MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion (v1.5 - 9/20/16)

:: MFB: Limited ::
Ban List Discussion

The new MFB: Limited format is unique among the other Beyblade formats in that it employs an extensive ban list, meaning certain parts are not allowed in tournament play. The reason there is a ban list is to remove parts deemed too powerful for the format, with the goal of creating a metagame where parts previously deemed uncompetitive have a chance to shine!

The process of determining which parts are too good and which aren't is more of an art rather than a science, and as such the current ban list is more than likely not perfect. There might be some parts that are legal that are truly backbreaking, or there might be some parts that are banned that might not actually need to be banned at all! As such, another goal of the format is to have a dynamic ban list, one that is updated frequently to remove parts that are problematic and to give currently banned parts a chance if they deserve one.

That's where this thread comes in: in order for the ban list to be dynamic, we need input from you, the Bladers! Is there a part that you think is way too good? Do you think something shouldn't be banned that is? As long as you provide a reasonable amount of detail in your posts, feel free to share your thoughts on the matter here!



:: Current Ban List ::
v1.5, 9/20/16


Limited Ban List v1.5, 9/20/16 Wrote:CHANGE LIST
Newly Banned
  • CRYSTAL/ELEMENT WHEEL: Dark Knight/Ronin
Newly Unbanned
  • WHEEL: Gravity (and all Perseus Clear Wheels)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
WHEELS
  • All Synchroms (NOTE: Non-Synchromed Zero-G wheels are legal!)
  • All 4D/Hyperblade Metal Wheels EXCEPT Jade
  • Basalt
  • Hell
  • Libra
CRYSTAL/ELEMENT WHEELS
  • Dark Knight/Ronin
TRACKS
  • BD145
  • SA165
  • E230
  • SP230
BOTTOMS
  • RDF

Detailed Explanations (Click to View)



:: Detailed Banned Part List ::
v1.5, 9/20/16


Detailed Banned Part List v1.5 (Click to View)



:: Old Ban Lists ::


v1.5, 9/20/16 (Click to View)

v1.4, 9/7/15 (Click to View)

v1.3, 5/3/15 (Click to View)

v1.2, 3/1/14 (Click to View)

v1.1, 1/20/14 (Click to View)

v1.0, 12/4/13 (Click to View)



Old Content (Click to View)
WOOHOO!!!!

One question... Can we TOSS F230???

This would be perfect for that! If you wanna throw away dominant parts, F230 should be trashed. Just my opinion.

Oh Gees, I need to get my hands on a Lightning, heheh. Eee
(Dec. 04, 2013  2:57 PM)theblackdragon Wrote: WOOHOO!!!!

One question... Can we TOSS F230???

This would be perfect for that! If you wanna throw away dominant parts, F230 should be trashed. Just my opinion.

Oh Gees, I need to get my hands on a Lightning, heheh. Eee

It's in the potential ban list, but needs more testing in how they do with other combos. I'm pretty sure it will get KOed by anything speedy, so it won't (most-likely) be a threat in this new format, but i'm just speculating.

I love this new format ! No more of the same combo over an over.
Oooh! I'm really liking the look of this. Seems like it's an excellent way to challenge advanced players.
(Dec. 04, 2013  3:18 PM)rkalajian Wrote: Oooh! I'm really liking the look of this. Seems like it's an excellent way to challenge advanced players.

Given a wider range of stuff works and this stuff is cheaper than more recent parts, it's probably more accessible than any other format, so it's hardly just for the bey-elite haha.
With the young kids I pull in, explaining something like a limited format won't be as easy Smile A lot of my new players come in with fresh Shogun Steel they just bought at Walmart too.
(Dec. 04, 2013  3:58 PM)Naijalak Wrote: A lot of my new players come in with fresh Shogun Steel they just bought at Walmart too.

Shogun Steel Beyblades are legal in this format, just not Synchroms!
Aha! I can't believe my brain didn't process that!

This ties in perfectly, then, with the new Unsynchromed Zero-G Beyblade Discussion thread!
(Dec. 04, 2013  4:07 PM)Naijalak Wrote: Aha! I can't believe my brain didn't process that!

This ties in perfectly, then, with the new Unsynchromed Zero-G Beyblade Discussion thread!

It does indeed! We found it really funny how a lot of threads like that started popping up right before the announcement of Limited, haha!
I imagine my digging for pre launch info in case anything it covered was too good n that thread looks less than subtle, in hindsight haha. Gotta get data Grin

Also speak for yourself Ingulit, I was having to try to hold off giving anything away when given opportunities to gather valuable pre-launch data on certain things. Torture, I tell you, nothing funny about it!

I can't wait for f230 tests to start rolling in, gravity f230 cf looked very dangerous from the limited tests we had on it (raigeko13 tried it out with a Hasbro one, it wasn't OSing earth gb145cs but it was really close). Also curious to see how metal fury wheels do as those are definitely scary due to size and the exaggerated designs they have from the power creep of the wheels they're based on. Always felt as though they were designed for pre-basalt times so now we'll see.
Why isn't CS banned but RB is?
(Dec. 04, 2013  5:11 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote: Why isn't CS banned but RB is?

I don't see why it should be ? It's not even that great of a Defense bottom to pose a threat. If it did, it would be considered and be updated into the next version of the list.

+ Ya gotta have some decent bottoms otherwise there won't be any Defense types ! haha
(Dec. 04, 2013  5:11 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote: Why isn't CS banned but RB is?

That's a good question! I'll take a shot at answering it, but th!nk could probably give a more detailed answer since he was the one who did the main tests for that.

RS, RB, and RDF all have a little too much pure defense for Limited attackers to ever be able to KO, whereas CS, RSF, etc. were more reasonable (they're very good for defense, but they aren't oppressively good). The idea is that if RS, RB, or RDF were legal in this format, attackers would be totally unviable, whereas with them banned things are a little more balanced between the four types of Beyblade.
Would unsynchromed beyblades be allowed?
I'm going to disagree on RDF. In gerneral about RDF if an attacker hit the opposing bey with a RDF the RDF can go off balance and create a aggressive movement or possibly scrap BD145.

If we were going to ban Libra then we need to ban Pegasus then.

So basically were going back to Earth Aquario C145/ED145WB all over again.

And Hell MW? Hell is rather easy to beat.

How about Meteor L Drago? It Precession is overpowered aside being light.

Lighting L Drago. If BD145 unbanned it over for the limited metagame. #LightingTank
I personally was thinking Meteo L Drago Might be a problem in this format considering BGrin(Bearing Drive) and F230 are both in the format. I personally feel that Libra could be a problem considering the past. I don't have Libra yet, but I will soon. Once I do Ill do some testing.
Before people potentially complain about the ban on RS, RB and RDF, I want to make a post to explain a bit.

Generally, Stamina has to worry about being knocked out by more aggressive defense types as well as being prone to KO by balance types.
Attack has to deal with usability problems that can cause them to lose to stamina types.
Defense has to worry about the rare MF-tipped attack type which almost invariably loses to a bunch of stamina types the few times such a combo is remotely viable and maybe some balance types.

Maybe not 100% accurate but the general gist is defense has quite a bit less to worry about from the type it matches up well against and in general.

Secondly, most older wheels and most wheels in the weight range considered suitable for Limited are aggressively designed. If defense is too strong or more speicfically too popular, a lot of wheels are not viable. a

Generally, these to figures coincide to indicate that defense needs a nerf.

Furthermore, defense has options aside from those tips that offer similar defensive capability: RF has more grip than any other tip and has fantastic ability to take hits, but can be harder to use and has poorer stamina - a few attack types can even outspin it sometimes, however it also has the potential to allow defense types to handle stamina combos as well.
RSF again has excellent grip, being particularly good on low tracks (Earth 85RSF is one of the best defensive combos I've used in Limited) and its stamina is better than RF, albeit still quite poor - Gravity TH170RF does have some chance of outspinning it, but it's far from reliable. It is not so strong that it is a complete wall against attack types by itself, but in the right combinations it does present a major problem for attack types.
CS is still a very capable bottom but you are trading off defense for survival by using it, so expect to be hurt by the a well used competitive attack type - this to me seems equitable.

If you didn't notice in those summaries, the way defense is makes the non-tip parts of the customization significantly more important. I have honestly had a lot more fun making defense customs in Limited than I have ever had in regular MFB as it is actually challenging, but building good defense types is very much possible, they're by no means slouches.

@ People whining about libra: stop being superstitious, it has a recoily as heck underside and overall is not significantly stronger than earth (they're different and can counter different things, but they're basically equal), anti attack combos with it are strong but not reliable enough against good combinations of any particular type to be broken.

@ Dark Mousy: MLD B: D is horrible, B: D does not fare well with smaller, lighter wheels in general.

@Stars: BD145 would never be unbanned in this format so it's not even worth mentioning. I don't know what you're on about talking about BD145RDF either, and it is widely agreed upon that RDF is one of the best defensive tips out there, your specific experiences with it are not exactly representative. It is also very exploitable for spin stealing and defensive balance in general, and creates a whole host of game balance problems with other parts as a result. As for Hell, hell is 40+g, extremely wide and very externally distributed, and MF-H Hell Kerbecs 230CS, if launched right is out of reliable contact range for almost any 145-height attacker, meaning attack then has to choose between handling it and losing to most low attackers (gravity has some chance of dealing with both, but most attack type wheels i.e. the majority of wheels in the format can't handle that). MLD was never a problem back then and MLD has horrible properties for precession by itself, it relies on tips, and the presence of attack types should prevent it doing anything too problematic especially without RDF around.

In general I'd suggest people not say things should be banned without trying them in the context of the format. Even if they were around back before the maximum series were released, a lot of things were overlooked back then. Go play and come back once you've got some experience with it, please.
Wow this is awesome Grin time to break out LDG XD
Would anyone consider banning BWD & EWD? I know there isn't a huge difference in performance between these two & WD, but it could make things more exciting.
(Dec. 04, 2013  10:32 PM)The Supreme One Wrote: Would anyone consider banning BWD & EWD? I know there isn't a huge difference in performance between these two & WD, but it could make things more exciting.

More exciting... how, exactly? Those parts are in no way oppressive, and we only want to ban parts that are causing problems for our lightweight metagame.
I may be wrong in saying this, but when I think of the best stamina performance tips, I think of those two. D, SD, WD, etc are good, but I've always had more luck with BWD & EWD. If they're included, I have a feeling that a lot of people, or at least the people I know, would be using them exclusively. Just my thoughts Pinching_eyes_2
We're less trying to ban the best parts as we are trying to ban the over-centralizing parts. Think about it this way: under our guideline of lighter wheels, bottoms like RS, RB, and RDF put a huge strain on attackers (to the point that attack would stop being viable), so we decided they needed to be banned. EWD and BWD, on the other hand, don't cause such an imbalance, in that their legality isn't causing swaths of Beyblades to not be viable anymore. We ideally want to keep the ban list as lean as possible, so we're focusing on banning problematic parts rather than parts that are just good.
Ah, I see now; I assumed it would just be an elimination of the best or most used parts right now in order to get people to think outside the box lol. That makes more sense.
On the potentially unbannable list, I still think ALL 4D metal wheels should not be allowed.

As for banning Basalt, I would be indifferent if you did or not. I think I'd want it banned to be honest though. Hell can stay as its not near as hard to knock out of the stadium. If you ban BD145 though, Hell will basically lose all of its competitive use right there so I'm against banning BD145. I don't think any tracks or tips should be banned besides possibly the combination of F230CF/GCF depending on how dominant it may end up being in this format.

For the the potentially bannable list, get Gravity off there! It'll probably be the best metal wheel for attack in this format!

So yeah, there's my short input Tongue_out.
Might I say, Metal Fury Blitz is quite fantastic... I'm ready for a battle in limited. I have my 3 combos ;D