I forgot to mention also that I used MF-H VariAres R145 MF for the group matches. Went through a Burn, couple of Basalts, Hell and a Sycthe.

Metal Flat because, with the recoil-ferocity of VariAres, I feel the extra traction from rubber bottoms is not needed. Few simple taps would result in KOs anyway. Plus it had way more stamina.

This made me smile so much. I also feel that MF is suitable for VariAres and that extra stamina would result in more KO possibilites which VariAres needs. Also, it made me even more happy to see you did not say friction in place of traction. That is really annoying when people do that.

wow... i know basalt is a good stamina/defense type but a lot of these combos can be beaten easily with a simple attack type... were there ANY decent attackers? in NY, you always have to be on your toes... attackers come out of nowhere sometimes....

nobody used attack. That is why I had an easy win. Everyone used defense, stamina, and balance. I think one person used galaxy pegasus but he didn't know the sliding shoot, so he just went in circles. and the times it hit me it didn't move basalt very far.

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Reason behind name: Soul Eater...

Formely known as ToKao

wow... i know basalt is a good stamina/defense type but a lot of these combos can be beaten easily with a simple attack type... were there ANY decent attackers? in NY, you always have to be on your toes... attackers come out of nowhere sometimes....

nobody used attack. That is why I had an easy win. Everyone used defense, stamina, and balance. I think one person used galaxy pegasus but he didn't know the sliding shoot, so he just went in circles. and the times it hit me it didn't move basalt very far.

ahhh that would explain alot. i guess the metagame there is pretty basic

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"I don't care about winning, losing, or getting the prize. All i care about is winning my place in the rankings fair and square." - Sky Prince (me)

.... you could probably get an experienced host to start hosting there. or find a well experienced blader to start hosting. the hosts of tournaments were not "born with the experience" and placed in a random state. someone has to step up! that goes for anyone IN ANY STATE/COUNTRY!

Combo's like that should not be winning tourneys. Attack types really aren't that hard to use.

Nevertheless, they are winning tournaments. Attack types "should" win, but as been said time and time again, testing environments do not equal tournament settings. Attack types are neutered competitively by how risky they can be, and the competitive usefulness of Stamina/Defense types is boosted by how relatively easy and risk-free they usually are to use in tournament situations.

Never knew that Bakushin would find such good use. If Dei wouldn't have explained it, then even I would react like Kei.

I knew the explanation would have to do with the upwards-slanting shape of Bakushin. It just seems a bit too situational to me, and I think some of the other Wheels I listed would perform better anyways.

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In the few recent tournaments scythe has been placing which is good In case somebody says "basalt still beat it" that is most likely due to the fact that there was double the amount of people using basalt. So trust me on this , Scythe will slowly start getting seen more and more in this thread.

So trust me on this , Scythe will slowly start getting seen more and more in this thread.

Rusty's a psychic...

My old winning combination was Scythe Kronos 230 and the tip was that spike tip with the rubber.

The tip was like an RF except it was a spike... don't remember what it was called...

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So trust me on this , Scythe will slowly start getting seen more and more in this thread.

Rusty's a psychic...

My old winning combination was Scythe Kronos 230 and the tip was that spike tip with the rubber.

The tip was like an RF except it was a spike... don't remember what it was called...

CS; Coat Sharp

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I'm pretty sure a 'Spike' rubber tip describes RS Rubber sharp almost perfectly.

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He said a spike IN a rubber tip, so that doesn't have any connections with RS?

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Let the wings of hope spread to the whole world!

New story :
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Yoku-s-s...ary-Hereos

Kei- Yeah, even I thought that the wheels you listed would perform better...
Uwik- Well, I am a WB-lover and I loved to see WB back into the game. An aggro WB does get the job done at times! I have never participated in tourneys, but while friendly matches, I love to use LLD 100WB! It kills everything!
control- Well, another Basalt Domination tourney that...

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Team IB Revolutions

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Seriously, where is the skill in these tournaments? Or better yet, where are the skilled players? I mean come on, most of the combos appearing on this list are combos that are getting destroyed by attackers over here and it is EASY. Is it really that hard for over 90% of the entire competitive forum to use attackers and control a tournament without getting washed out by Basalts? It is really getting sad and the lack of skill and the increase in laziness is really disappointing and makes me think about just dismissing the entire board as something based around skill, not posting anymore, and just playing on the East Coast. 6-7 year olds are using attackers efficiently over here. What is going on in the rest of the world?

Seriously, where is the skill in these tournaments? Or better yet, where are the skilled players? I mean come on, most of the combos appearing on this list are combos that are getting destroyed by attackers over here and it is EASY. Is it really that hard for over 90% of the entire competitive forum to use attackers and control a tournament without getting washed out by Basalts? It is really getting sad and the lack of skill and the increase in laziness is really disappointing and makes me think about just dismissing the entire board as something based around skill, not posting anymore, and just playing on the East Coast. 6-7 year olds are using attackers efficiently over here. What is going on in the rest of the world?

Well, Kei's post on the previous page perfectly answers your post.

Attack types "should" win, but as been said time and time again, testing environments do not equal tournament settings. Attack types are neutered competitively by how risky they can be, and the competitive usefulness of Stamina/Defense types is boosted by how relatively easy and risk-free they usually are to use in tournament situations.

But seriously, Attack types should be used...

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Team IB Revolutions

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No. It really doesn't. Attack types ARE NOT risky. That is a very lazy and played out excuse for not being skilled enough to use them to your advantage. It's more convienient for a person to blame a combo rather than blame themselves for not taking the time to make themselves better and just wanting to take the supposedly "easy way out". Attack types do exactly what they are supposed to do. It is up to you to make them work how you want to. We don't have that issue over here and never have.

No. It really doesn't. Attack types ARE NOT risky. That is a very lazy and played out excuse for not being skilled enough to use them to your advantage. It's more convienient for a person to blame a combo rather than blame themselves for not taking the time to make themselves better and just wanting to take the supposedly "easy way out". Attack types do exactly what they are supposed to do. It is up to you to make them work how you want to. We don't have that issue over here and never have.

I might be new to things again, but I can't help but agree here - it didn't take me very long to make sure my attack launches stayed in and stayed aggressive. A good sliding shoot doesn't take long to master, and once you've got it down, even R2F and friends won't skip out of bounds too often unless you rip with some beastial fury likened to that necessary to smite a boar.

The problem that makes people think Attack-types are harder is that they use too much force when launching them - an attack type doesn't need the same 100% launch a Defense or Stamina does. It's more about the motion of the launch, and the angle, than force, whereas force is almost the only factor in launching Defense/Stamina, depending on the combo.

You're not starting a lawmower, guys.

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Some manner of Octopus.

No. It really doesn't. Attack types ARE NOT risky. That is a very lazy and played out excuse for not being skilled enough to use them to your advantage. It's more convienient for a person to blame a combo rather than blame themselves for not taking the time to make themselves better and just wanting to take the supposedly "easy way out". Attack types do exactly what they are supposed to do. It is up to you to make them work how you want to. We don't have that issue over here and never have.

I might be new to things again, but I can't help but agree here - it didn't take me very long to make sure my attack launches stayed in and stayed aggressive. A good sliding shoot doesn't take long to master, and once you've got it down, even R2F and friends won't skip out of bounds too often unless you rip with some beastial fury likened to that necessary to smite a boar.

The problem that makes people think Attack-types are harder is that they use too much force when launching them - an attack type doesn't need the same 100% launch a Defense or Stamina does. It's more about the motion of the launch, and the angle, than force, whereas force is almost the only factor in launching Defense/Stamina.

You're not starting a lawmower, guys.

THANK YOU! I am so glad someone finally understands this. You, especially being newer to this now, are a perfect example of why it is not so hard and why practicing is essential. Awesome contribution. I think I will bump the old Tier vs. Skill thread. A lot of things need to be expressed there to avoid spam here. Thanks again for explaining that so thoroughly.

It's a huge shame that a majority of people find OSing the "safer" option. I have to disagree, of course it needs a tad bit of mastering, the sliding shoot etc, however I find it definitely more satisfying to win via KO with VariAres.

Easily, more than half of my battles last tournament were with VariAres, however, if you become to familiar with such, you will turn into ThePokeBlader.

Someone who does nothing but use RFs to such a prediction, RB based counters are used.

It's a balance between KOing and OSing that should be found, not hanging heavily on one side.

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Bluezee, do you define "skill" in Beyblade solely by the frequency with which a Blader uses Attack types? Of course not. It takes "skill" to use Attack types. It takes "skill" to use Stamina types. It takes "skill" to use Defense types. It takes "skill" to know what to use and when. Bladers–not their combos–are always responsible for their loss, because they are the ones who made the choice to use what they did. "Skill" is not as one-dimensional as you're making it out to be, and you know that. That's why I can't believe you essentially just told all tournament winners on this forum who do not use Attack types (even if it was only for the final match where they chose to use a Stamina/Defense type) that they "lack skill" ...

Every combo can be defeated easily by something, so it is a moot point to proclaim that "most of the combos appearing on this list are combos that are getting destroyed by attackers over here and it is EASY".

You cannot forget context. Often, using an Attack type is not the best choice in a competitive situation.

The problem that makes people think Attack-types are harder is that they use too much force when launching them - an attack type doesn't need the same 100% launch a Defense or Stamina does. It's more about the motion of the launch, and the angle, than force, whereas force is almost the only factor in launching Defense/Stamina, depending on the combo.

What you're saying about Attack types is true (though, I would argue that some Attack customs do need a 100% launch depending on the situation) ... but Stamina and Defense types do not always need a 100% launch. Someone who blindly launches anything at 100% regardless of the situation is clearly is not thinking.

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I would like to point out that a Gravity Perseus somethingRF won Reality Altering Hades Upheaval. If pretty-eyes Estafan comes on and posts his combo, he beasted the tournament.

Would also like to point out that all of America's best final battles end by explosion. No exceptions.

The problem that makes people think Attack-types are harder is that they use too much force when launching them - an attack type doesn't need the same 100% launch a Defense or Stamina does. It's more about the motion of the launch, and the angle, than force, whereas force is almost the only factor in launching Defense/Stamina, depending on the combo.

What you're saying about Attack types is true (though, I would argue that some Attack customs do need a 100% launch depending on the situation) ... but Stamina and Defense types do not always need a 100% launch. Someone who blindly launches anything at 100% regardless of the situation is clearly is not thinking.

I wasn't really applying it to all situations in detail - obviously Spin Stealing, Destabilizing(...if anyone does this any more?)/Wobble customs, and certain matchups being better at lower spin rates do require more thought. In general I suppose I was just being vague to get the point across.

Obviously I'm not here to argue with people who actually go to tournaments, let alone people from the top ten in the WBO, I was just offering what I myself had experienced during my own practice sessions and from reading extensively.

Experience is the primary factor in anything, especially things so reliant on human trial and error and physics we don't quite fully understand.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Obviously I'm not here to argue with people who actually go to tournaments, let alone people from the top ten in the WBO, I was just offering what I myself had experienced during my own practice sessions and from reading extensively.

So here's what you should do: go to a tournament, beast it, and then come back to argue with us.

Obviously I'm not here to argue with people who actually go to tournaments, let alone people from the top ten in the WBO, I was just offering what I myself had experienced during my own practice sessions and from reading extensively.

So here's what you should do: go to a tournament, beast it, and then come back to argue with us.

I don't suspect I'd be in a position to argue then regardless. I do intend to hit up tournaments at some point, but money, experience, time, etc. are all restricting factors at this point. Until then all I can do is practice, read, absorb, and practice again.

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Some manner of Octopus.

In all honesty, it really takes no considerable amount, in fact a VERY minute amount of skill to use Defense and Stamina types, more specifally Stamina types. All you have to do with a Stamina type is pull as hard and fast as you can and hope to outspin your opponent. It takes more skill to master attack types do to their volatile nature and unpredictable, until controlled, movements. That is why there are launching techniques specifically designated to Attack types. Sure they can be applied to other types but the real efficiency is evident in attack types. You don't need to know any advanced launching techniques when it comes to types other than attack types. Stamina types require no practice which ends up translating to laziness. With attackers, it is EXTREMELY important to know all necessary launch techniques and when and where to apply them. That is when true skill appears and is evident.

You can give any new blader with a half decent launch power any of these recent combos posted on here and they could win. You can not do that with attackers because they take time, patience and practice which will translate into skill. So yeah, maybe it did seem like I just told all the tournament winners on the forum that they had no skill which essentially is what my message translated out to be for some however, it is not said without reason because everything I just said here is correct.

Basically, even if they did not come in first place, you can clearly distinguished the skilled and trying from the ones who are unskilled and taking the easy way out of things with the added convienience of slightly knowing what their area has to offer. They are more so using knowledge rather than skill along with the usual "spam because I don't know any better or can not do any better than this". They don't get respected for that at all. I respect the player who went out of their way to learn and expand their game and make themselves better. Not the ones who just copied and pasted the whole top-tier combo list into their pockets.

In all honesty, it really takes no considerable amount, in fact a VERY minute amount of skill to use Defense and Stamina types, more specifally Stamina types. All you have to do with a Stamina type is pull as hard and fast as you can and hope to outspin your opponent. It takes more skill to master attack types do to their volatile nature and unpredictable, until controlled, movements. That is why there are launching techniques specifically designated to Attack types. Sure they can be applied to other types but the real efficiency is evident in attack types. You don't need to know any advanced launching techniques when it comes to types other than attack types. Stamina types require no practice which ends up translating to laziness. With attackers, it is EXTREMELY important to know all necessary launch techniques and when and where to apply them. That is when true skill appears and is evident.

You can give any new blader with a half decent launch power any of these recent combos posted on here and they could win. You can not do that with attackers because they take time, patience and practice which will translate into skill. So yeah, maybe it did seem like I just told all the tournament winners on the forum that they had no skill which essentially is what my message translated out to be for some however, it is not said without reason because everything I just said here is correct.

Basically, even if they did not come in first place, you can clearly distinguished the skilled and trying from the ones who are unskilled and taking the easy way out of things with the added convienience of slightly knowing what their area has to offer. They are more so using knowledge rather than skill along with the usual "spam because I don't know any better or can not do any better than this". They don't get respected for that at all. I respect the player who went out of their way to learn and expand their game and make themselves better. Not the ones who just copied and pasted the whole top-tier combo list into their pockets.

wow I missed a lot of these arguments but anyways
I agree.
although I also disagree in some parts..
stamina types require quite a lot of strategy if hard launching was all there was to it then stamina types wouldn't get KO'ed by attack types and yeah If you give a new blader with no experience an MF LLD BD145RF to win the WHOLE tournament... he would get destroyed out there no matter where he is Italians would kill hima nd the rest of the world ... well basalt BD145MB/CS would kill him.

honestly some of the top tiers we have ATM can't cut it in these times seriously when was the last time someone won with a MF LLD 90RF???
Or an MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS
SERIOUSLY it needs a revamp...
also Kei why have you shot down the inclusion of beat simply because its right spin??? its certainly stronger than vulcan and still you said it had the same problems as Vulcan???

Beat kills most Basalt BD145 combos....

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In all honesty, it really takes no considerable amount, in fact a VERY minute amount of skill to use Defense and Stamina types, more specifally Stamina types. All you have to do with a Stamina type is pull as hard and fast as you can and hope to outspin your opponent. It takes more skill to master attack types do to their volatile nature and unpredictable, until controlled, movements. That is why there are launching techniques specifically designated to Attack types. Sure they can be applied to other types but the real efficiency is evident in attack types. You don't need to know any advanced launching techniques when it comes to types other than attack types. Stamina types require no practice which ends up translating to laziness. With attackers, it is EXTREMELY important to know all necessary launch techniques and when and where to apply them. That is when true skill appears and is evident.

You can give any new blader with a half decent launch power any of these recent combos posted on here and they could win. You can not do that with attackers because they take time, patience and practice which will translate into skill. So yeah, maybe it did seem like I just told all the tournament winners on the forum that they had no skill which essentially is what my message translated out to be for some however, it is not said without reason because everything I just said here is correct.

Basically, even if they did not come in first place, you can clearly distinguished the skilled and trying from the ones who are unskilled and taking the easy way out of things with the added convienience of slightly knowing what their area has to offer. They are more so using knowledge rather than skill along with the usual "spam because I don't know any better or can not do any better than this". They don't get respected for that at all. I respect the player who went out of their way to learn and expand their game and make themselves better. Not the ones who just copied and pasted the whole top-tier combo list into their pockets.

Oooo so THIS is why you use combos like Libra 85D, Scythe Kronos 230MF and Earth Aquario 85D in tournaments...aaah I see now.

Sooo I guess when I poorly select a Scythe Kronos BD145EDS against my opponent who had chosen a Basalt 230WD during a stalling clause, it meant absolutely nothing when I knew how to KO it 3 times consecutively.

In all honesty, it really takes no considerable amount, in fact a VERY minute amount of skill to use Defense and Stamina types, more specifally Stamina types. All you have to do with a Stamina type is pull as hard and fast as you can and hope to outspin your opponent. It takes more skill to master attack types do to their volatile nature and unpredictable, until controlled, movements. That is why there are launching techniques specifically designated to Attack types. Sure they can be applied to other types but the real efficiency is evident in attack types. You don't need to know any advanced launching techniques when it comes to types other than attack types. Stamina types require no practice which ends up translating to laziness. With attackers, it is EXTREMELY important to know all necessary launch techniques and when and where to apply them. That is when true skill appears and is evident.

You can give any new blader with a half decent launch power any of these recent combos posted on here and they could win. You can not do that with attackers because they take time, patience and practice which will translate into skill. So yeah, maybe it did seem like I just told all the tournament winners on the forum that they had no skill which essentially is what my message translated out to be for some however, it is not said without reason because everything I just said here is correct.

Basically, even if they did not come in first place, you can clearly distinguished the skilled and trying from the ones who are unskilled and taking the easy way out of things with the added convienience of slightly knowing what their area has to offer. They are more so using knowledge rather than skill along with the usual "spam because I don't know any better or can not do any better than this". They don't get respected for that at all. I respect the player who went out of their way to learn and expand their game and make themselves better. Not the ones who just copied and pasted the whole top-tier combo list into their pockets.

Oooo so THIS is why you use combos like Libra 85D, Scythe Kronos 230MF and Earth Aquario 85D in tournaments...aaah I see now.

Sooo I guess when I poorly select a Scythe Kronos BD145EDS against my opponent who had chosen a Basalt 230WD during a stalling clause, it meant absolutely nothing when I knew how to KO it 3 times consecutively.

You know, I would use attack all the time...if you didn't take my opponents aside constantly and essentially cheat.