MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion (v1.5 - 9/20/16)
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Pretty happy with the bans!
Omega was a great and reliable (correct me if I'm wrong) Attack wheel. And on RSF and RB, it showed to be powerful and controllable. With this ban, I'll be happy to see how Limited Attack gets used at the next Toronto tournament (my birthday bash :3)!
Libra was great as Defense, stamina and anti-Attack! Extremely versitale, and really deserved the ban. As some people have said, I do agree Bakushin LTDC will be a replacement.
Omega was a great and reliable (correct me if I'm wrong) Attack wheel. And on RSF and RB, it showed to be powerful and controllable. With this ban, I'll be happy to see how Limited Attack gets used at the next Toronto tournament (my birthday bash :3)!
Libra was great as Defense, stamina and anti-Attack! Extremely versitale, and really deserved the ban. As some people have said, I do agree Bakushin LTDC will be a replacement.
Cake Wrote:I'm going to get to work on testing this now. I'll probably have them posted in a little over an hour.
Thanks Cake! Jade is seriously an overlooked part in Limited. I would have definitely tested it in the past if owned one. Jade for anti-attack would definitely be interesting. I still remember how Ultimate Blaze's Jade RF combo was able to beat JesseObre's Lightning attack setup at a tournament last year.
BladeRager Wrote:I actually tested it at one point and it didn't do that bad as a replacement for Libra.
I don't know man. It has Libra's shape but there still is a very significant weight difference.
How can Libra be expensive when the Super Deck Set is like ¥1500? lol
Has anyone taken a chance to try 4D Duo Attack mode?
It's so crappy in Stamina and Defense...but it works as an Anti-Attack.
It's so crappy in Stamina and Defense...but it works as an Anti-Attack.
While that's true, I think Stars is suggesting that we test out Duo in its Attack Mode, which puts it terribly off balance.
I like the idea, though.
I like the idea, though.
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(Sep. 08, 2015 2:02 AM)jonahblader13 Wrote:I think Stars is suggesting potentially unbanning Duo, although I still think it's shape and weight will still be enough to definitely take over the Limited Meta. That's all based on past knowledge though real testing would have to be done before making any conclusion.(Sep. 08, 2015 1:57 AM)Stars Wrote: Has anyone taken a chance to try 4D Duo Attack mode?
It's so crappy in Stamina and Defense...but it works as an Anti-Attack.
This is limited format. 4D Duo is banned.
(Sep. 08, 2015 2:02 AM)jonahblader13 Wrote:think a little bit, Stamina mode and Attack Mode is entirely different. Attack mode makes duo movemore aggressive but since it moves like an attack type it doesn't even survive for long.(Sep. 08, 2015 1:57 AM)Stars Wrote: Has anyone taken a chance to try 4D Duo Attack mode?
It's so crappy in Stamina and Defense...but it works as an Anti-Attack.
This is limited format. 4D Duo is banned.
Only suggesting to unban duo but only in attack mode.
(Sep. 08, 2015 2:05 AM)Thunder Dome Wrote:(Sep. 08, 2015 2:02 AM)jonahblader13 Wrote:I think Stars is suggesting potentially unbanning Duo, although I still think it's shape and weight will still be enough to definitely take over the Limited Meta. That's all based on past knowledge though real testing would have to be done before making any conclusion.(Sep. 08, 2015 1:57 AM)Stars Wrote: Has anyone taken a chance to try 4D Duo Attack mode?
It's so crappy in Stamina and Defense...but it works as an Anti-Attack.
This is limited format. 4D Duo is banned.
Sorry about the misunderstanding. Duo in attack mode may be able to be unbanned. I will try some testings.
I think even with Duo in attack mode, it would still probably be crazy good for defense, tbh.
(Sep. 08, 2015 2:11 AM)jonahblader13 Wrote:I still don't think this completely changes the fact that it is 40-43 grams from what I remember. I feel undoubtedly this would become the next Libra/Omega and need to be eventually re banned. Weight seems to be a very dominant force in the Limited Meta Game and I really don't want to let this thing lose.(Sep. 08, 2015 2:05 AM)Thunder Dome Wrote:(Sep. 08, 2015 2:02 AM)jonahblader13 Wrote: This is limited format. 4D Duo is banned.I think Stars is suggesting potentially unbanning Duo, although I still think it's shape and weight will still be enough to definitely take over the Limited Meta. That's all based on past knowledge though real testing would have to be done before making any conclusion.
Sorry about the misunderstanding. Duo in attack mode may be able to be unbanned. I will try some testings.
From my experience, a worn Duo in attack mode can act very similar to Duo in Stamina mode, so if Duo was to get unbanned in attack mode only then I would say that judges would need to check the Duo out to make sure that it's moving like it should. Anyway I dont see Duo getting unbanned even in attack mode, it's simply too heavy to be balanced in the Limited format.
(Sep. 08, 2015 2:21 AM)Stormscorpio1 Wrote: From my experience, a worn Duo in attack mode can act very similar to Duo in Stamina mode, so if Duo was to get unbanned in attack mode only then I would say that judges would need to check the Duo out to make sure that it's moving like it should. Anyway I dont see Duo getting unbanned even in attack mode, it's simply too heavy to be balanced in the Limited format.Also that would be quite a process and lead to many controversies if the judge had to decide how worn the Duo is if you really wanted to resort to that method if Duo was ever unbanned.
Yeah I think that it would be a lot more trouble than it's worth to unban it.
Duo is one of, if not the best wheel for stamina in Standard, so I just don't see how it could possibly be legalized in Limited, especially now that stamina has a huge advantage with Omega and Libra out for attack (not exactly pleased with the Libra ban, but that's another story). Back when I first got Duo and was still a noob, I would accidentally set Duo in attack mode from time to time, and while the difference in performance is noticeable, there's still absolutely no way that it's on the same playing field as Meteo, Earth, etc.
Edit: I would also second Mitsu's point—it's so much heavier than every other metal wheel in Limited, that even if isn't killer in stamina, it'll certainly destroy defense. And is it really worth the trouble of having to check the wheel before every match to make sure that it's in the approved mode?
Edit: I would also second Mitsu's point—it's so much heavier than every other metal wheel in Limited, that even if isn't killer in stamina, it'll certainly destroy defense. And is it really worth the trouble of having to check the wheel before every match to make sure that it's in the approved mode?
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Yeah, I feel like there would always be someone accidentally using it in Stamina resulting in an overpowered bey in Limited. I agree that even in Attack mode, it's weight is too much for Limited. However, it wouldn't hurt just to test it our, right?
(Sep. 08, 2015 1:31 AM)Mitsu Wrote:Cake Wrote:I'm going to get to work on testing this now. I'll probably have them posted in a little over an hour.
Thanks Cake! Jade is seriously an overlooked part in Limited. I would have definitely tested it in the past if owned one. Jade for anti-attack would definitely be interesting. I still remember how Ultimate Blaze's Jade RF combo was able to beat JesseObre's Lightning attack setup at a tournament last year.
Tests are up!
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Everyone's forgetting to mention that it is a lot more work for judges to check if Duo is actually in Attack mode.
Went ahead and tried out Cosmic again, I honestly feel as if it is the best Right spin attack option at the moment. Someone start testing!
Went ahead and tried out Cosmic again, I honestly feel as if it is the best Right spin attack option at the moment. Someone start testing!
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(Sep. 08, 2015 2:54 AM)LMAO Wrote: Everyone's forgetting to mention that it is a lot more work for judges to check if Duo is actually in Attack mode.Actually it not even a lot work for a judge to actually know it's attack. Just gotta feel around the metal wheel. It'll have a oval feel.
Basalt would be a great example because of the bump/oval shape.
(Sep. 08, 2015 2:54 AM)LMAO Wrote: Everyone's forgetting to mention that it is a lot more work for judges to check if Duo is actually in Attack mode.I'll do some Cosmic testing once I get home from school tomorrow.
Went ahead and tried out Cosmic again, I honestly feel as if it is the best Right spin attack option at the moment. Someone start testing!
(Sep. 08, 2015 3:01 AM)Stars Wrote:(Sep. 08, 2015 2:54 AM)LMAO Wrote: Everyone's forgetting to mention that it is a lot more work for judges to check if Duo is actually in Attack mode.Actually it not even a lot work for a judge to actually know it's attack. Just gotta feel around the metal wheel. It'll have a oval feel.
Imagine if the judge isn't as experienced, they'd have to take apart the whole custom, check the wheel, then the blader would have to put it back together. It's an unnecessary waste of time.
@[Stormscorpio1] Thanks, looking forward to those tests! Just like Pegasis, it does well when it's the same height as the opponent, CH120RF is usually the best on it.
(Sep. 08, 2015 3:04 AM)LMAO Wrote:Well the judge should be experienced enough to know that. But if they are there has got to be someone who can help. I doubt taking it apart would help them anyway. I am not at all in favor of allowing attack duo because no one will use it as it just isn't applicable to any customs that I can think of.(Sep. 08, 2015 3:01 AM)Stars Wrote:(Sep. 08, 2015 2:54 AM)LMAO Wrote: Everyone's forgetting to mention that it is a lot more work for judges to check if Duo is actually in Attack mode.Actually it not even a lot work for a judge to actually know it's attack. Just gotta feel around the metal wheel. It'll have a oval feel.
Imagine if the judge isn't as experienced, they'd have to take apart the whole custom, check the wheel, then the blader would have to put it back together. It's an unnecessary waste of time.
@[Stormscorpio1] Thanks, looking forward to those tests! Just like Pegasis, it does well when it's the same height as the opponent, CH120RF is usually the best on it.
Do we have limited for burst format yet? I don't think so because the only parts that would be on it are heavy and maybe defense. We don't have enough parts yet but I would love to help decide what's on the list when we get it started.
We should honestly just drop the "judge decides if the Duo is...." thing right now. There is no testing right now so no signs of Duo (Attack Mode) coming to limited.
Bladerguy2, it was quite early to think about a Limited format for burst since it really just came out and the part pool is quite small enough already. I like your initiative to help but it might be a few years before we need/want a limited format for Burst.
Bladerguy2, it was quite early to think about a Limited format for burst since it really just came out and the part pool is quite small enough already. I like your initiative to help but it might be a few years before we need/want a limited format for Burst.