MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion

(Sep. 29, 2012  1:26 AM)Insomniac Wrote: Equalizer/Zombie Comparisons!

Equipment (Click to View)

Conditions (Click to View)

MSF Revizer Dragooon B:D v. MF-H Gravity Perseus (Stamina Ver.) BD145RDF;
RD: 1 OS
GP: 9 OS
Ties: 6

Gravity's RDF went crazy one round, almost self-KO'd, came back to the center of the stadium with hardly any spin, and tied. lol Dragooon's win was by, maybe, a hundredth of a spin.

MSF Revizer Dragooon SA165(Normal Mode)WD v. MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145RDF;
RD: 0 OS
GP: 10 OS
Ties: 0

I'm not sure if EWD makes that much of a difference, but yeah... I usually prefer MF-L on my Gravity.

A couple more things: VariAres beats a lot of things that Flash has trouble with like MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145RSF and MF-H Phantom SA165(Normal Mode)RDF, due to its aggressive design, so I think it should definitely stay up. Not just for the reason that it can spin left.

Also, 160 seems to be a lovely height on Flash in general, so I'll definitely try to get some testing in on that too. Smile
Those are awesome test results! I do need to say that EWD is actually pretty vital for the Reviser Dragooon combo to work, but that is some great food for thought nonetheless! My launcher broke yesterday so I can't test until a new one comes in the mail, but I'll try that out ASAP. Someone should consider making a thread for it once they do more standarized testing if the test results follow this trend.

I wasn't honestly aware VariAres could do that; I've always been in the boat that Flash is just straight-up better. I'll look into it once my launcher comes in.

That's actually intriguing, Flash + 160; I'll have to try that out too!

(Sep. 29, 2012  8:09 AM)gameboysuperman Wrote: dont you guys think that there should be a top 3 for each category like

•Clear Wheels: Escolpio, Orion, Pisces, Horogium
•MF-H Flash ____ (CH120/S130/GB145/H145) (RF/R2F)
•MF-H Flash Orion W145 MF

•MF-H VariAres (CH120/R145) (RF/R2F/LRF)

•Clear Wheels: Unicorno II
•MF-H Blitz ___ (100/CH120) (RF/R2F)

Note: this doesnt mean i want blitz to be on the top -tier list for attack its just an example... what i want is there to be a top 3 for every typeinstead of just the top 2...

Th!nk already touched on this, but the top-tier list is, in theory, only supposed to list the absolute best of the best. While Blitz is still an amazing attack wheel, it is simply outclassed by our other resident right-spin attacker Flash.

Just to give you an idea, if VariAres didn't exist, then the Attack section could theoretically only consist of a single entry (Flash) since it really is that much better than Blitz.

(Sep. 29, 2012  10:12 AM)abrakadabralaka Wrote: slyx if that's the case then it probably won't do too well in today's meta with E230's ability to nullify destabilisation.

Does anyone think killerken dragoon should be on the list, because Ingulit must have left it out for a reason . IMO it should be in balance

Your point about E230 stopping destabilization is a great point, one that I hadn't actually thought of! I've always been a fan of Gravity BD145MF, though with the meta shifting from 230/TH170 for defense to E230 it will probably have trouble.

Angry answered this question perfectly: I didn't add it just because there isn't enough testing/tournament representation yet. In my list I mentioned that Dragooon is an amazing wheel and that there is some promising testing going on with it, and Killerken Dragooon is one of the things I'm keeping my eye on.

So, I already said this, but someone should consider either making a thread for Gravity BD145RDF or necroing the old thread if it exists since these tests are proving very promising. I actually personally prefer Gravity greatly to Meteo due to its versatility, and I can very much see a custom like that being on a tier list if more testing follows the trend in this thread. If someone makes a new thread or necros an old one they should quote all the posts in this thread about the combo in the other thread since it is very relevant information.
Before I post any comments on what other people have been talking about, I'll be conducting a lot of testing. Here's my list of what needs to be tested:
  • Killerken Killerken
  • SA165 Defense
  • SA165 Stamina
  • Duo 160PD/D
  • Meteo W2D
  • Destroy vs. Guardian BD145RDF
  • GP BD145RDF
  • SWD
I'll be working on most of this myself, but feel free to test what you can as well. And if you think of anything else which needs to be tested, let me know, and I'll add it to the list.

My one request right now is for SWD testing, particularly 145-height SWD vs. WD. In the Sharp Wide Defense Discussion thread, all four testers results corroborate the idea that SWD is at least on par with WD in terms of Stamina on 145-heights.
I can test Gravity Perseus BD145RDF, and Meteo W2D. What should I test against though? Stamina?
Just tested out this combo, Just 10 matches done, but can anyone else test it again it is MFL Flash Escolpio H145 XF The results and everything are below-

Beyblade Modes

MFL Flash Escolpio H145 XF vs. MFL Duo Aquario BD145 CS
Flash Escolpio- 4 Wins - OS,OS,KO,KO.
Duo Aquario- 6 wins - OS,KO,KO,OS,KO,KO.

1 Tie redone.

Flash lost because it was self KOing itself but i think it would be a good combo if it is used by a person who knows how to control XF.

MFL Flash Escolpio H145 XF vs. MFC Duo Aquario 230 MB
Flash Escolpio- 7 Wins - KO,OS,KO,OS,KO,KO,KO.
Duo Aquario- 3 wins - KO,KO,OS.

1 Tie redone

It showed good results against balance types well actually i did not expect this but it showed to be useful against balance types.

MFL Flash Escolpio H145 XF vs. MFH Blitz Unicorno 100 RF
Flash Escolpio- 2 Wins - KO,OS.
Blitz Unicorno - 8 Wins - KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO.

1 Tie redone

This was a horrifying result i did not expect this to happen but the main problem was that XF made the bey always tornado stalling and Blitz always took the chance to KO Flash as it ( flash) was always or mostly on the borders of the stadium.

I actually think this is a good combo we have to see if it is better with RF/R2F or XF so can people test this combo agains combos like-

Killereken Dragoon CH120 LRF
Killereken Dragoon DF105 LRF
Diablo Kerbecs BD145 RF/R2F
Dang, I could test a good number of combos on your list, Kei, but I have no good BeyLaunchers. Once I do get one (and getting a 74 on that last Georgia Studies test probably prolonged that for a while...), I can test SWD, LDG BD145RDF/MF, Duo 160D, and Gravity Perseus BD145RDF.
(Sep. 30, 2012  2:50 PM)Anchor Wrote: I can test Gravity Perseus BD145RDF, and Meteo W2D. What should I test against though? Stamina?

gravity desperately needs more tests against Dragooon to solidify it's status as a Dragooon Zombie Counter. we have fairly conclusive tests against Reviser Dragooon SA165 EWD, so maybe testing against Dragooon Dragooon BD145 RDF/MF would be good, if you have the parts

I wish I did, but I don't have Dragooon yet. I can test against most top tier stamina combos, if that's helpful.
I'm starting to feel that Dragooon is becoming even more of an important piece in out game, and it's getting very difficult to categorize all the different combos you could make with it, which all have some element of spin equalization.

I feel that combos like Dragooon BD145RDF and Dragooon SA165EWD are way to different to be catergorized in the same general spin equalization category. Perhaps there could be subdivisions in each type, for spin equalizers, based on the general purpose of it. It's sort of hard for me to explain it so let me show you a bit of a slab drab mock:


Classic: Metal Face/Metal Face-Heavy Flash Escolpio/Orion/Pisces CH120/125/130/AD145/GB145/H145 RF...
Metal Face/Metal Face-Heavy VariAres CH120/R145 RF/R2F/LRF
Metal Face/Metal Face-Heavy Blitz Unicorno II 100/CH120 RF/R2F

Spin EQ: MSF/MSF-H Dragooon ______ DF105LRF
MSF/MSF-H Dragooon ______ BD145MF
MSF/MSF-H Dragooon ______ CH120XF


Classic: Metal Face-Heavy Duo Aquario/Bull/Cancer/Kerbecs BD145/TH170 CS/RB/RDF/RF/RS
Metal Face-Heavy Death Aquario/Bull/Kerbecs BD145/TH170 CS/RB/RDF/RF/RS
Metal Face-Heavy Diablo Kerbecs/Unicorno II BD145 CS/RB/RDF/RF/RS

Spin EQ: MSF/MSF-H Dragooon ______ BD145RDF


Classic: Phantom Aquario/Bull/Cancer/Cygnus 85/AD145/BD145/TH170/230 D/EDS/EWD/SD/SWD/WD
Duo Aquario/Bull/Cancer/Cygnus 85/AD145/BD145/TH170/230 D/EDS/EWD/SD/SWD/WD

Spin EQ: MSF/MSF-H Dragooon _______ SA164EWD.....

Metal Face-Heavy Duo Aquario/Cancer/Cygnus 230MB

As you can see, I just modified Kei's original list, just to show you what I mean (not to improve on the paritcular combination of the list) and its pretty obvious that I have poor list organization skills, but you get what I'm trying to do. What do you guys think? Should we do that or should we create a separate category for Spin Equalizers and then split it up into 3 types?
Meow:I think creating a separate category of spin equalizers then classifying then according to their movement would be best because IMO their in a class of their own. Take MSF/MSF-H Dragooon _______ SA165(5 not 4)EWD as an example, it cannot OS other stamina types like Duo Bull 160PD does, but it equalizes the spin and OS the other combo's by a huge amount of rotations.

Kei: I can test both Meteo W2D and GP BD145RDF. Should I test them against stamina or defense? Or both.

I also heard that Death has this strange ability to win against spin stealers.
Ultra Wrote:Because for some reason Death has a strange immunity to combos which steal spin. Also Phantom is really overrated imo. Duo is much more worthwhile.
Maybe we keep Death on Defense because of this?
... You mean stick something on defense because of a property based on it's stamina when it gets solidly thumped by attack? No I don't think that's good reasoning.

For now I think we can stick Spin Stealers in stamina or balance appropriately - stamina if that's all they do, balance if they do something else as well.

Anyway, for the time being can we focus on what needs to be added, rather than changing the format?
Once the next update is done, then we can discuss any structural changes which will take a lot of time to convince Kei and others to do.
(Oct. 01, 2012  11:14 AM)th!nk Wrote: ... You mean stick something on defense because of a property based on it's stamina when it gets solidly thumped by attack? No I don't think that's good reasoning.
I think it still should be kept on somehow because other than its immunity to spin stealers it also does quite well against Variares.
test results (Click to View)
Other users did better than that IIRC, but either way Variares is basically extinct at this point.

By the way, could you please use the proper quote function so quoted text can be traced back to its origin rather than needing to be searched?

If anything, it would go on stamina and even there, it's very questionable.
although Death has a niche as a "Lefty-Killer," it really doesn't offer much else. based on current tests, MF-H GP BD145 RDF can pretty much counter left-spin on it's own (although it still needs to be tested against LDD/G variants to be a complete counter) while being able to hold it's ground against right spin stamina and defense customs as well. Gravity is a perfect example of a Wheel that has niche capabilities while also offering necessary win-rates against standard top-tier combinations.

...i realize that i've been a GP fanboy of late, but man its performance in my own and others' tests is really awe-worthy, in the light of how light and outdated it is as a metal wheel!
So since MF-H Gravity Perseus can counter Meteo and Dragoon Dragoon/L-Drago Guardian BD145RDF can do what Meteo does and take hits from attackers too , I don't think Meteo is needed in the list anymore. We already have 3 Spin-Equalizing wheels so I don't think Meteo can be considered "the best or even one of the best" anymore.
I am wondering how CS can get more win than RDF facing an attack type? You also haven't stated the wins, whether they were OS or KO. Can you specify the wins & losses in the result? Thanks.
Stamina advantage I suppose wpardin. RDF can be outspun by a hard-hitting Attack Type on RF.
CS is too easy to be KOed. Now, nobody uses CS against attack types. I am saying abt Jakarta's metagame since a lot of people use Flash & Diablo. RDF or RB are the way to go.
Ah Flash... I'm,way behind, so CS is nearing outclass level? Compared to RDF and RB?
CS is still being used but not in a defense setup.
Quote: -Inguilt:
•I heavily, HEAVILY considered adding Metal Flat to the list of tips for the L-Drago custom seeing as I've seen that custom do great things, but there isn't enough formal testing on these forums for that to happen. If anyone else wants it added, they should post some test results!

So I decided to test this combo ot and guess what this combo had really good results... Smile

Testing was done by me and Sharven12
L-Drago Guardian BD145MF lauched by me rest lauched by him.
Standard procedure.
Attack Tests:
Anti-Attack Tests:
Stamina Tests:
Balance Tests:
Proof of parts:
from these tests I have mainly noticed that it doesnt do well at all with stamina types, but with the rest it seems to do fine.. Smile
I feel it would be helpful if you had the tips and tracks in perfered order instead of alphabetical order
just my two cents
A good balance type is storm aquario gb145 wd and another is thermal bull and the track from trmlpicses i think its called t125 and the tip is sd ps dont use a metal face bolt
(Oct. 08, 2012  12:31 AM)Nemesisbey327 Wrote: A good balance type is storm aquario gb145 wd and another is thermal bull and the track from trmlpicses i think its called t125 and the tip is sd ps dont use a metal face bolt

Not even close. Those are horrible. Do not make these suggestions without testing against top tier combos to back up your claim...
(Oct. 07, 2012  10:05 PM)Hiry45 Wrote: I feel it would be helpful if you had the tips and tracks in perfered order instead of alphabetical order
just my two cents

There is no preferred order. Generally where multiple parts are listed for the same other parts now, they are better in different situations rather than one being better than the other (otherwise we'd hesitate to include a part because it is directly outclassed by another).
In case anyone missed it, we have a new official competitive list! Check it out and post any comments/critiques/concerns here, it's all valuable input!

Gameboysuperman, those are some awesome test results, many thanks! I know a few people who will be excited to see those!