Cake's first post, some combos actually need the added speed to get KO's. I'm sure something like Cosmic or Omega won't need RF/R2F/LRF, because Omega relies somewhat on Upper Smash and Cosmic relies on Force Smash, but then there's things like Pegasis who need a bit more speed.

@Ryûzaki, I'll add MSF-H Dark Knight Wyvang. I like Cosmic somewhat. It had good results against 4D beyblades... Omega has never scraped for me, plus for it to get the most adavantage against 145 height Beyblades is on 85. LLD? It is on there...?

RagerBlade, there hasn't been any testing what-so-ever. But I've been playing Scythe B and I love it, haha.

Leone19, well considering you all agree to take it off, what should it be changed to? Do you think you can do some testing for Burn 230D? That would be great, but Libra has quite a nit of undersided recoil.

Cake's second post, would a RB/RSF addition to the LTAC be a good idea?

The only formal test I had for Burn 230 D at the moment is a 95% win rate against Earth Cancer W145 WD.

I'll do have some Libra F230 tests I'll find and post.

With Omega, I personally love either 100 or DF105 on it, personally.

---

Here are the Libra tests:

Using a TT Orange, of course with a CF:

Against Scythe 230 RSF, I stalled Libra:
Libra: (16 OS, 1 KO)
Scythe: (3 OS)
Libra Win Rate: 85%

Against Scythe B, I banked Libra:
Libra: (14 OS, 3 KO)
Scythe: (3 OS)
Libra Win Rate: 85%

I'll try to do more later

---

Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Do you think you can do a benchmark with something like Meteo?

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Do you think you can do a benchmark with something like Meteo?

Vs. Meteo F230 CF:
Libra (17 OS, 2 KO)
Meteo (1 OS)
Libra Win Rate: 95%

Vs. Meteo CH120 WD
Libra (15 OS, 3 KO)
Meteo (2 OS)
Libra Win Rate: 90%

As you can see, it does incredibly well against Spin Steal, like I mentioned, comparable to Duo F230 in other formats.

EDIT: Just noticed you said benchmark, I'll do one later.

---

Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Why was balro taken away from attack? In a lot of ways it is better than wyvang in limited.

Several people agreed to have it removed until further testing was implemented.

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Cough* I MADE A COMBO WITH BALRO THAT PEOPLE IGNORED *Cough

---

Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

I'm honestly curious who these several people are, Balro definitely deserves a spot. I'm certain it will when the first official competitve combos list is released.

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still posi

Balro has recieved little testing actually. Scythe 230MB is not a good destabilizer. It suffers the same way as the Hasbro Duo. As ridiculous as this sounds, I've gotten Jade to get better results. Those overhanging protrusions do good at basically stopping the opponent dead in its tracks and also KOing. Genbull is still the main thing to look into I believe.

Balro has recieved little testing actually. Scythe 230MB is not a good destabilizer. It suffers the same way as the Hasbro Duo. As ridiculous as this sounds, I've gotten Jade to get better results. Those overhanging protrusions do good at basically stopping the opponent dead in its tracks and also KOing. Genbull is still the main thing to look into I believe.

Yes, I'm saying I dont think they should go up there without more treating or tournament use.

Well for one, you.... and DRAGON KING EX.

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Never said it didn't deserve a spot, though. I know it'll get a spot, especially since I and others have gotten results just as good as with Wyvang. Maybe not as many, but still.

EDIT: apparently I did put Balro to be taken off in my previous post. I'm gonna have to change that.

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still posi

Sorry to exorcise this topic or whatever it's called, but I do think it's about time we get a Top-Tier list draft for Limited. Taking into account most of what people have said here's an updated common rough draft that we can change later.

Limited Tier List

Attack:

Omega:

• MF-L/MF-H Omega Horuseus/Pisces 85/90/CH120 RF/R2F/LRF/MF
  

Lightning:

• MF-L/MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85/90/CH120/R145/TR145 RF/R2F/LRF
  

Screw:

• MF-H Screw Uranus/Horogium/Pisces 85 RF/R2F/LRF
  

Vulcan:

• MF-L/MF-H Vulcan Byxis 85/90/CH120 RF/R2F/LRF
  

Wyvang:

• MSF-H Samruai Wyvang (Crystal Up) H145/R145 RF/R2F/LRF
  
• MSF-H Dark Knight Wyvang (Crystal Up) 85/DF105 RF/R2F/LRF
  

Cosmic:

• MF-H Cosmic Unicorno II/Kerbecs TH170/SR200 RF/R2F/LRF
  

Pegasus:

• MF-L/MF-H Pegasus 85/90/CH120/R145/TR145 RF/R2F/LRF
  

Phoenic:

• MSF-H Thief Phoenic (Crystal Up) R145/H145/TR145 RF/R2F/LRF
  

Defence:

Earth:

• MF-H Earth Cancer/Cygnus/Hades GB145/R145/85/90 CS/RSF/RB
  

Bakushin:

• MF-H Bakushin Leone 85/90 RSF/CS/RB
  

Libra:

• MF-H Libra GB145/R145/85/90 CS/RB/RSF
  

Scythe:

• MF-H Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades GB145/R145 CS/RB/RSF
  

Genbull:

• MSF-H Samurai Genbull (Crystal Up) 85/90 CS/RSF/RB
  

Stamina:

Earth:

• (MF-L/MF-F) Earth Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/90/85 WD/EWD
  
• (MF-L/MF-F) Earth Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 230/SR200/TH170 D/SD/TB/MB
  
• (MF-L/MF-F/MF-H) Earth Cancer/Cygnus/Hades B:D
  

Burn:

• (MF-L/MF-F) Burn Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/90/85 WD/EWD
  
• (MF-L/MF-F) Burn Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 230/SR200/TH170 D/SD/TB
  

Scythe:

• (MF-L/MF-F) Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/90/85 WD/EWD
  
• (MF-L/MF-F) Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 230/SR200/TH170 D/SD/TB/MB
  
• (MF-L/MF-F) Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades B:D
  

Libra:

• (MF-L/MF-F) Libra 85/90/W145 WD/EWD
  
• (MF-L/MF-F) Libra B:D
  
• (MF-L/MF-F) Libra 230/SR200/TH170 D/SD/TB/MB
  

Meteo:

• (MF-L/MF-F) Meteo L-Drago CH120/ED145/TR145 EWD
  

Duo:

• (MF-L/MF-F)Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/90/85 WD/EWD
  
• (MF-L/MF-F)Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades TH170/SR200/230 D/SD/TB/MB
  
• (MF-L/MF-F)Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades B:D
  

Balance:

• MF-H Earth Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 230/TH170/SR200 CS
  
• MF-H Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 230/TH170/SR200 CS
  
• (MF-L/MF-F) Burn Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 90/85 MF
  
• MF-H Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades F230 CF/GCF
  
• MF-H Libra F230 CF/GCF
  
• MF-H Meteo L-Drago F230 CF/GCF
  
• MSF-H Samurai/Shinobi/Dark Knight Wyvang H145/R145 RSF/RB
  
• MF-H Libra CH120 RF/R2F/LRF
  
• MF-H Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades CH120 RF/R2F/LRF
  
• MF-L Burn Cancer/Cygnus/Hades F230 CS
  

This list looks pretty great! A few things:

Most of these attack combos should have a few more clear wheels added on, particularly Pisces on Omega imo.

Lightning attack could probably use some flat tips, too. F/MF/HF seem to be pretty decent in addition to the rubber based ones.

Is Screw really one of the best options for attack? I've tried it before and I'm just not feeling it. Looking at some testing threads, and the results are less than stellar; just my opinion, but I think we should hold on this one.

I really like Leone19's Bahamdia Dark Knight 90 MF. It needs a bit more testing, but I think this one could make the tier list in time.

AD145 should be added to the Earth Cancer/Cygnus/Hades WD/EWD combo.

Not sure if really top tier, but Burn B:D?

Edit: I second Cake's point 1.
CS should really be in balance section, if at all.

---

Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

I'm happy with that list, except for 3 things:
1) CS defense is kinda flimsy IMO and I personally think it really only belongs in Balance, if anywhere, due to its excellent mix of Defense and Stamina. More likely, just kick it entirely.
2) Is Vulcan Byxis really that much better than Horuseus? I've never seen that used before, I'll have to try it out.
3) What happened to Samurai Genbull (Crystal Up) LTDC?

---

Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

@TSO: I'll add Pisces to Omega. I actually have no experience with Omega so I just put the CW most combos seemed to use. I don't think Lightning can take the recoil of the not-rubber flat tips, but if most people disagree with me they can go up as well. Screw was one of the best Attack Wheels at its time, along with Gravity (which is banned), Vulcan, and Lightning. Dark Knight Bahamdia didn't seem too impressive to me, but I'll take another look at it. I thought W145 > AD145 was one of the few things nobody disagreed about here, but I'll add it if the difference between the two is really that marginal. From my experience Burn B:D < Earth B:D even for raw Stamina. I've actually won that (almost) mirror match in a tournament once, but I'll add it for now.

Cake: Back in the day Byxis was the CW of choice for Horuseus. There are probably others that do well but as far as I know people have yet to find them. This list so far is basically a mix of testing results, things suggested on this thread, things that pop up on the Winning Combinations thread, and common sense. I actually have never heard of Samurai Genbull LTDC but I can add it if you think it's good enough.

So you're both anti-CS people, huh. I thought the whole "remove CS from Defense" thing was just for Standard, with the argument being it can't handle the much heavier metagame. I personally think it should stay where it is, but tall Track CS can go to Balance, seeing as that's also the compromise that was made in Standard.

EDIT: Can anyone point out any Balance customs that I missed? I put all the ones I could think of off the top of my head but I probably missed some.

I really like Uranus and Orion on Omega.

I don't really like Screw tbh...

I actually really like Scythe B.

I'll give more input once im less busy.

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

I've always used AD145 instead of W145, but saw them both as fairly interchangeable. Is there a reason why people think W145 is noticeably better?

As for Screw, I'd suggest skimming through the tests on the first page of this thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-LTD-Screw-Discussion

Screw can barely hit 50% against most defense types and in some cases was getting as low as 20%.

---

Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

I've always used AD145 instead of W145, but saw them both as fairly interchangeable. Is there a reason why people think W145 is noticeably better?

As for Screw, I'd suggest skimming through the tests on the first page of this thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-LTD-Screw-Discussion

Screw can barely hit 50% against most defense types and in some cases was getting as low as 20%.

A few people have done AD145/W145 solo spin/mirror match testing and W145 won. It could really just be a marginal difference though.

That thread is... underwhelming. Maybe Screw isn't as good as I thought it was. I already knew it was really situational (height matchups, CW choice, etc.) but I guess we'll have to retest it.

W145 was shown to actually have a noticeable downforce effect, if I remember correctly, which is why it replaced AD145 on many stamina combos in Standard when it was released.

---

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

Oh, I apologize then. I hadn't seen the testing that was done on the two parts; just assumed they performed roughly as well.

---

Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

I kinda abandoned this thread, but My input on the list:

Don't think Vulcan should be there.


There's like no testing on that genbull defence custom.

There's no testing with scythe F230 that I've seen or even tournament placings.

Where's duo on stamina?

Add Thief Phoenix R145/H145R2F and duo 230MB? And Maybe MSF-L Dark Knight Genbull B : D?

---

Signature credit to Leet.o

Spoiler (Click to View)

Threads you should read:

Pony King ? God, can't believe I typed this. I have to put my keyboard in the dishwasher now...

dude are you a gangster

LOL did you asked Midnight to take that pic?

When a monochrome picture is posted on WBO, it doesn't mean that it's always from Midnight.

I wouldn't trust someone with that many Cancer faces.

Well damn.

@[The Supreme One] Soul Baez V145AS

There's nothing else really to do or say except wait for the Superbowl, but I'm only here so I don't get fined.



Time. *gets up and leaves*

We won't have tournaments in the winter. Cause we are not one of those Canadian people where they just go outside like nothing happened to their hands.

i like my coffee like i like my men B)



i don't like coffee

I never have.

*Ginga*.. you're drunk bro... go home.. : )

Tbh SGMS & BDMS are kinda worthless.
MSUV is a far better spent investment; DGMF is even better IMO.

Um what? You're just saying that because you're a dragoon fanboy...

Why would I be suspended????

HMS summarised:




Anything not Tornado Type S:  Wolborg will leave you #rekt




Otherwise:  Go crazy with Ultimate Grip Flat 




For something less cookie-cutter:  Jiraiya sure is sexy

Is Wolborg 2 useless for competitive play?

Extremely useless. 
Now, if you come upon one I'll just PM you my address so you can throw it away. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I wasn't looking for Beyblade Underwear, I swear

Nice job, just a few things:

I don't really think Screw or Vulcan need to be there, especially with things like Cosmic, Beat, and especially Omega.

I'd really like to see Libra F230 (CF/GCF) alongside Scythe, seeing how well it did in my tests. Speaking of which, was Scythe F230 tested?

I don't think Meteo B should be on, I know others weren't to fond of it either. It's not that great, in my opinion.

---

Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Okay, let's get started on the attack section: Vulcan. In my opinion, it really doesn't have much use as apposed to Cosmic, Wyvang, or Omega. Screw. It just really doesn't have that power to even be close to a wheel like Omega or Lightning. Honestly, I'd like to see Pegasis uo there, I think everyone can agree that it's a good metal wheel.

Once I get more testing and testing from others, I'd like to see Aquario up there.

Defense section: I really think that Genbull LTDC custom needs more testing. I don't think it's ever even placed... It could be a fututre addition, but it seems like Omega would kill it.

Stamina section: I really don't think Burn and Meteo B should be up there, especially with hardly any testing.

Balance section: Burn F230CS has never really worked for me... It just didn't really work against most of the things I tested it against. Where's HTMB?

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Just skimming over your suggestions, I agree with Vulcan (not knowledgable enough to comment on anything else). I used it in a tournament just because a couple of times and it was pretty underwhelming. I'd be happy to test it along with Burn B:D and Genbull when I can.

---

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

Alright, I updated it.

• Kicked Burn and Meteo B:D, since they already seemed on thin ice to begin with.
  
• Totally forgot about Pegasus and Hasbro Duo, sorry.
  
• Kept the Genbull LTDC for now, but it'll get kicked if there isn't enough evidence for it.
  
• According to th!nk and a few others Screw's main competition was Pegasus, meaning they are about equal. If one goes up the both probably should.
  
• I don't think there's been any testing for Beat, but if there was it was pretty unimpressive.
  
• Scythe F230GCF is really more common sense than anything else. If Libra can do well on that setup, with its vulnerable underside, why not Scythe, which has a smooth underside and more Stamina?
  

Alright, I updated it.

• Kicked Burn and Meteo B, since they already seemed on thin ice to begin with.
  
• Totally forgot about Pegasus and Hasbro Duo, sorry.
  
• Kept the Genbull LTDC for now, but it'll get kicked if there isn't enough evidence for it.
  
• According to th!nk and a few others Screw's main competition was Pegasus, meaning they are about equal. If one goes up the both probably should.
  
• I don't think there's been any testing for Beat, but if there was it was pretty unimpressive.
  
• Scythe F230GCF is really more common sense than anything else. If Libra can do well on that setup, with its vulnerable underside, why not Scythe, which has a smooth underside and more Stamina?
  

Beat definitely showed potential, more so than Screw in my opinion, I'll try to link the topics once I find them. There was testing.

Libra is definitely another option for it (that still does well), so it should at least be added with it, since it's not just "common sense" and there are tests. Sorry if that sounded rude, haha.

---

Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Duo:

• (MF-L/MF-F)Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/90/85 WD/EWD
  
• (MF-L/MF-F)Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades TH170/SR200/230 D/SD/TB/MB
  

What about Duo _ B for Duo and MF on Omega? I feel they should be added.