Here we go! Don't have the combos for Standard, but here are the limited tournament combinations for Raleigh-Revival-Taking back the city!

Alright, I'm home.

Well, the results for Limited format!

1st: TheBlackDragon (MF-F/H Earth Pegasis II 85CS, MF-H Lightning L-Drago TR145/CH120R2F, MF-H Duo Pegasis II 230MB, Scythe Pegasis II 230CS, MF-H Gravity Perseus (Stamina ver.) F230CF)

Yes, I used Gravity F230. XD I was in the middle of a stalling clause, and Dark called 30 seconds and it was the only thing I had built, so I had to go with it. I only used it once, though.

2nd: BladerLight (Lightning L-Drago TR145R2F, Meteo L-Drago B : D)

He used plenty of other stuff, but I can't remember exactly what. I know he didn't use Gravity, though.

3rd: Wombat (MF-H Bakushin Leone 90RSF, MF-H Lightning L-Drago TR145R2F)

He also used a couple other things, but I'm not totally sure what. Positive there was no Gravity.

---

All in all, today was an awesome day. Both events were absolutely fantastic... Gravity F230 actually only won twice today. Lightning Attack was all over the place, and it kinda took a dive (plus, we actually found out that Burn 85MF can take it out).

I'd also like to note that there are no conventional Gravity Attack/Stamina customs in the winning combos. Gravity Attack was not used, and Gravity Stamina only showed up twice, both cases in which it lost. Called it...

And I went 2-0 against Geester! CHEW ON THAT MARYLAND!!

And here we see why I kinda wanted to hold off on an update to see what happened w/ regards to gravity. Will Give LLD TR145RF a shot for sure though I still have never found LLD that great especially vs gravity. Perhaps it'll provide something against scythe defense too, which is something (though even then, still not a big thing). Either way, why was it specifically so popular? I assume it's related to gravity f230cf not appearing?

How did Scythe do, out of curiosity? 230CS is a good setup (though personally I think Scythe benefits hugely from TH170) but the meta I'm seeing there isn't friendly to it.

Lastly, what did gravity lose to and were there any factors in people not using it that you know of that are unrelated to its performance/place in the meta? Or heck, generally speaking why did it not work.

Sorry for the inquisition but I'm sure you'll soon stumble into the banlist discussion threads and understand why I'm throwing this at you, haha.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I'd also like to note that there are no conventional Gravity Attack/Stamina customs in the winning combos. Gravity Attack was not used, and Gravity Stamina only showed up twice, both cases in which it lost. Called it...

I think–intentionally or not–you're painting an inaccurate picture in order to justify your perspective that ban on Gravity was not necessary. What Gravity is best at in this format is what you would consider an "unconventional" Stamina combo (Gravity F230CF/GCF, though I'd call this "Balance" because of the versatility of what it is capable of), which you hesitantly used, and also Attack, which you say wasn't used. The other uses it has are of course notable, but I personally wouldn't say that they are it's strength (though I may be underestimating the power of Gravity Perseus D125GCF); they only contribute to how good it is overall.

Just because it wasn't used much in one tournament doesn't negate what we already know about it, and considering that at least some Bladers actively avoided using it, I don't know how seriously we can take these results as being completely and accurately representative of the Limited Format as it stands under Ban List v1.0. The same could be said for other tournaments where it has been stated that people avoided using it (or at least particular customs that use it) to some degree out of some sense that it is "boring", "cheap", or "unfair". This only serves to imply that it actually is too powerful, as th!nk talked about here. In any case, the fact that Gravity is too powerful/versatile still stands regardless based on the testing that was done, the tournament results that were submitted where use of Gravity was not discouraged/avoided in any way and by anybody, and our knowledge of Gravity's physical properties and capabilities in comparison to other regular Wheels. With it gone, a slew of other Attack Wheels like Lightning, Beat, Cosmic, Omega, Wyvang, and Pegasis all become more viable which is the entire goal of this format: to allow us to use a wide selection of parts/customizations that we would not be able to normally. Gravity was arguably the best Attack Wheel in the format, but beyond even that was it's unarguable versatility and ease of use not only in Attack but in Stamina and Balance, which is what put it over the top. Nothing is unbeatable, including Gravity, but when you have something that is so insanely versatile, other options become much less attractive because they are more specialized (ie. risky).

I also find it interesting that each of the top three finishers used essentially the same Attack combo: Lightning L-Drago TR145R2F. This is surprising especially given all of the other options that are more viable when Gravity is not present. Do you know why that is?

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You know I personally disagree that Gravity is that much more versatile than other Attack wheels, so I'm not gonna answer to that part specifically (although, wherever the testing is that outlines Gravity as more effective/versatile than Beat/Cosmic/Lightning, I would really like to see it because I may have missed something important )

Only one of us was avoiding Gravity (Wombat). I simple prefer Lightning more, and so did Bladerlight.

Again, saying that leaving out F230CF/GCF combinations is not accurate is assuming Gravity is the source of the problem. You can look at this two different ways:

First, you could assume that Gravity's dual-spin is making F230 too versatile.

Second, you could say that F230's attributes are making Gravity too versatile.

There are ways to get rid of both, but the fact is neither is more true than the other. After that, it totally comes down to your opinion on whether or not conventional Gravity customs are overpowered (which is the point we disagree on). Therefore, I was outlining statistics concerning them, since they ultimately make or break the deal.

Actually, I made that reply in the tournament thread before I knew the update had happened, so... Yah.

Also, if you missed it, you might wanna take a look at what Coach said here.

I really hope I didn't offend you (super sorry if I did).

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Nobody there owned Beat/Cosmic but me, and I preferred Lightning because people were using 230 Stamina and Burn 85MF, both of which I thought Lighting would handle better (and it did really well against both, I'm happy to say).

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

1st Place Happy Gnu Year (Zero-G)

BillyBlast (Myself)

MSF Gryph Dragooon SA165RDF (Defense Mode)
MSF Begirados Begirados W145CF (Decided Mirror Match for a fun final with time)

Used But Lost: MF-M Duo Bull W145BWD

Wanted to use but was too scared to and had fun in free play killing E230s : MF Meteo L-Drago BD145RDF

Don't remember much of the other players combos. I know a lot of Dragooon B:Ds though and F230CFs

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1st Place Beyblade Colosseum 1 2013
1st Place Five Fists Beyday (Maryland Beyday 2012)

25 Tournaments Attended: 9 Placed In

Tournament List

Spoiler (Click to View)

Total 25 Tournaments, 2 HMS, 2 Plastics, 14 BB-10 MFB 7 Zero-G MFB 1 Limited

3/19/11 Spring Cherry Blossom ARISE
5/14/11 Blademore
5/29/11 Beydays come on
6/12/11 Fill my eyes double beyblade tournament
8/12/11 Summer Spin Showdown
9/18/11 Better Than School
10/16/11 The Dual Duel
11/19/11 Novembrr-Brawl
2/25/12 Leap Year Lashing
3/25/12 Cherry Blossom Combat 3rd Place
4/29/12 Spring Sortie 1st Place
5/26/12 Five Fist BeyDay 1st Place
7/22/12 The Triple Threat
8/12/12 The Lazy Hazy Swayz Beys of Summer
9/23/12 Autumn Assault 3rd Place
10/21/12 October Achtung 4th Place
11/17/12 Thrills, Spills, and Chills! 1st Place
2/2/13 Beyblade Colossuem 1st Place
3/24/13 Merry 2nd Anniversary 1st Place
4/21/13 Beyblade Revolution Qualifier
7/14/13 Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness!
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! 1st Place
3/30/14 GBT2: Maryland Qualifier

2nd place in happy gnu year
I refused to use anything on the top tier list today, so here we go with the logic behind each
Msf begiradoas begiradoas th190 rsf (destabilizer/smash attack)
Phantom Sagittario II w145 CS (no real description, just awesome)
Balro dragooon b:d (used to win three times)
Duo cancer sa165 ewd (used against Aru and somehow beat left spin f230)

The only times I lost were against star's left spin f230 using gravity f230, against billy when he aggroed launched dragooon rdf against dragooon bd and in mine and billys mirror match to decide first and second using msf begiradoas begiradoas w145 cf (mine tht had a smiley face drawn on the msf lost)

[West Islip, NY, USA] 1/19/13-Clash Of The Beys(Zero G):

1. 1stegasus of NJ-Duo Aquario B, Revizer Dragoon SA165(Attack Mode) W2D
   2nd:UltimateOrion- MSF-L Girago Dragoon SA165(Attack Mode)EWD/W2D, Death Bull B, Begarados Balro E230GCF
   3rd:UltimateCrown-MSF-L Girago Dragoon SA165(Attack Mode)EWD,Duo Aquario SA165BWD
   

[West Islip, NY, USA] 1/19/13-Clash Of The Beys(Standard Format):

1. 1st:UltimateOrion- MSF-L Girago Dragoon SA165(Attack Mode) EWD/W2D, MSF-H Wyvang Wyavng BD145RSF
   2nd:UltimateCrown- Duo Aquario SA165BWD/EWD, MSF Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF,MF Duo Bull F230CF
   3rdegasus of NJ-Duo Aquario B, Revizer Dragoon SA165(Attack Mode) W2D
   

Spoiler (Click to View)

I'd also like to note that there are no conventional Gravity Attack/Stamina customs in the winning combos. Gravity Attack was not used, and Gravity Stamina only showed up twice, both cases in which it lost. Called it...

I think–intentionally or not–you're painting an inaccurate picture in order to justify your perspective that ban on Gravity was not necessary. What Gravity is best at in this format is what you would consider an "unconventional" Stamina combo (Gravity F230CF/GCF, though I'd call this "Balance" because of the versatility of what it is capable of), which you hesitantly used, and also Attack, which you say wasn't used. The other uses it has are of course notable, but I personally wouldn't say that they are it's strength (though I may be underestimating the power of Gravity Perseus D125GCF); they only contribute to how good it is overall.

Just because it wasn't used much in one tournament doesn't negate what we already know about it, and considering that at least some Bladers actively avoided using it, I don't know how seriously we can take these results as being completely and accurately representative of the Limited Format as it stands under Ban List v1.0. The same could be said for other tournaments where it has been stated that people avoided using it (or at least particular customs that use it) to some degree out of some sense that it is "boring", "cheap", or "unfair". This only serves to imply that it actually is too powerful, as th!nk talked about here. In any case, the fact that Gravity is too powerful/versatile still stands regardless based on the testing that was done, the tournament results that were submitted where use of Gravity was not discouraged/avoided in any way and by anybody, and our knowledge of Gravity's physical properties and capabilities in comparison to other regular Wheels. With it gone, a slew of other Attack Wheels like Lightning, Beat, Cosmic, Omega, Wyvang, and Pegasis all become more viable which is the entire goal of this format: to allow us to use a wide selection of parts/customizations that we would not be able to normally. Gravity was arguably the best Attack Wheel in the format, but beyond even that was it's unarguable versatility and ease of use not only in Attack but in Stamina and Balance, which is what put it over the top. Nothing is unbeatable, including Gravity, but when you have something that is so insanely versatile, other options become much less attractive because they are more specialized (ie. risky).

I also find it interesting that each of the top three finishers used essentially the same Attack combo: Lightning L-Drago TR145R2F. This is surprising especially given all of the other options that are more viable when Gravity is not present. Do you know why that is?

Spoiler (Click to View)

You know I personally disagree that Gravity is that much more versatile than other Attack wheels, so I'm not gonna answer to that part specifically (although, wherever the testing is that outlines Gravity as more effective/versatile than Beat/Cosmic/Lightning, I would really like to see it because I may have missed something important :x)

Only one of us was avoiding Gravity (Wombat). I simple prefer Lightning more, and so did Bladerlight.

Again, saying that leaving out F230CF/GCF combinations is not accurate is assuming Gravity is the source of the problem. You can look at this two different ways:

First, you could assume that Gravity's dual-spin is making F230 too versatile.

Second, you could say that F230's attributes are making Gravity too versatile.

There are ways to get rid of both, but the fact is neither is more true than the other. After that, it totally comes down to your opinion on whether or not conventional Gravity customs are overpowered (which is the point we disagree on). Therefore, I was outlining statistics concerning them, since they ultimately make or break the deal.

Actually, I made that reply in the tournament thread before I knew the update had happened, so... Yah.

Also, if you missed it, you might wanna take a look at what Coach said here.

I really hope I didn't offend you (super sorry if I did). :S

---

Nobody there owned Beat/Cosmic but me, and I preferred Lightning because people were using 230 Stamina and Burn 85MF, both of which I thought Lighting would handle better (and it did really well against both, I'm happy to say).

I think the problem we have is not that Gravity is too powerful or unbeatable, but that it's too versatile. It was just like back in the day when Dragooon was just released. I went to like the first NC tournament where Dragooon was available and literally everyone spammed MSF-H Dragooon Dragooon BD145MF. It attacks, defends, and spin-steals, and since it was so new no one really knew how to beat it except for to fight Dragooon with Dragooon. In that tournament it was the only combo in the Top 3 and only the top 3 people used it. Later in Colosseum I used Killerken Dragooon BD145MF a lot, because it stood a decent chance against most everything, just like Gravity today. There were one or two occasions where I was like "Oh shoot, I have no idea what this guy might use" and most likely would have thrown Gravity at him if I had brought it to the tournament just because it's a safe bet against most everything.

In all honesty Gravity isn't hands down the best Attack Wheel, it's up there with Wyvang and Lightning. The problem with Gravity is that it spins both right and left, and can change mid-battle giving it a strategic edge. Meteo also spin-steals better but is restriced to left-spin and has zero defense (even if you weak launch it, Bakushin RSF can KO it). We found out that Burn 90MF can take down Gravity F230 pretty consistently, but it isn't just a counter because it can beat other things too.

Like I said in the Raleigh revival thread I think most people avoided using Gravity because it was seen as a "cheap" move. I heard things like "Oh guys everyone go Lightning R145RF Dark's going to spam Gravity F230" (more or less and actual quote), and in the winning combinations TheBlackDragon also tried to "justify" his use of Gravity F230, and when people saw him using it in the final match they were all like "wow, Gravity F230? Really?" Out of the four times I lost, twice it was to Gravity F230. I used something that could beat it both times, but failed to win the first time because I suck with attack and lost 3-2 the second time with Burn 90MF.

Anyways, I think we should just wait until we find things that can beat Gravity easily, but are still relevant in other matchups, like when someone discovered that Synchrom B:D shut down Dragooon BD145MF (but then again that led to SA165 stamina and the ridiculous D-series hierarchy and inaccurate hypothetical matchups). If nothing appears, Gravity can stay banned but if something does we can unban it.

Again, sorry for the long post. I didn't mean any offense, sorry if it offended you. Just my input on the Gravity debate.

Just for reference, Gravity Perseus (Stamina) outspins MLD in a spin-steal matchup from my testing. Need to do formally recorded rounds but it has a very clear edge.

Other than that, I'm staying out of this particular discussion, makes for good reading though.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

In regards to the Limited NC event:

Some people "Agreed" not to use F230 CF, me I said forget that. I spammed the poop out of it. Personally I used Gravity as a hybrid. Lighting is hands down better for attack. Lighting was KOing the poop out of everything. I saw it send everything across the room(LITERALLY) Lighting ____LRF says sup.

Burn 85/90 MF: This combo had NO problem OSing Gravity Perseus F230 CF. I think it even got a KO once.Personally I was never a fan of this type of combo. But it works.

Gravity by itself isn't really a problem id say. I would say its more "versatile". Its like a swiss army knife. A skilled player can KO it rather easily.

Without Gravity in the Limited Format I see Lighting being the "Dominate" wheel used now. Personally I am worried about how F230 CF will be used in the coming months. Its a versatile setup. Meteo L Drago F230 CF will see more play now.

I go on the record and say that banning gravity was a bit to early and premature. The format is way to young for it just yet. Unbanning Omega is okay. Currently on the fence about RB. But gravity.....

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WBO Facebook | WBO Twitter

Beginner's Guide to the WBO!

My Blog (Updated 9/24

OK, let me just try to transfer all the discussion about the agreement of using or not using something at the North Carolina tournament to this topic, because right now we could reply in any of three threads ...

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MFB-Limi...pid1190045

Dark when I played wombat in limited he used burn 90 mf and I used gravity f230 gcf and I won by OS. I think 85 is needed on the burn staller to effectively and consistently beat f230 cf by OS

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NORTH AMERICAN CHAMPION (MFL) 2014
You gotta risk it to get the biscuit

BEYBLADE WORLD CUP CHAMPION (BST) 2023
You gotta be in the fight to win the fight

Here's the combos from the Year of the Bey Zero-G and Limited tournaments.

Zero-G

1st: Leone19 - Genbull Dragoon F230 CF, Phantom Cancer B
2nd: akalajian - Phantom Orion BD
3rd: nohzone - Gryph Kraken S130 RB

Limited

1st: Leone19 - Meteo L-Drago F230 CF
2nd: Naijalak - Earth Cygnus AD145 WD
3rd: akalajian - Thermal Orion BD

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Here's the combos from the Year of the Bey Zero-G and Limited tournaments.

Zero-G

1st: Leone19 - Genbull Dragoon F230 CF, Phantom Cancer B
2nd: akalajian - Phantom Orion BD
3rd: nohzone - Gryph Kraken S130 RB

Limited

1st: Leone19 - Meteo L-Drago F230 CF
2nd: Naijalak - Earth Cygnus AD145 WD
3rd: akalajian - Thermal Orion BD

We just love F230. It can be used on everything. Right Leone19?
No offense.

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I am an odd person sometimes, here's why (Click to View)

Yes! Thermal placed! (My favorite not-that-great wheel :3)

GO THERMAL!

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Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

Here's the combos from the Year of the Bey Zero-G and Limited tournaments.

Zero-G

1st: Leone19 - Genbull Dragoon F230 CF, Phantom Cancer B
2nd: akalajian - Phantom Orion BD
3rd: nohzone - Gryph Kraken S130 RB

Limited

1st: Leone19 - Meteo L-Drago F230 CF
2nd: Naijalak - Earth Cygnus AD145 WD
3rd: akalajian - Thermal Orion BD

We just love F230. It can be used on everything. Right Leone19?
No offense.

I know you said no offense, but I can't tell if this was a sarcastic post...

The only reason I used it again in Limited, was it was the only good thing I had to use- that or Meteo with W145, 230, or B, which was already being used a bunch by others. I could have used Scythe, but I realized I had a bad mold of it, unfortunately.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Props to Akalajian for placing with Thermal. You're awesome, dude.
I must say, I love the combos Nohzone uses; they're usually totally random, but they seem to do pretty well.

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Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

As long as F230 is legal, then people need to back off those who use it. If it works, it's legal, and you've got it, it makes sense to use it.

Would you enter a competition with anything less than your best?

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Naijalak makes a good point. While it's disappointing when one combo dominates a tournament because people don't want to take a risk, I personally don't blame or judge anyone who uses F230. In the end, it's all about who has the most competitive parts. If a part isn't banned, there's no reason why one shouldn't use it. All Leone19's winning combo says about him is that he spends time on the forum looking into what would be the most competitive; how is that worthy of criticism?

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Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

He's got a big enough target on his back after placing 1st in the past few tournaments

Gotta step up my game!

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Thanks for that support, haha.

The sarcastic critism isn't really needed: I used a legal part and placed with it. I understand that people don't like it/want it banned, but I see no problem using it; it's legal. It took me a lot of time to finally obtain it; no point in letting it go to waste.

Just becuase some Meta's tend to have "agreements not to use it" and things like that, does not mean one cannot use it at all.

Heck, a few matches were close, actually- some Sway KO's and especially the final battle against a Phantom B. Limited matches were even closer.

I really don't appreciate that comment, though, Aquamarine.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

I'm really happy to see F230 be used. 'Cause for all you know, it might get banned. So have fun with it whilst you can. I love that Meteo set-up, so good one Leone19. I was waiting to see it used in a tournament, after all my testing, haha, thanks.

Thermal that. is. awesome.

Congratz to all the placers!!

There's no shame in using a part you can.

I don't mind F230 in limited at all, Standard I kinda resent it, as for 0G; I'd love to see it banned
Congrats on your win though

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

Here's the combos from the Year of the Bey Zero-G and Limited tournaments.

Zero-G

1st: Leone19 - Genbull Dragoon F230 CF, Phantom Cancer B
2nd: akalajian - Phantom Orion BD
3rd: nohzone - Gryph Kraken S130 RB

Limited

1st: Leone19 - Meteo L-Drago F230 CF
2nd: Naijalak - Earth Cygnus AD145 WD
3rd: akalajian - Thermal Orion BD

We just love F230. It can be used on everything. Right Leone19?
No offense.

I know you said no offense, but I can't tell if this was a sarcastic post...

The only reason I used it again in Limited, was it was the only good thing I had to use- that or Meteo with W145, 230, or B, which was already being used a bunch by others. I could have used Scythe, but I realized I had a bad mold of it, unfortunately.

Scythe would still have outspun both Thermal and Earth no matter what mold it was on a standard stamina setup, FWIW.

On F230 - I *think* Aquamarine just meant to comment on the strength of the part itself, so maybe the stream of comments wasn't justified (though really, directing it at a specific user was bound to cause something like this in response - tact, my friends, is a virtue), but interesting it still placed without Gravity. From the list I'm assuming attack didn't see much use in Limited? Specifically, did you face any RF users with that meteo combo, Leone19?

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

We just love F230. It can be used on everything. Right Leone19?
No offense.

I know you said no offense, but I can't tell if this was a sarcastic post...

The only reason I used it again in Limited, was it was the only good thing I had to use- that or Meteo with W145, 230, or B, which was already being used a bunch by others. I could have used Scythe, but I realized I had a bad mold of it, unfortunately.

Scythe would still have outspun both Thermal and Earth no matter what mold it was on a standard stamina setup, FWIW.

On F230 - I *think* Aquamarine just meant to comment on the strength of the part itself, so maybe the stream of comments wasn't justified (though really, directing it at a specific user was bound to cause something like this in response - tact, my friends, is a virtue), but interesting it still placed without Gravity. From the list I'm assuming attack didn't see much use in Limited? Specifically, did you face any RF users with that meteo combo, Leone19?

Actually, it faced Bull CH120 LRF, ironically enough used by Bullchamp.

I believe he had 1 KO, but I cannot specifically remember.

Ironically enough, it was KO'ed by Libra 100 D.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Ah, well Bull isn't exactly a huge offensive presence - shockingly ineffective looking at its design tbh, not something I'd face down any fast moving opposite spin bey with

Man, can't wait til I get my F230 and see if I can launch Libra hard enough to pull that off myself, daaang.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List