotics King Wrote:
(Mar. 29, 2014  8:59 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote: Not really, since there are much better wheels in every category.

Can u help me think of some good Stamina and Attack combos for Limited Format. At the moment I have MF/HF-H Vulcan Libra 85/90 R2F/LRF for Attack and I don't yet have a good Stamina combo.

List your parts in the build me a combo thread.

I have too many beyblades so I can't do that but can u just post in the Build Me A Combo thread some good combos that I can test out?
Mar. 29, 2014  11:53 PM
 
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:45 PM)Exotics King Wrote:
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:38 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote:
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:35 PM)Exotics King Wrote: Can u help me think of some good Stamina and Attack combos for Limited Format. At the moment I have MF/HF-H Vulcan Libra 85/90 R2F/LRF for Attack and I don't yet have a good Stamina combo.

List your parts in the build me a combo thread.

I have too many beyblades so I can't do that but can u just post in the Build Me A Combo thread some good combos that I can test out?
if you have most of the beyblade parts, post the ones that you don't have. If you want an idea, look at the Limited competitive customs thread for one of the list drafts or just look three the limited forum for good customs.
Mar. 29, 2014  11:55 PM
 
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:53 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote:
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:45 PM)Exotics King Wrote:
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:38 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote: List your parts in the build me a combo thread.

I have too many beyblades so I can't do that but can u just post in the Build Me A Combo thread some good combos that I can test out?
if you have most of the beyblade parts, post the ones that you don't have. If you want an idea, look at the Limited competitive customs thread for one of the list drafts or just look three the limited forum for good customs.

Ok I will thanks
Is Bearing Drive banned in Limited?
Mar. 30, 2014  12:30 AM
 
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:55 PM)Exotics King Wrote:
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:53 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote:
(Mar. 29, 2014  11:45 PM)Exotics King Wrote: I have too many beyblades so I can't do that but can u just post in the Build Me A Combo thread some good combos that I can test out?
if you have most of the beyblade parts, post the ones that you don't have. If you want an idea, look at the Limited competitive customs thread for one of the list drafts or just look three the limited forum for good customs.

Ok I will thanks
Is Bearing Drive banned in Limited?

The ban list can be found in the OP. Bearing Drive is not banned.
Mar. 30, 2014  2:18 PM
 
Guys, read the OP for goodness sake. The ban list is right there.
Mar. 30, 2014  3:07 PM
 
just a note that Scythe B:D was huge at the NC Qualifier, and yeah, it needs a ban guys.
Mar. 30, 2014  3:14 PM
 
(Mar. 30, 2014  3:07 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: just a note that Scythe BGrin was huge at the NC Qualifier, and yeah, it needs a ban guys.
Just because it was popular I don't think it deserves a ban. It was used a lot and it was good, but not unstoppable at all. Attack beat it and I beat an AA2 Sycthe Cancer BD in the finals against Stormscorpio1 using an AA1 MF-H Scythe Cancer 230 CS. I think the main reason multiple people used it is because most NC bladers get attached to certain combos after using it a few times. I personally don't think it deserves a ban as it wasn't to broken when I watched people use it and played agains it.

Edit: I actually beat TBD's Scythe BD with MF-H Scythe Cancer 230 CS. His mold isn't AA2, but I just wanted to note that I beat two different molds of it.
Mar. 30, 2014  3:17 PM
 
I mean Scythe in general. We didn't just use it for Stamina, Balance as well(in Scythe 230CS) which also did very well, and performs better vs. Attack.
Mar. 30, 2014  3:25 PM
 
Scythe does do good in multiple match ups, and while that makes the metal versatile it is not ban worthy IMO. You can't just stick any Sycthe combo on a launcher like you can Dragooon F230 CF/GCF in Zero G. You have to actually think it though some. I know you said it works good in match ups like attack vs attack, but you won't know they are attaching attack. If you pull out Sycthe attack and they pull out top tier defense you lose. It's the same for the other Sycthe combos, they are good but all have big weaknesses.
Mar. 30, 2014  5:29 PM
 
Personally, I disagree with a Scythe ban. Especially with all of the different molds.

Just saying, yesterday in the finals of the Limied portion of The Pantom (Orion) Menace my Scythe Cyngus BGrin lost to Thermal BGrin. Pretty badly, too.
Mar. 30, 2014  7:27 PM
 
(Mar. 30, 2014  3:07 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: just a note that Scythe BGrin was huge at the NC Qualifier, and yeah, it needs a ban guys.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sup guys how u like scythe

Don't mind me I just heard the winning combos from the tournament and am gloating.

#OmegaCan'tStopThisTrain

Or at least Scythe was so omnipresent that Omega couldn't do enough about it idk. Gonna propose both be banned for the actual NA Champs.

Leone19: What you saw was a massive abnormality. Something between B: D and Scythe molds. Nothing bar maybe duo (which is liable to get KO'd I'd bargain) or another scythe can stop a good scythe BGrin without a KO.


Thunder Dome: What you KO'd scythe stamina/stamina-balance with attack no really? Also with another scythe? That's realllllly not convincing me. The thing managed to do well in an area that was using the two attack wheels capable of handling non-anti-attack scythe combos (and in Omega's case even doing not-awful against most of those) so I would say that is a pretttttty strong statement.
Mar. 30, 2014  7:36 PM
 
(Mar. 30, 2014  7:27 PM)th!nk Wrote:
(Mar. 30, 2014  3:07 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: just a note that Scythe BGrin was huge at the NC Qualifier, and yeah, it needs a ban guys.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sup guys how u like scythe

Don't mind me I just heard the winning combos from the tournament and am gloating.

#OmegaCan'tStopThisTrain

Or at least Scythe was so omnipresent that Omega couldn't do enough about it idk. Gonna propose both be banned for the actual NA Champs.

Leone19: What you saw was a massive abnormality. Something between B: D and Scythe molds. Nothing bar maybe duo (which is liable to get KO'd I'd bargain) or another scythe can stop a good scythe BGrin without a KO.

I'm going to order another Scythe soon enough, to see any differences. Is there any way to tell which set (starter, two-pack, three-pack) had the "good molds" or for anyone to check where their's came from?

Anyhow, even though my Scythe BGrin got creamed by Thermal BGrin, my Sythe GB145 RSF held super-nicely against a Beat LTAC, which was only defeated a few times, actually (it scored fourth).
Mar. 30, 2014  7:38 PM
 
No, there's no certainty. All luck soz. Part of just how obnoxious it is IMO.

Yeah see that's more what I'm talking about - that's a mid-height defense combo standing up to what is for everyone but me an extremely strong LTAC (i.e. something with a height advantage).


Going to post in the advanced forum thread now, even without the winning combos list being posted - Scythe has done what was asked IMO.
Mar. 30, 2014  11:28 PM
 
(Mar. 29, 2014  10:38 PM)th!nk Wrote: RS is banned because its stamina isn't too awful on low tracks and it wrecks the viability of a lot of old wheels just by being available.

Anti-Attack is the most successful defense gets in Limited and it's an extremely powerful type overall. This is what I think people complaining about defense being weak etc forget. They require skill to use - defense, notsomuch - I know which one I'd rather reward.

Anyway, Defense should still be managing quite handily against attack under tournament conditions, and it's not like we've exhausted all the options with currently available defense parts yet either.

I'm not saying that we should unban RS, I just kinda miss it hah. Anti-Attack has always been fun, even with Diablo it was a blast to use.
Mar. 30, 2014  11:44 PM
 
Actually, Omega could've easily won most matches in that tournament. I think it was more the fact that everyone got so roped into the Scythe frenzy that they forgot about it (plus, Scythe/Libra CS were everywhere, and while Omega could've won, with the risks involved and the fact that Scythe was a better choice overall for the situation I'm not surprised it came up as little as it did).

That said, I'm looking back now and facepalming over not using it, because TBH the finals would've been a piece of cake had I done so. I still get ridiculous numbers with it and my opinion hasn't changed in the slightest.

Oh yah, and now that I've apparently got a friend who can't keep secrets, I wanna tell you guys there's a more versatile Omega setup out there than 85. This is gonna sound stupid, but MF-H Omega Horuseus 105RF breaks every height in the game easily. The 2.5 mm height change helps a ton against 220/230 opponents, and doesn't give much of a disadvantage against LTDC (also prevents scraping against Libra RF). CH120 also works wonders against all heights.

IMO, right now 105/CH120 are more of a threat than 85. No formal testing, crazy week waiting on parts yadda yadda yadda, but you should all try it. It's legit freaky.

While my opinion might not impact the adv. guys' descision, just to say it, I wholeheartedly support the ban of both Omega and Scythe.
Mar. 30, 2014  11:47 PM
 
Oh yeah don't get me wrong - if I were able to introduce one new part to balance the metagame properly it would likely be a small buff to defense, but there's nothing on the current banlist that isn't too big a step in the other direction (which would result in Limited losing the aggression that keeps it relatively free of combinations that are too easy to use for their power (spammable), and also severely impact the viability of many older wheels). SA165 is probably not too bad in that regard but sadly its LAD/Distribution mean that it's not practical for other reasons. I know how passionate I am about RS/RDF staying banned might sound a bit dogmatic to some, but their absence is a big part of the format's uniqueness and reintroducing them removes a lot of other factors that I generally hear as reasons for why people like Limited.

And yeah, Anti-Attack is a wonderful type and IMO its presence in Limited is a big part in why it still manages to be aggressive without falling into the hole HMS does with regards to a lack of really viable counters to Attack (before anyone suggests it I've already played around with trying to make anti-attack work in HMS, but as Circle Upper is probably one of the best Defensive AR's (Metal Ape or w/e MAMS' AR is has a lot of recoil) you just end up with another Attack custom anyway). Also a big reason why I think Libra needs to stay around even if Libra Anti-Attack puts up serious results.

@TBD: Oh don't worry I'm aware that Omega is one of the better answers to scythe (though Scythe is one of the best answers to Omega given the right setup) but as you said - Scythe is a "safer" choice - basically what I said about estimating the likely tournament impact of a wheel was borne out nicely (with Scythe being much more common in terms of ownership than I expected).
As for the 105 thing, I did find 85 better vs one specific setup I played around with (a low track anti-attack) but the impact only really affected cases where a certain part was unavailable from what I had tried out. As for 105 having been spoken about, don't know who that is aimed at, but from what I heard you mentioned 105 at the tournament - people I spoke to who were there seemed to know about it anyway. I definitely don't get impressive results out of CH120 though - but if you check the advanced forum topic I've proposed Omega be banned in the next update.
(Also PS it's not the "advanced guys" decision, just staff - I don't have significantly more say in it than you do, especially as I'm pretty sure they read this topic pretty thoroughly before making decisions now).
Mar. 31, 2014  12:54 AM
 
Of all the Scythes used, how many were the "good" mold? From what I've read AA2 seems to be the the best but most testing results seem very inconsistent, even when using the same mold.

As for Omega, it was honestly only a matter of time before someone thought "oh let's try it on the generic CH120RF setup", so that doesn't really surprise me.

The reason we unbanned Omega was more or less to deal with Scythe, correct? But it seems like everything now is Omega and Scythe, with the only differences being how the two are used. I agree that both should be banned; I actually think Scythe should have just been banned outright rather than the whole unbanning/rebanning Omega deal.
Mar. 31, 2014  1:12 AM
 
From what I hear even non-AA2 Scythes did quite well, and I mentioned in my advanced forum post (and just finished editing in more detail about it) that there is definitely crossover. Defensively, most results seem pretty consistent regardless of performance in other types, but either way given how common it apparently was, I don't think it's all that important either.

I figured it hadn't been used on CH120 because the contact points it hits common heights with on CH120 are a lot less effective than the ones it uses on low tracks, hence it sucking for me.

No, we unbanned omega because testing showed it wasn't too powerful that the ban on it was justified, basically - the fact it did better against scythe than most other attack wheels was and still is something I consider a plus to its presence if Scythe is to stay around. The committee didn't ban Scythe on the basis that they felt tournament results were absolutely necessary to do so, and to that point a Scythe that didn't work great vs Duo in stamina was the only one that had showed up in the winning combos lists. Personally, my disagreement on this was based on the assumption (a fair one at the time, but in the end incorrect) that it the tournament it would make its mark on would likely be in a place that would be hurt by that, based on who had it and the fact both areas were trying to get tournaments together - in the end that didn't happen, and people in stable areas got their hands on good ones so that much didn't turn out so bad, though it rearing its head during qualifiers is kinda bad, I'd rather have Scythe and Omega than just Omega (and obviously just Scythe).
As long as we deal with Scythe before AN (if it weren't for the agreement on keeping the banlist the same through qualifiers (well, I assume it was agreed to) then I'd probably call for a very quick ban on both, but eh), I'm comfortable with how things played out, if only because of how late Omega arrived to the party.

As for Omega, the testing that we had before unbanning it was definitely enough to make that decision on at the time - it was only when people found ways to make Omega stronger that it actually became a problem - but on the other hand in doing so we gained knowledge, both about it and about some other parts, which is a secondary aim of Limited. In the end, especially given that Omega is not exactly an easy wheel to use, as long as we deal with it in a timely manner we probably benefited from its legality a lot more than we will suffer for it.
Mar. 31, 2014  2:23 AM
 
TBH, I think the reason Omega only got great results (and not OMG where did this thing come from it's destroying everything in sight results), was because nobody tested with Horuseus then. It's still effective without it to an impressive degree, but the CW choice has a huge impact.

Oh, BTW guys, been testing 100 on Omega all night, and so far I find it more effective than anything I've tried (had testing it in mind when I found the 105 thing, but couldn't test it until this weekend due to ridiculously hectic schedules). Erases the disadvantage that 105 has against LTDC completely, and still gives you the crazy smash against 230/145 heights.

Compared to both 85 and 105 against all defensive heights, using Earth RB. Haven't compared with Libra yet, but the Earth results are pretty convincing.

@th!nk: Yah, they all knew about it because I told a friend about it while I was still testing it, made him swear secrecy, and then found out later that he told Thunder Dome, who told SS1, who took it to the tournament... yah.
Mar. 31, 2014  6:07 PM
 
Why was Jade band? Why are bey parts band on here anyways?
Mar. 31, 2014  6:29 PM
 
(Mar. 31, 2014  6:07 PM)Ray Sagittario Wrote: Why was Jade band? Why are bey parts band on here anyways?

Mainly because of its weight, but it's unbanned now.

Because this forum was meant to be as fair as possible and most 4D and synchromes are too overpowered. I believe there is a least of reasons why the parts are banned
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