World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade General

Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game

Poll: What should be done about F230?

Ban it altogether
15.79%
15
Ban it to some extent
34.74%
33
Leave it alone
49.47%
47
Total: 100% 95 vote(s)
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Oct. 30, 2013  5:58 PM
 
(Oct. 30, 2013  5:46 PM)Kai-V Wrote:
(Oct. 30, 2013  5:43 PM)Dark_Mousy Wrote: There is a certain amount of skill involved with the combo. But personally I would like to see something done about it. IF i can go to a tournament and go undefeated with it on multiple occasions, then that's something to look into further.

But you are ranked thirteen in the whole world : it is not like you are not used to going undefeated or almost ...

Absolutely I don't mind. But it was to easy this past weekend. IN all honesty its to easy to win with it. I knew I could take a chance and use something else, or use what I knew would win.
Oct. 30, 2013  8:27 PM
 
And I think that right there says exactly why it should be banned.
Oct. 30, 2013  8:38 PM
 
Kai-V: Er, just to say, It's not really that hard to launch at all... :\ You can learn it in like 2-3 minutes. It's just weak launching for the most part really. The only people I've seen who have problems launching it are people who haven't actually learned how.

To be honest, weak launching against sway is a common technique here. That said, any blader from NC is gonna weak launch automatically in most cases anyway.

The only launch you would ever have to use besides that would be a simple bank against Dragooon TB, which nobody ever uses anyway. Tongue_out
Oct. 30, 2013  9:23 PM
 
Was my post not posted...?
What DM said makes it ban-able. The fact that he can walk in and know he'll win is terrible within itself. Here in VA it's kinda understood that we don't want any super-combos, if someone starts using one we just get bummed out. Then we try and take it down.
Oct. 30, 2013  9:38 PM
 
(Oct. 30, 2013  9:23 PM)DrPepsidew Wrote: Was my post not posted...?
What DM said makes it ban-able. The fact that he can walk in and know he'll win is terrible within itself. Here in VA it's kinda understood that we don't want any super-combos, if someone starts using one we just get bummed out. Then we try and take it down.

I noticed it, just couldn't respond I was at work. But sadly that's how I kinda viewed it last weekend. I believe limiting the use of F230 should be considered by the committee. If I can go to a tournament and go undefeated with I have no doubt someone like Kei or Arupaeo could.
Oct. 30, 2013  9:40 PM
 
My final say, is that if we do end up banning this for some reason, we ban it only on Dragooon in a Zero-G stadium.

Otherwise, I feel like it is completely useless to ban something that has so many viable counters to it.
Oct. 30, 2013  10:02 PM
 
Oops hah, I didn't see my 1st post ._. But on Dragooon, I personally thing the typical F230 set-up is OP
Oct. 30, 2013  10:18 PM
 
My final suggestion: banning Dragoon F230 GCF and CF in Zero-g only
Dark_Mousy Aru has, Sniper has, geetster has, Stars has I think it was our June tournament where the four of them made the finals using nothing but F230
Oct. 30, 2013  10:22 PM
 
(Oct. 30, 2013  10:18 PM)Time Wrote: My final suggestion: banning Dragoon F230 GCF and CF in Zero-g only
Dark_Mousy Aru has, Sniper has, geetster has, Stars has I think it was our June tournament where the four of them made the finals using nothing but F230

I have to agree. In BB-10 Dragooon F230 can be countered.
Oct. 30, 2013  10:27 PM
 
I think everyone could agree that banning it on Dragooon, only in Zero-G is the best option right now.

If we end up seeing right spin F230 dominate, then we can decide from there, in my opinion.
Oct. 30, 2013  10:36 PM
 
Yes, I agreewith LMAO, but isn't Genbull Genbull F230CF/GCF a problem?
Oct. 31, 2013  2:04 AM
 
(Oct. 30, 2013  10:36 PM)RagerBlade Wrote: Yes, I agree. Is Genbull Genbull F230Cf/GCF a problem?

it main purpose is also to beat dragoon B:D just like duo f230 cf/gcf but it still suffers from the same weaknesses as it as well.
Oct. 31, 2013  2:34 AM
 
(Oct. 30, 2013  9:40 PM)LMAO Wrote: My final say, is that if we do end up banning this for some reason, we ban it only on Dragooon in a Zero-G stadium.

Otherwise, I feel like it is completely useless to ban something that has so many viable counters to it.

Er... "so many viable counters" is a bit much, but IMO Duo F230CF is definitely far from the level of Dragooon F230.

Yes, that is definitely what should happen. Like Pepsi said, if you can actually walk into an event and already know that you're taking home the gold, it needs to go.
Oct. 31, 2013  3:44 AM
 
Competition is what we like and look for, not a consistent Robespierre-esque meta.
Oct. 31, 2013  3:52 AM
 
Maybe the people who want to use Dragooon F230 should weak launch? Just a suggestion.
Edit: Dragooon lives on spin steal...
Oct. 31, 2013  4:05 AM
 
That's still a viable technique used against sway.
Oct. 31, 2013  3:20 PM
 
So I spent like three hours yesterday trying to come up with a counter that could os dragoooon in bb-10 and these were the three best things I could come up with. Each one seems ludicrous on first reading, but there was a lot of thought that went into each one. I focused on things at a height lower than the metal wheel to avoid as much contact as possible. Each of these were never decisive winners, but they were also rarely decisive losers, if someone wants to do some formal testing that would be great.
Flash (stamina mode) uranus (used to minimalize protrusion) 85 EWD- height minimalization to a point just above gcf. One of the problems with dragoon f230 is it is so close to its opponent at the end of the battle, thanks to flash'a Attack power (even in stamina mode) dragoon is hit away and with a little luck stops spinning before it is able to make contact with flash again.

Phantom (attack mode) Cancer f:d: spins in the middle until late in the match and then again with a little bit of luck tornado stalls around dragooon until it topples and stops spinning

Death (defense mode) 90 CS: similar to the flash combo but with a little lower precession and a heck of a lot more defense. This one only one maybe 5 times out of like 35 rounds

Out of the three I far prefer the flash combo, but let's see what everyone else comes up with or if they even have the same success I did
Oct. 31, 2013  3:32 PM
 
Wat about another tornado staller ? Maybe somebody should test it against phantom Cygnus 85mf since MF and phantom might have a chance of OSing cf/gcf or death cancer b d stamina+ anti spin steal it might have a chance
Oct. 31, 2013  3:53 PM
 
(Oct. 31, 2013  3:32 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote: Wat about another tornado staller ? Maybe somebody should test it against phantom Cygnus 85mf since MF and phantom might have a chance of OSing cf/gcf or death cancer b d stamina+ anti spin steal it might have a chance
I tried doing a TS combo against Dragoon F230GCF but it didn't work. Kept getting hit then just go in the center and get spun out.
Oct. 31, 2013  6:35 PM
 
(Oct. 31, 2013  2:34 AM)theblackdragon Wrote: Yes, that is definitely what should happen. Like Pepsi said, if you can actually walk into an event and already know that you're taking home the gold, it needs to go.

That's never the case. There's no way you can ever go into a tournament "knowing" that you're going to take home the Gold Face. That's just arrogance; Dragooon F230 CF/GCF isn't unbeatable, so nobody should be treating it that way. Yes, perhaps it is possible to go on a winning streak with it–you could with any powerful combo–but that isn't necessarily a reflection of something that is broken or someone that is insanely skilled (though it could be). It could also be an indication of the skill/knowledge level of the Bladers the F230 user plays against, or simply, it could be an indication that the user was lucky in a few battles that they could/should have lost.

I'll try to do some tests myself soon. You've proven already based on my suggestions/your tests that right-spin F230 CF/GCF isn't as overpowered as people initially were suggesting, so there's no reason why left-spin F230 CF/GCF would be. Left-spin TB might not work, but there are other options.
Oct. 31, 2013  6:48 PM
 
(Oct. 31, 2013  6:35 PM)Kei Wrote: That's never the case. There's no way you can ever go into a tournament "knowing" that you're going to take home the Gold Face.

Not gonna lie, was feeling a bit arrogant that day.
Oct. 31, 2013  9:47 PM
 
Don't ban F230CF / GCF!!!!!!! If its strong, it's strong, that's what customization is all about in beyblade, making strong competitive beys that you can beat other bladers with so I vote leave F230CF / GCF alone...
Oct. 31, 2013  10:04 PM
 
Leave it alone? Look at the Winning Combinations thread and tell me you don't see a Dragooon F230 on the list. It's even more overpowered than Meta Knight in SSBB.

We should call this Dragooon F230 dilemma: Project MetaGame Knight.
Oct. 31, 2013  10:54 PM
 
I'm somewhat half and half, but in the end it all depends on the combo you're going up against.

Whenever, and if I ever happen come across an opponent that has F230 in the custom, I would use a stamina type.
Oct. 31, 2013  11:28 PM
 
(Oct. 31, 2013  10:54 PM)Striker Phantom Wrote: I'm somewhat half and half, but in the end it all depends on the combo you're going up against.

Whenever, and if I ever happen come across an opponent that has F230 in the custom, I would use a stamina type.

Someone tried that on me, i won. Just saying Dragoon F CF can spin steal like a champ. THe way to beat it is to get it off balance and make it scrape. If you can't do that then you lose.
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