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MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion

Sep. 23, 2012  9:18 PM
 
:: MFB: Standard ::
Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion
For the BB-10 Attack Type Stadium

Welcome, everybody, to the competitive custom list and public discussion for the MFB: Standard format! In this format, all Metal Fight Beyblade parts are legal, and battles are conducted in the BB-10 Attack Type Stadium.

If you're just looking for the competitive list, just scroll down to that section below. If you're here to discuss what should go on the list, keep reading!

-=-=-=-=-

When it comes to updating the competitive customs list, the Advanced forum has an unfortunate habit of falling behind the newest customs being brewed, meaning the latest customs might not be listed and out-of-date customs might still be on the list. With this in mind, we are creating this public discussion to hopefully garner a better idea of what needs to be included or removed from the competitive list.

The way this will work is that both the public and the advanced threads will remain open with the advanced thread acting as a "final word" as to what, exactly, the competitive list will look like. This thread will act as a way for anyone to provide much-needed input between list updates, with the hope that this discussion will aid in overcoming the lethargic update patterns from which the competitive list frequently suffers.

While we're on that topic, the Advanced Forum Competitive Customs List Discussion can be found here.

I must implore all of you to please be intelligent about what you post in here. If you are going to propose a brand new custom, you will have to provide actual test and/or tournament results to back your claim up. If there is something that isn't on the list that obviously should be or there is something that you don't think should be on the list any more, please still provide as much insight into your suggestions as possible.

The main thing is that this thread has been tried in the past and had to be closed and moved to the advanced forum. I do not think anyone wants to see that happen again, so please be smart about what you post!

So, in closing, the current competitive list can be found below and an archive of all the recent lists is under that. Let's get discussing!


:: Current Competitive Standard Customs List ::
As of 7/1/14

(Dec. 16, 2010  3:55 AM)Kei Wrote:
ATTACK


Wyvang
  • {MSF{-H}} Wyvang Wyvang (GB145/W145/H145) (R2F/RF/LRF)
  • {MSF{-H}} Wyvang Dragooon SA165[Zero-G Attack] (R2F/RF/LRF)

Balro
  • {MSF{-H}} Balro Balro (CH120/D125/T125/W145) (RF/R2F/LRF)

Bahamdia
  • {MSF-M/MSF-L} Bahamdia Dragooon BD145 (LRF/R2F/RF)

Flash
  • MF-H Flash (Orion/Escolpio/Pisces/Beelzeb) (GB145/H145/S130/CH120) (R2F/RF/LRF)


DEFENSE



Duo
  • MF-H Duo (Aquario/Cancer/Hades/Cygnus) BD145 (RDF/RB)
  • MF-H Duo (Aquario/Cancer/Hades/Cygnus) E230 (RDF/RSF/RB/CS)

Revizer/Killerken
  • MSF-H (Revizer/Killerken) (Revizer/Killerken) BD145 (RDF/RB/CS/RSF)
  • MSF-H Revizer (Revizer/Killerken) E230 (RDF/RSF/CS/RB)

Genbull
  • MSF-H Revizer Genbull E230 (RDF/RB/RSF/CS)
  • MSF-H (Revizer/Genbull) Genbull BD145 (RDF/RB/RSF)


STAMINA



Duo
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) W145 (WD/EWD)
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) (TH170/230) (D/SD/TB)
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) SR200 TB
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) BGrin
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) 160 PD
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) SA165[Normal] EWD
  • MF(-M/-H) Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) 230 MB

Genbull
  • Genbull Genbull (SR200/TH170) TB

Dragooon
  • {MSF{-H}} (Revizer/Genbull/Killerken/Girago) Dragooon SA165[Normal] EWD
  • {MSF-L} (Girago/Revizer/Killerken) Dragooon SA165[Zero-G Attack] EWD


BALANCE

  • (Girago/Genbull) Genbull E230 MB
  • Girago Girago E230 MB
  • MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145 RSF
  • MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85 MF
  • (MSF-L) Balro Balro BD145MF
  • MF-H Flash (Orion/Escolpio/Pisces/Beelzeb) W145 MF
  • {MF{-L}} Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) F230* (CF/GCF)
  • {MSF{-L}} (Genbull/Girago/Revizer/Killerken) Dragooon F230* (CF/GCF)
  • {MSF{-L}} Genbull Genbull F230* (CF/GCF)
  • MF-H Diablo (Kerbecs/Unicorno II) BD145 RF
  • MSF-(H/L) Girago Girago BD145 RF
  • MSF-H Wyvang Dragooon BD145 RF
  • MSF-H Wyvang Dragooon BD145 RDF
  • {MSF-H} (Revizer/Killerken) Dragooon SA165[Normal] RDF
  • Genbull Dragooon (T125/D125) GCF
  • (MSF-H) Genbull Genbull (TH170/SR200) CS

* F230 must be one of the orange TAKARA TOMY ones from ZGRBV3, not the brown or red ones.




:: Competitive Standard Customs List Archives ::

December 2010 (Click to View)
July 2011 (Click to View)
August 2011 (Click to View)
September 2011 (Click to View)
December 2011 (Click to View)
February 2012 (Click to View)
10/8/13 (Click to View)
10/6/12 (Click to View)
5/11/12 (Click to View)


Old thread material (Click to View)
Sep. 23, 2012  9:21 PM
 
Nice list! Yes, I will definatly be contributing to this ...
Anyways, I feel like we will want one for ZG soon ...
Sep. 23, 2012  9:21 PM
 
I'll start things off with my suggested tier list from a very long time ago from the advanced forum:

Quote:

ATTACK

Flash
  • Clear Wheels: Escolpio, Orion, Pisces, Horogium
  • MF(-H) Flash ____ (105/CH120/D125/S130/GB145/H145) (RF/R2F)
  • MF(-H) Flash ____ W145 MF

VariAres
  • MF(-H) VariAres (CH120/R145) (RF/R2F/LRF)

Blitz
  • Clear Wheels: Unicorno II, Kerbecs
  • MF(-H) Blitz ____ (100/CH120) (RF/R2F)


DEFENSE

Duo
  • Clear Wheels: Aquario, Bull, Cancer, Cygnus
  • MF-H Duo ____ (BD145/E230) (CS/RB/RDF/RS/RSF)

Reviser Reviser
  • MSF-H Revizer Revizer (BD145/E230) (CS/RB/RDF/RS/RSF)


STAMINA

Phantom
  • Clear Wheels: Aquario, Cancer, Cygnus, Hades
  • Phantom ____ 85 (EDS/EWD/WD)
  • Phantom ____ W145 (EWD/SWD/WD)
  • Phantom ____ BD145 EDS
  • Phantom ____ (TH170/230) D/SD

Duo
  • Clear Wheels: Aquario, Cancer, Cygnus
  • Duo ____ W145 EWD/SWD/WD
  • Duo ____ BD145 EDS
  • Duo ____ 160 PD
  • Duo ____ TH170/230 D/SD


BALANCE
  • MF(-H, -M) Duo (Aquario/Cancer/Cygnus) 230 MB
  • MF(-H) L Drago Destroy/Guardian BD145RDF
  • MF(-H) Diablo (Kerbecs/Unicorno II) BD145 RF/R2F

NOTE: I was just experimenting with the format; this is not necessarily the best format for a tier list, so please don't take it as such!

This list was made before even SA165 and Dragooon were released, and as such it doesn't contain any customs involving either (both pieces are top-tier in my opinion).

Here are things I changed:
  • I feel AD145 has been outclassed by W145. As such, I changed all instances of AD145 with W145.
  • I don't think TH170 is a top-tier track for defense anymore since it just isn't heavy enough. In my opinion E230 does everything TH170 does defensively, except better. So, I replaced TH170 with E230 on all defense combos.
  • I removed Death from defense since it is just too light compared to current top-tier defense customs. Duo is also similarly light, but Duo's incredible combination of both stamina and defense is enough to keep it on the list over Death. (Perhaps Duo defense customs should be classified as balance?)
  • I added Reviser Reviser to defense because it's a defensive truck. There are tons of valid defensive Synchrom combinations, and those need to be discussed.
  • I added Hades to the list of clear wheels for Phantom. I have tested this a lot, and everything I've done has told me that Hades is one of the (if not the) best clear wheels for Phantom.
  • I added 160PD to the list of competitive stamina setups for Duo. I'll admit, this is based mostly on my own experiences, though I have done a lot of testing with the custom to back this up (the tests are in the Duo Cygnus 160PD thread).
  • I moved MF-H Diablo (Kerbecs/Unicorno II) BD145(RF/R2F) down to Balance from Defense since I feel that is more where it belongs. While it's designed to beat attack types, it is far from your standard defense custom.


Also, here are some things to discuss:
  • Basalt. Does it deserve a spot on the list, perhaps in anti-attack customs like MF-H Basalt Horogium R145RF/MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F?
  • Dragooon. It's creeping up everywhere, and it easily has the makings of a top-tier piece.
  • SA165. It's our third really heavy track, and it is putting up some good results already.
  • Synchroms. There are so, so many possible combinations of Synchroms that need to be discussed and tested it's not even funny.
Sep. 23, 2012  9:35 PM
 
Finally this is up. We need to add spin equalizers. Clearly they have done well in tournaments over the last few months. Ive won a tournament with spin equalizers.

Spin Equalizers
MF H Meteo L Drago CH120/TR145 EWD
MSF H Revizer Dragooon SA165 EWD(Obviously)

Balance
MF H L Drago Guardian/Destroy BD145 MF/RDF
MSF H Dragooon Dragooon BD145 MF

Remove Death from defense.
Remove AD145 from Stamina Add W145 for stamina
Add SA165 WD/SD/PD for stamina. It works.
Add Saramanda Saramanda to defense.

Dragooon has defense potential. It needs to be tested.
Sep. 23, 2012  9:47 PM
 
Thatk you for making this, Ingulit! Hopefully now we can actually have an accurate, up-to-date tiers list for MFB. Smile

Dark: For the Dragooon Dragooon balance combo, I'd actually go with Revizer Dragooon. From what I've heard, Revizer outdoes a second Dragooon in that combo.

As far as Basalt, Dragooon, SA165 and Synchroms go, here are my thoughts:

Spoiler (Click to View)
Sep. 23, 2012  9:48 PM
 
A Spin Equalizer section would be a great addition! I agree that Meteo/Dragooon deserve a spot in that role, and I was afraid the Balance section would get too crowded.

Are there any other notable spin stealers out there right now? People should look into basically every left-spinning wheel, haha!
Sep. 23, 2012  9:54 PM
 
Hah, I remember talking about this in the WBO Suggestions topic...

I'm pretty sure this has been gone over countless times but, how about having Spin Equalizers, Anti-Attack, etc combos as some sort of a sub-section under the larger combo types (Stamina, Attack, etc).? Although, so far the list looks good, imo.

Hopefully I'll do some testing whenever I have time so I can contribute more to this, aha.
Sep. 23, 2012  9:57 PM
 
Why does no one give Gravity Perseus the love it deserves?! It's still good. Gravity Perseus BD145RDF is a good balance combo that deserves looking into. I've personally never even considered TH170/230 defence tracks. What do they use to defend? Nothing that's what. They've been outclassed since BD145 was released. Also MSF Saramanda Saramanda BGrin should be looked into since it keeps popping up in the winning combinations thread. I do think Anti Attack should go up with Basalt in there and a Revizer Revizer BD145RF/R2f in there. Also isn't the Diablo combo you mentioned Anti Attack?
Sep. 23, 2012  10:03 PM
 
I just posted my updated list in the Advanced Forum thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Competit...pid1038125

Let me know what you guys think.
Sep. 23, 2012  10:30 PM
 
(Sep. 23, 2012  9:57 PM)Ultra Wrote: Why does no one give Gravity Perseus the love it deserves?! It's still good. Gravity Perseus BD145RDF is a good balance combo that deserves looking into.

Yes! Whenever I've used that combo against Death Bull AD145WD or Revizer Dragooon BGrin or SA165WD, Gravity always wins.

(Sep. 23, 2012  9:57 PM)Ultra Wrote: Also MSF Saramanda Saramanda BGrin should be looked into since it keeps popping up in the winning combinations thread.

It's not the Saramandas. Right-spin on B:D just beats Dragooon. :\
I'll try to get some tests up after other testing and Zero-G.
Sep. 23, 2012  10:45 PM
 
As th!nk said in the Top Tier List's thread, Killerken Killerken might be worth adding? We still only have like one legit test using it though, so I don't think we can say much yet, but hey...
Sep. 23, 2012  10:58 PM
 
Um we need more testing before we even consider it putting it up. Like a lot more considering atm we don't know what works best with Killerken. We have two very different combos both of which work well so we need to properly test more than one type.
Sep. 23, 2012  11:01 PM
 
To me, I feel that in Attack, Flash, VariAres, and Blitz needs to be removed. They don't fare well against synchrom defense combo's at all.

Attack: Currently, the only combo doing well is Killerkend Dragooon DF105 LRF/RF/R2F

Defense: Duo needs to go away. Seriously. Its terrible in today's meta (the stamina does not compensate for its weight.)

MSF Revizer Revizer E230/BD145/TH170 RDF/RS/RB/RSF/CS

Also, Dragoon/Revizer Dragooon should be added.

Stamina: SA165 should be added.
W145 Add.
AD145 Remove.
160 Add.
Just keep the standard Phantom/Duo comvos also.

Balance: LDG/LDD BD145 RDF
Dragooon/Revizer Dragooon BD145 RDF/MF
MF-H/MF-M Duo Cygnus/Aquario/Cancer 230 MB

Spin Equalizers: MF Meteo L Drago CH120 EWD/W2D
MF Gravity Perseus CH120 EWD/W2D

Zombies: MSF-H Revizer Dragooon SA165 EWD/(W2D is optional)

Spin Equalizers and Zombies are different as Zombies win by many rotations.
Sep. 23, 2012  11:03 PM
 
Ingulit, I just bolded and underlined a part of the first post, by the way.
Sep. 23, 2012  11:03 PM
 
(Sep. 23, 2012  11:01 PM)Ya Wrote: To me, I feel that in Attack, Flash, VariAres, and Blitz needs to be removed. They don't fare well against synchrom defense combo's at all.

Attack: Currently, the only combo doing well is Killerkend Dragooon DF105 LRF/RF/R2F

Defense: Duo needs to go away. Seriously. Its terrible in today's meta (the stamina does not compensate for its weight.)

MSF Revizer Revizer E230/BD145/TH170 RDF/RS/RB/RSF/CS

Also, Dragoon/Revizer Dragooon should be added.

Stamina: SA165 should be added.
W145 Add.
AD145 Remove.
160 Add.
Just keep the standard Phantom/Duo comvos also.

Balance: LDG/LDD BD145 RDF
Dragooon/Revizer Dragooon BD145 RDF/MF
MF-H/MF-M Duo Cygnus/Aquario/Cancer 230 MB

Spin Equalizers: MF Meteo L Drago CH120 EWD/W2D
MF Gravity Perseus CH120 EWD/W2D

Zombies: MSF-H Revizer Dragooon SA165 EWD/(W2D is optional)

Spin Equalizers and Zombies are different as Zombies win by many rotations.
Flash is currently the best in Attack,Variares is second so those 2 should stay but Blitz can't match up to Variares and Flash,Duo is still good for Defence but Revizer Revizer is better.
The rest you named are good

Sep. 23, 2012  11:09 PM
 
(Sep. 23, 2012  11:01 PM)Ya Wrote: To me, I feel that in Attack, Flash, VariAres, and Blitz needs to be removed. They don't fare well against synchrom defense combo's at all.

Attack: Currently, the only combo doing well is Killerkend Dragooon DF105 LRF/RF/R2F

Um that's not really a fault of attack though... It's just because of Zero G's weight. They're still the best attack wheels. You're probably right but more testing is required to find new top tier attack combos.
Sep. 23, 2012  11:51 PM
 
@YA: Attack have a problem with E230. Syncrome + E230 beats most attack combos now. But if you add metal Flat to the attack type they can OS it. So removing Flash, Vari Ares, & Blitz would just be a bad move.
Sep. 24, 2012  12:11 AM
 
I don't really know where I would put Killerken Dragooon DF105LRF on the tier list. It honestly reminds me a lot of Bluzee's MF Lighting L Drago BD145LRF. Just because it has aggressive movement, doesn't mean it has to be classified as only attack, because the combo has a lot more to offer.

It obviously defends against attackers, because Flash rarely KO's the low height, fast moving, tank. And it has great spin equalization abilities as well. I would put it more towards balance. Even then, there is a HUGE lack of testers these days. Even if it is Killerken Dragooon DF105RF or R2F, it would still be better than nothing.

As for Meteo, I am kinda half and half on it. Sure Meteo does well and can pretty much defeat a huge portion of the stamina and defense game, but I feel like Dragooon just does it so much better. Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD has been a huge threat, and not to mention things like Reviser Dragooon BGrin which I feel takes the place of Meteo BGrin. Th!nk brought up a point somewhere that Rubber was never needed in HMS for spin equalization. I believe this is completely true for Dragooon. Dragooon is basically a Meteo with more defense and attack abilities.
Sep. 24, 2012  12:16 AM
 
(Sep. 23, 2012  9:21 PM)Ingulit Wrote: Basalt. Does it deser-

Yes.

Duo needs to go away? It works very well in Duo E230RB for me, and the stamina combined with what RB has is still incredibly effective.

Dragooon and SA165 should go up, I can tell from my own experience that it belongs there. Revizer Dragooon, Dragooon², even Orojya Dragooon (right Ingulit?), all work very well. SA165 is self-explanatory really, the weight combined with the height and shape provide for insurmountable LAD and incredible use in spin-equalizing/stamina combos.

I feel B:D should be added as well. It's niche because it defeats Dragooon and spin-equalizers, and does get knocked out very easily, but that niche is a rather large portion of the metagame today and deserves mention.
Sep. 24, 2012  12:17 AM
 
Same I feel it is balance considering it's weird ability to outspin things despite being on a rubber attack bottom. Also I feel it should be noted however that the which rubber attack bottom is used on it probably makes little to no difference.

EDIT: Hadn't noticed that. Why isn't B:D on there?!
Sep. 24, 2012  12:24 AM
 
(Sep. 24, 2012  12:17 AM)Ultra Wrote: Same I feel it is balance considering its weird ability to outspin things despite being on a rubber attack bottom. Also I feel it should be noted however that the which rubber attack bottom is used on it probably makes little to no difference.

This.

I mean, I know it happens, but I still cannot understand the reason why. I've looked for several explanations physics-wise, but I really have no idea why this happens. Even on R2F this occurs.

I agree with Meow's description of Killerken Dragooon DF105LRF by the way. I could test it as well, but I don't have Killerken thanks to the price of that set...
Sep. 24, 2012  12:24 AM
 
(Sep. 24, 2012  12:11 AM)Meow! Wrote: As for Meteo, I am kinda half and half on it. Sure Meteo does well and can pretty much defeat a huge portion of the stamina and defense game, but I feel like Dragooon just does it so much better. Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD has been a huge threat, and not to mention things like Reviser Dragooon BGrin which I feel takes the place of Meteo BGrin. Th!nk brought up a point somewhere that Rubber was never needed in HMS for spin equalization. I believe this is completely true for Dragooon. Dragooon is basically a Meteo with more defense and attack abilities.

Meteo is still useful tho. Not everyone has Dragooon. Meteo still has a good impact in most metagames. Personally I like Meteo for certain match ups.
Sep. 24, 2012  12:34 AM
 
And to that,

(Sep. 24, 2012  12:16 AM)GaHooleone Wrote: I feel B:D should be added as well. It's niche because it defeats Dragooon and spin-equalizers, and does get knocked out very easily, but that niche is a rather large portion of the metagame today and deserves mention.

I reply with this.
Sep. 24, 2012  1:20 AM
 
(Sep. 24, 2012  12:17 AM)Ultra Wrote: Same I feel it is balance considering it's weird ability to outspin things despite being on a rubber attack bottom. Also I feel it should be noted however that the which rubber attack bottom is used on it probably makes little to no difference.

EDIT: Hadn't noticed that. Why isn't BGrin on there?!
Because it's too unreliable and absolutely appalling against a lot of common heights.

Sep. 24, 2012  3:48 AM
 
R
(Sep. 24, 2012  12:16 AM)GaHooleone[quote='Ingulit Wrote: Basalt. Does it deser-d

Yes.

Duo needs to go away? It works very well in Duo E230RB for me, and the stamina combined with what RB has is still incredibly effective.

Dragooon and SA165 should go up, I can tell from my own experience that it belongs there. Revizer Dragooon, Dragooon², even Orojya Dragooon (right Ingulit?), all work very well. SA165 is self-explanatory really, the weight combined with the height and shape provide for insurmountable LAD and incredible use in spin-equalizing/stamina combos.

I feel B:D should be added as well. It's niche because it defeats Dragooon and spin-equalizers, and does get knocked out very easily, but that niche is a rather large portion of the metagame today and deserves mention.
[/qu
Attack with Metal Flat kills E230 RB. Attack refers to Killerken Dragooon. VariAres and Blitz are outclassed. Flash can't touch defense, unless its on MF and even then Revizer/Dragooon/Orojya Dragooon BD145 RDF kills it.

Kilkerken Killerken should be added for defense.


SA165 should be added for defense considering its weight and shape.
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