Why are they top tier than if all they can beat is a spin stealer?

Why is defense top tier if all it can beat is attack?

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Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

They can beat stuff other than spin steal though. The F230 CF ones sway same spin, and Duo B can OS stuff.

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Why are they top tier than if all they can beat is a spin stealer?

Thats not true, So you're telling me all Duo Cancer SA165BWD can only beat Reviser Dragooon B, That all Duo Cancer B can beat is Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD, so in that case am I only limited to using Spin Stealers, Sway attack, and Balance combos VS a Reviser Killerken E230TB? Were is the Stamina aspect of the game? This is why there can be no section for anti spinsteal.

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When you enter the stadium with me you feel fear for the first time!

MI tournament thread Click or u will die
#1 In MI, #3 in BR:NORTH AMERICAN CHAMPIONSHIPS #22 In World

Exactly.

By the way Yuko Ray 14, do you disagree with anything on the list?

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I do not disagree with anything, I agree 110%. In Fact it looks better than I anticipated! lol

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When you enter the stadium with me you feel fear for the first time!

MI tournament thread Click or u will die
#1 In MI, #3 in BR:NORTH AMERICAN CHAMPIONSHIPS #22 In World

Genbull Genbull SR200TB/CS is undoubtedly top tier for stamina. Other that it looks fine.

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That is fine with, an I will edit the OP now.

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(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

*Ginga*, you have "MSF Girago/Wyvang Dragooon F230CF/GCF" in Zero G Attack AND Balance, I think you should erase it from Zero G Attack, because it seems to be more of a Zero G Attack / Spin Stealer Hybrid

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I hate Argentinian customs!

I am incredibly opposed to removing EWD for spin-steal. If you actually try it out, in an LAD match-up
EWD will win over BWD every time. I REALLY think that should be put back on. It's not overrated. It's just that much better.

I also think Balro Balro should be added in the smash-attack section. Just my opinion.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Yes, but EWD can be swayed very easily, in fact I have heard that if you bank it goes crazy.

Does Balro Balro have enough smash to hit the bey into the exits? It may seem like a silly question, but it can be hard to do.

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(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if a strong wind at a tournament made EWD sway, and I'm not kidding.

Balro Balro- eh. Wyvang Wyvang is good cause of the ridiculous power, and Bahamdia has a wide attack range, which probably helps in such a big dish, but Balro Balro... can't see any advantage over either of those, except maybe lower recoil.

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Like B-Daman! Go here!

I'll post a thread in the Advanced Forum to get some final opinions from Veterans. Thank you everyone for putting this together!

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Thanks so much.

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(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

Yes! Thank you Kei!

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BWD isn't exactly the hardest thing to sway in the world... And most (if not all) of the current sway-attackers used in today's metagame are right-spin, and EWD is, like pretty much every other tip, almost impossible to sway out against opposite-spin, so I really don't know why you're looking for sway defense on a left-spin combo. And even if EWD is swayed out easier, so what? It has noticably better LAD than BWD, IMO, so if you want higher LAD, then just use EWD, and if you think your opponent is going to use a left-spin attakcer, then go ahead with BWD. This is just my opinion, though.

Thanks Kei!

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Kei asked me to post these tests somewhere, and I decided this would be the best place.

Killerken Genbull SA165W2D results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Killerken Genbull SA165W2D vs. Reviser Dragooon B : D
Beys alternated launching first. 5:30 min. mold B : D.
Genbull: wins, 8/10 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 2/10 (All OS)
Killerken Genbull SA165W2D win rate: 80%

5 ties redone.

This did surprisingly well. W2D definitely has its advantages when it comes to LAD, IMO.

Killerken Genbull SA165W2D vs. Duo Cygnus B : D
Beys alternated launching first. 5:30 minute mold B : D.
Genbull: wins, 5/10 (All OS)
Cygnus: wins, 5/10 (All OS)
Killerken Genbull SA165W2D win rate: 50%

This all came down to which was spun first. Each bey won by just about as much when it OSed, so they were pretty much dead even the whole time.

Killerken Genbull SA165W2D vs. Wyvang Wyvang E230GF
Genbull launched first on all launches.
Genbull: wins, 2/10 (1 KO, 1 OGKO)
Wyvang: wins, 8/10 (6 OGKO, 1 KO, 1 OS)
Killerken Genbull SA165W2D win rate: 20%

This is obviously the counter for this thing.

Comparison testing:

Spoiler (Click to View)

EWD results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Killerken Genbull SA165EWD vs. Reviser Dragooon B : D
Beys alternated launching first. New EWD, 5:30 min. B : D.
Genbull: wins, 6/10 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 4/10 (All OS)
Killerken Genbull SA165EWD win rate: 60%

2 ties redone.

This actually didn't surprise me that much. W2D has never really been tested for its LAD, and I think it's on par with EWD in terms of opposite spin match-ups.

Killerken Genbull SA165EWD vs. Duo Cygnus B : D
Beys alternated launching first. New EWD, 5:30 min. B : D.
Genbull: wins, 5/10 (All OS)
Cygnus: wins, 5/10 (All OS)
Killerken Genbull SA165EWD win rate: 50%

Again, came down to which was spun first. However, I think Genbull's wins were by a few more rotations then when Genbull was used with W2D. This is where EWD excels over W2D, IMO.

Killerken Genbull SA165EWD vs. Wyvang Wyvang E230GF
Genbull launched first on all launches. New EWD.
Genbull: wins, 2/10 (1 KO, 1 OGKO)
Wyvang: wins, 8/10 (6 OGKO, 1 KO, 1 OS)
Killerken Genbull SA165EWD win rate: 20%

These results are literally identical to the W2D results. ShinobuXD and *Ginga* decided among themselves that EWD needed to be removed because it lost to sway attackers too easily... I personally think it should be re-added for spin-equalizers, considering it has noticeably higher LAD than BWD. Anyway, if you guys think EWD is swayed too easily to be put on the tier list, then this combo won't be the greatest choice.

BWD results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Killerken Genbull SA165BWD vs. Reviser Dragooon B : D
Beys alternated launching first. 5:30 min. B : D.
Genbull: wins, 2/10 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 8/10 (All OS)
Killerken Genbull SA165BWD win rate: 20%

1 tie redone.

BWD failed compared to W2D and EWD. Just failed.

Killerken Genbull SA165BWD vs. Duo Cygnus B : D
Beys alternated launching first. 5:30 min. B : D.
Genbull: wins, 4/10 (All OS)
Cygnus: wins, 6/10 (All OS)
Killerken Genbull SA165BWD win rate: 40%

Mostly down to who launched first... Genbull's wins were all by like 2 rotations. EWD and W2D made a much better performance than this, from actually seeing it.

Killerken Genbull SA165BWD vs. Wyvang Wyvang E230GF
Genbull launched first on all launches.
Genbull: wins, 2/10 (All OGKO)
Wyvang: wins, 8/10 (6 OGKO, 1 KO, 1 OS)
Killerken Genbull SA165BWD win rate: 20%

I was really suprised at this. BWD usually does better than any bottom from the D series against sway attackers. I reproduced this tests several times, and it never did any better. I think this combo hinders BWD's performance in some way.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Hey, could you try TB against Revizer Dragooon BD?

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

Hey, could you try TB against Revizer Dragooon BD?

From tournament experience and testing TB does bad against Dragooon BD. It can't do what W2D and EWD do by having rotations in the end.

Gotcha, thanks man.

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

Very interesting theblackdragon. However, a few things I will say

This thread differs of BWD vs Dragooon B http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-BWD-Disc...846?page=2

This thread differs, less slightly though, on BWD against http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-BSF-Discussion

However, I think, from your tests, W2D probably is top tier. Still disagree with adding EWD and removing BWD, though.

By the way- why Killerken Genbull?

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'Cause Kei asked for the tests and said I should post them.

I am really surprised at the results for BWD too! I mean, I don't know what happened against GF, but it just got trampled! I reproduced the test several time, and BWD never got a higher win rate. It was really weird... It usually hits 60-70% against sway attack. I think there must be something about the combo that's hindering it, or else it was a fluke that lasted for about 40 rounds.

If you think W2D is good, then why souldn't we add EWD back on? it got the same win rates against sway attack. I really don't see what the problem is, since it would only matter against a sway-attacker anyway. Oh, and no, it wouldn't get swayed by other stuff. I've seen it in tourneys before. Just my opinion.

But yes, form these results I think Genbull/Killerken/Reviser Genbull SA165W2D should be added for stamina.

The wins where BWD beat B : D are completely accurate. Duo was using BWD in those tests.

Duo has MUCH higher LAD than synchrome combinations. I used Duo on B : D and Dragooon on SA165BWD, so Duo's unbelievable LAD pushed BWD just enough to OS B : D.

So when you put BWD on duo, it can OS Dragooon on B, but if you give Duo B : D and Dragooon BWD, then Dragooon can't OS.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

i got some Duo W145BWD against Dragooon B tests!

I was in a hurry but I did 10 atleast
Equipment

Spoiler (Click to View)

zero-g grip
zero -g beylauncher.

Duo Cancer W145BWD vs Gargole Dragooon B
Duo Cancers wins: 10 All os
Gargole Dragoon wins: 0

Cancer Win percentage: 100%

For those of you who have success with W2D, can you post a picture showing how much it is worn? I'm curious.

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Could somebody test MF-H/MF VariAries SR200/E230/SP230CF/GCF?

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Spoiler (Click to View)

Looking for cheap Zero G Beys
Looking for Gryph Dragooon SA165WSF PM if you know where to find one.
Parts

Spoiler (Click to View)

Plastics

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Driger V (Hasbro)

MFB

Spoiler (Click to View)

CW's

Spoiler (Click to View)

Destructor X2
Pegasus III X2
Pegasus
Fox
Lyra
Striker II
Saggitario II
Aquario
Nemesis
Susanow
Ldrago Absorb
Orion X3
Quetzalcoatl
Virgo
Zurafa
Jupiter
Destroyer
Orso
Cetus
Ice Titan
Kronos
Lynx

MW's

Spoiler (Click to View)

Earth
Death TT
Phantom TT
Hasbro Phantom X2
Spiral X2
Cyber X2
Hyper
Hasbro Jade
Hasbro Duo
Hasbro Cosmic
Hyper blade Cosmic
Ldrago III
Hasbro Scythe
Bakushin
Hyper blade Flash
Hyper blade Diablo
Ultimate Meteo
Gravity
Hasbro Beat

Tracks

Spoiler (Click to View)

BD145
145 X3
125
T125
ED145
WD145
TR145
AD145 X2
DF105
LW105
100
90
230 X2
SW145
130
W105
160
CH120
GB145
A230
E230

Tips

Spoiler (Click to View)

RF
R²F
LRF
RDF
RS
LF
B
SB
WD X3
D
EDS
W²D
MF
MB
JB
SF
WB
GCF
4D bottoms

Spoiler (Click to View)

BD
FD
FS
XD

Chrome wheels

Spoiler (Click to View)

Reviser X2
Killerken
Phoenix (Red recolor)

Crystal wheels

Spoiler (Click to View)

Guardian
Thief (Red)

Accessories

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Stadiums

Spoiler (Click to View)

Hades Gate Stadium
Darkhelm FX stadium
Zero G Attack type stadium

Launchers

Spoiler (Click to View)

Tons of Hasbro Ripcords (Four Left spin 3 Ldrago one regular)
LL2 X2
Zero G compact Launcher

Other

Spoiler (Click to View)

Beydeck Case
Tons of tools

Hasbro XTS

Spoiler (Click to View)

Tornado Eagle
Tornado Leone
Electro Tornado Pegasus