Yes, it is counterable, but it's extremely, extremely difficult. Basalt and Libra weren't unbeatable; they were just really, really tough to beat, to the point where using anything else was basically a death sentence, and the metagame revolved around beating them. That is exactly what we've seen with F230; I see no difference in the situation.

I do have to agree on this one. There are very little counters, but still, there are some. Again, us Toronto bladers do generally manage to counter it by using the same spin setup with more stamina. Sway Attackers sometime manage to get the job done, too, but not as good as them. Not to mention, they're risky against it, as well.

As for the whole Dragoon F230 thing, if there were a ban, I wouldn't ban it just itself, given there are still counters, one utilizing F230. I'm not too sure if one of the factors determining a ban for the Chrome Wheel on F230(G)CF was based off of Dragoon's weight in comparison to other wheels', however.

Right now, I'm somewhere in between it all. TheBlackDragon's points are solid, also what he said about the whole healthy metagame, too. It would make it a lot better and enjoyable if it was removed, IMO. However, like mentioned, once more, there still are counters. It may be hard for someone with less knowledge to think of them, though.

IMO the part (F230) itself is so easy to counter In right-spin (stamina/sway attack) it's basically not ban-worthy in right-spin. I see the problem is in Dragooon F230GCF alone, and nothing else (Besides the original purpose of F230 was to stop left-spin Dragooon combos.)

And Shido, the problem with dragoon is not only it's weight but the fact it's the only left-spin Chrome Wheel. Have you tried opposite-spin SA165EWD though? Normally mine wins against my F230 reliably though mine was rather squeaky to start with.

TBD's points are solid but the way he pushes the anti-ban side so hard (heck he classifies Uwikz's statistics as irrelevant) is a bit on my nerves, and I'd like a calm discussion instead of a raging battle.

I see Libra and Basalt being counterable but difficult to do. Back in Libra's time every bey except Libra can use a metal face in the WBBA, but in the WBO it was banned outright. Basalt almost got the boot if it weren't for 4D, again, nearly the same situation. F230? Well I believe that was a bit luck-based IMO (the pro-ban side might have happened to get really good F230s) because with Libra and Basalt mold difference doesn't affect their performance, they're still broken.

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And Shido, the problem with dragoon is not only it's weight but the fact it's the only left-spin Chrome Wheel.

Yeah, this is definitely one of the prime reasons.

Have you tried opposite-spin SA165EWD though?

Opposite-spin, as in right-spin SA165EWD or left? If left, it definitely is reliable, given on most occasion, it has more Stamina than F230(G)CF. That's what it all comes down to in a match like that; which left-spin variant has the most stamina left. If that is the case, again, this would definitely be more reliable than Sway Attackers. If right-spin on the other hand, it's not so much, haha.

Well I believe that was a bit luck-based IMO (the pro-ban side might have happened to get really good F230s) because with Libra and Basalt mold difference doesn't affect their performance, they're still broken.

This is quite true, actually. However, unlike Libra and Basalt still being broken regardless of a mold variation, that's not the case for F230. Generally, Takara F230 that don't work all that well aren't necessarily broken.

It's in right, as Dragooon F230 is the targeted combination to counter by SA165EWD. Being right-spin, F230GCF's sway is almost worthless (opposite-spin thing) and on ZG Attack mode the entire track might act like a "brake" as well as preventing severe destabilization/ providing good LAD. Then again if you say it doesn't work, whatever, I wasn't very expecting of it (esp. me using Revizer Revizer on that custom lol).

Before I lost it, my F230 never worked well enough for me to use it in a tournament (the only time I used it in free-play it got KOed by a random combo.)

But yeah, TAKARA: We only made one left-spin chrome wheel that weighs 31g. LOL if Hasbro made stuff that sucks (Esp. back in pre-limited 4D Metal Fury, Shogun steel is fine), Takara loves making broken stuff hahaha.

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Any combination using SA165EWD will get toasted by an F230 custom of either spin direction. Same-spin will get ZRG KOed with no problem, and opposite spin will lose by OS (well, unless you're using Duo F230, at which point a same-spin Synchrom custom might have small chance, but, like RDF3 pointed out, lightweight right-spin combinations aren't the real problem here).

TBD's points are solid but the way he pushes the anti-ban side so hard (heck he classifies Uwikz's statistics as irrelevant) is a bit on my nerves, and I'd like a calm discussion instead of a raging battle.

I called Uwik's statistic irrelevant because he was missing nearly half of the combinations used (almost all of which were from Maryland, arguably the region where F230 dominated most severely), and, besides that, there were several variables involved that worked entirely against F230 and likely blew the numbers way out of proportion.

I don't have anything against Uwik, obviously; I wasn't trying to insult him (I'm actually really impressed that he was able to draw up that list), but, for several reasons, a direct measurement of overall usage, especially with all the data it's missing, isn't a reliable source for determining the scale of the problem.

We're talking about banning a part here; there's going to be some serious conflict going on. Honestly, a "raging battle" is perfectly appropriate in this case (obviously belittling others and calling people names and stuff like that is absolutely unacceptable, but debating the issue with intensity is exactly what the situation calls for).

Calm discussion is fine, but, to put it bluntly, this isn't a discussion; we're talking about a change in the rules of ZRG format. It's an argument (that doesn't mean anybody should be hostile about it, but conflict is unavoidable).

Of course, I'm pretty numb to hostility in general, so if I'm offending anybody, I don't intend to, and I probably just don't realize it.

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Oops, miswrote Uwik's name as Uwikz's, sorry, typo XD

F230 is originally designed to counter spin-stealers, so SA165EWD of same or opposite spin isn't going to have any problem kicking it's butt. Especially with the sway GCF granted.

Wow, has anyone actually tried some of the more defensive chrome wheels (esp. the smooth,circular,slippery Revizer) on SA165EWD lol? Sure Duo beats the carp out of Dragooon SA165EWD, but Dragooon F230CF doesn't have as much as a problem drilling it into the dirt because Duo is only 41-43g (in a metagame with 58-75g combos this is light). Heavier chrome wheels might work then ,but I'm basing this off speculation, not test, and anyone can disprove it.

Here's my joke on this problem:

But yeah, TAKARA: We only made one left-spin chrome wheel that weighs 31g. LOL if Hasbro made stuff that sucks (Esp. back in pre-limited 4D Metal Fury, Shogun steel is fine), Takara loves making broken stuff hahaha.

.

So my proposal, even if it's painfully complex, is ban F230(G)CF on Dragooon in Zero-G only.

In BB-10 Attack knocks the carp out of F230(G)CF, Defense just walls it, and (assuming early contact is avoided as some of the more aggro ones can KO you) Stamina outspins it. IT'S ONLY DESIGNED TO BEAT SPIN STEAL IN BB-10 ANYWAY. Heck, the last time I used it a random Big Bang Pegasus (uncustomized) KO'ed it. Dragooon's advantage as the only left-spin chrome wheel (therefore, ZG-attack resistant) is nullified, and it's success rate decreases dramatically.

in Zero-G Right-spin F230GCF gets owned by ZG-Attack (less consistently) and more stable Dragooon combos and same-spin Stamina (though in ZG F230GCF is considerably stronger). However since Dragooon is the only left-spin chrome wheel, it's much more difficult to counter in Zero-G.

Those who say right-spin F230 are a problem aren't trying their utter best Tbh. Found this out in ULTIMATE BLAZE's thread where Echizen said Duo and Genbull^2 are problems too. I don't agree. Those are only for countering SA165EWD/B spin stealers in the first place, and they lose quickly against stamina or sway attack (little risky but works)

I do get a bit nervy after that statistics incident, but I'm cool now, I know it's just an argument and either side can always prove the other wrong.

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F230? my friend has one from bandid genbull, Takara brand, wasn't so impressive to me...Our arizona community isn't raging with it.

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Salesman: I'm sorry, sir but we just don't sell any giant beyblades on earth.
Optimus Prime: Well then. Comrades, roll out. We must begin our quest for the Enlarger to make beyblades bigger so we can fight our greatest enemy...boredom.

I don't think it should be banned because hardly anybody has a good F230, they are kinda expensive, and there really isn't that much Zero G tournaments anymore.

I don't think it should be banned because hardly anybody has a good F230, they are kinda expensive, and there isn't really any Zero G tournaments anymore.

Eh, it is winter; who says there will not be Zero-G format events when temperatures are more clement. I am also certain there was a good portion of Zero-G tournaments in 2014. Personally, in Montréal, we alternate between all formats, in order. I think Toronto does this as well.

Additionally, I think one of the problems is that hardly anybody has it. Only the few that have it can dominate and/or look for counters.

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“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

Personally, in Montréal, we alternate between all formats, in order. I think Toronto does this as well.

Nah, we've barely been following that pattern lately.

We have like only three Zero-G events of the 21 this year in Toronto, so us in Toronto haven't seen them that much in action this year. When we actually had them, I haven't really seen any actual complete tournament dominance with F230. For the most part as long as you go for same-spin stamina against them, you're safe. Even so, there are very Limited counters, so that's one of the ban's pros.

Still, not too sure what to say; I'm torn.

I remember seeing a battle between MSF Genbull Dragoon F230GCF and Duo Cancer SA165EWD. It was endless, I think the battle finally last after like, fifteen rounds or something like that. I didn't experimented a Zero-G tournament yet, but for Standard-Limited, I think that F230 isn't a menace.

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Shido (or whatever your name is now, haha), from looking at winning combinations, it would seem that F230 combinations take all three top spots in most of your Zero-G tournaments.

I still hold my stance on this issue; the thing is barely counterable, to the point where its abuse is extremely practical for the user and ultimately unhealthy for a metagame. Zero-G becomes a game that revolves around beating F230, which is the pattern we saw with Libra, and the pattern we saw with Basalt.

Without F230, this format could be the best out there; one ban could turn the whole game around, and I absolutely, 100% guarantee you that bringing this thing down will do only good things for the Zero-G meta.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

While we've been debating this issue for over a year now, people who purchased F230 at its height have had more than enough opportunities to use it in tournaments (and place), so the whole "buying an expensive part for no reason" argument is fairly invalid. With that argument out of the way, there's really no reason not to ban it aside from members who have it wanting to continue to win.

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Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

Shido (or whatever your name is now, haha), from looking at winning combinations, it would seem that F230 combinations take all three top spots in most of your Zero-G tournaments.

I still hold my stance on this issue; the thing is barely counterable, to the point where its abuse is extremely practical for the user and ultimately unhealthy for a metagame. Zero-G becomes a game that revolves around beating F230, which is the pattern we saw with Libra, and the pattern we saw with Basalt.

Without F230, this format could be the best out there; one ban could turn the whole game around, and I absolutely, 100% guarantee you that bringing this thing down will do only good things for the Zero-G meta.

I'm not going to lie I think you believe F230 is far more "strong" in the meta than it truly is. "Barely Counterable" is a strong statement. There are many tests of customizations that can beat it. Also the meta hasn't really shifted to trying to counter F230 at all. At the last NC event that was Zero G no one was attaching a bey to specifically counter F230. And in a tournament scenario I've seen F230 lose a lot more than you think. You keep acting like it is completely unbeatable and over powered while it really isn't in a tournament. It's a safer choice to attach but it isn't unstoppable. I witnessed Dark_Mousy lose to a Right Spin Sway with Dragooon F230 months ago. It's not an auto win. I honestly feel this discussion is getting pointless to keep bringing back at this point. The thread has been up for a good year and no talk of it getting banned has occurred. I feel like this has become people rambling on and complaining about a part bringing the same information they did a year ago. And honestly even if the committee deemed this customization overpowered and banned it what would be the point now? The tournament scene has declined and beyblade has been dead for quite some time now. I mean if it was going to get banned feels late to me any way. Honestly this is just my opinion.

Shido (or whatever your name is now, haha), from looking at winning combinations, it would seem that F230 combinations take all three top spots in most of your Zero-G tournaments.

I still hold my stance on this issue; the thing is barely counterable, to the point where its abuse is extremely practical for the user and ultimately unhealthy for a metagame. Zero-G becomes a game that revolves around beating F230, which is the pattern we saw with Libra, and the pattern we saw with Basalt.

Without F230, this format could be the best out there; one ban could turn the whole game around, and I absolutely, 100% guarantee you that bringing this thing down will do only good things for the Zero-G meta.

I'm not going to lie I think you believe F230 is far more "strong" in the meta than it truly is. "Barely Counterable" is a strong statement. There are many tests of customizations that can beat it. Also the meta hasn't really shifted to trying to counter F230 at all. At the last NC event that was Zero G no one was attaching a bey to specifically counter F230. And in a tournament scenario I've seen F230 lose a lot more than you think. You keep acting like it is completely unbeatable and over powered while it really isn't in a tournament. It's a safer choice to attach but it isn't unstoppable. I witnessed Dark_Mousy lose to a Right Spin Sway with Dragooon F230 months ago. It's not an auto win. I honestly feel this discussion is getting pointless to keep bringing back at this point. The thread has been up for a good year and no talk of it getting banned has occurred. I feel like this has become people rambling on and complaining about a part bringing the same information they did a year ago. And honestly even if the committee deemed this customization overpowered and banned it what would be the point now? The tournament scene has declined and beyblade has been dead for quite some time now. I mean if it was going to get banned feels late to me any way. Honestly this is just my opinion.

I think that was well said. To add, alot of people agreeing with the ban (such as a few posts up) don't have or have never used or even seen the part in person. That doesn't make them qualified to really have a full opinion. Considering that we really have no decision on this, too- all of the facts have been presented, so keeping the argument going just for the sake of it, isn't really doing much. It's out of our hands, at this point.

I don't enjoy posting here since it's the "Unpopular Opinion on the Internet", which results in getting alot of hate just for my opinion- but there isn't really anything to add or new information anymore, just repetition. All I'm really going to say here- I don't plan on arguing.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Thunder Dome,

There are virtually zero combinations capable of winning consistently in testing, and those that are are generally unreliable against the meta as a whole.

Yah, I can believe a right-spin ZRG Attack combination beat it; however, it was most likely due to luck, since you and I have both watched Dragooon F230 trash ZRG Attack in either direction at least half a dozen times in competition. I wouldn't call that consistent.

I'd say barely counterable is a perfect description - it isn't unbeatable, but its so close to unbeatable that it becomes the most practical option for nearly every situation.

Do you know why nobody was attempting to directly counter F230? Because its impractical. Really the only combinations that can consistently beat F230 customs are SA165TB Stamina customs (and arguably SA165BWD, but it's not nearly as realiable), and using those are extremely risky because 1) you've only got a 50% chance of getting your opponent's spin direction right, and 2) especially if you use Dragooon SA165TB, you're liable to lose against just about anything else if your opponent decides not to use F230.

That said, countering it directly is extremely risky and impractical. Honestly, probably the safest way to compete against F230 in Zero-G is to just use F230 yourself, which is especially bad.

Also, no offence at all to you guys or anyone else opposing the ban, but it would be nice if you had some good, solid evidence that the part wasn't a problem - I've provided plenty of evidence, in testing, tournament results, and interviews with users who have personally seen the part abused in competition. It seems like you guys are just basing your argument on the assumption that I'm blowing the problem out of proportion.

Oh, and to add, pretty much every seriously competitive player owns a Takara F230 at this point, including almost every single regular player in NC, so I wouldn't say the part is scarce - nearly everyone in support of the ban who had posted anything substantial does own the part.

I agree with Leone19; this discussion had basically just come down to repetition of what everybody has already been saying. Perhaps we should just leave the topic alone as of now and let the committee decide (although, they haven't hinted at making a decision for a while, so I'm kind of worried that if we leave this alone nothing will ever happen, but I guess there's no getting around that).

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Oh dear lord this issue is still going?

I'd say get over it and agree on something, 27 pages isn't a few to boot.

I still stand that the part in question isn't broken, it's the combining of F230 and GCF (and/or dragooon) that does the hammer. I's rather ban that combo (_______ Dragooon F230(G)CF) and kill the source of the issue rather than ban the part itself and hurt creativity of parts (though F230 hasn't worked well with any other bottom so far)

Right, that's my view.

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Thunder Dome,

There are virtually zero combinations capable of winning consistently in testing, and those that are are generally unreliable against the meta as a whole.

Yah, I can believe a right-spin ZRG Attack combination beat it; however, it was most likely due to luck, since you and I have both watched Dragooon F230 trash ZRG Attack in either direction at least half a dozen times in competition. I wouldn't call that consistent.

I'd say barely counterable is a perfect description - it isn't unbeatable, but its so close to unbeatable that it becomes the most practical option for nearly every situation.

Do you know why nobody was attempting to directly counter F230? Because its impractical. Really the only combinations that can consistently beat F230 customs are SA165TB Stamina customs (and arguably SA165BWD, but it's not nearly as realiable), and using those are extremely risky because 1) you've only got a 50% chance of getting your opponent's spin direction right, and 2) especially if you use Dragooon SA165TB, you're liable to lose against just about anything else if your opponent decides not to use F230.

That said, countering it directly is extremely risky and impractical. Honestly, probably the safest way to compete against F230 in Zero-G is to just use F230 yourself, which is especially bad.

Also, no offence at all to you guys or anyone else opposing the ban, but it would be nice if you had some good, solid evidence that the part wasn't a problem - I've provided plenty of evidence, in testing, tournament results, and interviews with users who have personally seen the part abused in competition. It seems like you guys are just basing your argument on the assumption that I'm blowing the problem out of proportion.

Oh, and to add, pretty much every seriously competitive player owns a Takara F230 at this point, including almost every single regular player in NC, so I wouldn't say the part is scarce - nearly everyone in support of the ban who had posted anything substantial does own the part.

I agree with Leone19; this discussion had basically just come down to repetition of what everybody has already been saying. Perhaps we should just leave the topic alone as of now and let the committee decide (although, they haven't hinted at making a decision for a while, so I'm kind of worried that if we leave this alone nothing will ever happen, but I guess there's no getting around that).

I hate to keep bringing this thread back up, but you kinda made this post as a response to mine so I will respond back.

This might sound rude, but I personally trust tournament results way more than your testings and other people's testing. Tournaments are win the combination is fully put to use and see how it fairs when there are 2 players with different ideas of how they can win the match and it ultimately leads to who picks a better way to launch and who has a little luck on their side. In your testing if you are doing it by your self it is incredibly easy to bank directly at the customization. Like when using SA165 TB against F230 GCF/CF. Although in an actual situation it is much more difficult to produce the correct bank. Also not to mention how easy it is for your opponent to launch in a different area of the stadium. I remember at the last Zero G event in North Carolina playing against Titan Tite in the finals, he was using Genbull Dragooon F230 GCF and I was using Killerken Dragooon SA165 TB. He was trying to use your banking method to defeat my custom. Although once I realized he was trying to do this method I immediately started launching towards the walls and avoiding the center on initial launch. The "win technique" that you said worked in testings doesn't always have the same results in events. Also I feel Dragooon SA165 BWD is still strong in this format. It can out spin Right Spin E230 MB (which is still used in NC even in Zero G), left spin stamina, right spin sway, even some left spin sway. Also Dragooon SA165 TB outspins almost any Left Spin Combo I can think of, plus some right spin. And don't even let me start on how much damage sway attack does to the meta.

I wouldn't say it has no chance at all or that it was complete luck. I saw it KO F230 early game, which is what it was suppose to do. It honestly felt like a 50/50 match up. I mean either Sway got the KO or Dragooon out spun, it isn't as hard to believe as you think.

It isn't even close to unbeatable, Left Spin SA165 TB/BWD, Left Spin Sway, Right Spin Sway and even right spin Stamina such as Duo B;D and Duo SA165 EWD. I've seen all beat it. Like I said this keeps going back to I think you are over exaggerating how good F230 is. Yes I admit it is a good part, and I'll admit it is one of the better parts in the meta game at the moment, but I certainly do not believe it is as strong of a part that you make it out and have misinformed others to believe.

You just said a few posts up that everyone is trying to counter it, then you say no one was trying to counter it. It shouldn't be that hard to predict or counter if your opponent is using F230 or not if it as prominent as it is right? That's the meta call I made during that event and that is arguably how I won. I noticed a few users who used Dragooon F230 a lot and I attached Dragooon SA165 TB. I don't feel like F230 mirrors are the safest if you are almost positive what your opponent is using. Personally I don't feel like most mirror matches are very skillful, especially if you are using CF/GCF in Zero G.

No one has even touched on the fact that many have an F230 for a while, not really sure why you brought it up.

Conclusion
Let me sum up my opinions.
.F230 Should Not Be Banned
.It's not unstoppable and a lot less reliable than most believe it to be
.Most people are honestly bandwagoning your opinion, like no joke it feels like you have a fan club around here. Some people have do not own/haven't seen/haven't played against F230 and they post here. Also since you like to rely on tests so much how many people have actually tested? I've seen two to three out of all these pages. I feel like you don't have a lot of "testing" evidence besides your own, and personally I feel like you are more or less bias to it being banned anyway. Thats another reason I don't like tests as much, if it's your combination or something you want to win 9/10 you will be more towards it winning. And after the incident at one event.
.Dark_Mousy mainly has rotated between Duo/Genbull/Dragooon F230 GCF/CF for many Zero G events, and last time I checked he hasn't won a Zero G for quite some time. If F230 is so unstoppable wouldn't it logically make since that he won every event?
.Stop referencing Libra and Basalt Meta Periods, you nor I played in those and I think it is ridiculous for you to keep bringing those up when you don't have the tournament knowledge for those.
.And once again I still believe you blow F230's actual strength out of proportion.

Basically what I think.

What if it comes from someone who isn't on a bandwagon with TBD? You've /seen/ it beat F230. Seen.

How often do you see it beaten? In yugioh I've beaten Necloth (Tier 0 deck), that doesn't mean it isn't broken. OP doesn't mean, "Wins 100% of the time." Come on people. The committee isn't doing much on this topic from what I've seen.

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

It isn't even close to unbeatable, Left Spin SA165 TB/BWD, Left Spin Sway, Right Spin Sway and even right spin Stamina such as Duo B;D and Duo SA165 EWD. I've seen all beat it.

And you and I have both seen F230 beat every one of those customs in competition like a dozen times (save Dragooon TB). When a combination only beats another combination like 1/3 of the time (which is more often than I've seen the combinations you've listed beat F230), it isn't a reliable counter.

If Dragooon F230 is losing to Duo B : D or Duo SA165EWD, the Track needs to be cleaned. A properly functioning F230 will beat both by a mile.

I brought up the number of people who own the part because you used the argument above that nobody supporting me has experience with it. I was making the case that nearly every single one of them does.

Dark hasn't won in a while because 1) we haven't had a ZRG tournament in 5 months, 2) you and I both know his F230 isn't in the best condition and 3) in virtually every single case in which he's lost, it happened in an F230 vs. F230 mirror match.

Dragooon TB is pretty much complete garbage against virtually everything (save left-spin sway, but, as you especially should know, with a good launch it's not that difficult to take down). Dragooon BWD has pretty much the worst precession of any spin stealer in any format (to the point where right-spin SA165GF sway can OS it), it's ridiculously easy to ZRG KO, and its Stamina against same-spin opponents isn't really that exceptional. To say the least, neither is among the most reliable customs in the format.

I agree that tournament results are more reliable in most cases than testing, and tournament results are what I've used the majority of the time here.

Be completely honest with yourself here; how often is F230 stopped from topping an event by something other than itself? Your win with Dragooon TB in October was the first of its kind in NC tournament history; not once has anyone spammed a working F230 in our meta and lost because their opponent was able to counter it directly.

I'm not saying F230 is unbeatable; I never have. Nothing is unbeatable.

You're right, I didn't play in the Libra or Basalt metas, but I've read just about everything available on them and I understand one core concept: neither Libra nor Basalt was unbeatable, and yet they were ban worthy. They were too hard to beat; they distorted the meta so severely, that the game essentially revolved around beating them.

That is exactly the same situation we've seen with F230 over the last year and a half.

Here are the very core points of my argument for F230's ban:

1) F230 has dominated Zero-G events for the near entirety of its existence, and it has completely overrun the metagames of some of the most competitive regions in the world.

2) Its presence distorts the balance of the game; its versatility makes it the most practical option in nearly every situation, and its abuse renders conventional Attack, Stamina and Defense practically useless in a given meta.

3) It is far, far too difficult to counter; absurd amounts of time have been spent by myself and other users attempting to find a consistent, competitive counter to it, and as of now none with sufficient practicality exist.

4) According to the criteria applied to Libra and Basalt, F230 should be banned.

Now, I'm going to ask this question again, because I've asked it about a dozen times and I've never been given a solid answer; why do you want F230 to remain legal?

Just think about that for a minute; why do you want it to stay? Is there any real reason to put up with a custom that causes to much disruption?

Nobody on this site can deny that, if F230 were banned, the Zero-G meta would become exceedingly more dynamic and knowledge-intensive. If F230 were gone, the game would be better - it's just that simple.

EDIT: Well said, DrPepsiDew.

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Am I correct in saying that everyone is trying to outlast a bey with f230 spin track? Because if so, maybe we need to turn our thinking around. Maybe instead of trying to outlast it, we should try to knock it out. Stamina is meaningless if you don't stay in the stadium. In fact, as long as you can find something with more weight, you can tilt the stadium enough for a stadium out.

In fact, I am working on it right now, and I will post the my best results when I'm done. And before you start hounding me (I guess again) about not having written proof, or a video, or other stuff like that, if you doubt me, try it yourself. If it adds up to about the results I get, you know I wasn't lying.

Am I correct in saying that everyone is trying to outlast a bey with f230 spin track? Because if so, maybe we need to turn our thinking around. Maybe instead of trying to outlast it, we should try to knock it out. Stamina is meaningless if you don't stay in the stadium. In fact, as long as you can find something with more weight, you can tilt the stadium enough for a stadium out.

The thing is, unlike Standard and Limited which are played in a BB-10, F230 is harder to KO in Zero-G. You can never really guarantee that you'd get the knockout on F230 in a Zero-G stadium. Whereas you'd have an almost guaranteed chance of attack beating F230 in Limited, it wouldn't be the case here.

Personally, right now, I think if anything, it's Dragooon F230 we should give a ban. Like, with right-spin F230, even the least competitive stamina types can beat them. Like I mentioned in the Winning Combinations thread a little while ago, at Sway Central, LMAO's Duo F230GCF lost against JJdad's stock Burn Fireblaze, while left-spin stamina against Dragooon F230 can even be considered a risky choice.

First of all, thank you for an intriging insight into the beyblade tournament scene since I stopped competing. I want to make clear that though I have no intention of affecting the WBO-sanctioned rules, or any decision behind any changes or lack thereof, I couldn't help but notice a distinct passage from your argument:

The next area to see an invasion of this Track, was Maryland, home of 3 of our top ten players (Arupaeo, Stars, and geetster99). In this area, before F230 was widely used in MD, a specific player named beymaster15963 got lucky enough to pull an orange F230 from a random booster. At his next event, he abused Dragooon F230CF the entire time, sweeping Arupaeo, geetster99, Stars, Tech, and Sniper, and taking 1st place undefeated.

This user had never placed in a WBO sanctioned tournament before, let alone taken first against such skilled players, but by abusing Dragooon F230CF, he was able to overcome some of the top players in the country (including the geetster99, who is currently the #1 player in the USA) effortlessly. That, my friends, should categorize any part as "overpowered."

I feel that this anecdote is insufficient as evidence to categorise a part as "overpowered". Ostensibly, it is impactful and a rigourous example, but it lacks gravitas. I feel that if a part was released, then there should be no excuse why any person at the tournament could not have won with, or without the F230. The fact that beymaster15963 had not placed before and the other players were deemed to have done well in the past should have no value. It appears the success of the winner was attributed to F230, but if it truly was, then if someone "more skilled" would have won with F230, then it would suggest that this example would not support the argument for part being "overpowered".

I hope my point was understandable as I had difficulties wording it. I just wanted to make my point in that context only. I've not played since 2011 and lack knowledge of anything 4D and after, but can still offer my views on meta-gaming in general as I've played in what I believe was the UK metagame at its competitive peak (ControL_, Blitz, LeeDraciel, Hell Kid, Enzoxs, ThePokeBlader, Madmuppet98, BeyHyperK!LLeR, Cyber Kerberous and at least 5-10 other players capable of consistent results).

Am I correct in saying that everyone is trying to outlast a bey with f230 spin track? Because if so, maybe we need to turn our thinking around. Maybe instead of trying to outlast it, we should try to knock it out. Stamina is meaningless if you don't stay in the stadium. In fact, as long as you can find something with more weight, you can tilt the stadium enough for a stadium out.

The thing is, unlike Standard and Limited which are played in a BB-10, F230 is harder to KO in Zero-G. You can never really guarantee that you'd get the knockout on F230 in a Zero-G stadium. Whereas you'd have an almost guaranteed chance of attack beating F230 in Limited, it wouldn't be the case here.

Personally, right now, I think if anything, it's Dragooon F230 we should give a ban. Like, with right-spin F230, even the least competitive stamina types can beat them. Like I mentioned in the Winning Combinations thread a little while ago, at Sway Central, LMAO's Duo F230GCF lost against JJdad's stock Burn Fireblaze, while left-spin stamina against Dragooon F230 can even be considered a risky choice.

Don't forget that Metal Sharp is anti-sway so that is why I was unable to Sway KO him.

My views have changed slightly on this issue, I don't think a ban is necessary anymore, right spin F230 can beat left spin F230, a really good sway attacker is able to beat a left spin F230, another left spin stamina combo (Genbull Dragoon SA165BWD) is able to beat F230, and even in a few rare cases a right spin set up such as Genbull Genbull SA165BWD is able to beat it. Basically, all I'm saying now is that F230 should not be banned, it's fine as it is. In Toronto, no one has really much trouble beating, is it the same for people elsewhere or not?

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