(Apr. 01, 2022 1:14 AM)th!nk Wrote: No offense meant haha, perhaps it is mostly a fault in my lens - unfortunately to me it just seems like once you make 3 fairly general picks, there is then a big bias towards experience during selecting from the three, and you have more info to work with (or the opponent is using a smaller subset of possible opponents) which means you don't have to account for as much. I guess if I really consider it more I can glimpse the idea that "well I know they aren't using dedicated defense" or the like but to me... With the lack of data you have going into single bey, that's where I would expect people to be most likely to select a less directional choice (ie attack).
I know they don't, but I'm not sure I see how p3c1 changes that (keeping in mind the triple Xtreme was the result of a bet, cool as it is) - in single bey I feel like picking a directional combo like drift is riskier against opponents who only have one stamina counter vs in p3c1. In terms of accessibility also I guess I feel it's worse than single bey because single bey you can switch parts between your larger pool of possibilities, and if you can only make one good combo at a time then it's a big giveaway to the opponent which combo you will use. This is a fault of No Shared Parts rulings more than p3c1 mind.
Maybe the potential just hasn't eventuated yet.
Oh no, I wasn't offended at all, just a little surprised that P3C1 wasn't really working as intended, and trying to figure out why.
I don't really have like a well structured paragraph as a response, so this is just my general thought/replies on 1v1 vs P3C1 in this situation:
-Bias towards experience: could this be chalked up to lack of testing/exploration or practice with attack? If so, is that anything that can be fixed or even incentivized (outside of the reward of performing well at tournaments ofc)?
-Risk: Imo every selection is riskier in 1v1, just because you don't have any concrete info on what your opponent might use. When you play a directional combo, like Drift, or Atomic, in P3C1, you are making that pick with confidence, you have determined that it is has the best chance to win against whatever of the 3 combos the opponent might use, so of course it wouldn't feel as risky as making that choice without knowing what the opponent could use. This should follow for Attack as well.
Can't really argue about the accessibility - a 3 combo format will always be less accessible than a 1 combo format - and I also don't like the No Shared Parts ruling, but that's an argument that's been had several times over Burst's history and has always ended in favor of its existence, so idk if I can really help out there either.
(Apr. 01, 2022 2:29 AM)CrisisCrusher07 Wrote: So during this past tournament where we opted to try and use P3C1 we found that a lot of players were still going with very safe and standard Defense-Stamina Hybrid combos. However, just having these types of combos in some of our decks was not the case. My last round in Swiss I played against DeceasedCrab and from our previous battles he knew how prone I am to using Stamina Beys. He built his P3C1 deck with double Drift in order to have a good 50/50 shot at picking the right spin direction for an easy LAD match up. Well what he wasn’t expecting from me was that I had been practicing my launching with attack type drivers all week since the tournament before that in Virginia. So I had opted to use the 1 attack combo in my Deck which was Guilty Fafnir Karma Jolt’-6. This made the choice of whatever combo he would pick pretty useless. It was a different strategy all together. One that both me and geetster99 had talked about. We built our decks with the 1 attack combo and the 2 Defense-Stamina Hybrid combos (one in each direction) to force our opponents into using certain beys. It was a pretty well thought out strategy, just like our strategy for the Deck we both used in the top cut. We designed that to force our opponents into corners and make things go more into our favor. So P3C1 is definitely a better format for the higher skilled Blader. They will probably win more often than a BK randy. I just think that for the average Blader 3v3 is the best format to use so that way more people come back to play at the next event.
When we first drafted the ruleset for this, the most common expected deck was double max LAD and 1 Attacker, which even at the most bare-bones of combo diversity is a deck that encourages attack use due to the LAD combos having an unoptimal matchup spread. So it's cool to see this strategy developed and applied successfully in real life. Did you feel as if it was more or less risky than just using a LAD combo yourself, since it looks like you switched back to an all Stamina deck for the top 8? Do you feel as if more people would try this strategy after becoming frustrated with LAD matches, and that P3C1 gives them more of an opportunity to do so?
(Apr. 01, 2022 5:13 PM)CrisisCrusher07 Wrote: (Apr. 01, 2022 1:41 PM)p0l1w4g06 Wrote: The meta game is also too LAD centric, which is an issue.
It is and it isn't. At the end of the day you have to ask if the game itself is LAD centric or are the players LAD centric?
I know these are both kind of meant as one-off posts, but they are related to an issue that I've conceptualized a while ago that imo is most apparent in the Burst Limited Format (and MFB Standard too I guess): the LAD Floor, which is the minimum amount of LAD a combo can have to be viable in a dual-spin format. Normally Attack is what sets this floor, as the traditional way to defeat attack is to remain intact in the stadium and OS them, meaning you need at minimum enough LAD as a Defense combo to do this (which is why Kp' combos do not use a Frame).
However, the release of the Destroy' Driver has set the LAD Floor for Attack
too high - which is something that as a MFB player I still have trouble coming to terms with. Jaggy with LAD is not only a competitive Attack Driver by the definition of Burst players, but it also has more LAD (and sometimes more Stamina, depending on the combo) than defensive Drivers like Kp' or U', and it even has more LAD than a same spin Stamina Driver like Atomic, meaning that Defense, and sometimes even Stamina. cannot defeat Ds' Attack by OS. Fortunately, Ds' isn't broken by any means - there are a lot of Drivers with more LAD than it now, and it's still quite weak to being KOed by a rubber-tipped Attacker, but it's still a middle option between the two that can defeat either under the right conditions.
I don't think Ds' is the only culprit though - the culture of combo optimization over technique or counterplay (which heavily favors Stamina/LAD) that Burst has is definitely one as well. I also think the way TT designed the Burst mechanic doesn't particularly work well with dual spin, and as a result, Burst players have developed an over-reliance on LAD as a functional (burst) Defense/Stamina hybrid. It doesn't help that TT themselves seem to be leaning into this, but then again, it's their game - maybe I'm wrong for wanting to play it like MFB.
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