Burst Classic - New Format Feedback & Discussion

(Jan. 15, 2019  2:10 PM)TL14 Wrote: I'm more than happy that we finally have an official WBO Beyblade Burst Limited/Classic Format. In our regional BeyClub (the Blackwater Guardians)  we already had a Limited Format for a while now, but I personally think ours was not as good as the official one is now. I would be very happy if I can promote the WBO Beyblade Burst Classic Format on my YouTube channel. I think many people would be interested. 😊

My critique towards Burst Classic:
I really like it but I am for unbanning of L2 and for a banning of Eternal, Octa and Deathscyther (Takara Tomy) and maybe Gaianon (Hasbro). Other than that I like it a lot and I would be happy to host a tournament in this format.

Here's our old Blackwater Guardian Limited Format Banlist:

[spoiler:]
"
Layers:
Deathscyther
Dark Deathscyther
All God Layers
All ChoZ Layers
All ChoZ Awakening Layers

Disks:
All Core Disks (& Frames)
Outer
Zenith

Drivers:
All Dash/Prime ( ' ) Drivers
Atomic
Bearing
Eternal
Xtend+
Octa
"

Note: We should have probably included Hasbro Beys in the ruling. 😅

[/spoiler]

Why hasbro G2? It's a solid defence type, but it doesn't have that good stamina. Also L2 made it a ton harder to use a lot of beys because of its heavy weight and reverse rotation.
Huh, with Xtreme' and Hunter ' being legal, people can now also use worn out Valkyrie Layers competitively as well
(Jan. 15, 2019  3:04 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: Huh, with Xtreme' and Hunter ' being legal, people can now also use worn out Valkyrie Layers competitively as well

V2 T/G X' is better Choice I guees
Wait I think Dragoon Is the Strongest bey out there. If Launched with a Proto Launcher
(Jan. 15, 2019  2:10 PM)TL14 Wrote: I'm more than happy that we finally have an official WBO Beyblade Burst Limited/Classic Format. In our regional BeyClub (the Blackwater Guardians)  we already had a Limited Format for a while now, but I personally think ours was not as good as the official one is now. I would be very happy if I can promote the WBO Beyblade Burst Classic Format on my YouTube channel. I think many people would be interested. 😊

My critique towards Burst Classic:
I really like it but I am for unbanning of L2 and for a banning of Eternal, Octa and Deathscyther (Takara Tomy) and maybe Gaianon (Hasbro). Other than that I like it a lot and I would be happy to host a tournament in this format.

Here's our old Blackwater Guardian Limited Format Banlist:


Interesting feedback for sure, and we appreciate the input! Glad to hear you're liking what we've come up with as well!

Would you mind explaining some of the bans and unbans you've suggested? Would be interesting to hear why you're recommending these, given you seem to have experience with a Classic ruleset :)
(Jan. 15, 2019  5:50 PM)~Mana~ Wrote:
(Jan. 15, 2019  2:10 PM)TL14 Wrote: I'm more than happy that we finally have an official WBO Beyblade Burst Limited/Classic Format. In our regional BeyClub (the Blackwater Guardians)  we already had a Limited Format for a while now, but I personally think ours was not as good as the official one is now. I would be very happy if I can promote the WBO Beyblade Burst Classic Format on my YouTube channel. I think many people would be interested. 😊

My critique towards Burst Classic:
I really like it but I am for unbanning of L2 and for a banning of Eternal, Octa and Deathscyther (Takara Tomy) and maybe Gaianon (Hasbro). Other than that I like it a lot and I would be happy to host a tournament in this format.

Here's our old Blackwater Guardian Limited Format Banlist:


Interesting feedback for sure, and we appreciate the input! Glad to hear you're liking what we've come up with as well!

Would you mind explaining some of the bans and unbans you've suggested? Would be interesting to hear why you're recommending these, given you seem to have experience with a Classic ruleset Smile

(Jan. 15, 2019  5:50 PM)~Mana~ Wrote:
(Jan. 15, 2019  2:10 PM)TL14 Wrote: I'm more than happy that we finally have an official WBO Beyblade Burst Limited/Classic Format. In our regional BeyClub (the Blackwater Guardians)  we already had a Limited Format for a while now, but I personally think ours was not as good as the official one is now. I would be very happy if I can promote the WBO Beyblade Burst Classic Format on my YouTube channel. I think many people would be interested. 😊

My critique towards Burst Classic:
I really like it but I am for unbanning of L2 and for a banning of Eternal, Octa and Deathscyther (Takara Tomy) and maybe Gaianon (Hasbro). Other than that I like it a lot and I would be happy to host a tournament in this format.

Here's our old Blackwater Guardian Limited Format Banlist:


Interesting feedback for sure, and we appreciate the input! Glad to hear you're liking what we've come up with as well!

Would you mind explaining some of the bans and unbans you've suggested? Would be interesting to hear why you're recommending these, given you seem to have experience with a Classic ruleset Smile

Thank you, Mana, for the kind reply. 🙂 I'm sorry for the kinda "rushed" reply from before. I was in a hurry and didn't have much time.

I know that Lost Longinus is very popular among fans and that's not only because of the anime but also because of it's power and viability in many different setups and playing styles in real life.
I can imagine the latter of which was probably the reason it got banned. While I totally understand this decision and I support it, I would still like to say, even tho I can't speak for everyone, that banning the only good Left Spin layer (besides Takara Dragoon S) may hold some new players, that have never played in a Limited/Classic Format before, back from trying it out or attending a Burst Classic Format Tournament. Maybe L2 can be banned only on a few Drivers that make it op. That way L2 can stay while not being overused.

In my personal opinion Eternal deserves a ban because it is a better Revolve since it's more difficult to destabilize and has higher LAD, at least from my experience.

I am not sure about Octa, because I don't have it myself, but it seems to give Beys a lot more weight which would ruin the concept of making a format for lighter Beys and it could give some players, that can afford it, an upperhand.

I personally think that Single Layer Deathscyther (from Takara Tomy) should be banned, because it would probably dominate to some degree, since there are not that many counters to it, as long as it's teeth are in a good condition.

As I said, about Gaianon G2 I'm not sure, because I haven't tested it yet. But from what I've seen so far, it's strong defense might be a problem for some Attack Types.

I hope this was helpful. Smile
Sincerely, TL14
(Jan. 15, 2019  7:06 PM)TL14 Wrote:
(Jan. 15, 2019  5:50 PM)~Mana~ Wrote: Interesting feedback for sure, and we appreciate the input! Glad to hear you're liking what we've come up with as well!

Would you mind explaining some of the bans and unbans you've suggested? Would be interesting to hear why you're recommending these, given you seem to have experience with a Classic ruleset Smile

(Jan. 15, 2019  5:50 PM)~Mana~ Wrote: Interesting feedback for sure, and we appreciate the input! Glad to hear you're liking what we've come up with as well!

Would you mind explaining some of the bans and unbans you've suggested? Would be interesting to hear why you're recommending these, given you seem to have experience with a Classic ruleset Smile

Thank you, Mana, for the kind reply. 🙂 I'm sorry for the kinda "rushed" reply from before. I was in a hurry and didn't have much time.

I know that Lost Longinus is very popular among fans and that's not only because of the anime but also because of it's power and viability in many different setups and playing styles in real life.
I can imagine the latter of which was probably the reason it got banned. While I totally understand this decision and I support it, I would still like to say, even tho I can't speak for everyone, that banning the only good Left Spin layer (besides Takara Dragoon S) may hold some new players, that have never played in a Limited/Classic Format before, back from trying it out or attending a Burst Classic Format Tournament. Maybe L2 can be banned only on a few Drivers that make it op. That way L2 can stay while not being overused.

In my personal opinion Eternal deserves a ban because it is a better Revolve since it's more difficult to destabilize and has higher LAD, at least from my experience.

I am not sure about Octa, because I don't have it myself, but it seems to give Beys a lot more weight which would ruin the concept of making a format for lighter Beys and it could give some players, that can afford it, an upperhand.

I personally think that Single Layer Deathscyther (from Takara Tomy) should be banned, because it would probably dominate to some degree, since there are not that many counters to it, as long as it's teeth are in a good condition.

As I said, about Gaianon G2 I'm not sure, because I haven't tested it yet. But from what I've seen so far, it's strong defense might be a problem for some Attack Types.

I hope this was helpful. Smile
Sincerely, TL14

Yeah, but there needs to be some counters to attack types or else the game would be attack would be unfairly dominating. For a defence bey to be to OverP, it also needs to posses great stamina, a department where G2 fails in.
YESSSSS TIME FOR Wb.G.Ds!!! NEW WOLBORG METAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Also can we allow Spiral Treptune T4? It doesnt have its gimmick and its honestly not even applicable anymore. Not the TT version, Just hasbro.
(Jan. 15, 2019  11:11 PM)LeonidasKerbeus Wrote: YESSSSS TIME FOR Wb.G.Ds!!! NEW WOLBORG METAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Also can we allow Spiral Treptune T4? It doesnt have its gimmick and its honestly not even applicable anymore. Not the TT version, Just hasbro.

What? You see, T4 isnt thst good for god standards, but for dual layers, it's too strong.
Is Deathscyther really at risk for dominating considering the options available?
(Yesterday  1:46 AM)AndyHG Wrote: Is Deathscyther really at risk for dominating considering the options available?

Not sure. If its anything like the hasbro one, attack can pretty much ruin its chances to dominate.
To me, Octa could potentially stay. It may have a high amount of weight, but it focuses that near the ground rather than top down like a heavy layer would work. This (if I remember correctly) increases the burst risk of a combo. It also doesn't perform as well for same spin or opposite spin compared to other drivers, but I'm basing this off of its performance from standard format, so it may be different in Classic.
(Jan. 13, 2019  7:57 AM)Wombat Wrote: Still have a few adjustments I'd like to see made to the banlist, like the unbanning of (some) Turbo Layers, tW/W3 (which I think we might have just forgotten when listing God Layers that were bad) and maybe 11 and 13, but we should probably wait on testing/tournament results before making any adjustments for the moment.

cant wait to sweep the first burst classic tournament with no longer alive spryzen lol

Tbh, I think W3 may be too good to ban. Maybe not because of the stamina. Ps. I am genuinely scared of that "no longer alive" spryzen combo. But I got at least some thing that can beat it even though it's the biggest glass cannon ever, haha.
(Jan. 15, 2019  12:20 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: Were Duo Apollos, Duo Artemis and Duo Eclipse deemed too heavy?

Not necessarily. We just feel they don't really fit into Classic. They're underpowered, but they're still not bad Layers, and it's inclusion could risk distracting from the Single & Dual Layers that we're trying so hard to give a place to thrive, haha.

(Jan. 15, 2019  3:04 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: Huh, with Xtreme' and Hunter ' being legal, people can now also use worn out Valkyrie Layers competitively as well

They can indeed! Though I'd personally assume Valkyrie will remain a stationary attack option in favour of mobile focus on V2 instead.

(Jan. 15, 2019  7:06 PM)TL14 Wrote: I know that Lost Longinus is very popular among fans and that's not only because of the anime but also because of it's power and viability in many different setups and playing styles in real life.
I can imagine the latter of which was probably the reason it got banned. While I totally understand this decision and I support it, I would still like to say, even tho I can't speak for everyone, that banning the only good Left Spin layer (besides Takara Dragoon S) may hold some new players, that have never played in a Limited/Classic Format before, back from trying it out or attending a Burst Classic Format Tournament. Maybe L2 can be banned only on a few Drivers that make it op. That way L2 can stay while not being overused.

In my personal opinion Eternal deserves a ban because it is a better Revolve since it's more difficult to destabilize and has higher LAD, at least from my experience.

I am not sure about Octa, because I don't have it myself, but it seems to give Beys a lot more weight which would ruin the concept of making a format for lighter Beys and it could give some players, that can afford it, an upperhand.

I personally think that Single Layer Deathscyther (from Takara Tomy) should be banned, because it would probably dominate to some degree, since there are not that many counters to it, as long as it's teeth are in a good condition.

As I said, about Gaianon G2 I'm not sure, because I haven't tested it yet. But from what I've seen so far, it's strong defense might be a problem for some Attack Types.

I hope this was helpful. :)
Sincerely, TL14

Thanks for giving your reasoning! :)

I can understand what you mean regarding L2. You're not wrong that it has been banned due to it's power and viability; L2 towards the end of the Dual Layer era (and well into the God era) could basically serve as a catch-all Layer, and there really wasn't a bad way to use it honestly. This ban is still for the best to keep the rest of the format balanced and keep some other Layers viable that it would have otherwise replaced. We'll keep an eye on the L2 situation but, unless newer Drivers make certain other Layers crazily strong, I think keeping L2 away will go more good than harm to this format.

The concern is definitely noted on Eternal. Without tournament data to use as a basis, it's pretty hard to comment on whether Eternal will upset anything yet. That said, Eternal does seem to have slightly less Burst resistance than Revolve in my opinion so, with the increased ability for attack type combinations to work in this format, I'm not tooconcerned at this moment. Something I'll keep an eye on during Saturday's event for sure though!

Octa is understandable, and we're thinking about this one a lot. The drastic amount of weight it adds to a Bey could ruin the point of this Format, but it's also hard to comment as it's not a common part at the moment. It'll become more common when Hasbro's Orichalcum O3 becomes available next month though, which will likely be when it's time to act, as we'll have a reliable way of seeing whether it'll fit within the metagame firsthand.

I'll address Deathscyther in reply to AndyHG below, but I'm not sure it'll be a huge issue overall.

I guess we'll see from experience for G2! Shall try it out this weekend!

(Jan. 15, 2019  11:11 PM)LeonidasKerbeus Wrote: Also can we allow Spiral Treptune T4? It doesnt have its gimmick and its honestly not even applicable anymore. Not the TT version, Just hasbro.

I'ma still say no on this one. As I've said before, I'm already unhappy with God Layers being included at all given that this is "Classic", so I don't particularly want to further this issue. If anything, I'd prefer to go the other way and reduce the list of ones permitted, haha.

(Yesterday  1:46 AM)AndyHG Wrote: Is Deathscyther really at risk for dominating considering the options available?

A noted concern, and something we thought about and tried for ourselves a little. Deathscyther's Burst Resistance isn't the best anyway and, with attack being goaded on quite heavily with how we've planned this out, we think it can avoid the banlist for now! But we'll be keeping an eye on it to see how it handles itself.

I will say though; I feel like TT Deathscyther technically softbans itself due to it's lack of availability and the number of them that people have that already have ruined teeth from when they were used years ago, haha.

(Yesterday  2:12 AM)Dragunix Wrote: To me, Octa could potentially stay. It may have a high amount of weight, but it focuses that near the ground rather than top down like a heavy layer would work. This (if I remember correctly) increases the burst risk of a combo. It also doesn't perform as well for same spin or opposite spin compared to other drivers, but I'm basing this off of its performance from standard format, so it may be different in Classic.

Kei As an experienced owner of Octa, do you have any comments or concerns to add about it's inclusion at all? Would it catastrophically upset the weight balancing? Or would you say the part isn't really a competitive concern even with the added weight?
Looking through, this seems like a well thought out format. I look forward to seeing what combos and brands take the top of the podium for the first few tournaments.
I really like this banlist and ruleset, though I feel like it should be updated to have Jolt' be legal once that releases, and also do the same if the other remaining grip-flat Drivers get Dash variants (Variable, Evolution, Impact maybe???). I also feel like the Duo Artemis/Apollos/Aeclipse Layers would be fine to have legal in this format (especially considering how similar in design Duo Artemis is to Inferno Ifrit and Victory Valkyrie, which are both great attackers for this format, and how these layers would never see competitive play otherwise, lol), but I respect the mentality of "keep this format restricted only to S1-era Layers", so I'm not too bent out of shape over it, haha. Can't wait to try and run this format!
My issue is, the more God stuff added, the more actual "Classic" stuff becomes invalid, which isn't really the point here.

Like, I'm preparing a Classic parts case for this weekend at the moment and looking at these God Layers with so much distaste really, especially after weighing some and seeing they're 3-4 grams heavier than the maximum from the Single/Dual stuff. Regulus weighs in at 12.5g, which is already amusing to see when stuff like Valkyrie and V2 are 8 and 9 respectively, haha. We'll see how that works out, but I won't lie that it's concerning at first glance.

We can think about those Dash Drivers for sure later on, haha.
Wait a minute, with the God Valkyrie Layer allowed, is changing out God Chips permitted?