And attack isn’t useful in Standard?

I’ll agree that judgement and Zwei certainly were powerful options back in the day and attack was a safe option compared to now in standard, but attack isn’t useless in standard. Rage still can be used effectively in standard, and on the right combo, so can Savior.

It’s really just on the side, barely hanging on like Phoenix in pre-Rage Sparking.

The standard metagame is ruled by spamina combos. It’s just a fact.

While stamina has become more prevalent, it doesn’t count out attack. As someone who’s continue to test with attack types, I can say with confidence attack isn’t just barely hanging on. That would imply that it’s as useful as it is in Classic and limited, which is simply not the case.

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Hey there! My name is BuilderROB and I am an organizer who hosts tournaments in North Carolina.

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aw shoot, here we go again

think this would be a good idea!

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"If you fail to prepare, your prepared to fail." - Mark Spitz

Yeah but the thing is, attack is actually useful here.

I do like this format though, I have a lot of GT stuff and I’d love to test more out.

I do recommend perhaps putting Master (left spin) on a ban watchlist.

And attack isn’t useful in Standard?

I’ll agree that judgement and Zwei certainly were powerful options back in the day and attack was a safe option compared to now in standard, but attack isn’t useless in standard. Rage still can be used effectively in standard, and on the right combo, so can Savior.

I am a bit confused.  How do we go from someone saying “attack is actually useful here” to a response “attack isn’t useless in standard.”   Was standard even mentioned in Cheeto’s post?

It’s really just on the side, barely hanging on like Phoenix in pre-Rage Sparking.

The standard metagame is ruled by spamina combos. It’s just a fact.

While stamina has become more prevalent, it doesn’t count out attack. As someone who’s continue to test with attack types, I can say with confidence attack isn’t just barely hanging on. That would imply that it’s as useful as it is in Classic and limited, which is simply not the case.

I am glad to hear attack is doing well in standard.  I would prefer that a debate on the viability of  attack in standard, not occur in a thread asking if people would be interested in a format that is not standard. That can be a worthwhile debate in its own thread.

These opinion polls can easily get derailed.  I would like to keep this one on track if possible.  This is not a thread created to gauge interest for a cho Z centric format or the viability of attack in standard. I would prefer less shifting of focus.

What's the point of this, return it to the GT meta, but now with later drivers like Drift and Zone'+Z? You're trading one form of stagnation for another, and with more complicated rules for bladers to misunderstand.

I mean, it's not like we're just gonna leave 'em there then when their match starts we be like oh, that Bey's banned. Nah, we're the WBO so, we're going to help 'em And maybe someone could go over the rules or something before the tournament starts a bring spare Beys just in case otherwise I could see this format working

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As a reminder of what the meta was like during GT:
Judgement and to a lesser extent Zwei were Extremely powerful.
Master on left was very good.
Lord Spriggan was absurdly good.
Perfect Phoenix was Still Viable (and with newer drivers would probably be even more of a concern).
Imperial was quite good later on.
Heaven is apparently decent.
Much of the more effective ChoZ layers were still usable.

Other layers would be occasionally used.
GT, as a whole, I consider a disappointment. They rattled, they were unbalanced; the addition of metal through the layer weights was vastly inferior to metal additions via chassis or armor, which are heavier and don't rattle. GT felt like a misfire. Exceptions being chips like Diabolos1 which Could Not rattle.
It was the era I actually did best at; lots of second and third place finishes, and my only first place finish.

Each new format should have a purpose and bring something new to the table.
Burst Classic took very old layers (that function way differently than the larger and heavier layers in every season past dual) and added the use of modern tips, while restricting discs.
Burst Limited tried to balance layers to series 3-5 while removing weight creep and banning some of the seriously overpowered layers.
CheetoBlader's Hypersphere format encouraged us to try something new, with stadiums and tips that many people scoff at.
What does this format do? It's got no banlist other than post-GT, and it permits everything prior to Superking. So it just turns back the clock and repeats a tournament meta that we saw in 2019-2020, now with a few more MFB/Plastic remake layers, and more opposite spin viable tips.

1. ALL GT parts would be allowed. 
2. It would add variety to the formats, which is something weird to have a problem with.
3. Shindog, maybe it would turn out better as just GT, or GT and Cho-Z. Just a thought.

All Parts BEFORE GT Including GT would be allowed

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The One Piece is the friends we made a long the way.

As a reminder of what the meta was like during GT:
Judgement and to a lesser extent Zwei were Extremely powerful.
Master on left was very good.
Lord Spriggan was absurdly good.
Perfect Phoenix was Still Viable (and with newer drivers would probably be even more of a concern).
Imperial was quite good later on.
Heaven is apparently decent.
Much of the more effective ChoZ layers were still usable.

Other layers would be occasionally used.
GT, as a whole, I consider a disappointment. They rattled, they were unbalanced; the addition of metal through the layer weights was vastly inferior to metal additions via chassis or armor, which are heavier and don't rattle. GT felt like a misfire. Exceptions being chips like Diabolos1 which Could Not rattle.
It was the era I actually did best at; lots of second and third place finishes, and my only first place finish.

Each new format should have a purpose and bring something new to the table.
Burst Classic took very old layers (that function way differently than the larger and heavier layers in every season past dual) and added the use of modern tips, while restricting discs.
Burst Limited tried to balance layers to series 3-5 while removing weight creep and banning some of the seriously overpowered layers.
CheetoBlader's Hypersphere format encouraged us to try something new, with stadiums and tips that many people scoff at.
What does this format do? It's got no banlist other than post-GT, and it permits everything prior to Superking. So it just turns back the clock and repeats a tournament meta that we saw in 2019-2020, now with a few more MFB/Plastic remake layers, and more opposite spin viable tips.

Each new format should have a purpose and bring something new to the table.
Burst GT takes very old* layers that from ~2 seasons ago and before (that function way differently than the layers now with tall mode and low mode) and added the use of modern tips, while restricting discs.  

*Burst classic was introduced to the WBO Jan 2019.  That is about 2 years after season one ended 1st quarter of 2017
Burst GT can be introduced to the WBO Jan 2022 or later. That will be about 2 years after GT season ended 1st quarter of 2020.  It will take some time to develop a format.  

huh maybe something like Heaven Spriggan 00Expand Zone'+Z would be poggers

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"If you fail to prepare, your prepared to fail." - Mark Spitz

I made the comment on Discord when this discussion first started there that Judgement + Zwei, pre-Lord was one of the better "stock" Burst metas (or maybe I said it was "almost good", but something to that effect considering how bad stock God and stock Cho-Z were), in the context of it being similar to what I wanted to achieve in Burst Limited. Overbearing attackers that made weak launch + opposite spin not a surefire counter, same spin Stamina Driver matchups, and even some late-stage meta types like KO Defense and Anti-Attack making some appearances. I'll expand on the pre-Lord part a bit later.

I guess if Burst Beyblade, man, does continue indefinitely, and the WBO still exists, there will be an infinite number of formats, so some will always fade into obscurity. HMS is a fun, good format but I don't think it's even been hosted outside of LA since 2018, and I don't think Plastics has been hosted outside of LA since 2016. I'm not opposed to creating a format for each new... season of Beyblade (we can even dust off that old unfinished 4D Limited), and I would be OK with Burst Zero-GT existing, and probably down to try a few tournaments once the first stage is improved. If we are going to go this route though, and even now, I think using the beginning/ending of a season as a hard cutoff points for what is and isn't legal is unwise, simply because most seasons of Beyblade are bad stock. They would be better off with overpowered or overcentralizing parts removed and beneficial parts from future releases introduced, for variety and accessibility, and to make sure people aren't playing the exact same game they were when it was the Standard Format. That's why it's better to keep the beginning/ending of a season as a general guideline for powerscaling. In a similar vein, if this format were to exist, I would not want to see the existing GT Layers removed from Limited - especially since none of the ones currently legal there would have a home here.

While I think that starting with "everything after GT banned" is probably more ok in this case since it's considerably better stock than other seasons, personally I'd like to see Master and Lord banned, or at least on the watchlist. Imperial definitely had time to make its mark before the pandemic, and I can see it being just the big boi Diablo type of this format (good, but not bannable) but Master not so much. But considering Master was getting lots of meta usage until the end of Sparking (it might be outclassed now? I think people are starting to use Vanish and Roar more, but idk if there's still some advantage Master offers that they do not), I think it'd be smart to at least keep an eye on it. My personal taste would be to remove both Lord and Master, which made it so high-LAD Xt+/Br setups were difficult to burst even in same spin matchips, unlike aH and hS, which were both basically simultaneously outclassed by Lord. This would not only bring back the whole series main gimmick (lol) but also encourage players to try out some otherwise overlooked parts like Poison, Tact, Keep', GEN, Hurricane, etc. if they wanted something more defensive. Making same spin matchups a bit more burst-y, especially when they involve an attacker of some sort, is also my philosophy for Limited, and it's what I'd hope to accomplish by giving a Zn'+Z ban a shot.

is the wall bounce rule gonna be brought back for this format to deal with judgement's overkill issues again?

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I have been thinking for this format, I think if it is a thing that Zone’ +Z could be banned as well as drift. I agree with Wombat that Master and Lord could be banned as well. This is just for a more interesting battles/strategy.

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Yes, no, maybe? ¯\_(•,•)_/¯

Three bladed beys are the best.

What's the point of this, return it to the GT meta, but now with later drivers like Drift and Zone'+Z? You're trading one form of stagnation for another, and with more complicated rules for bladers to misunderstand.

I mean, it's not like we're just gonna leave 'em there then when their match starts we be like oh, that Bey's banned. Nah, we're the WBO so, we're going to help 'em And maybe someone could go over the rules or something before the tournament starts a bring spare Beys just in case otherwise I could see this format working

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1. ALL GT parts would be allowed. 
2. It would add variety to the formats, which is something weird to have a problem with.
3. Shindog, maybe it would turn out better as just GT, or GT and Cho-Z. Just a thought.

All Parts BEFORE GT Including GT would be allowed

I know, but it’s the difference between limited.

I made the comment on Discord when this discussion first started there that Judgement + Zwei, pre-Lord was one of the better "stock" Burst metas (or maybe I said it was "almost good", but something to that effect considering how bad stock God and stock Cho-Z were), in the context of it being similar to what I wanted to achieve in Burst Limited. Overbearing attackers that made weak launch + opposite spin not a surefire counter, same spin Stamina Driver matchups, and even some late-stage meta types like KO Defense and Anti-Attack making some appearances. I'll expand on the pre-Lord part a bit later.

I guess if Burst Beyblade, man, does continue indefinitely, and the WBO still exists, there will be an infinite number of formats, so some will always fade into obscurity. HMS is a fun, good format but I don't think it's even been hosted outside of LA since 2018, and I don't think Plastics has been hosted outside of LA since 2016. I'm not opposed to creating a format for each new... season of Beyblade (we can even dust off that old unfinished 4D Limited), and I would be OK with Burst Zero-GT existing, and probably down to try a few tournaments once the first stage is improved.  If we are going to go this route though, and even now, I think using the beginning/ending of a season as a hard cutoff points for what is and isn't legal is unwise, simply because most seasons of Beyblade are bad stock. They would be better off with overpowered or overcentralizing parts removed and beneficial parts from future releases introduced, for variety and accessibility, and to make sure people aren't playing the exact same game they were when it was the Standard Format. That's why it's better to keep the beginning/ending of a season as a general guideline for powerscaling. In a similar vein, if this format were to exist, I would not want to see the existing GT Layers removed from Limited - especially since none of the ones currently legal there would have a home here.

While I think that starting with "everything after GT banned" is probably more ok in this case since it's considerably better stock than other seasons, personally I'd like to see Master and Lord banned, or at least on the watchlist. Imperial definitely had time to make its mark before the pandemic, and I can see it being just the big boi Diablo type of this format (good, but not bannable) but Master not so much. But considering Master was getting lots of meta usage until the end of Sparking (it might be outclassed now? I think people are starting to use Vanish and Roar more, but idk if there's still some advantage Master offers that they do not), I think it'd be smart to at least keep an eye on it. My personal taste would be to remove both Lord and Master, which made it so high-LAD Xt+/Br setups were difficult to burst even in same spin matchips, unlike aH and hS, which were both basically simultaneously outclassed by Lord. This would not only bring back the whole series main gimmick (lol) but also encourage players to try out some otherwise overlooked parts like Poison, Tact, Keep', GEN, Hurricane, etc. if they wanted something more defensive. Making same spin matchups a bit more burst-y, especially when they involve an attacker of some sort, is also my philosophy for Limited, and it's what I'd hope to accomplish by giving a Zn'+Z ban a shot.

is the wall bounce rule gonna be brought back for this format to deal with judgement's overkill issues again?

 

I have ordered master to do some testing and have lord so ince I get a feel for things I'll try it out, but yes, as with any format we would want to keep this open for the sake of balancing things - I like having an ethos but the simple guideline of things not over dominating is always to be kept in mind.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I think Lord, Judgement, and master should all be banned so that this format can see the use of some Cho-Z layers. Maybe pP would also need to be banned? I don’t know if it’s powerful enough to dominate or not. I think the thing we’d want to do is get rid of things that would be too OP for this format to allow for diversity. Otherwise you get a meta that’s not so fun.

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Hey there! My name is BuilderROB and I am an organizer who hosts tournaments in North Carolina.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

I think Lord, Judgement, and master should all be banned so that this format can see the use of some Cho-Z layers. Maybe pP would also need to be banned? I don’t know if it’s powerful enough to dominate or not. I think the thing we’d want to do is get rid of things that would be too OP for this format to allow for diversity. Otherwise you get a meta that’s not so fun.

It just sounds like you want a Cho-Z format. Also that would leave Zwei to run around and destroy everything.

GT Meta was pretty balanced, and if this format goes live then people can explore mora on parts. Things like Heaven, Naked, and Tact can get more time to shine.

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So master, lord, judgment, and perfect pheonix should be banned. This is true, and good because all 4 of these beys are too OP to go up against the other beys. The only possible beys that might not be as OP in these 4 is master, mainly cause it’s only used as a left defense/stamina hybrid and can be beaten by raw left stamina beys, k.o. beys like Zwei, or simply right equalizers.
To add to this, cho-z spriggan, cho-z Valkryie, and cho-z Achilles should be allowed due to them being balanced amongst the other GT beys. Another reason to put these 3 in the format would be that, lord and master are banned, so there isn’t a dual spin bey. If cho-z spriggan is in the format, dual spin is still an option.
Another thing, I don’t think any driver should be banned from this format. Xtend+ was really only super duper good on lord, master, and perfect. But with those 3 banned, Xtend+ won’t be as OP as it was during 2019 so I see no reason for it to be banned. Drift, you can beat by same spin, and besring just generally has a weak spring. And since there is no beys with burst blockers lord or judgment, sure there are the cho-z beys but you can still K.O. them, or beat them with rise, or drift. Rise shouldn’t be banned from anything. It’s got LAD comparable to bearing when awakened, but it doesn’t have much stamina. When un awakened, it’s LAD is barely better than destroy, but it has good stamina. And zone’ +z, while having almost as much LAD as drift, can be beaten by drift in opposite spin, or many drivers in same spin.
One last thing, about the whole “the WBO has to many formats” thing, I think that’s fine. See beyblade is a game that is meant to be played with eachother, and tournaments are a great way of expanding your knowledge, battling with varieties of beys while experiencing each series of beys, and most importantly blading amongst others rather than just blading by yourself in your room. There is about 9 formats currently, but not everyone is a fan of metal fight and not everyone is a fan or burst. I myself am partial to burst, so to me there’s really only 3 formats. Soon to be 4 with this. For metal fight bladers, there’s 6 and since no new metal fight beys are coming out, I don’t think any more formats will be added. Sure there are bladers who have 10 formats to worry about, but you don’t have to go in them all. And I say let people play spinning tops. If you don’t like this format, don’t battle in it. If you do, then do battle. It’s really quite simple. With that said, hopefully some organizers can run some tests with this format, and maybe it will be able to become ranked soon.

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Blader for 8+years, CA Organizer, hoping to improve at the game and meet more people along the way. Let It Rip!

I think Lord, Judgement, and master should all be banned so that this format can see the use of some Cho-Z layers. Maybe pP would also need to be banned? I don’t know if it’s powerful enough to dominate or not. I think the thing we’d want to do is get rid of things that would be too OP for this format to allow for diversity. Otherwise you get a meta that’s not so fun.

I believe it will be easier to pick out OP parts if we allow them to be played.  When a part is not banned, ppl test and play it.  If they find the part to be OP, they could simply let us know or they could show it in tournament(s).  It would be quite natural. For example, I played Gravity Perseus in one burst limited event.  After one limited event, it was pretty clear it wasn’t suitable for that format.  It was banned after one event.

Idk who makes this official, but Kei could you make this official? Or does someone else do it?

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Blader for 8+years, CA Organizer, hoping to improve at the game and meet more people along the way. Let It Rip!

Idk who makes this official, but Kei could you make this official? Or does someone else do it?

Shindog said if they were to make this real then it would release early 2022

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The One Piece is the friends we made a long the way.

It doesn't become official until they refine the idea to the point where they do actual testing, and then test it unranked for while. They're not there yet, and there are more staff in WBO than just Kei.

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Idk who makes this official, but Kei could you make this official? Or does someone else do it?

I like to remind everyone again that this thread is only asking if people find this format potentially interesting.  This is not a proposal. We are not close to having this as a format.  I only wanted to see if this is something worth considering.

I think Lord, Judgement, and master should all be banned so that this format can see the use of some Cho-Z layers. Maybe pP would also need to be banned? I don’t know if it’s powerful enough to dominate or not. I think the thing we’d want to do is get rid of things that would be too OP for this format to allow for diversity. Otherwise you get a meta that’s not so fun.

It just sounds like you want a Cho-Z format. Also that would leave Zwei to run around and destroy everything.

GT Meta was pretty balanced, and if this format goes live then people can explore mora on parts. Things like Heaven, Naked, and Tact can get more time to shine.

If Zwei turns out to be that powerful than it can be banned. The purpose of banning these parts is so they don’t become the only things that are used. GT was not a fun time to live in. All you had running around was lord Spriggan 0Cross Xtend+ and judgement combos, with little else used. When master came in, that too. Imperial was deemed risky back then due to burst resistance. I believe pP was also useful back then since it could counter master. I honestly didn’t see a whole lot of Zwei used compared to judgement.

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Hey there! My name is BuilderROB and I am an organizer who hosts tournaments in North Carolina.

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I personally think Attack is way better than Stamina. It takes some skill and is really fun to play. I think if this is tested, Lord and Master should be the first to be put on the watch list along with drift and zone’+Z. I might be completely wrong, but these things might be overpowered.

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Yes, no, maybe? ¯\_(•,•)_/¯

Three bladed beys are the best.

It just sounds like you want a Cho-Z format. Also that would leave Zwei to run around and destroy everything.

GT Meta was pretty balanced, and if this format goes live then people can explore mora on parts. Things like Heaven, Naked, and Tact can get more time to shine.

If Zwei turns out to be that powerful than it can be banned. The purpose of banning these parts is so they don’t become the only things that are used. GT was not a fun time to live in. All you had running around was lord Spriggan 0Cross Xtend+ and judgement combos, with little else used. When master came in, that too. Imperial was deemed risky back then due to burst resistance. I believe pP was also useful back then since it could counter master. I honestly didn’t see a whole lot of Zwei used compared to judgement.

Perhaps the NC/SC meta was just stale, because almost everywhere else was pretty spicy. Every meta has the typical safe combos, but Lord Xtend+ is very defeatable. Judgement can be tanked or defeated in a layer-mirror match. Imperial has new molds now that make it less risky (Random Booster 24 and Pro Series).

Master on Drift is honestly the only thing that should be closely monitored in my opinion, as it has some above average same spin, top tier opposite spin, and great defense.

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I personally think Attack is way better than Stamina. It takes some skill and is really fun to play. I think if this is tested, Lord and Master should be the first to be put on the watch list along with drift and zone’+Z. I might be completely wrong, but these things might be overpowered.

I honestly agree with this, in a Standard Stadium Rage Helios2 Extreme' 3A could easily outpower a Spin Stealing Combo. Also, this means Judgment should also be banned because if you slap Destroy' on a good Judgment combo, everything in your path shall explode like a Dynamite Bomb.

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The One Piece is the friends we made a long the way.

Okay, if I have time this week I want to test this format. This seems really fun.

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Yes, no, maybe? ¯\_(•,•)_/¯

Three bladed beys are the best.

Okay, if I have time this week I want to test this format. This seems really fun.

You planning on doing a CBT with the format?

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The One Piece is the friends we made a long the way.