Burst Classic - New Format Feedback & Discussion

(May. 31, 2019  11:07 PM)Shindog Wrote: Vl’ is now on the winning combo list of possibly the biggest beyblade tournament in 2019 (considering the participants had to win national qualifiers first).  Vl’ made it to the finals and that is just fact, confusing or not.  The primary purpose of Vl/Vl’ seems to be a staller but it can also be used occasionally for attack.  I think that’s great flexibility and a fun driver to play with. There has been videos of “awakened” Vl stalling since a week after wV released.  It took a while to find the right combo and environment to make use of it I guess.

I guess my point is: 

Before deciding on banning or not banning something I think it’s best to carefully consider different ways parts can be used and how they interact with other parts.  Collecting this kind of data takes time and often it will take tournament results.  And things can change over time.

What's funny is just today, besides your message, did I first witness someone using Vl' for tornado stalling on twitter. I had never heard of it before. I do consider carefully consider how parts can be used. This instance is just something I had never heard of before, but now that I have my opinion has changed.

It kinda sucks though. I really like Volcanic as an attack driver and prefer to use it on Legend Spriggan (it has a great shape for the tall driver). The hard part about it was that it is very difficult to master using Volcanic offensive. Now it's become a tornado stalling driver, which defeats how amazing, yet difficult, it is to use for attack.

I'm curious as to how people are launching Volcanic for this strategy and how it becomes "awakened".
(Jun. 01, 2019  3:26 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote:
(May. 31, 2019  11:07 PM)Shindog Wrote: Vl’ is now on the winning combo list of possibly the biggest beyblade tournament in 2019 (considering the participants had to win national qualifiers first).  Vl’ made it to the finals and that is just fact, confusing or not.  The primary purpose of Vl/Vl’ seems to be a staller but it can also be used occasionally for attack.  I think that’s great flexibility and a fun driver to play with. There has been videos of “awakened” Vl stalling since a week after wV released.  It took a while to find the right combo and environment to make use of it I guess.

I guess my point is: 

Before deciding on banning or not banning something I think it’s best to carefully consider different ways parts can be used and how they interact with other parts.  Collecting this kind of data takes time and often it will take tournament results.  And things can change over time.

What's funny is just today, besides your message, did I first witness someone using Vl' for tornado stalling on twitter. I had never heard of it before. I do consider carefully consider how parts can be used. This instance is just something I had never heard of before, but now that I have my opinion has changed.

It kinda sucks though. I really like Volcanic as an attack driver and prefer to use it on Legend Spriggan (it has a great shape for the tall driver). The hard part about it was that it is very difficult to master using Volcanic offensive. Now it's become a tornado stalling driver, which defeats how amazing, yet difficult, it is to use for attack.

I'm curious as to how people are launching Volcanic for this strategy and how it becomes "awakened".

As far as I know, to “awaken” you just keep launching the thing.  But I am not sure.  I have not been successful in “awakening” as far as I can see.
LazerBeamz, can you (or anyone else at that event) talk about how Xt+ was used (or not) at Yami Tournament Episode 5.5: Attack of The Classics from what you were able to see?

We're winding down the experimental period for Burst Classic before we finalize the initial ban list, so additional tournament feedback is very valuable at this stage and I think we should try to compile it here. The same goes for anyone else who has played in a BSC event recently; let us know how it went for you!

For those who didn't see it, here is the comments I made on my experience at BEYBLADE NORTH 2019:

(Jun. 03, 2019  1:10 AM)Kei Wrote: The Burst Classic Metagame
After the trial unbanning of all Dash Drivers at IT’S TIME TO RIP IT! AGAIN did not have a huge effect, I decided to try it again at this event with the addition of a trial unban of Xtend Plus.

Throughout the event there was a lot of random stuff in use as many kids had to borrow parts in order to  participate, but here are a few of the other standout moments and characteristics of the event which I can recall:

  • 1234beyblade vs. bladekid: In the second round bladekid was able to defeat 1234beyblade’s V2.H.X’ with Unicrest on Unite. The viability of defense in BSC has been something I’ve questioned after seeing 1234beyblade go undefeated in our first BSC event a few months ago using V2.H.X’, and how relatively poorly it has done in my testing. But it was nice to see it perform well in a tournament environment.
  • Hasbro Ωcta: Continuing the same train of thought about defense discussed above, I think it is relevant to talk about my use of Hasbro’s Ωcta Driver. In the lead up to this event I had done some testing to try and find a defense type that seemed viable. Obviously, in a tournament environment maybe things like Unicrest or G2 using Unite are better than I am giving them credit for, but in my testing I found G2.G.Ω to be pretty solid. You can still score KOs on it if you shoot really well, but the sheer weight of the combo helps to save it a lot. Hasbro’s Ωcta is a lot more stable than TAKARA-TOMY’s, so I really like how this combo performs. I was able to basically deflect anything 1234beyblade threw at me during the few rounds I used it in the final match. My main concern moving forward would be to see how it performs on Layers with more stamina, but overall I am fine with including it for now at it seems to only pose a threat as part of a defense type. It’s pretty stationary, so I would think that pure stamina Layers would be pretty easily burstable on it.
  • Xtend Plus: I didn’t have any time to test this myself before the event, so I didn’t use it at all. And I don’t think many people used it either, actually. The only usage I can remember is I think henwooja1 who used it on Dragoon Fantom once or twice. I can’t remember the exact matches or outcome, but just like other Dragoon Fantom combos, it seemed inconsistent overall. I need more data, but I’m fine with keeping this unbanned for now.
  • Kei vs. OldSchool™: In the fourth round I was matched up against OldSchool™ and lost to his Wolborg on Eternal using V2.H.X’ 3-2 … lol. This illustrated to me just how crucial ongoing practice is if you want to do well with Attack (I hadn’t launched V2 in several weeks), so even though it can be very good, it is balanced by the skill required to use it.
  • Zephyr’: Initially, I thought that Zephyr’ was balanced by the fact that combos using it still can’t OS top tier stamina combinations … which is true. However, on second thought after this event I’ve come to the painful conclusion that it (and Accel’) probably should be banned due to their high level of versatility. There is very few matches for combinations like Odin Yell Zephyr’ which are unwinnable right now. It outruns attack. Outspins defense and low tier stamina. Has the chance to KO or Burst top tier stamina, which is only really possible due to the greater burst resistance provided by it being a Dash Driver. Over about nine matches to date, I’ve only lost one round with it against A2.K.R. It’s a beast. And its popularity is starting to grow slowly; BladerBeast borrowed my Z’ for his final match and it helped him to win.
  • Zeta’: I used this a few times on V.K.Zt’ in the finals, but couldn’t even get a Burst Finish on VGR lol. I understand that it’s been wreaking havoc in the UK, but it just didn’t do it for me in this matchup. Of course, this is just anecdotal and in my previous testing I was able to find some level of success with it. Regardless however, I don’t see it as a problem unless it is able to consistently burst defense combos. Against mobile attack combinations, it will probably lose. It’s still a jack of all trades, master of none. Happy to hear more opinions on this, but my feeling is that it should be left unbanned for now.
  • It’s interesting to note 1234beyblade’s reliance on defensive Layers on stamina Drivers for the first stage. I guess with a great launch, it’s safer to a degree to stick with these types of combos in the first stage.
(Jun. 12, 2019  8:12 PM)Kei Wrote: LazerBeamz, can you (or anyone else at that event) talk about how Xt+ was used (or not) at Yami Tournament Episode 5.5: Attack of The Classics from what you were able to see?

We're winding down the experimental period for Burst Classic before we finalize the initial ban list, so additional tournament feedback is very valuable at this stage and I think we should try to compile it here. The same goes for anyone else who has played in a BSC event recently; let us know how it went for you!

For those who didn't see it, here is the comments I made on my experience at BEYBLADE NORTH 2019:

(Jun. 03, 2019  1:10 AM)Kei Wrote: The Burst Classic Metagame
After the trial unbanning of all Dash Drivers at IT’S TIME TO RIP IT! AGAIN did not have a huge effect, I decided to try it again at this event with the addition of a trial unban of Xtend Plus.

Throughout the event there was a lot of random stuff in use as many kids had to borrow parts in order to  participate, but here are a few of the other standout moments and characteristics of the event which I can recall:

  • 1234beyblade vs. bladekid: In the second round bladekid was able to defeat 1234beyblade’s V2.H.X’ with Unicrest on Unite. The viability of defense in BSC has been something I’ve questioned after seeing 1234beyblade go undefeated in our first BSC event a few months ago using V2.H.X’, and how relatively poorly it has done in my testing. But it was nice to see it perform well in a tournament environment.
  • Hasbro Ωcta: Continuing the same train of thought about defense discussed above, I think it is relevant to talk about my use of Hasbro’s Ωcta Driver. In the lead up to this event I had done some testing to try and find a defense type that seemed viable. Obviously, in a tournament environment maybe things like Unicrest or G2 using Unite are better than I am giving them credit for, but in my testing I found G2.G.Ω to be pretty solid. You can still score KOs on it if you shoot really well, but the sheer weight of the combo helps to save it a lot. Hasbro’s Ωcta is a lot more stable than TAKARA-TOMY’s, so I really like how this combo performs. I was able to basically deflect anything 1234beyblade threw at me during the few rounds I used it in the final match. My main concern moving forward would be to see how it performs on Layers with more stamina, but overall I am fine with including it for now at it seems to only pose a threat as part of a defense type. It’s pretty stationary, so I would think that pure stamina Layers would be pretty easily burstable on it.
  • Xtend Plus: I didn’t have any time to test this myself before the event, so I didn’t use it at all. And I don’t think many people used it either, actually. The only usage I can remember is I think henwooja1 who used it on Dragoon Fantom once or twice. I can’t remember the exact matches or outcome, but just like other Dragoon Fantom combos, it seemed inconsistent overall. I need more data, but I’m fine with keeping this unbanned for now.
  • Kei vs. OldSchool™: In the fourth round I was matched up against OldSchool™ and lost to his Wolborg on Eternal using V2.H.X’ 3-2 … lol. This illustrated to me just how crucial ongoing practice is if you want to do well with Attack (I hadn’t launched V2 in several weeks), so even though it can be very good, it is balanced by the skill required to use it.
  • Zephyr’: Initially, I thought that Zephyr’ was balanced by the fact that combos using it still can’t OS top tier stamina combinations … which is true. However, on second thought after this event I’ve come to the painful conclusion that it (and Accel’) probably should be banned due to their high level of versatility. There is very few matches for combinations like Odin Yell Zephyr’ which are unwinnable right now. It outruns attack. Outspins defense and low tier stamina. Has the chance to KO or Burst top tier stamina, which is only really possible due to the greater burst resistance provided by it being a Dash Driver. Over about nine matches to date, I’ve only lost one round with it against A2.K.R. It’s a beast. And its popularity is starting to grow slowly; BladerBeast borrowed my Z’ for his final match and it helped him to win.
  • Zeta’: I used this a few times on V.K.Zt’ in the finals, but couldn’t even get a Burst Finish on VGR lol. I understand that it’s been wreaking havoc in the UK, but it just didn’t do it for me in this matchup. Of course, this is just anecdotal and in my previous testing I was able to find some level of success with it. Regardless however, I don’t see it as a problem unless it is able to consistently burst defense combos. Against mobile attack combinations, it will probably lose. It’s still a jack of all trades, master of none. Happy to hear more opinions on this, but my feeling is that it should be left unbanned for now.
  • It’s interesting to note 1234beyblade’s reliance on defensive Layers on stamina Drivers for the first stage. I guess with a great launch, it’s safer to a degree to stick with these types of combos in the first stage.
I used Xtend Plus on Dragoon Fantom for maybe 4 out of my 6 matches(?) and on second thought, I probably could have won all of my matches with this combo alone. LegendV3 also used it on Wolborg Heavy Xtend Plus and HenryGBradford used it on V2 Nine Xtend Plus to some extent. In the top 8 finals match, I used DGF Polish Xtend Plus exclusively, and was able to win the match 5-0 or 5-1. I used it on Wolborg against LegendV3 for a fairly safe combo overall against his deck of V2 Gravity Zeta’, Wolborg Heavy Xtend Plus, and a third combo I can’t remember. In the final match against Yami, I used only used DGF Polish Xtend Plus and was able to win the match 5-2 or 5-3. Overall, Xtend Plus seemed like maybe toooo safe of a combo for the first stage, where your unlikely to battle opponents with specialized combos. Personally, I think this part should remain under a ban as a more powerful version of bearing, but you should hear what LazerBeamz says first.
(Jun. 13, 2019  12:54 AM)Ardmore Bladers Wrote:
(Jun. 12, 2019  8:12 PM)Kei Wrote: LazerBeamz, can you (or anyone else at that event) talk about how Xt+ was used (or not) at Yami Tournament Episode 5.5: Attack of The Classics from what you were able to see?

We're winding down the experimental period for Burst Classic before we finalize the initial ban list, so additional tournament feedback is very valuable at this stage and I think we should try to compile it here. The same goes for anyone else who has played in a BSC event recently; let us know how it went for you!

For those who didn't see it, here is the comments I made on my experience at BEYBLADE NORTH 2019:
I used Xtend Plus on Dragoon Fantom for maybe 4 out of my 6 matches(?) and on second thought, I probably could have won all of my matches with this combo alone. LegendV3 also used it on Wolborg Heavy Xtend Plus and HenryGBradford used it on V2 Nine Xtend Plus to some extent. In the top 8 finals match, I used DGF Polish Xtend Plus exclusively, and was able to win the match 5-0 or 5-1. I used it on Wolborg against LegendV3 for a fairly safe combo overall against his deck of V2 Gravity Zeta’, Wolborg Heavy Xtend Plus, and a third combo I can’t remember. In the final match against Yami, I used only used DGF Polish Xtend Plus and was able to win the match 5-2 or 5-3. Overall, Xtend Plus seemed like maybe toooo safe of a combo for the first stage, where your unlikely to battle opponents with specialized combos. Personally, I think this part should remain under a ban as a more powerful version of bearing, but you should hear what LazerBeamz says first.

Thanks Ardmore Bladers for sharing this. I wasn't able to see all your matches during our Classic Tournament, but sounds like DGF.P.Xt+ can be dangerous. I also think you were able to burst DRF.H.Ch a few times with your DGF.P.Xt+ too, right? (I cant remember if that was during a match or just during a practice). Kei Based on personal testing, I really don't think DGF.P.Xt+ or Xt+would have to great of an impact on the Classic META. DGF.P.Xt+ is easily countered by DGF.S.Qc' and other Left spin Dash driver attack combinations. Even V2.H.H'/O can burst DGF.P.Xt+ in opposite spin. Xt+'s poor burst resistance combined with DGF's poor Burst resistance makes it highly susceptible to bursting in Both Opposite Spin and Same Spin. With the variety of stationary and mobile right spin attack options in the Classic META, Xt+ on right spin layers would also not be a threat due to the high burst risk. I think we saw DGF.P.Xt+ prevail at the tournament because no one was really anticipating it. Especially in Deck format. I think Xt+ would allow for more use and improve the viability of Mobile Left Spin attack combos like DGF.S.X'/Qc'.
I think Xtend+ didn't dominate, because this need some newer other parts. Here is better to ban Dragoon Fantom insead Xtend+, because Xtend+ don't dominate currently in other combos.