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MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion

Dec. 19, 2012  12:55 PM
 
I think we need to rev up this thread regularly so we can find new Competitive combos because we are far back.
Tired
Dec. 19, 2012  1:15 PM
 
(Dec. 19, 2012  12:55 PM)Blader Phantom Wrote: I think we need to rev up this thread regularly so we can find new Competitive combos because we are far back.
Tired

I do agree with this. Some is the new syndromes need to be tested. Killerken and Balro especially. I noticed last night how good wyvang & killerken syndrome together really nice
Dec. 19, 2012  1:17 PM
 
Including Girago and Bahamdia which when paired up with Pegasis does great. But we need more tests to say this is top- tier. If your free Dark, try posting a BB- 10 Wyvang discussion! Wink
Dec. 19, 2012  1:25 PM
 
(Dec. 19, 2012  1:17 PM)Blader Phantom Wrote: Including Girago and Bahamdia which when paired up with Pegasis does great. But we need more tests to say this is top- tier. If your free Dark, try posting a BB- 10 Wyvang discussion! Wink

Ill see what I can do. I'm busy today
Dec. 19, 2012  6:28 PM
 
I can purchase 2/3 0G Beys from the range of Ifraid, Dragooon, Revizer, and the Synchrome Set to test in BB-10. Which one would you like me to buy and test? I can have them next year during Feb or so, I am very busy and away from my bey gears Smile
Dec. 19, 2012  9:40 PM
 
The most important thing that needs updating right now is the place Synchroms should take in the list. Right now all we have is Reviser Reviser for defense and Reviser Dragooon for stamina, and lord knows there are a lot more that can and should be added. Let me go over a few to give an idea what I mean.

For defense, I think the following chrome wheels should be considered/tested:
* Reviser
* Saramanda
* Killerken
* Gargole
* Dragooon
* Genbull (?)
* Orojya (?)
* Wyvang (?)

For the spin-stealer Dragooon combo, some other chrome wheels should be CONSIDERED:
* Reviser (still my preference)
* Gargole (this is a really good alternative; Dragooon and Gargole have great synergy IMO)
* Saramanda (not my favorite, but it works)
* Dragooon (again, not my favorite)
* Orojya (I like this a decent bit, actually)
* Killerken (this should work in theory, but I don't have it to test it)
* Wyvang (?)

This is just a start, and this only covers a small portion of the options available through the Synchrom system. Right now the most important job IMO is figuring out where on the tier list each Synchrom belongs, so testing of that would be extremely helpful.
Dec. 19, 2012  9:47 PM
 
Ingulit: Possibly add Genbull to your 2nd list? It's got pretty good balance like Orojya, apparently.
Dec. 19, 2012  11:13 PM
 
Ingulit even after I had Killerken it took me a while before I started using it, but now its a favorite as the bottom wheel. Been using Killerken Genbull and Killerken Dragoon. We do need to get testing going along w comparative testing like reviser dragoon and killerken dragoon vs the same opponents...
Dec. 19, 2012  11:46 PM
 
Ingulit: Ill be able to do most of this testing after Friday. Im off work for 10 days. So this list will be my priorit. Oroja shouldn't be used. I personally never liked it. Wyvang is good. Genbull has awesome stamina. KillerKen Dragoon is superior to Revizer Dragoon. KillerKen has better stamina along with more grinding ability.
Dec. 20, 2012  12:40 AM
 
We need to replace MF-H L-Drago Guardian/Destroy BD145 RDF with MSF-H ______ Dragooon BD145 RDF. It is quite clear that it does better. We just need to find what works best on the bottom.
Killerken Dragooon DF105 LRF needs to be added as well. I'm a bit unsure about what type it would be considered, since it is basically anti-attack, attack, and spin equalizing morphed into one.
Dec. 20, 2012  1:01 AM
 
I think most of us knew that even when we updated the list last time, we just need more testing on that bottom wheel, though the combination's viability vs other Dragooon setups does need to be investigated.

I suspect this BB-10 CC list may take a back seat to the development of a Zero-G one, unless there is sufficient discussion and testing for it, most people testing to get something done will likely test for Zero G, given how overdue a CC list is for that. Still, if enough people contribute, we can likely manage to get both going at once (and hopefully that lovely new face prompts people to do so!)

I haven't checked the Killerken Dragooon thread for a while (and I'm also a little curious if something like Gargole could replace killerken on it?), last I did it needed testing from more people.
Dec. 20, 2012  8:24 AM
 
Yeah Dark is right. I prefer Killerken Dragooon over Reaviser Dragooon. In my preference, I think we need to update the Attack list as well. Alot of new Zero - G beys came out with respectable smash. Some like Pegasis Dragooon, Pegasis Bahamdia, Gryph,Girago and more wheels can KO Reviser with at least 40-60%. (From what I have seen. For now, I am really curious to see how Wyvang and Genbull perform!
Dec. 20, 2012  4:23 PM
 
Since Ingulit provided the list to give everyone a starting place for Defense Synchroms, I figured I would follow up and do a similar list for Attack and Stamina.

For attack we need to of course find the best, but the main priority is finding one that gives reason to use instead of Flash.
  • Pegasis
  • Begirados
  • Phoenic
  • Gryph
  • Balro (?)
  • Girago
  • Bahamdia

For stamina, I believe it needs to be able to hang with Duo 230, and Duo W145 tier combos. I have built a lot of combos lately that did very well against one of those but did not do well against the other. Also, I don't think Phantom really even needs to be tested against (unless someone has it and not Duo) because in my experience the shear weight of most Synchroms are enough to KO it. So if someone does test against Phantom we need to pay close attention to the KOs vs OS.
  • Killerken
  • Gargole
  • Genbull
  • Oroyja
  • Goreim
  • Bahamdia (mainly Synchromed with itself)
  • Balro (someone said it had great balance)
  • Wyvang (probably too heavy, but no one has tried it yet)

Another list I would like to throw out there is one that I personally use, which is a list of substitute Chrome Wheels. They are my "goto" Wheels that have good all around properties, and are good to use in a lot of combos in place of Chrome Wheels that you might not own. (example: if you dont have 2 Revisers, a good substitute is Saramanda Reviser)
  • Killerken (great weight distro and balance, grinding, good stamina, minor smash)
  • Saramanda (IMO, this is the jack of all trades master of none, decent smash, decent stamina, heavy, decent defense)
  • Gargole (outward weight distro, good stamina, good defense, minor smash)
Dec. 21, 2012  10:15 AM
 
IMO, I have not seen Pegasis working good in ____Pegasis but I have seen it working good in Pegasis___. I personally love Phantom myself but it has too much recoil which makes most (if not all) the synchroms KO it.
Dec. 21, 2012  1:25 PM
 
I will start putting a dent into the stamina category today. Ill be testing various heights against duo 230 PD.
Dec. 22, 2012  3:30 PM
 
Thanks fortrying to test combos. Seriously, I have been thinking to add Inguilt's Phantom Cygnus 85MF combo for Balance as it even got a 50% winrate against Duo 230MB combo.
Dec. 23, 2012  5:07 PM
 
Duo 230 D seems to be synchrom stamina type's kryptonite, so I thought I'd try to find a synchrom that could beat it. I didn't quite find one, but I found something promising
MSF Orojya Gargole SA165 D vs Duo Gasher 230 D
Gargole:11 Wins(All OS)
Duo:13 Wins(All OS)
3 Ties
Notes: It really depended on who lost balance first. The bey that lost balance first always lost, save one or two fluke incidents. I had to use a MSF because I am over 400 miles away from home, and didn't pack any standard Stone Faces. Another thing to note was the condition of my D's. When I used my newer one on Gargole, it had a 67% win rate. When I used the older one on Gargole for the other half of rounds, it only had about a 42% win rate. Those variables considered, I definitley think someone else should try this with 2 D's of the same wear and a standard Stone Face. Of course, Duo W145 WD tests are needed as well, and I will have those today or tomorrow.
Edit:Never mind
Dec. 29, 2012  4:41 AM
 
Here are some much need defense comparisons. I'm on my phone and won't have access to a computer for a few days, so sorry if there isn't enough detail. And I'll respond to things as best I can.


MSF-H-Reviser Reviser BD145RDF vs. MF-Flash Orion S130R2F
RR always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
RR: 7 (3 OS, 4 KO)
Flash: 13 (0 OS, 13 KO)
RR Win %: 35.0%


MSF-H-Gargole Reviser BD145RDF vs. MF-Flash Orion S130R2F
GR always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
GR: 11 (8 OS, 3 KO)
Flash: 9 (0 OS, 9 KO)
GR Win %: 55.0%


MSF-H-Reviser Gargole BD145RDF vs. MF-Flash Orion S130R2F
RG always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
RG: 11 (8 OS, 3 KO)
Flash: 9 (0 OS, 9 KO)
RG Win %: 55.0%


MSF-H-Wyvang Reviser BD145RDF vs. MF-Flash Orion S130R2F
WR always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
WR: 11 (6 OS, 5 KO)
Flash: 9 (0 OS, 9 KO)
WR Win %: 55.0%


MSF-H-Reviser Wyvang BD145RDF vs. MF-Flash Orion S130R2F
RW always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
RW: 11 (7 OS, 4 KO)
Flash: 9 (0 OS, 9 KO)
RW Win %: 55.0%


MSF-H-Gargole Wyvang BD145RDF vs. MF-Flash Orion S130R2F
GW always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
GW: 11 (7 OS, 4 KO)
Flash: 9 (0 OS, 9 KO)
GW Win %: 55.0%


MSF-H-Wyvang Gargole BD145RDF vs. MF-Flash Orion S130R2F
WG always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
WG: 12 (3 OS, 9 KO)
Flash: 8 (0 OS, 8 KO)
WG Win %: 60.0%


MSF-H-Reviser Reviser BD145RDF vs. MF-Flash Orion S130R2F
RR always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
RR: 8 (5 OS, 3 KO)
Flash: 12 (0 OS, 12 KO)
RR Win %: 40.0%

I did the second set of Reviser Reviser tests just to make sure the wear on my RDF and Flash did not have much affect on results. My Flash was a brand new Hyperblade. My R2F was fairly new from my Samurai Pegasis, and my RDF was a few weeks old. Again, I'm posting this all on my phone, so sorry if there are any mistakes.
Dec. 29, 2012  5:10 AM
 
How lovely it is to see Wyvang tested by another member! It is definitley good.

I am surprised that Gargole does better than Revizer for you. I have more difficulty KOing Saramanda. Awesome tests though!
Dec. 29, 2012  7:01 AM
 
As for stamina, I think Killerken Wyvang is promising. All we need to know is what stamina setup works best with rhis. Thanks to Shinobu's thread he has found out it woeks good with tall setups.
Feb. 11, 2013  2:19 AM
 
Here are some defense comparisons between Revizer Revizer, Killerken Killerken, and Gargole Gargole.
MF-H Flash Orion GB145 R2F vs MSF Revizer Revizer BD145 CS
Flash:11 Wins(All KO)
Revizer:9 Wins(5 OS,4 KO)
1 Tie
Revizer Win Rate:45%

MF-H Flash Orion GB145 R2F vs MSF Killerken Killerken BD145 CS
Flash:10 Wins(All KO)
Killerken:10 Wins(8 OS,2 KO)
2 Ties
Killerken Win Rate:50%

MF-H Flash Orion GB145 R2F vs MSF Gargole Gargole BD145 CS
Flash:14 Wins(All KO)
Gargole:6 Wins(3 OS,3 KO)
2 Ties
Gargole Win Rate:30%
I am surprised that Gargole did so bad. My MSF is a little looser on Gargole, so maybe that's why?
Feb. 11, 2013  4:21 AM
 
(Feb. 11, 2013  2:19 AM)ShinobuXD Wrote: Here are some defense comparisons between Revizer Revizer, Killerken Killerken, and Gargole Gargole.
MF-H Flash Orion GB145 R2F vs MSF Revizer Revizer BD145 CS
Flash:11 Wins(All KO)
Revizer:9 Wins(5 OS,4 KO)
1 Tie
Revizer Win Rate:45%

MF-H Flash Orion GB145 R2F vs MSF Killerken Killerken BD145 CS
Flash:10 Wins(All KO)
Killerken:10 Wins(8 OS,2 KO)
2 Ties
Killerken Win Rate:50%

MF-H Flash Orion GB145 R2F vs MSF Gargole Gargole BD145 CS
Flash:14 Wins(All KO)
Gargole:6 Wins(3 OS,3 KO)
2 Ties
Gargole Win Rate:30%
I am surprised that Gargole did so bad. My MSF is a little looser on Gargole, so maybe that's why?

Ohhh, thank you thank you, these are very valuable tests! This is the kind of thing we need to figure out exactly what Synchroms are "top-tier" for defense. Since the results are going to be really close, what we need the most is more people performing identical tests to these to see if we can find a trend; if I had more than one Killerken/Gargole I'd help myself, but I don't yet Unhappy

Also, thank you for bumping this thread, because now I have the excuse to ask this question: Does anything need to be majorly changed on the current top-tier list? Anything added or removed? Any combos that are doing surprisingly well in tournaments or test results (I'm looking at you, Genbull Genbull)?
Feb. 11, 2013  4:35 AM
 
Ingulit:
Add
Spoiler (Click to View)
Feb. 11, 2013  4:37 AM
 
Wyvang should go on for attack IMO. Zancrow, KainHighwind, and I have done tests showing it to be at least as good as Flash, if not better.
I also think Killerken Dragooon DF105 LRF and MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85 MF should be considered as well.
Dark: Problem is, no one is testing SR200, TB, Killerken Dragooon SA165 EWD, and BWD. I would, except I don't own them, minus Killerken Dragooon. And on SP230- it is not very good for defense. Definitley worse than E23 IMO.
Feb. 11, 2013  4:44 AM
 
(Feb. 11, 2013  4:37 AM)ShinobuXD Wrote: Wyvang should go on for attack IMO. Zancrow, KainHighwind, and I have done tests showing it to be at least as good as Flash, if not better.
Dark: Problem is, no one is testing SR200, TB, Killerken Dragooon SA165 EWD, and BWD. I would, except I don't own them, minus Killerken Dragooon. And on SP230- it is not very good for defense. Definitley worse than E23 IMO.

I will be getting around to the TB & SP230 testing. I like SP230 personally. Just gotta find the right combo for it. Also Ive topped several events will Killerken Dragoon SA165 EWD. BWD does have some testing behind it. Blitz did a lot of testing on it in the testing thread.
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