We've tried TB counters before (it was very brief, but I know they've been tried); the difficulty with TB counters is you only have a 50/50 shot of getting the spin direction right, and even then if your opponent can get a nice launch off they can seriously mess you up.

It's especially hard against Dragooon F230CF/GCF, because at that point a win via destabilization for the F230 user is much easier, and TB on Dragooon is an absolutely awful setup for use against anything except the target custom, so if you didn't guess your opponent's setup exactly right you're toast.

It's more the element of high risk that makes countering it an issue than anything else.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Weve tried TB. The /one/ tournament my brother (oHMockingbird) played in, he used Killerken(?) Dragooon F230 GCF, sweeped for first place and stopped playing. That was his first tournament and in the same tournament, Kaboom!!!, Havoc, and I were playing. (Using us as experienced and competitive players)

EDIT: We tried Duo SA165 TB, Genbull^2 SA165 TB (me), and someone even pulled out Killerken Dragooon SA165 TB out of hope

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

And what were you using below the stadiums ?

Cardboard, that's what we use anyway

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

Yah, I really really don't think cardboard makes any difference at all. I've tested with it a bunch, and the swaying motion isn't hindered in the slightest (plus, I have no idea how cardboard is supposed to help TB customs against F230 combos - that's all destabilization, not ZRG KO).

And, just on a side note, I came across this on Beywiki today in the "Why Libra Was Banned" section of the Libra DF145BS article:

The game revolved around defeating Libra, and that isn't what a good metagame looks like.

Wouldn't you say the ZRG metagame revolves around trying to take down F230 combinations? I mean come on, we're trying to hold a tournament literally for the purpose of attempting to take F230 out.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

(I cannot prove that these are effective combos as if, I either don't have the parts or i'm busy with school) as for my two cents on the "combination sweeping the nation" and honestly seeing all these results, it is simply ruining the game. Although I do have some combo's that could (maybe) make this beyblade seem meek. Combo 1; Genbu Orochi 85 TB. I have actually tested it with all my current beys, even the one beyblade that I had that was pretty good (Thermal Dragonis 145WD) and it beat 'em to say the least I know it's probably outclassed, but yoloright? (Genbu on top BTW). Combo 2; MF Bull Horogium/Tempo 145/135/90 <any variant of the "D'S" (SD WD ETC.)>. Combo 3; MF Blitz/Omega Capricorn 100/90 LF/R2F/RF/MF/XF/WF (pick your poison).

That's all I can supply, although they're just some things I thought would be good, they may get sent to the gates of hades, cuz they suck

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(I cannot prove that these are effective combos as if, I either don't have the parts or i'm busy with school) as for my two cents on the "combination sweeping the nation" and honestly seeing all these results, it is simply ruining the game. Although I do have some combo's that could (maybe) make this beyblade seem meek. Combo 1; Genbu Orochi 85 TB. I have actually tested it with all my current beys, even the one beyblade that I had that was pretty good (Thermal Dragonis 145WD) and it beat 'em to say the least I know it's probably outclassed, but yoloright? (Genbu on top BTW). Combo 2; MF Bull Horogium/Tempo 145/135/90 <any variant of the "D'S" (SD WD ETC.)>. Combo 3; MF Blitz/Omega Capricorn 100/90 LF/R2F/RF/MF/XF/WF (pick your poison).

That's all I can supply, although they're just some things I thought would be good, they may get sent to the gates of hades.

In the old days you can actually get a prize beyblade directly as they offer have extra already opened boxes for specific beys for only 1.5 times the price of a random booster, the offer problem is not even an issue.

Probably now it would be hard to even lay a hand on a random, but for the majority that are still playing should not be much of a problem.

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Let the wings of hope spread to the whole world!

New story :
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Yoku-s-s...ary-Hereos

Can anyone try Salamandra^2 F230CF/GCF against Revizer Dragoon F230CF/GCF? i feel like Salamander has a realy good shape for right spin, spin steal so if anyone has the parts please test it.

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Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder; Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF & Garuda G3 
Vortex Bearing.

Bladin' since 2k12

Saramanda is really unbalanced and light, it's not really good.
Edit: Oops

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“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

Saramanda is actually on the heavier side for chrome wheels, it's just too unbalanced to be of much use as a stamina/balance synchrom.

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Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

Can you just try it??? please

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Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder; Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF & Garuda G3 
Vortex Bearing.

Bladin' since 2k12

Can you just try it??? please

I'm sure anyone who can find the time and anyone who owns stadium wouldn't mind testing, however, Saramanda Saramanda wouldn't be the best choice of Chrome Wheel in this case scenario, and as The Supreme One also mentioned Saramanda is on the heavier side, as well. That in mind, here are some of the proven and known to be best Chrome Wheels put together on F230(G)CF setups:

~ Genbull and Dragoon.
~ Reviser and Dragoon.
~ Killerken and Dragoon.
~ Genbull and Genbull.

Wyvang and Genbull was once mentioned, although I'm not too sure about how good it actually was. Correct me if I'm wrong, Maryland Bladers, although I once remember seeing a Saramanda Dragoon F230 setup in a Winning Combinations thread post, too. In addition to that, Duo_F230(G)CF setups are awfully competitive, as well.

midnight, you're right on that, stars has some strange, inexplicable preference towards it.

These are the incomplete F230 comparatives I began just before school, which I'd also originally hoped to have followed up with comparatives of a silicone lubricant-sprayed Hasbro F230. However, I've not been able to find the time to finish up the last few tests of this comparison, and my chances of ever actually getting to complete that silicone experiment are looking slimmer every day, so I've just decided to post what I have and move on.


Equipment:
BBG-03 Zero-G Stadium Attack Type
Beylauncher + Launcher Rubber
Beylauncher L/R + Launcher Rubber

Conditions:
Cardboard playing surface
Duo in Stamina Mode
SA165 in Normal Mode
E230 in "Boost Mode" or "Upper Mode"
Hasbro F230 Red 1
Takara-Tomy F230 Brown 2
Takara-Tomy F230 Orange

**All F230s used in these tests were wiped of all dust, inside and out, with a dry cloth prior to testing.**

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Genbu Genbu F230GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
- Both Beys launched straight
GG: 22/30 (1 OS, 21 KO)
DG: 8/30 (6 OS, 2 KO)
Ties: 0
F230GCF Win Rate: 73.3%


Genbu Genbu F230GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
- Both Beys launched straight
GG: 14/30 (2 OS, 12 KO)
DG: 16/30 (13 OS, 3 KO)
Ties: 1
F230GCF Win Rate: 46.7%

(A little better than before... Maybe I've improved, ha ha?)


Kraken Dragooon F230GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
- Both Beys launched straight
KD: 2/30 (1 OS, 1 KO)
DG: 28/30 (23 OS, 5 KO)
Ties: 1
F230GCF Win Rate: 6.7%


Kraken Dragooon F230GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
- Both Beys launched straight
KD: 1/30 (1 OS)
DG: 29/30 (26 OS, 3 KO)
Ties: 1
F230GCF Win Rate: 3.3%


Kraken Dragooon F230GCF vs. MSF-L Bahamoote Dragoon E230GCF:
- Launches alternated
- Both Beys' launches banked
KD: 18/30 (4 OS, 14 KO)
BD: 12/30 (3 OS, 9 KO)
Ties: 0
F230GCF Win Rate: 60%

Despite being red, I noticed F230GCF's swaying pattern was more tame and better controlled than E230GCF's, which resulted in Bahamoote Dragoon's exiting of the stadium on several occasions.

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Genbu Genbu F230GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
- Both Beys launched straight
GG: 16/30 (2 OS, 14 KO)
DG: 14/30 (6 OS, 8 KO)
Ties: 1
F230GCF Win Rate: 53.3%


Genbu Genbu F230GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
- Both Beys launched straight
GG: 12/30 (1 OS, 11 KO)
DG: 18/30 (17 OS, 1 KO)
Ties: 0
F230GCF Win Rate: 40.0%


Kraken Dragooon F230GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
- Both Beys launched straight
KD: 5/30 (4 OS, 1 KO)
DG: 25/30 (17 OS, 8 KO)
Ties: 1
F230GCF Win Rate: 16.7%


Kraken Dragooon F230GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
- Both Beys launched straight
KD: 3/30 (1 OS, 2 KO)
DG: 27/30 (25 OS, 2 KO)
Ties: 1
F230GCF Win Rate: 10.0%


Kraken Dragooon F230GCF vs. MSF-H Bahamoote Dragoon E230GCF:
- Launches alternated
- Both Beys' launches banked
KD: 17/30 (7 OS, 10 KO)
BD: 13/30 (3 OS, 10 KO)
Ties: 2
F230GCF Win Rate: 56.7%

Before I began testing, the brown F230 spun almost as freely and for as long as the orange F230. However, by the completion of the all these tests, the brown F230's free-spinning ability had very apparently deteriorated, and could no longer spin for even as long as the red Hasbro F230 by the end of its tests. The brown F230 also displayed a tamer movement pattern initially comparable to that of the red F230, though, that too nearly vanished as the trials continued.

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Kraken Dragooon F230GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
- Both Beys launched straight
KD: 22/30 (20 OS, 2 KO)
DG: 8/30 (2 OS, 6 KO)
Ties: 3
F230GCF Win Rate: 73.3%


Kraken Dragooon F230GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
- Both Beys launched straight
KD: 18/30 (18 OS, KO)
DG: 12/30 (6 OS, 6 KO)
Ties: 3
F230GCF Win Rate: 60.0%

The previous tests with the brown F230 and red F230 led me to believe that the best F230 would have the tamest movement pattern of them all on a CF/GCF Bottom, but that was not the case at all. The orange F230 actually moved much more wildly and higher up the slop of the stadium than the previous two in all of its trials. The orange F230's performance visibly deteriorated slightly as its tests progressed, but still spun for longer than either of the other two colors by the end.

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I probably won't be able to contribute to this discussion with anymore tests going forward, so yeah, sryz. But the next time I find myself at another Zero-G tournament, you can bet your hat that I'll be "spamming" at least one of these F230GCF setups with the orange variant in either spin-direction. *puts on black cape and joins the dark side*

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

Wow, the orange F230 only hit 60% against Duo TB?

That's mega weird. Was it new?

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

I'll admit, in a tournament situation, I'd have probably slightly tilted my launcher and weakened my launch strength in order to reduce my chances of self-KO or being KO'd by the opposing Bey. As you can see, half of the wins on the part of Duo were by KO, which included potential self-KOs on the part of F230GCF, and I even mention that the orange F230's movement seemed to be more wild than the movement of both the brown and red ones.

As for the condition of the orange F230: I'd say it's been around the block, but that would be a literal understatement. xD I used it in these tests and whatever other unofficial tests I conducted with it, plus, because it used to be Cannon's, it was used in all of the tests he conducted in his F230 Comparison thread, which I linked the brown and orange F230s to under my "Conditions," as well as all the other tests he ever used it in.

To say the least, it's used.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

let me say if salamandra2 f230gcf beats dragoon f230gcf , you all gotta give me some beyblade parts

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Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder; Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF & Garuda G3 
Vortex Bearing.

Bladin' since 2k12

let me say if salamandra2 f230gcf beats dragoon f230gcf , you all gotta give me some beyblade parts

What?
No one will straight up give away parts.

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[font="Proxima Nova Regular", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/font]

I'll admit, in a tournament situation, I'd have probably slightly tilted my launcher and weakened my launch strength in order to reduce my chances of self-KO or being KO'd by the opposing Bey. As you can see, half of the wins on the part of Duo were by KO, which included potential self-KOs on the part of F230GCF, and I even mention that the orange F230's movement seemed to be more wild than the movement of both the brown and red ones.

As for the condition of the orange F230: I'd say it's been around the block, but that would be a literal understatement. xD I used it in these tests and whatever other unofficial tests I conducted with it, plus, because it used to be Cannon's, it was used in all of the tests he conducted in his F230 Comparison thread, which I linked the brown and orange F230s to under my "Conditions," as well as all the other tests he ever used it in.

To say the least, it's used.

Ah, that makes sense.

Well thanks for the tests! Thanks especially for using cardboard.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Shouldn't we add a poll to this thread?

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Shouldn't we add a poll to this thread?

There is in the other topic for F230. I don't think it be very efficient, since it's not a public decision.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

So, I really don't mean to be pushy here, but can anybody on the committee perhaps give a little bit of an update on how this proposal is going? There hasn't been much mention of it for a while, and it's still shredding ZRG tournaments.

Just wondering.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Yeah well I haven't heard of any activity on this matter lately.

Sadly, my orange F230 doesn't really compare to Cannon's or TheBlackDragon's so I can't help any further.

But I can still say this: I'd rather ban Dragooon on F230 rather than the part as whole, because if the part is banned, it affects other combinations like right-spin F230, etc etc. Whereas if Dragooon F230 is banned it only affects that gamebreaking combination and nothing else.

What about Kei though? As far as I know he is the main proponent of the anti-ban side.

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I really hope I'm not beating a dead horse here (please forgive me if I am), but I still think that this thing needs to go.

From what I can see in wining combinations, while there haven't been nearly as many ZRG tournaments lately, it's still completely wrecking them.

Yes, it is counterable, but it's extremely, extremely difficult. Basalt and Libra weren't unbeatable; they were just really, really tough to beat, to the point where using anything else was basically a death sentence, and the metagame revolved around beating them. That is exactly what we've seen with F230; I see no difference in the situation.

The Zero-G metagame would undoubtedly be much healthier and more versatile with this thing gone. I personally see absolutely no reason to let it stay; it does nothing for the game except choke its versatility, significantly decrease the importance of strategy and skill, and put a ridiculous amount of weight on the superiority of one's collection.

I just think its bad news. I know I've been pushing for this for like a year and a half now, but I would still love to see it happen.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Ok. I have read through this post, and decided it's my time to speak and share my opinion on f230.
First of all, I do not own a zero g attack type stadium. I own the hasbro version of it (modified cut out holes and no yellow cover, also weights to balance the stadium). It works decently and I get similar results to what the regular zero g stadium gets.

Also, I do own a standard attack type stadium (bb10).
Early this year I went to target and picked up the golem behemoth two pack *with the oh so crappy red f230*. This is my only f230 to date, and it works amazingly. For some reason it used to squeak, but does not anymore and spins decently, if not well.

My f230, if used in a correct combo, pwns. I use it with phantom and GCF and it owns all my beys in my shogun steel sway stadium (remember it is modifiedto work like the original!). It is merciless to both synchromes and 4d beys, usually swaying the opponent out.

The f230 is a better substitute for a regular 230. It provides more stamina and allows benter overhang attack on lower beys. In my attack type stadium, phantom f230 WD is near impossible to beat. Twisted tempo th170 wd is owned by it, hades kerbecs bd 145 ds, and so many more combos are owned by it. It's definitely not unbeatable but it is a useful combo.

Honestly, it is a great part- if not overpowered- that has excellent use in standard and zero g. Unfortunatly, it has drawbacks- if used in specific combos it is like the user has already won the tournament. In my opinion, if there is so much trouble for the part- don't ban it. From the way Leone19 and others were defending the part, iit seems they've already bought the TKTMY orange version and would like to know they did not waste their money.

Solution: unban f230 but only for specific combos.

There. I don't see why there needs to be a whole thread about this.

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The only way to win is to not lose