World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Other Closed Threads

The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play

Jul. 24, 2014  5:29 PM
 
What would you do at that point if something that Overpowered is allowed to slide, then most hosts will be asking their participants not to use it.
Jul. 24, 2014  5:31 PM
 
Actually, YukoRay14 was the first to use it at Anime North 2013. And no, there weren't people who just knew about it, he used it first. At least I'm kind of sure anyways.

Wouldn't part availabiltity suggest that it doesn't need to be banned? If a part is difficult to obtain, unlike Libra and Basalt, it makes it where less people want to get it.
Jul. 24, 2014  5:31 PM
 
(Jul. 24, 2014  5:29 PM)Lord Wrote: What would you do at that point if something that Overpowered is allowed to slide, then most hosts will be asking their participants not to use it.

But if the combination has been around for so long and it's currently "sliding"-
Quote:You can't necisarily say that when currently, not every region or event for that matter, does that.

Most currently don't, to my understanding.
Jul. 24, 2014  5:36 PM
 
(Jul. 24, 2014  5:31 PM)Echizen Wrote: Actually, YukoRay14 was the first to use it at Anime North 2013. And no, there weren't people who just knew about it, he used it first. At least I'm kind of sure anyways.

Wouldn't part availabiltity suggest that it doesn't need to be banned? If a part is difficult to obtain, unlike Libra and Basalt, it makes it where less people want to get it.
Wasn't it tested before then? I only thought that because he was yelling "You Stole My Combo!" at Stormscorpio1. Actually I'm pretty sure they only used F230 in the finals, but Yuko used it a lot during the real tournament, and it got him to place.
Jul. 24, 2014  5:40 PM
 
(Jul. 24, 2014  5:36 PM)Lord Wrote:
(Jul. 24, 2014  5:31 PM)Echizen Wrote: Actually, YukoRay14 was the first to use it at Anime North 2013. And no, there weren't people who just knew about it, he used it first. At least I'm kind of sure anyways.

Wouldn't part availabiltity suggest that it doesn't need to be banned? If a part is difficult to obtain, unlike Libra and Basalt, it makes it where less people want to get it.
Wasn't it tested before then? I only thought that because he was yelling "You Stole My Combo!" at Stormscorpio1. Actually I'm pretty sure they only used F230 in the finals, but Yuko used it a lot during the real tournament, and it got him to place.
I don't think so, hence the "You stole my combo" therefore SS1 had no way of knowing it before the tournament started.
Jul. 24, 2014  5:40 PM
 
Uwik: Oh, and that's another thing I forgot to mention.

Even with these statistics (which I think are extremely flawed, to the point of irrelevancy), should we make a decision on the ban based on how often the part was used? Even if these statistics proved that F230 was only used 15% of the time (which I honestly really don't think they even come close to doing), with all the variables in play, like reluctance to use the part, availability, meta development, etc., does that really prove that it isn't an overpowered part?

You seem like a guy who needs concrete, statistical evidence to make a decision, and I respect that (I'm actually that way myself), but I think you're looking for statistics that don't exist (or are at least impossible to compile at this point).

Leone19: Um, yah they do. It doesn't necessarily have to be the host. It can be (a) participant(s) in the event, but at nearly every tournament in MD/NC, the host and/or player(s) request at least once that F230 not be used (and if it isn't announced publicly, most players ask their opponents not to use it during individual matches, and if they both agree, F230 isn't used; that's how it happens most often in NC).

@Echizen:

Kei Wrote:Part availability/cost issues have no bearing on anything, I can guarantee that.
Jul. 24, 2014  5:42 PM
 
I was responding to this part of your post:


TheBlackDragon wrote:

Third, there are availability issues. As DrPepsidew said, the part is very, very expensive. 50 bucks for a piece of plastic is more than a lot of people can/are willing to pay. Only certain members have it in some areas, and as a result, although F230 does dominate, it doesn't show up in large numbers in the winning combinations because people don't own it.

I wasn't making a genera statement.
Jul. 24, 2014  5:51 PM
 
But part availability still has no bearing on the situation (and, just to clarify, in case anyone was wondering, I didn't contradict myself; part availability has no bearing on whether the part should or should not be banned, but I was referring to the reliability of the statistic Uwik has compiled).
Jul. 24, 2014  6:01 PM
 
@Echizen: He's using the low availability of good F230s to justify the low percentage, not as an argument for why it should not be banned. By that logic PD should not be top tier because few people have it.

EDIT: beaten by TBD
Jul. 24, 2014  9:21 PM
 
Cool beans, it was peaceful in my absence. Arguing who used the combo first solves nothing, stay on topic dudes.

@All: I agree with most of you on whatever points you have made, however, we need to test these combos on against the ones in post #421 (top of the page).

I can't at the moment, I do not have access to a 0G stadium.

Also, while in a debate, never make assumptions then use them in a negotiation. Logic guys, it works.
Jul. 24, 2014  10:40 PM
 
Finally done those tests you guys requested, it took 4 hours:

Parts used:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Duo Cancer SA165TB vs. Genbull Genbull F230GCF
Duo Cancer SA165TB: 12 wins
Genbull Genbull F230GCF: 18 wins
F230GCF win percentage: 60%

Genbull Genbull got in a few Sway KO's, but OS'ed Duo plenty of times as well.

Duo Cancer SA165BWD vs. Genbull Genbull F230GCF
Duo Cancer wins: 13 wins
Genbull Genbull: 7 wins
F230GCF win percentage: 35%

Duo stood it's ground here.

Killerken Dragooon SA165BWD vs. Genbull Dragooon F230GCF
Killerken Dragoon wins: 16 wins
Genbull Dragoon wins: 4 wins
F230GCF wins: 20%

Killerken Dragooon outspun F230 like a million times hah. I launched F230 properly, so please don't say these tests don't make sense. F230's wins were 2 OS's and 2 Sway KO's.

Killerken Dragooon SA165TB vs. Genbull Dragooon F230GCF
Killerken Dragooon wins: 11 wins
Genbull Dragooon wins: 9 wins
F230 win percentage: 45%


This is where I wanted to really stop testing because I didn't want to put my F230 in more battles. Sorry I couldn't do any attack tests.
Jul. 24, 2014  10:47 PM
 
Now, a NC blader should test. *COUGH* TBD *COUGH*

I just need to see the contrast
Jul. 25, 2014  2:07 AM
 
It's kind of interesting to me that you got a higher win rate against TB than you did with BWD. I'm not dissing your results or saying they're wrong or nothing, it's just that for me BWD got sway KOd really easily, compared to TB. After checking the past few pages it appears that Angry Face, TBD, and Kei also had an easier time against BWD. Since we can't see your actual battle unless you post a video, can you please explain what might have gone down to make your results different?

Again, I'm not trying to doubt you, I'm just curious.
Jul. 25, 2014  2:53 AM
 
(Jul. 25, 2014  2:07 AM)Wombat Wrote: It's kind of interesting to me that you got a higher win rate against TB than you did with BWD. I'm not dissing your results or saying they're wrong or nothing, it's just that for me BWD got sway KOd really easily, compared to TB. After checking the past few pages it appears that Angry Face, TBD, and Kei also had an easier time against BWD. Since we can't see your actual battle unless you post a video, can you please explain what might have gone down to make your results different?

Again, I'm not trying to doubt you, I'm just curious.

Haha it's fine, questions are definitely welcome Smile

I actually didn't specify how specific Beys were able to win, as in KO's or OS's. Against TB it wasn't as easy to KO as BWD was. In all of the tests, most of F230's TB or BWD wins were OS's not KO's. Also, a lot of the times BWD went up against F230, BWD was able to break F230's bank, and force it into the middle quite easily and then ended up beating F230. I can see why that may have been confusing. Sorry about that.

Also, just to let everyone know, when testing I was completely unbiased, so there were no instances where I wanted a specific Bey to win, it was all fair. Just clarifying Smile
Jul. 25, 2014  4:58 AM
 
Woah LMAO, those are some wacky results! TB is much more difficult for me to win against than BWD for the most part.

That is so weird...

Alright guys. There's only one explanation for this. Toronto must be cursed. The curse of BWD.

Spoiler (Click to View)
Jul. 25, 2014  2:35 PM
 
I did testing (informal- about 5 rounds per battle- I didn't want to use my F230 too much) myself with Genbull Dragoon F230 CF against Genbull Dragoon SA165 BWD and launching with multiple ways (bank, straight, etc.) BWD still won the majority of each battle for me- my results were very similar to LMAO's. I didn't have time to test with TB, though.
Jul. 25, 2014  4:37 PM
 
Tournaments are where you go to prove yourself.When people like TBD Bans things,they're limiting a bladers power.Banning things is just a way to limit power!

You guys should leave F230 alone,and any other part that has been banned!

I will NEVER go to a WBO tournament until things change!
Jul. 25, 2014  4:56 PM
 
(Jul. 25, 2014  4:37 PM)King E.Emperor Wrote: Tournaments are where you go to prove yourself.When people like TBD Bans things,they're limiting a bladers power.Banning things is just a way to limit power!

You guys should leave F230 alone,and any other part that has been banned!

I will NEVER go to a WBO tournament until things change!

Well if something is banned that is way too good to be heathy for the game wouldent that help everyone have a more fair chance to show off their skills. And when you say other banned part I think you're referring to the limited format ban list witch is the entire point of the limited format

But anyway I'm starting to stray off topic. But me and sniper maybe able to do some testing so we can have more tournament like test
Jul. 25, 2014  4:59 PM
 
(Jul. 25, 2014  4:37 PM)King E.Emperor Wrote: Tournaments are where you go to prove yourself.When people like TBD Bans things,they're limiting a bladers power.Banning things is just a way to limit power!

You guys should leave F230 alone,and any other part that has been banned!

I will NEVER go to a WBO tournament until things change!
Nothing has been decided about banning F230 yet so you can still use it. Also TheBlackDragon can't ban parts himself so he didn't "ban things", he is just on the side for banning it.

Back on topic I'm glad to see some more tests up. Sadly I don't have an Orange F230 myself so I can't really do tests although the TB and BWD tests really surprised me. Seeing NC is doing a Zero G event soon, maybe I can get another member to test with me in a two person match up. Thanks for testing LMAO!
Jul. 25, 2014  5:10 PM
 
(Jul. 25, 2014  4:37 PM)King E.Emperor Wrote: Tournaments are where you go to prove yourself.When people like TBD Bans things,they're limiting a bladers power.Banning things is just a way to limit power!

Dude, F230 is quite dominant of the Zero-G meta, with not many counters. It's not the Bladers power, it's how dominance of F230. For instance, TheBlackDragon; If F230 were to receive a ban, that wouldn't change how knowledgeable he is in the metagame, or his so called power. Take this scenario into consideration, as well; You're a knowledgeable, competitive Beyblade player who constantly reads up on this forum. You, the knowledgeable member you are plays in a WBO official match, using your MF-H Duo Aquario B;D against a far less knowledgeable six year old who is using a MSF-L Genbull Dragoon F230CF that was lended out by another member who owns the parts. The odds are that F230 will take that match, and would the next battles where it is not facing one of the very few counters out there. Using that one piece set up on either GCF or CF can make the least competitive, knowledgeable of users have a semi-decent rank.

On another note, thanks for those valuable testings, LMAO! Smile
Aug. 12, 2014  2:28 PM
 
I have an idea to solve the mystery of f230 once and for all. I have a tournament this weekend, amd myself and TheBlackDragon will be there. Ill live stream a match between us and ifkei or Kai V can be on live so we can search each aspect to see what is the differences between NC and Toronto. This way we can have live input from everyone. Anyone up for this?
Aug. 12, 2014  2:39 PM
 
(Aug. 12, 2014  2:28 PM)Dark_Mousy Wrote: I have an idea to solve the mystery of f230 once and for all. I have a tournament this weekend, amd myself and TheBlackDragon will be there. Ill live stream a match between us and ifkei or Kai V can be on live so we can search each aspect to see what is the differences between NC and Toronto. This way we can have live input from everyone. Anyone up for this?

I host a tournament here at the same time, so I think I will be rather busy, unfortunately.
Aug. 12, 2014  5:53 PM
 
(Aug. 12, 2014  2:39 PM)Kai-V Wrote:
(Aug. 12, 2014  2:28 PM)Dark_Mousy Wrote: I have an idea to solve the mystery of f230 once and for all. I have a tournament this weekend, amd myself and TheBlackDragon will be there. Ill live stream a match between us and ifkei or Kai V can be on live so we can search each aspect to see what is the differences between NC and Toronto. This way we can have live input from everyone. Anyone up for this?

I host a tournament here at the same time, so I think I will be rather busy, unfortunately.
Why not just take Videos on both NC and Toronto tournaments and compare them to each other? However that would make it a very F230 filled month lol.
Aug. 12, 2014  11:34 PM
 
Be sure to get the launches in the shot
Aug. 13, 2014  12:12 AM
 
Dark, I don't think I'm gonna be there.
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