MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion (v1.5 - 9/20/16)

Is there any specific reason that Phantom was banned besides being a 4D wheel? Was the Phantom wheel specifically too heavy or too OP? Or has it been tested yet?
(Sep. 08, 2015  4:28 AM)Taiwo Seigi Wrote: Is there any specific reason that Phantom was banned besides being a 4D wheel? Was the Phantom wheel specifically too heavy or too OP? Or has it been tested yet?
It's completely way too OP, i could simply walk away with Phantom Aquarius 85MF
and win the tournament.

In general, Phantom can be used as a stamina and attack type.
(Sep. 08, 2015  4:28 AM)Taiwo Seigi Wrote: Is there any specific reason that Phantom was banned besides being a 4D wheel? Was the Phantom wheel specifically too heavy or too OP? Or has it been tested yet?
It's definitely too heavy and too overpowered for Limited. 4D Phantom may not be top tier for stamina in Standard, but it's still one of the best 4D wheels out there, especially when used as a tornado staller.
Phantom W145 RF was scary back when the best defense wheels were Basalt and Diablo.
I hate to totally shut down discussion when it comes to Limited Format, but ... Duo and Phantom are never getting unbanned. Period. Haha.

(Sep. 08, 2015  1:34 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: How can Libra be expensive when the Super Deck Set is like ¥1500? lol

The Booster Libra is rather expensive now, as far as I know! The mold is significantly different and heavier as well (better suited for pure Defense). The Super Deck Set mold is better for Stamina, but also has a bit more recoil due to the mold change (which can be an advantage in some situations offensively).
If you can even find it. There is one used on ebay for $75 and one new $150. Laughable. Not even a hardcore ebay addict like myself is gonna spend that much
While I didn't really have any strong opinions about banning Libra and Omega or keeping them legal, I do think that banning both rather than just one was a good call. Here's what I think will happen:

The best Attack wheels become Dark Knight, LLD, Screw, Cosmic, and Pegasis. 3 of those 5 are weak to LTDC so those will become popular (It would be cool to see other people using Bakushin 90RSF too). Stamina might become taller to stop the LTDC, but if it does all of the primary Attack wheels can hit HTSC pretty hard.

A lot of people have pointed out Jade becoming useful due to being so heavy. I remember @[Yuko Ray14] used Jade CH120RF to a 4th place finish at AN 2014 so maybe he could vouch for how well it works. Jade TH170RB might also become popular since it's tall enough to avoid LTDC and has the weight/Smash to put MTSC and lighter Attack types in the dirt. I've only ever used Jade in the joke Stamina custom Jade Capricorne AD145WD (that surprisingly works) and it has a decent amount of Upper Smash (or maybe it's just the CW) and can grind down opponents similarly to Death (I've outspun Scythe B:D this way).
just to be sure in the OP after the new list you got the explained in spoiler and it says RS Banned... Is banned or Unbanned?!
Omega is also missing on the ''Detailed Explanations''
(Sep. 08, 2015  7:55 PM)MissingNo. Wrote: Omega is also missing on the ''Detailed Explanations''

It's under "ALL 4D/SYNCHROM EXCEPT JADE"
I personally don't think that omega should be banned. Either that or there should be a middle teir, with stuff like omega and gravity un banned. Basically everything that is too op for limited, but not quite good enough for standard.
(Sep. 08, 2015  11:28 PM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: I personally don't think that omega should be banned. Either that or there should be a middle teir, with stuff like omega and gravity un banned. Basically everything that is too op for limited, but not quite good enough for standard.

Omega destroys like all Defense.Not trying to be rude, but you probably wouldn't know because you haven't went to a tournament or tested it. Try testing it for yourself.
(Sep. 08, 2015  11:28 PM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: I personally don't think that omega should be banned. Either that or there should be a middle teir, with stuff like omega and gravity un banned. Basically everything that is too op for limited, but not quite good enough for standard.
Eh a middle tier might be a bit to much to keep up with and kinda confusing. Also there wouldn't be to much options really and you'd have to make to many specifics.


(Sep. 08, 2015  11:33 PM)UltimateOrion Wrote:
(Sep. 08, 2015  11:28 PM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: I personally don't think that omega should be banned. Either that or there should be a middle teir, with stuff like omega and gravity un banned. Basically everything that is too op for limited, but not quite good enough for standard.

Omega destroys like all Defense.Not trying to be rude, but you probably wouldn't know because you haven't went to a tournament.
Usually when you say not trying to be rude it usually means your saying something that they might take to an offense and you are still saying it anyway. Just because he hasn't been to a tournament doesn't completely mean he can't know how parts perform or try them for him self. Be a little softer on a newer member please.
He's been here since 2013 though. But I agree with that comment Thunder Dome.

But it depends on if he has the equipment to test combos and parts.
(Sep. 08, 2015  11:28 PM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: I personally don't think that omega should be banned. Either that or there should be a middle teir, with stuff like omega and gravity un banned. Basically everything that is too op for limited, but not quite good enough for standard.

Like a new Limited format kind of thing? It sounds really interesting honestly...

Yup, I remember at AN 2014, Yukoray14 used Jade a lot for attack and he really liked it, it really wasn't all that bad. Possibly someone could get some Jade attack testing going? Cake already found a use for a defense combo that works well against Left Spin attack which is crucial at the moment.

MF-H Jade Cancer F230CF is pretty good as well, from light testing I've done, it seems to do well against most left spin attackers if launched lightly.
(Sep. 08, 2015  11:59 PM)LMAO Wrote: Like a new Limited format kind of thing? It sounds really interesting honestly...
I honestly think a 4d limited with no synchrome would be super cool. Or maybe no zero g parts altogether. It would finally give the bulk of the 4d wheels and hell and basalt a chance to be used
How about a list of "modifier" rules that could be applied and removed modularly to any format of event?
(Sep. 09, 2015  12:31 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: How about a list of "modifier" rules that could be applied and removed modularly to any format of event?
So your saying like the host can decide "let's allow these parts"? That wouldn't really be fair for points honestly if one event my host says we can use X part and then in another region the host says you can't use X part. It is already kinda of a stretch to group 3 formats together for points, but letting hosts mix up "modifier rules" at an event seems like to much.
I love the potential of a format modifier! Imagine if we could break Standard into smaller subiformats (e.g. Metal System though Maximum Series (minus Basalt), Metal System though 4D). It would be so cool to simulate the metas of 2010-11 and 2012.

/nostalgia

EDIT: sorry, didn't realize what thread I was in lol...
@[Thunder Dome]
I don't think that's what he was saying at all, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he was saying that from time-to-time the format change, say every 2 months, and that during that period the ban list for every region would change to fit the new format.
(Sep. 09, 2015  12:58 AM)Stormscorpio1 Wrote: @[Thunder Dome]
I don't think that's what he was saying at all, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he was saying that from time-to-time the format change, say every 2 months, and that during that period the ban list for every region would change to fit the new format.
What? Changing the ban list every few months to support a different region seems really weird honestly. Like I was saying those events would never be able to be placed in the point system if everyone was using different ban lists. That just throws up so much mess and debate for no reason.

@[Bey Brad] could you re-elaborate your idea again please?
My take on that is that it would limit from what generation you could use.

Like for example:
4D Limited! : Only parts from Beyblade: Metal Fusion/Fight to Beyblade 4D.
NO Zero-G/ Shogun Steel parts.

This could just mean none of the wheels or it could mean absolutely none of those parts. It pushes back the meta game to an earlier time.
I was actually just proposing a list of optional rules that hosts could choose to append to their events, e.g. No [X] part, No Beyblades over [x] weight, etc. I don't think it could be competitively ranked for the more fun ones, though. Smile
I've always been for three separate rulings for sanctioned Beyblade tournaments.


Standard
Which is the format we all know and love. It consists of all the released legitimate parts, and has no ban list. But we all know that this format is basically the Synchrome Format. Just look at the competitive list. Only three actual wheels beyond zero-g are used (Flash/Duo/Diablo).

Synchrome-less
Which is a format where all parts are allowed (including zero-g), except synchromes are banned (and possibly Flash/Duo/Diablo since they're so dominant and stifling). This way, you open the path to new combos and new strategies with wheels that you weren't really allowed to use before. It would make the format great for exploring and experimenting with.

Limited
Which is a format that has restrictions and rules that are currently in place and placing bans on parts that restrict creativity and are stifling to core gameplay. Of course, Synchromes/4D (Jade really should get banned)/RDF/Large Disks/etc.


I understand the issues with complications, confusion that is associated with new rules, and having to learn every format and learn every part of the game... (And there are already lots of confusion as is with the formats as they stand...) but really, think about how much fun it would be to look into your parts bin and be able to use almost every piece you've invested in and spent money on. Like... your Basalt no longer needs to cry in a corner, Phantom will rise again, and you can make that anti-attack Wing Pegasus thing you've always wanted to make.

By having three separate lists, you also open up the creativity of players. You wouldn't really need special rules by judges since everything will be represented. Every part would get some sort of use. And there will be distinctly different metagames within each format (I really think Synchrome-less will have the highest variety of strategies).

I think that's something I really want to push for. I don't see the harm in promoting creativity.