Okay, so in a stalling clause, the opponent will choose a reliable bey. I'd consider MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230/BD145/TH170CS, MF LLD BD145LRF, Maybe MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145CS, and heck, even MF Hell Kerbecs BD145CS reliable. All of them do pretty well against Hell Kerbecs BD145WD.
The gravity combo got less than 50% in left spin and defense mode, according to Dans testing. I'm guessing it'll do better in right spin, but even discounting that, IMO this combo is pretty poor.

Still, I guess if it's been working, then yeah.

Sure, a lot of things lose to random combo's, but I generally find Hell Kerbecs BD145WD to be more vulnerable to this than other supposedly "safe" choices, even stamina combo's it does beat can defeat it with a stronger launch.

@LordWolfblade: Basalt AD145WD does worse against Earth and Burn than Hell BD145WD, but 1v1 it's usually slightly better.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I had MF-H on both combos and I still proved S sucked. SD improved the combo

IIRC it with S still got 60% win, which is still good. but yes, SD is better

60% is incredibly inconsistent.

Even so, I want to point out that this thread is incredibly demanding. I really don't want the idea of Hell Kerbecs BD145WD being "garbage" shoved down my throat.

Bluezee, do you really feel the need to try to tell us what is good and what is not? Why can't you let us come to that conclusion on our own? We have the ability to test and through that, we can find what works for us. Some combos don't suit a person's style and some do.

For example, Cye hates Basalt on 230, Kei is good with CS, I still suck at everything, Zackorang1 likes uncustomized Hell Kerbecs, Paulo and IKMV like G Perseus, and Gabe like Hell on 230.

The customizations forum should be used for the purpose of sharing ideas, not demanding change and the use of certain combos. Trying to convince us to do something in terms of game play is unnecessary because as we grow as bladers, we should be able to build combos from our own knowledge and experience, not yours.

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Okay, so in a stalling clause, the opponent will choose a reliable bey. I'd consider MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230/BD145/TH170CS, MF LLD BD145LRF, Maybe MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145CS, and heck, even MF Hell Kerbecs BD145CS reliable. All of them do pretty well against Hell Kerbecs BD145WD.
The gravity combo got less than 50% in left spin and defense mode, according to Dans testing. I'm guessing it'll do better in right spin, but even discounting that, IMO this combo is pretty poor.

Still, I guess if it's been working, then yeah.

Sure, a lot of things lose to random combo's, but I generally find Hell Kerbecs BD145WD to be more vulnerable to this than other supposedly "safe" choices, even stamina combo's it does beat can defeat it with a stronger launch.

@LordWolfblade: Basalt AD145WD does worse against Earth and Burn than Hell BD145WD, but 1v1 it's usually slightly better.

Not to downplay you by any means, but I have been to 16 tournaments in this year alone and you have only had one. I have seen this combo as extremely successful in many different metagames. Even Bluezee used it in a few tournaments.

hey bluezee just me

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Its not that Hell Kerbecs is garbage,the name of the thread tells it all,Hell Kerbec's Kryptonite.S was originally made for stamina and pretty much stamina only.

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Its not that Hell Kerbecs is garbage,the name of the thread tells it all,Hell Kerbec's Kryptonite.S was originally made for stamina and pretty much stamina only.

KCPJ, read the thread. It's stated multiple times that Bluezee meant to use S as an example about how Hell Kerbecs BD145WD allegedly sucks, not that S is the ultimate part.

Deikailo: The tourney experience thing is a fair point. As I said, if it's been working, by all means, don't stop using it.
It's just if you pulled it out against me, I'd not be too concerned (no disrespect to you here, it's just that pretty much every bey I use beats it consistently). That said, in early rounds against newbies, I can see it would be a decent choice, it's just that in my use and the use of it I saw at the tourney yesterday, it wasn't reliable. Maybe that's skewed, maybe it's just one of those combo's that doesn't work for me, but yeah, that's what I've seen.

And, I still think what I posted about it's performance against other "safe" combos is valid. It doesn't do well against a lot of things I'd expect to face.
Still, IMO technique and launch strength are generally a little more important than the right combo, so I guess I can understand it doing better against a few of those in a tourney situation.

More emphasis needs to be put on the fact some combo's work better or worse for some people, and that people need to experiment for themselves if they want to find out what'll work.

I know you've known him longer than me, but give Bluezee some leeway, the whole "pure stamina" thing isn't serious.
While I personally wouldn't have been so harsh on Hell Kerbecs, and maybe been clearer on the point that I'm not saying S is amazing (though if I'dposted it, I doubt anyone would have taken it seriously), I really think the main reason people are saying that is because they've read far too much into the OP, and taken far too much of it as dead serious.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

As I've been saying and people are finally managing to understand, the point is Hell Kerbecs BD145WD isn't a reliable choice, not that S is amazing. The internet isn't good for communicating sarcasm, and I suspect there was quite a bit of it when Bluezee was talking about "the amazing S" and "pure stamina".

After my tournament, I have seen this numerous times, it does lose to random things, and SDamonCronous managed to beat the significant number of people that tried to beat his Earth ___ T125WD with it, too. It IS overrated, and that's the point. Again, it does poorly against basalt defence combo's, which are supposedly quite common. I guess it's the ease of obtaining it, as it's literally a single bey plus the most common bottom, and voila! Top tier stamina!

I've long said CS is a far better option. I'm not going as far as to say the WD version doesn't belong on the tier list, it does for the same reason RS is on there. However, the CS version needs to be added, and it should be widely understood that it's usually a better choice. That said, I want to see how it goes against these combo's.

I swear I think you and Dan are the only people that understand the stuff I post. Thanks for the help. I didn't feel like being bothered with responding to each individual post.

How could you ever tell someone to get off their high horse and still manage to post something like this?

Also, I agree. I like CS better! In tournaments, the WD variant often gets knocked out, especially against Basalt combos.

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As I've been saying and people are finally managing to understand, the point is Hell Kerbecs BD145WD isn't a reliable choice, not that S is amazing. The internet isn't good for communicating sarcasm, and I suspect there was quite a bit of it when Bluezee was talking about "the amazing S" and "pure stamina".

After my tournament, I have seen this numerous times, it does lose to random things, and SDamonCronous managed to beat the significant number of people that tried to beat his Earth ___ T125WD with it, too. It IS overrated, and that's the point. Again, it does poorly against basalt defence combo's, which are supposedly quite common. I guess it's the ease of obtaining it, as it's literally a single bey plus the most common bottom, and voila! Top tier stamina!

I've long said CS is a far better option. I'm not going as far as to say the WD version doesn't belong on the tier list, it does for the same reason RS is on there. However, the CS version needs to be added, and it should be widely understood that it's usually a better choice. That said, I want to see how it goes against these combo's.

That was part of the problem, yes; Bluezee emphasized how "amazing" S was, when the real point of the thread was supposed to be how Hell Kerbecs BD145WD is supposedly not a reliable choice.

It can be risky to use because of its recoil, but it still can generally do quite well against a lot of different Beyblades. That's why it's so great, and that's why it has been used so widely around the world.

Kei: Honestly, Hell Kerbecs BD145WD isn't really what I'd call versatile. CS, yes, WD, no. It loses to most other really-top-tier beys (Basalt BD145/230CS, most Basalt Combo's in general, Anything with a rubber attack bottom or better grip and movement, Earth Stamina if your opponent has a better launch, and a bunch of weird stuff, in this case, S). Not something I'd rely on, and while it's simple to launch, you can mess up by not launching steadily, so even that's arguable.

CS is much better, I agree!:

Nevertheless, Basalt + S still did surprisingly well, so I decided to test Hell Kerbecs BD145 with CS instead of WD because a) I figured the extra height would help it out and b) Hell Kerbecs BD145CS is superior to Hell Kerbecs BD145WD anyways.

MF-H Basalt Aquario DF145S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145CS (Boost Mode)
MF-H Basalt Aquario DF145S: 1 win (1 OS)
MF Hell Kerbecs BD145CS: 9 wins (2 KO, 7 OS)
Hell Kerbecs win percentage: 90%

Not sure why this thread was made to point out how much of a "garbage" combo Hell Kerbecs BD145WD is, when everybody knows that CS is the superior alternative. And that's besides the point; all of the things you're talking about are variables. Launch technique plays a huge part in the success of an Attack type, so you'll never be guaranteed a win against Hell Kerbecs BD145WD with one (especially with Hell's recoil, which can work in its favour). Another variable: Earth Stamina might be better if your opponent has a "better launch". If. Another variable: against 230CS, I've seen it win matches because of it's recoil. No one ever implied it was invincible, but it has a decent chance to win against a lot of customs.

i want to point out (for the third time), most of the people who got bad results (heart and chups for example did not have a MF-H on the combo with S, most of those who got good results had a MF-H on the S

But I did use MF-H on the S customs? Check out my results on page two.

Even so, I want to point out that this thread is incredibly demanding. I really don't want the idea of Hell Kerbecs BD145WD being "garbage" shoved down my throat.

Bluezee, do you really feel the need to try to tell us what is good and what is not? Why can't you let us come to that conclusion on our own? We have the ability to test and through that, we can find what works for us. Some combos don't suit a person's style and some do.


The customizations forum should be used for the purpose of sharing ideas, not demanding change and the use of certain combos. Trying to convince us to do something in terms of game play is unnecessary because as we grow as bladers, we should be able to build combos from our own knowledge and experience, not yours.

Bolding this because it is so, so true.

It's fine to present an idea, but you really should think twice about saying a proven combo– a combo that has won countless matches around the world–is "garbage". It's fine if you don't agree with its use, or don't like it personally, but you can't just tell everyone "you're wrong". Do you think people will be willing to accept your ideas when they are confronted like that?

Instead of making bold statements like:

So now will you please get rid of that combo now? I really don't know why it is even top-tier for stamina. Real stamina types use S.

Why not say "I've done some testing and I think we might have to reconsider our position on Hell Kerbecs BD145WD. What do you guys think?"?

I don't agree with your results, but I am very interested to understand why there is such a great disparity between them and mine. From my perspective, Hell Kerbecs BD145WD is still a great custom, and S does still suck because it is not viable in competitive play, but I'm not rejecting them outright.

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Bluezee is blunt, we know that. Perhaps because of past experiences, he feels like that is the only way to get through to people anymore? I'm not calling out threads.

Anyway; CS4lyfe!

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Kei: I honestly don't think the CS version IS widely known to be better, at least amongst newer people, as last I checked it STILL wasn't top tier.

As Dan said, Bluezee is blunt, we all know it, and we've been over why he's blunt a million times now. I think it's time we got used to it, I mean, I manage to get the right idea from what he posts, so it's not impossible.

@Cye: He can post it because he honestly feels that way, and I can understand why. Most people jumped to the conclusion he was saying "S IS AMAZING", and took everything as dead-serious. If you don't read arrogance into everything he posts, it generally makes a lot more sense.

Also, as I've said before, CS4lyfe here too

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Bluezee is blunt, we know that. Perhaps because of past experiences, he feels like that is the only way to get through to people anymore? I'm not calling out threads.

Anyway; CS4lyfe!

We would have so much more respect for him if he would stop being so defiant and more considerate of our opinions and results. After all, that rule is stated right above the customizations forum. He's not a bad blader and we all know it, however, in this forum he treats fellow users like we are not worthy and we will always be wrong.

He should really save the competition for the stadium, not the forums.

@Cye: He can post it because he honestly feels that way, and I can understand why. Most people jumped to the conclusion he was saying "S IS AMAZING", and took everything as dead-serious. If you don't read arrogance into everything he posts, it generally makes a lot more sense.

BECAUSE HE DID SAY THAT.

CS4untilitgetsoutclassed

i want to point out (for the third time), most of the people who got bad results (heart and chups for example did not have a MF-H on the combo with S, most of those who got good results had a MF-H on the S

But I did use MF-H on the S customs? Check out my results on page two.

note how i say most of the people, not all

about hell BD145WD not being reliable: VS a experienced person it will lose. but VS someone using lightning ldrago BD145LRF who is not good with attack or against a earth bull 100WD it has a good chance to win the battle (and right now, there are lots of inexperienced members that can not get their hands on good enough parts to win vs it)

it only needs two beys to be made as well

but with CS it will do much better

i am now jumping out of this argument

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Right so I tend to use D/CS (sometimes even DS) over WD for various reasons. These "DF145S" based combos are relatively niche if you ask me. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD defeated the whole variety of previous metagame combos.

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As long as someone can pull off a decent shot with MF LLD BD145LRF, they will destroy this, it's so weak to anything with movement and grip it's not funny

And do be aware what I said about earth. It comes down to Launch Strength there, I got to watch Earth beat Hell 3-0 quite a few times at my tourney.

The CS version only needs two beys, but WD comes with Basalt, and a bunch of top tier stuff. But yeah, that's it's main source of popularity.

ControL_: Yeah, the use of S isn't really the point, there's sarcasm intended, it's just an example Bluezee used to demonstrate how unreliable Hell Kerbecs BD145WD is.
And as I've said, it does defeat them in testing, but at tourneys, there are more factors in stamina battles at least

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

In the argument of CS vs. WD, I would like to point out that at this point in time, WD is more easily accessible than CS, which works for the majority of the community. CS wears too much where as WD doesn't in comparison.

TBH, I'd use DS over WD, but that is just me.

We would have so much more respect for him if he would stop being so defiant and more considerate of our opinions and results. After all, that rule is stated right above the customizations forum. He's not a bad blader and we all know it, however, in this forum he treats fellow users like we are not worthy and we will always be wrong.

He should really save the competition for the stadium, not the forums.

CS4untilitgetsoutclassed

Forum-changing event which made Bluezee's outlook on how to deal with people dramatically alter.

I didn't work my carp off to get CS accepted to get outclasses; neva. I'm a neva let it get outclassed. It is in a league of its own. forevah. lol.

CS4untilitgetsoutclassed

Ahahaha, that made me laugh IRL.

Laugh again. do it.
lol.

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The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

@Cye: He can post it because he honestly feels that way, and I can understand why. Most people jumped to the conclusion he was saying "S IS AMAZING", and took everything as dead-serious. If you don't read arrogance into everything he posts, it generally makes a lot more sense.

BECAUSE HE DID SAY THAT.

CS4untilitgetsoutclassed

I should have said "meant" not "said". My bad. People interpreted it as meaning "S is Amazing".
Still if we're getting picky, he never said those exact words, ahaha

Ahahaha, that made me laugh IRL.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

We would have so much more respect for him if he would stop being so defiant and more considerate of our opinions and results. After all, that rule is stated right above the customizations forum. He's not a bad blader and we all know it, however, in this forum he treats fellow users like we are not worthy and we will always be wrong.

He should really save the competition for the stadium, not the forums.

CS4untilitgetsoutclassed

Forum-changing event which made Bluezee's outlook on how to deal with people dramatically alter.

I didn't work my carp off to get CS accepted to get outclasses; neva. I'm a neva let it get outclassed. It is in a league of its own. forevah. lol.

CS4untilitgetsoutclassed

Ahahaha, that made me laugh IRL.

Laugh again. do it.
lol.

Okay, so I got nailed with a 50% warning for this, but I still came back, hosted so many successful tournaments, and not once slammed it in everyone's face that I could be a good host and that they should suck it.

Well, okay, maybe once I tried to shove it in everyone's face, but I try to be as humble as I can about being the ultimate tournament queen.

Okay so you're trying to say even though you dealt with animosity of your own doing (I didn't read the entire thread, just title told me enough.) you came back not a complete jerk. That is indeed awesome, but Bluezee wasn't originally being ridiculed by other members because he did something bad, but because he gave them something out of the ordinary and they began to pile up on him for no reason.. :V Again; I didn't read the thread, I am making a guess that you cancelled the tournament because of rain (? lol) and people were pissed.

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That said, Bluezee has always been very outspoken, he just became much more blunt since that particular thread.

EDIT: Looks like we've got another "Let's all talk about Bluezee" thread

Back to the combo, can we please put the CS version on the top tier list? There's LOADS of testing on it, and if this WD version is, it should be too.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Okay so you're trying to say even though you dealt with animosity of your own doing (I didn't read the entire thread, just title told me enough.) you came back not a complete jerk. That is indeed awesome, but Bluezee wasn't originally being ridiculed by other members because he did something bad, but because he gave them something out of the ordinary and they began to pile up on him for no reason.. :V Again; I didn't read the thread, I am making a guess that you cancelled the tournament because of rain (? lol) and people were pissed.

I canceled the tournament because I lived in a flood zone and would have had to walk a mile with all of my Beyblades the day before the tournament when it was down pouring to get to the train to get NYC. No, wasn't going to happen. Many New Yorkers, including Bluezee, jumped in and said they didn't blame me.

Same thing here. Bluezee got ridiculed for trying to do something and became bitter over it. Don't fight fire with fire. If he really believes he can make a difference, he shouldn't have to fight us over it. He should stay true to a lighter heart and not be so aggressive about it.

So I decided instead of quoting things, I will be completely blunt and straight forward about this. I do not care who does and does not respect me. The fact of the matter is, nothing I say will be accepted because people tend to be very dense and don't know how to break out of old habits like using things that don't even work well in the first place. This place is stuck in the past and rarely attempts to make any notable change. Remember back in the plastic era when I said that Dranzer S blade base had ridiculous Life After Death and it murders zombies and anything else that did not knock it out? I was called a liar and shut down completely and it wasnt until Brad got off his high horse and tried it that he found out I was not only right and he apologized. Also, remember how people thought 230 was invincible to tracks such as 85? So much controversy was placed behind that that it was ridiculous and people called my results skewed. I had to fight my way around that as well and even after I posted video and others did too, it was still said that my results were skewed. Remember that ridiculous ML-WTF thread Kei made? Many people took that thread as a 'go-ahead' to bash Bluezee, whether Deikailo or Kei and the other committee member who pushed for it wanted that or not. Blamed for "cults"? Get out...worship parties and names were being thrown around like wildfire before Dan and I ever even posted LLDBD145LRF OR MLDCH120XF yet when WE DO IT , its an issue..I could even go as far as to talk about LLDBD145LRF. Controversy out the carp yet it was shown to be one if the best if not easily the best attacker out. Dan was really the only one that stood by it from beginning until now. The list can go on and on from past to present but I believe you get the point. Controversy follows me...because people dont know how to accept once they are wrong..and its rather ridiculous. I am not arrogant or disrespectful. I am honest and blunt. Tried being nice and now I'm bitter. There are A LOT more people on this forum worse than me.

I think that needed to be said. While I don't disagree with Deikailo that being less blunt and being extra-careful to never exaggerate anything as a joke would help people accept what you say more, I understand why you're blunt.

People consistently disagree with you and just refuse to break their beliefs and accept that it's not IMPOSSIBLE for 85 to beat 230, for example. While personally I do better with 230, you showed with a god damn video that 85 can beat it, and people (well, mostly one person at the start) refused to accept that it was possible, despite bloody VIDEO EVIDENCE.

Nonetheless, I think this thread has made it's point: Hell Kerbecs BD145WD IS still too popular, and IMO the CS version should at least be added to the top tier list to combat this.

EDIT: Thanks ControL_, maybe I didn't see the videos originally, it's been a while

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I think that needed to be said. While I don't disagree with Deikailo that being less blunt and being extra-careful to never exaggerate anything as a joke would help people accept what you say more, I understand why you're blunt.

People consistently disagree with you and just refuse to break their beliefs and accept that it's not IMPOSSIBLE for 85 to beat 230, for example. While personally I do better with 230, you showed with a god damn video that 85 can beat it, and people (well, mostly one person at the start) refused to accept that it was possible. Heck, I still don't know why you get that, but I know that you do.

Nonetheless, I think this thread has made it's point: Hell Kerbecs BD145WD IS still too popular, and IMO the CS version should at least be added to the top tier list to combat this.

OK... You are looking at the video - The video itself doesn't say 85 beats 230, anyone can do that, in fact it's hard for 230 to win in those scenarios. The 230 combo used was literally the worst it will go with.

That said, after a short run, everyone tends to turn bitter inside - It's never nice. The controversy follows those who makes the loudest noises, a great combo made a loud noise and eyes were on you Bluezee. I was the first to video test the final counter, as others were being swamped in similarly - I think that any further boasting would have gotten Kei into a similar mess. The reflection on the community has worked - I can refer to the situation now thanks to it and LLdragoBD145LRF threads.

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@Cye: He can post it because he honestly feels that way

What the hell kind of argumnt is, "He can say that because that's how he feels?"
It doesn't work that way. Unless you're defending everyone else too. Then your point would totally be valid.
He's on the highest horse of all and then has the audacity to accuse others of being on a high horse.

You say that everyone is stuck in the past, but you're bringing up something all the way from the plastic gen, even though Brad even posted an apology about it...

And what's the point of posting a thread like this where you know the combo isn't that good? And then we have other people who agree that it was good just because you're Bluezee, get proven wrong, and then decide that you meant something different initially. Really?

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