Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game

Poll: What should be done about F230?

Ban it altogether
15.91%
14
Ban it to some extent
36.36%
32
Leave it alone
47.73%
42
Total: 100% 88 vote(s)
Partially because I can't post in the advanced forum, but also partially to give non-advanced members a thread to voice their opinions on the subject I felt this was necessary.

Introduction and Short Explanation
When it comes down to it, beyblade does reflect back on the rock-paper-scissors concept where defense is rock, stamina is paper, and attack is scissors. Any combination from any point in the metagame should be able to stand a chance against the type it is designed to beat.

A few examples:
---Libra BD145 RDF will not lose every single round to flash even though it is out-classed.

---Burn Cancer 90 WD will still outspin most of today's right-spin defense combinations.

---Pegasis 85RF still holds a chance of KOing most of today's stamina combinations, especially Phantom.

Long-winded Argument
F230 CF/GCF breaks this cycle. It's solo spin times are better than almost everything other than stamina and maybe phantom 85 mf, yet it has no problem with these combos thanks to the pace it which it moves and the attack power it is thus given. However, when you put dragooon on this setup it will defeat just about everything because any setup that could counter it in right-spin will lose in a spin-equalizing match. And if the opponent uses dragoon as well it goes back to a same-spin battle where it is once again extremely difficult to defeat.
Now, to move on to its zero-g dominance. The attack power it has in bb-10 is far inferior to the sway attack it has in zero-g and it remains difficult to KO traditionally or by sway. Otherwise, the issues are almost the same.

As a MD blader, for months I have been at the mercy of players like geetster99, Stars, Sniper, and Arupaeo who possess F230 and have only successfully defeated a dragooon variant of it once in a fluky match against Arupaeo using Duo Cancer BGrin and have only obtained any success against its right-spin version using Duo SA165 MB, MB being the only tip that has enough sway defense to avoid being KOed without sacrificing a large amount of stamina. I recently purchased a few to try to join the ranks of the F230 masters and in bb-10 experimenting alone I have found very few consistent counters and I would assume the results would be even worse in zero-g. I have not entered a tournament since obtaining a functional (non-red) F230, but against bladers with little experience or parts there would be no competition.

Direct reasons for limiting F230 in some way:
1. Breaks the rock-paper-scissors cycle as it does not fall directly into any of the categories and it defeats almost everything that does.
2. Eliminates some of the fun of the game as Libra did when it was banned because if you don't have it and go up against it you are basically screwed.
3. Eliminates almost all chance (ask Arupaeo about his finals tie-breaker match in August against Pegasus97) of new bladers being competition for veterans.
4. Turns people off from returning to tournaments if they don't have the money or a way of purchasing it if they are stomped upon the way we see F230 do at every tournament. This would be less of an issue if Hasbro's F230 was any good, but since it isn't, this isn't a factor.

Options I see:
1. Ban all Use of F230
2. Ban all use of F230 in Zero-g
3. Ban use of all orange and brown f230, since the red one is nowhere the same level of threat
4. Ban certain track/tip-setups on F230 (ex: F230 CF/GCF)
5. Ban left-spin on F230, doesn't solve all of the problems, but does something.

I personally prefer option 4, but what do you guys think?
I'm up for banning F230 GCF/CF in Zero-G only.
I agree with *ginga* ban f230 from cf and gcf from zero g, not ban the entire spin track like the libra metal system wheel
yeah me to I swear as soon as u see F230 Gcf your like
T___T "Well im scrwed"
Pardon my ignorance, I haven't read up on the meta, but wouldn't it be easy to KO something on F230 CF/GCF? Wyvang Wyvang, Gryph Gryph, Flash? Something along the lines of one of the Zero-G Heavy Hitters.
I don't see why this is a problem... E230 is sorta like this when you think about it. It can beat Stamina, Attack if on CS, Defense, and sometimes Balance. The only thing that beats it is Balro unless it's on Duo, Dragooon, and Tornado Stallers in the BB-10. If it's in the Zero-G Stadium, virtually nothing can beat it. So why not ban E230 for the same reason? And we saw that Bahamdia Ifraid beat F230CF. Remember, there is a counter to everything and it would be unfair to ban F230 for those who spent 50$ for F230s.

Just my 2 cents.
(Oct. 27, 2013  4:40 PM)Kujikato Wrote: Pardon my ignorance, I haven't read up on the meta, but wouldn't it be easy to KO something on F230 CF/GCF? Wyvang Wyvang, Gryph Gryph, Flash? Something along the lines of one of the Zero-G Heavy Hitters.

no not at all sychromed its to heavy and moves to fast
so most other tips that aren't XF or GCF cant catch up...

EDIT:@Shining god
Yeah but there is a realible counter for e230(left spins)
its not like F230 has a known counter its been a year...
I don't see the issue either. I mean, isn't the goal of Beyblade to make good combos and win? i don't mean to be rude but, it kinda just sounds like people are being sore losers. Just because you can't make a good enough combo to beat it, you give up and try to get it banned. This may be just me, but I would just try and try and try again till' i make a combo good enough to beat it. not go and get banned.
Actually in BR, I witnessed E230MB beating Dragooon consistently. Virtually nothing can beat it. Has anyone tested E230MB vs F230CF/GCF in the Zero-G Stadium? If anything, ban Dragooon, because since that's broken because of theblackdragons findings, it can beat its true counter, Duo. I believe the only way to counter F230CF/GCF in the BB-10 would be Killerken Dragooon BD145GF, because it's extremely fast and it can hang on to the tornado ridge for a long time.
Very interesting.

It seems really drastic to me. Banning a part(s). But it does seem like it should be done, to an extent. Although, it's not like it's completely unbeatable. Beginners can't really do much anyways against a really competitive setting.

Personally, I'd go with option 2. Maybe 4, I'm kinda stuck between the two. There are probably more counters that can be found in BB-10, but in Zero-G it beats almost everything that isn't on Duo. But Duo F230CF/GCF is part of this discussion which could also lead to option 4, because it practically kills Dragooon.

Smash Attack > F230
Sway Attack > F230
Stamina(including some Duo) > F230
Defense > F230
Sway Defense > F230
Balance = F230

But isn't that the point of a balance custom? To be a combination of the three, which breaks the cycle? Not nescessarily being practically unbeatable, but still breaks the cycle. Up until now there wasn't really a great balance custom.

I haven't actually seen what attack does to this in BB-10 yet. Does anyone have tests? Because other than Duo, attack seems the best option.
(Oct. 27, 2013  4:50 PM)Samurai_Ifraid1 Wrote: I don't see the issue either. I mean, isn't the goal of Beyblade to make good combos and win? i don't mean to be rude but, it kinda just sounds like people are being sore losers. Just because you can't make a good enough combo to beat it, you give up and try to get it banned. This may be just me, but I would just try and try and try again till' i make a combo good enough to beat it. not go and get banned.

I see your point but when it takes almost no effort to win, when you can weak lauch and win by outspin then something need to be banned
actually I think a lot should be banned but not dragoon being the only left spin chrome wheel it would take out spin stealers,equalizers and zombies out of the game...
I this all this argument over F230 started by what was posted in the advanced forum. And it started a couple tournaments ago when I started using Genbull Dragoon F230 CF/GCF. Simply put, it dominates. If you know how to use it and weak launch you're almost guaranteed a victory. I went 8-0 with Genbull Dragoon F230 CF yesterday and 1-0 with Duo F230 CF. I would personally (Now that Im actually thinking straight and actually slept) like to see its uses limited. If the issue continues to get out of hand then a banning would be possible. I don't want this issue to be like Basalt was. Everyone knows there was a problem and nothing was done.
I'd rather ban F230 CF/GCF.

Rather than ban the entire part, I'd say ban it with that combo. (In Zero-G) It's it's really only *broken* combo. F230 without that setup isn't really worth banning, in my opinion. If someone used Genbull Dragoon F230 GCF, opponents would have something to worry about. If they used Genbull Dragoon F230 B, would we opponents have a lot to worry about?


I know some kids, especially at CT events (yesterday's I hosted, for example) only have a few Beyblades, limiting one child to use Golem Behemoth F230 TB.

Just my thoughts.
I personally am in favor of limiting the use of F230 with CF/GCF. If those are taken out of the equation F230 isn't as bad.
I think that if we banned GCF/CF on F230 GF woul be put in use because it is so wide that it can stay up even if off balance, so just keep that in mind.
(Oct. 27, 2013  5:56 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: I think that if we banned GCF/CF on F230 GF woul be put in use because it is so wide that it can stay up even if off balance, so just keep that in mind.


Are there any tests of F230 on GF? It might not be as broken, but I guess testing would need to be done. (if not already)
I think we should wait and see what else Zero-G has to offer first. I dont own F230, and I've never been to a tourney, but this thread makes me want one... even though it will likely be Hasbro. I mean, Dark_Mousy mentioned Basalt, and that was a very dominant part, but by the time Blitz and Variares and other 4D wheels were released it was already getting easier to beat it. Remember there are still planned 0G Beys we have not seen, and we still don't know if Hasbro plans on releasing these parts. We could ban F230, then end up getting another broken part. And even though 0G's been out for a while now, there still is a lack of testing form what I've seen. I think new combos will continue to surface that could possibly beat this combo. Those are just my 2 cents.
You guys should ban F230 for Zero G only, I haven't been a veteran at tournaments, but I do know that F230 will always dominate the Zero G format, so you should ban it, and you guys should run checks on red F230s, my red one is as good as my orange, just thought that was worth noting.
(Oct. 27, 2013  4:42 PM)*AJ* Wrote:
(Oct. 27, 2013  4:40 PM)Kujikato Wrote: Pardon my ignorance, I haven't read up on the meta, but wouldn't it be easy to KO something on F230 CF/GCF? Wyvang Wyvang, Gryph Gryph, Flash? Something along the lines of one of the Zero-G Heavy Hitters.

no not at all sychromed its to heavy and moves to fast
so most other tips that aren't XF or GCF cant catch up...

IIRC, I read about Wyvang Wyvang GB145 GF, would that be a suicide mission with Wyvang2's recoil?
(Oct. 27, 2013  5:56 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: I think that if we banned GCF/CF on F230 GF woul be put in use because it is so wide that it can stay up even if off balance, so just keep that in mind.

I agree with this. It definitely wouldn't be as effective as GCF or CF because it wouldn't stay up as long without the ring, but its kind of the same subject. If we were to ban F230 CF/GCF, we might as well ban the part completely.

I wouldn't like that, but we'd still see it quite a bit in winning combinations, because variations of the F230 CF/GCF will most likely be discovered, although they might not be completely broken.
(Oct. 27, 2013  6:39 PM)Kujikato Wrote:
(Oct. 27, 2013  4:42 PM)*AJ* Wrote:
(Oct. 27, 2013  4:40 PM)Kujikato Wrote: Pardon my ignorance, I haven't read up on the meta, but wouldn't it be easy to KO something on F230 CF/GCF? Wyvang Wyvang, Gryph Gryph, Flash? Something along the lines of one of the Zero-G Heavy Hitters.

no not at all sychromed its to heavy and moves to fast
so most other tips that aren't XF or GCF cant catch up...

IIRC, I read about Wyvang Wyvang GB145 GF, would that be a suicide mission with Wyvang2's recoil?

pretty much
I have Gryph^2, anyone want me to test against Dragooon F230______
Question here,

Are we referring to orange F230's or just the track in general?


EDIT: In the OP it states orange and brown:
Red and Brown are nowhere near as good and are not recommended, in the first place. I have heard Red is a bit better than Brown from some... I know my Red is pretty decent; better than brown (I've compared with a friend's).

What if Hasbro releases more colors/molds, assumingly orange, maybe more...? Would they be automatically banned, or would testing be needed, to prove they're "bad".

Tongue_out
Orange F230 of course Grin anyway I've never owned F230 and haven't seen it in action but to me it looks like a repeat of Libra and Basalt although I think we should wait until hasbro releases some more stuff because remeber Libra? it was banned until there was something that could consistantly beat it and outclassed it (Basalt) so it's just a repeat F230 will be banned until some new broken part is realesed that easily trashes F230 like Basalt did the Meta... and now as you can all see Basalt isn't even on the tier list nor is Libra although judt my 2 cents I think we should either temporarly ban it or ban F230GCF/CF however the best choice would be to wait if everyone focuses onn ways to beat F230CF/GCF then I'm sure we could find many counters like Dragooon has it's counters... Duo Death and in some cases Wyvang just my 2 Cents
(Oct. 27, 2013  7:43 PM)Lazer Wrote: Orange F230 of course Grin anyway I've never owned F230 and haven't seen it in action but to me it looks like a repeat of Libra and Basalt although I think we should wait until hasbro releases some more stuff because remeber Libra? it was banned until there was something that could consistantly beat it and outclassed it (Basalt) so it's just a repeat F230 will be banned until some new broken part is realesed that easily trashes F230 like Basalt did the Meta... and now as you can all see Basalt isn't even on the tier list nor is Libra although judt my 2 cents I think we should either temporarly ban it or ban F230GCF/CF however the best choice would be to wait if everyone focuses onn ways to beat F230CF/GCF then I'm sure we could find many counters like Dragooon has it's counters... Duo Death and in some cases Wyvang just my 2 Cents

Problem with what you just said is:

There are only 2 more beys we expect to be released as part of the Metal Fight/Zero-G line, being Garudas and Byakko. They are not even confirmed to be released yet, and considering we'd get about 4 new parts (Garudas wheel, Garudas's track, Garudas's tip, Byakko Wheel), its possible a counter could be created from these and other parts, nothing can be said for sure. Tongue_out

Just my thoughts.

Honestly, before any verdict is made, we really do need more testing. Tongue_out