Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events

Lord Spriggan coming in with a bang! And all 3 with the same build x)
(Aug. 17, 2019  7:10 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: BoogietheBlader, I think you accidentally tagged the wrong person. Infinity-Z is how you format it (you'll see it if you quote this post)

Thank you!
(Aug. 17, 2019  7:13 PM)~Mana~ Wrote:
(Aug. 17, 2019  7:11 PM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: How many people participated in this? Was spin change allowed?

36 participants, spin changing was not permitted to keep it in line with Requiem and Cho-Z.
No one bothered to use JJ to ko Lord Spriggan?
(Aug. 17, 2019  7:13 PM)~Mana~ Wrote:
(Aug. 17, 2019  7:11 PM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: How many people participated in this? Was spin change allowed?

36 participants, spin changing was not permitted to keep it in line with Requiem and Cho-Z.

That rule makes me think of Union Achilles. I think it would make sense to not allow any mode changes that require you to take the Layer apart.
Yeah. That's pretty much the ruling anyway; mode changes that require disassembly are generally not permitted. The only exception we've ever had to that rule is that I think Legend Spriggan is permitted one mode change?

But otherwise, yes, that's pretty much the case, haha.
so is attack meta already dead  Andrew
(Aug. 17, 2019  10:53 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: so is attack meta already dead  Andrew

Yes, Archer is unburstable.
(Aug. 17, 2019  10:53 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: so is attack meta already dead  Andrew

Well, Cho-Z Achilles is starting to die off a little bit. Judgement and Zwei seem to be two of the most popular Bases for GT combos alongside Dread and Lord. All of the threats have started to scared Perfect Phoenix away, but it's still a decent part of the meta, as well as Hell Salamander. I think GT has made people want to experiment a little bit more, but Defense and Stamina combos are seeming way to consistent to be dethroned any time soon.

(Aug. 17, 2019  11:02 PM)g2_ Wrote:
(Aug. 17, 2019  10:53 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: so is attack meta already dead  Andrew

Yes, Archer is unburstable.

Archer Hercules literally gets wrecked by Cho-Z Achilles...
(Aug. 17, 2019  11:04 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote:
(Aug. 17, 2019  10:53 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: so is attack meta already dead  Andrew

Well, Cho-Z Achilles is starting to die off a little bit. Judgement and Zwei seem to be two of the most popular Bases for GT combos alongside Dread and Lord. All of the threats have started to scared Perfect Phoenix away, but it's still a decent part of the meta, as well as Hell Salamander. I think GT has made people want to experiment a little bit more, but Defense and Stamina combos are seeming way to consistent to be dethroned any time soon.

(Aug. 17, 2019  11:02 PM)g2_ Wrote: Yes, Archer is unburstable.

Archer Hercules literally gets wrecked by Cho-Z Achilles...

My Archer beats Judgment Valkyrie.
(Aug. 11, 2019  1:29 AM)Kei Wrote: ALTERNATE BEY DIMENSION' - 8/10/19
Toronto, ON, Canada - Burst Format
1st: 1234beyblade
Cho-Z Spriggan 10 Cross Bearing
Cho-Z Spriggan Vanguard Bearing
Cho-Z Spriggan Blitz Charge
Archer Hercules 0 Cross Xtend Plus
Hell Salamander 0 Cross Xtend Plus
Judgment Diabolos 0 Dagger Xtreme Dash (Deck Format Finals Only)

2nd: Kei
Flare Ashura Vanguard Bearing Sen
Balkesh B3 00 Wall Bearing
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 0 Cross Xtend Plus
Perfect Phoenix (Level Chip) 0 Cross Xtend Plus
Judgment Diabolos 0 Glaive Xtreme Dash
Zwei Longinus 00 Bump Weight Metsu

3rd: OldSchool™
Judgment Diabolos Blitz Hunter Dash
Judgment Diabolos Blitz Xtreme Dash

4th: MDK Shady

Click Here to Read My ALTERNATE BEY DIMENSION' Report
Congrats winners. I have some questions
@[1234Beyblade]
Why Vanguard? 

@[Kei] 
How did Flare do?


(Aug. 17, 2019  6:20 PM)~Mana~ Wrote: The Great British Bey Off
London, UK - 17/08/19

1st - ~Mana~
Lord Spriggan 7Wall Bearing
Cho-Z Achilles Sting Charge (Deck Format Only)

2nd - Mini Me
Lord Spriggan 7Wall Bearing

3rd - Mr LT
Lord Spriggan 7Wall Bearing

I think this speaks for itself.

A fantastic day, but dominated largely by the arrival of Lord Spriggan. Big oof.

Ban hammer awaits Spriggan-Sama Wink

@[~Mana~] @[Mini Me] and @[Mr LT]

Why was 7Wall used instead of something like 0(0)/10Wall?
(Aug. 17, 2019  9:57 PM)~Mana~ Wrote: Yeah. That's pretty much the ruling anyway; mode changes that require disassembly are generally not permitted. The only exception we've ever had to that rule is that I think Legend Spriggan is permitted one mode change?

But otherwise, yes, that's pretty much the case, haha.

Twin Nemesis, Alter Chronos, Hell Salamander have mode changes that require taking the bey apart, so I'm pretty sure Union's mostly useless mode change will be allowed with a once-per rule like the rest of these layers.

(Aug. 17, 2019  7:08 PM)BoogietheBlader Wrote: Showdown in Chi-Town

1st -Infinity-Z
Cho-Z spriggan 00 wall Bearing  (deck)
Zwei Longinus sting destroy'  metsu (Deck)
Judgement Ashura 0bump quick' zan (deck)
Perfect Phoenix blitz xtend+ (group)

2nd - AirKingNeo
Cho-z Achilles sting atomic (group and deck)
Judgement Joker 0bump xtreme'  metsu  (Deck and Group)
Zwei longinus 00cross destroy ' zan  (deck)
Hell salamander sting orbit (deck and Group)

3rd- Aedaillon
LC Perfect Phoenix 00cross xtend+ (deck and Group)
Hell salamander 10proof Destroy' (deck)
Judgement ashura 0bump quick ' zan (deck)
MGC drain fafnir  00cross xtend+ (group)

4-Me!


Thank you all for coming! See you next time!

MVP of my team was JJ.0B.X' 滅. It won me all my rounds in the Group Stage, except the one where I tried to use wV.0B.X' and the won I did use CzA.St.At, and it helped me turn around my semifinals match vs Aedaillon, which was 1-9 in his favor to an 11-9. I would have used a Dragon over Joker, but the night before I realized it was missing a tooth. I only used hS.St.O in Deck, not Group stage. I used it because it works as a KO resist bey against Judgement with Orbits KO resistance. I had a stationary attack Zwei combo for Deck that did not win, as it couldn't deal with Cho-Z Spriggan on Bearing and was beat by Infinity-Z's Zwei on Ds'.



To comment about the recent tournament with Lord Spriggan, I still think Bearing should be banned. It's made to be used in unfair scenarios that can remove its counterplay: Being used on opposite spin beys to ignore its weak spring, and being used on Cho-Z Spriggan and Lord Spriggan, which have burst stoppers that further remove its counterplay. B3.00W.Br doesn't have a weak spring, and spin steals better due to being light. Bearing doesn't do anything fair and never has. I think the meta would be better off without it.
(Aug. 17, 2019  11:56 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote:
(Aug. 17, 2019  9:57 PM)~Mana~ Wrote: Yeah. That's pretty much the ruling anyway; mode changes that require disassembly are generally not permitted. The only exception we've ever had to that rule is that I think Legend Spriggan is permitted one mode change?

But otherwise, yes, that's pretty much the case, haha.

Twin Nemesis, Alter Chronos, Hell Salamander have mode changes that require taking the bey apart, so I'm pretty sure Union's mostly useless mode change will be allowed with a once-per rule like the rest of these layers.

(Aug. 17, 2019  7:08 PM)BoogietheBlader Wrote: Showdown in Chi-Town

1st -Infinity-Z
Cho-Z spriggan 00 wall Bearing  (deck)
Zwei Longinus sting destroy'  metsu (Deck)
Judgement Ashura 0bump quick' zan (deck)
Perfect Phoenix blitz xtend+ (group)

2nd - AirKingNeo
Cho-z Achilles sting atomic (group and deck)
Judgement Joker 0bump xtreme'  metsu  (Deck and Group)
Zwei longinus 00cross destroy ' zan  (deck)
Hell salamander sting orbit (deck and Group)

3rd- Aedaillon
LC Perfect Phoenix 00cross xtend+ (deck and Group)
Hell salamander 10proof Destroy' (deck)
Judgement ashura 0bump quick ' zan (deck)
MGC drain fafnir  00cross xtend+ (group)

4-Me!


Thank you all for coming! See you next time!

MVP of my team was JJ.0B.X' 滅. It won me all my rounds in the Group Stage, except the one where I tried to use wV.0B.X' and the won I did use CzA.St.At, and it helped me turn around my semifinals match vs Aedaillon, which was 1-9 in his favor to an 11-9. I would have used a Dragon over Joker, but the night before I realized it was missing a tooth. I only used hS.St.O in Deck, not Group stage. I used it because it works as a KO resist bey against Judgement with Orbits KO resistance. I had a stationary attack Zwei combo for Deck that did not win, as it couldn't deal with Cho-Z Spriggan on Bearing and was beat by Infinity-Z's Zwei on Ds'.



To comment about the recent tournament with Lord Spriggan, I still think Bearing should be banned. It's made to be used in unfair scenarios that can remove its counterplay: Being used on opposite spin beys to ignore its weak spring, and being used on Cho-Z Spriggan and Lord Spriggan, which have burst stoppers that further remove its counterplay. B3.00W.Br doesn't have a weak spring, and spin steals better due to being light. Bearing doesn't do anything fair and never has. I think the meta would be better off without it.

Quite the input there, but banning Bearing would also mean having to ban specifically czS and LS, both of which also have those Burst stop/resist gimmicks as you have mentioned. Following that action, we'll probably have to ban Outer and Xt+ since that instead would dominate the WBO meta for spin equalizing as soon as Bearing goes off the grid. pP won't need to be banned since Judgment and czA exist, aH and hS will probably still dominate somewhat, and Sr will have a comeback with the absence of its larger successors. 

Of course many would probably bash/flame me for knowing "nothing" about the meta, but this is what I observed mainly from the WBO results that don't have too many restrictions with Bearing and other seemingly unfair part usage. Heck, if WBO rules followed Japan's ruleset (where mode changes are seemingly allowed anytime during play based on the YT Japanese tournaments I saw), may will also be vehemently against the usage of spin-direction mode changes entirely because of the existence of Bearing alone on the game. I'm not saying I'm against banning Bearing, but banning a part would just give rise to dominance of a previously unfair part/s
(Aug. 18, 2019  12:36 AM)Rouzuke Wrote:
(Aug. 17, 2019  11:56 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: Twin Nemesis, Alter Chronos, Hell Salamander have mode changes that require taking the bey apart, so I'm pretty sure Union's mostly useless mode change will be allowed with a once-per rule like the rest of these layers.


MVP of my team was JJ.0B.X' 滅. It won me all my rounds in the Group Stage, except the one where I tried to use wV.0B.X' and the won I did use CzA.St.At, and it helped me turn around my semifinals match vs Aedaillon, which was 1-9 in his favor to an 11-9. I would have used a Dragon over Joker, but the night before I realized it was missing a tooth. I only used hS.St.O in Deck, not Group stage. I used it because it works as a KO resist bey against Judgement with Orbits KO resistance. I had a stationary attack Zwei combo for Deck that did not win, as it couldn't deal with Cho-Z Spriggan on Bearing and was beat by Infinity-Z's Zwei on Ds'.



To comment about the recent tournament with Lord Spriggan, I still think Bearing should be banned. It's made to be used in unfair scenarios that can remove its counterplay: Being used on opposite spin beys to ignore its weak spring, and being used on Cho-Z Spriggan and Lord Spriggan, which have burst stoppers that further remove its counterplay. B3.00W.Br doesn't have a weak spring, and spin steals better due to being light. Bearing doesn't do anything fair and never has. I think the meta would be better off without it.

Quite the input there, but banning Bearing would also mean having to ban specifically czS and LS, both of which also have those Burst stop/resist gimmicks as you have mentioned. Following that action, we'll probably have to ban Outer and Xt+ since that instead would dominate the WBO meta for spin equalizing as soon as Bearing goes off the grid. pP won't need to be banned since Judgment and czA exist, aH and hS will probably still dominate somewhat, and Sr will have a comeback with the absence of its larger successors. 

Of course many would probably bash/flame me for knowing "nothing" about the meta, but this is what I observed mainly from the WBO results that don't have too many restrictions with Bearing and other seemingly unfair part usage. Heck, if WBO rules followed Japan's ruleset (where mode changes are seemingly allowed anytime during play based on the YT Japanese tournaments I saw), may will also be vehemently against the usage of spin-direction mode changes entirely because of the existence of Bearing alone on the game. I'm not saying I'm against banning Bearing, but banning a part would just give rise to dominance of a previously unfair part/s

Banning Bearing doesn't mean banning CzS and Lord. Logically speaking, that connection makes zero sense. Bearing would be banned for its own reasons. CzS and Lord would be fine on other drivers. I don't think Outer would need a ban because I think offensive beys can beat it with outclassing it in weight. Xtend+ is a very powerful driver, and it could be possible that it would need a ban (though I doubt it given the WBO's resistance to banning parts), but Bearing is more powerful than Xt+ on those layers.

So yes, you're correct that banning Bearing would just mean those layers start using Atomic, Xtend+, and Orbit Metal, but all of those drivers are less effective than Bearing is on those layers, so it is a nerf. Plus, Bearing is just problematic from a design standpoint by being so powerful with a trade-off of less burst resistance that can easily be ignored.

Allowing spin direction changing would remove counterplay by never being allowed a same spin matchup, which is problematic when spin stealing is a thing. Plus, CzS.St.At is a combo used in Japan because it's a defensive bey that always gets an opposite spin matchup, effectively being a much much better hS.St.At.
(Aug. 17, 2019  11:53 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Ban hammer awaits Spriggan-Sama Wink

@[~Mana~] @[Mini Me] and @[Mr LT]

Why was 7Wall used instead of something like 0(0)/10Wall?

Not sure it needs a ban just yet! This was the first event it's been used in, and I'm sure the metagame just needs a little bit of time to adjust to potential counters. More Zwei usage would likely help to keep it in check, for example.

7 was tighter than 0, 00 and 10 on this, so that's why it saw use here. That Bey was not coming apart at all, it was tough to even put it together, haha.

Worth noting that all of those were painted Disks as well, which does make a difference here.

(Aug. 17, 2019  11:56 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote:
(Aug. 17, 2019  9:57 PM)~Mana~ Wrote: Yeah. That's pretty much the ruling anyway; mode changes that require disassembly are generally not permitted. The only exception we've ever had to that rule is that I think Legend Spriggan is permitted one mode change?

But otherwise, yes, that's pretty much the case, haha.

Twin Nemesis, Alter Chronos, Hell Salamander have mode changes that require taking the bey apart, so I'm pretty sure Union's mostly useless mode change will be allowed with a once-per rule like the rest of these layers.

I'll be honest, I completely forgot those even had other modes, pfahahaha. Most mode-changing Beys in Burst just have the one useful mode that nobody switches out of Unhappy



Can't say I agree with the comments here regarding a Bearing ban; I think the part generally balances itself with it's abysmal Burst resistance. It's the Layers that are the issue in most of these scenarios; Lord shouldn't have a Burst Stopper as significant as it does, that's not the fault of Bearing at all, that's an indication that Lord is problematic. If it's not going to Burst on Bearing, it's not Bursting on anything at all and, while Bearing does provide that massive stamina potential, having a Layer that is effectively unburstable in a metagame (while also being a fantastic spin-equaliser and effectively a zombie) is the true issue.

I'll reserve judgment on how much of a negative impact Lord truly is for now, as I think the metagame will move to adopt counters to Lord in standard play and that'll be when we can see truthfully how bad it is. But I don't think hitting Bearing is the right move unfortunately.

Permitting free spin-rotation changing would be horrible. Let's not even consider that, haha.
(Aug. 18, 2019  1:13 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: Banning Bearing doesn't mean banning CzS and Lord. Logically speaking, that connection makes zero sense. Bearing would be banned for its own reasons. CzS and Lord would be fine on other drivers. I don't think Outer would need a ban because I think offensive beys can beat it with outclassing it in weight. Xtend+ is a very powerful driver, and it could be possible that it would need a ban (though I doubt it given the WBO's resistance to banning parts), but Bearing is more powerful than Xt+ on those layers.

So yes, you're correct that banning Bearing would just mean those layers start using Atomic, Xtend+, and Orbit Metal, but all of those drivers are less effective than Bearing is on those layers, so it is a nerf. Plus, Bearing is just problematic from a design standpoint by being so powerful with a trade-off of less burst resistance that can easily be ignored.

Allowing spin direction changing would remove counterplay by never being allowed a same spin matchup, which is problematic when spin stealing is a thing. Plus, CzS.St.At is a combo used in Japan because it's a defensive bey that always gets an opposite spin matchup, effectively being a much much better hS.St.At.
Congrats on a great finish at your tournament, and doing so without Bearing in your list at that!
Is there a reason why you chose not to play Bearing?  It seems like you have access to many good parts so I am just assuming you are able to play bearing and chose not to.  Perhaps those same reasons why other are resisting the ban?
I'm a firm believer that Bearing does not need a ban. Even a combo like Lord Longinus Ratchet Bearing is beatable. Most people would use that in Deck Format alone, but some people are different. One of Bearing's weaknesses is that it's best when used on Ratchet or with the Wall Frame. They both scrape, which makes them pretty bad in same-spin combos. The metagames in places that don't get WBO events might revolve solely around using the Bearing Driver on Cho-Z Awakening Beys or a GT Bey with Gen because some places allow you to remove the frame mid-battle. Since the WBO doesn't allow that, the Bearing Driver is risky to use. Another weakness it has is that the Layers it's good on don't have a lot of raw Stamina, even with Disks/Frames that don't scrape. Cho-Z Spriggan and Gen combos are too light to have a lot of Stamina, while the Lord Base's rubber reduces its Stamina potential in-battle.
(Aug. 18, 2019  1:35 AM)~Mana~ Wrote:
(Aug. 17, 2019  11:53 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Ban hammer awaits Spriggan-Sama Wink

@[~Mana~] @[Mini Me] and @[Mr LT]

Why was 7Wall used instead of something like 0(0)/10Wall?

Not sure it needs a ban just yet! This was the first event it's been used in, and I'm sure the metagame just needs a little bit of time to adjust to potential counters. More Zwei usage would likely help to keep it in check, for example.

7 was tighter than 0, 00 and 10 on this, so that's why it saw use here. That Bey was not coming apart at all, it was tough to even put it together, haha.

Worth noting that all of those were painted Disks as well, which does make a difference here.

(Aug. 17, 2019  11:56 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: Twin Nemesis, Alter Chronos, Hell Salamander have mode changes that require taking the bey apart, so I'm pretty sure Union's mostly useless mode change will be allowed with a once-per rule like the rest of these layers.

I'll be honest, I completely forgot those even had other modes, pfahahaha. Most mode-changing Beys in Burst just have the one useful mode that nobody switches out of Unhappy



Can't say I agree with the comments here regarding a Bearing ban; I think the part generally balances itself with it's abysmal Burst resistance. It's the Layers that are the issue in most of these scenarios; Lord shouldn't have a Burst Stopper as significant as it does, that's not the fault of Bearing at all, that's an indication that Lord is problematic. If it's not going to Burst on Bearing, it's not Bursting on anything at all and, while Bearing does provide that massive stamina potential, having a Layer that is effectively unburstable in a metagame (while also being a fantastic spin-equaliser and effectively a zombie) is the true issue.

I'll reserve judgment on how much of a negative impact Lord truly is for now, as I think the metagame will move to adopt counters to Lord in standard play and that'll be when we can see truthfully how bad it is. But I don't think hitting Bearing is the right move unfortunately.

Permitting free spin-rotation changing would be horrible. Let's not even consider that, haha.
if you want counters I got counters or nerf not bans please no bans
 counters: lord spriggan 00wall bearing simple atomic in the same spin 
lord spriggan sting or around atomic bearing combo in opposite spin 
lord spriggan disk rubber driver choz spriggan 7 proof keep
lord spriggan with random lad combo for attack bearing in opposite spin with a light launch to decrease ko's 
nerfs no painted disc's or no bearing on it if that's your main concern
(Aug. 18, 2019  2:20 AM)Shindog Wrote:
(Aug. 18, 2019  1:13 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: Banning Bearing doesn't mean banning CzS and Lord. Logically speaking, that connection makes zero sense. Bearing would be banned for its own reasons. CzS and Lord would be fine on other drivers. I don't think Outer would need a ban because I think offensive beys can beat it with outclassing it in weight. Xtend+ is a very powerful driver, and it could be possible that it would need a ban (though I doubt it given the WBO's resistance to banning parts), but Bearing is more powerful than Xt+ on those layers.

So yes, you're correct that banning Bearing would just mean those layers start using Atomic, Xtend+, and Orbit Metal, but all of those drivers are less effective than Bearing is on those layers, so it is a nerf. Plus, Bearing is just problematic from a design standpoint by being so powerful with a trade-off of less burst resistance that can easily be ignored.

Allowing spin direction changing would remove counterplay by never being allowed a same spin matchup, which is problematic when spin stealing is a thing. Plus, CzS.St.At is a combo used in Japan because it's a defensive bey that always gets an opposite spin matchup, effectively being a much much better hS.St.At.
Congrats on a great finish at your tournament, and doing so without Bearing in your list at that!
Is there a reason why you chose not to play Bearing?  It seems like you have access to many good parts so I am just assuming you are able to play bearing and chose not to.  Perhaps those same reasons why other are resisting the ban?

I don't own Bearing. I could have used it as my friend Infinity-Z has a second one, but I don't own layers that are effective at using it. There's an obvious "ah ha" moment where I could be seen as biased against Bearing for not owning it, but genuinely I just don't like it in practice. It makes battles boring because there's no action with it.

It's also important to note Infinity-Z was the only one at the tournament using CzS.00W.Br. No one I saw had B3.?W.Br, and the closest thing I saw was a hSH4.?G.Br.

(Aug. 18, 2019  1:35 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: Can't say I agree with the comments here regarding a Bearing ban; I think the part generally balances itself with it's abysmal Burst resistance. It's the Layers that are the issue in most of these scenarios; Lord shouldn't have a Burst Stopper as significant as it does, that's not the fault of Bearing at all, that's an indication that Lord is problematic. If it's not going to Burst on Bearing, it's not Bursting on anything at all and, while Bearing does provide that massive stamina potential, having a Layer that is effectively unburstable in a metagame (while also being a fantastic spin-equaliser and effectively a zombie) is the true issue.

I'll reserve judgment on how much of a negative impact Lord truly is for now, as I think the metagame will move to adopt counters to Lord in standard play and that'll be when we can see truthfully how bad it is. But I don't think hitting Bearing is the right move unfortunately.

Permitting free spin-rotation changing would be horrible. Let's not even consider that, haha.

It isn't just burst stoppers and rubber stoppers preventing Bearing from bursting. It's also the fact opposite spin can use it, which we saw last year with hS/Sr.0L.Br. It's not even Bearing being powerful, but warping the metagame around it by forcing a triangle where it's hard for any right spin bey to beat Bearing, unless they are also Bearing (which is incredibly unviable), which is beaten by an offensive left spin bey, but offensive left spin isn't really good into any right spin beys.

When talking about Lord and CzS instead of Bearing, we should consider other Driver options and how those are played around in the metagame. Orbit Metal? Can be outspun by Xt+ and At, and still bursted by same spin attack. Atomic? Can be outspun by Xt+ and has KO risk. Xtend+? Has KO risk, can be tied/outspun by opposite spin and same spin Xt+, and be bursted by same spin attack. With Bearing, the opposite spin with the same driver scenario is removed, and genuinely having 3 driver options would be more variety than 1, which is Bearing.

Ultimately, testing would be the answer.
(Aug. 18, 2019  2:59 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote:
(Aug. 18, 2019  2:20 AM)Shindog Wrote: Congrats on a great finish at your tournament, and doing so without Bearing in your list at that!
Is there a reason why you chose not to play Bearing?  It seems like you have access to many good parts so I am just assuming you are able to play bearing and chose not to.  Perhaps those same reasons why other are resisting the ban?

I don't own Bearing. I could have used it as my friend Infinity-Z has a second one, but I don't own layers that are effective at using it. There's an obvious "ah ha" moment where I could be seen as biased against Bearing for not owning it, but genuinely I just don't like it in practice. It makes battles boring because there's no action with it.

It's also important to note Infinity-Z was the only one at the tournament using CzS.00W.Br. No one I saw had B3.?W.Br, and the closest thing I saw was a hSH4.?G.Br.

(Aug. 18, 2019  1:35 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: Can't say I agree with the comments here regarding a Bearing ban; I think the part generally balances itself with it's abysmal Burst resistance. It's the Layers that are the issue in most of these scenarios; Lord shouldn't have a Burst Stopper as significant as it does, that's not the fault of Bearing at all, that's an indication that Lord is problematic. If it's not going to Burst on Bearing, it's not Bursting on anything at all and, while Bearing does provide that massive stamina potential, having a Layer that is effectively unburstable in a metagame (while also being a fantastic spin-equaliser and effectively a zombie) is the true issue.

I'll reserve judgment on how much of a negative impact Lord truly is for now, as I think the metagame will move to adopt counters to Lord in standard play and that'll be when we can see truthfully how bad it is. But I don't think hitting Bearing is the right move unfortunately.

Permitting free spin-rotation changing would be horrible. Let's not even consider that, haha.

It isn't just burst stoppers and rubber stoppers preventing Bearing from bursting. It's also the fact opposite spin can use it, which we saw last year with hS/Sr.0L.Br. It's not even Bearing being powerful, but warping the metagame around it by forcing a triangle where it's hard for any right spin bey to beat Bearing, unless they are also Bearing (which is incredibly unviable), which is beaten by an offensive left spin bey, but offensive left spin isn't really good into any right spin beys.

When talking about Lord and CzS instead of Bearing, we should consider other Driver options and how those are played around in the metagame. Orbit Metal? Can be outspun by Xt+ and At, and still bursted by same spin attack. Atomic? Can be outspun by Xt+ and has KO risk. Xtend+? Has KO risk, can be tied/outspun by opposite spin and same spin Xt+, and be bursted by same spin attack. With Bearing, the opposite spin with the same driver scenario is removed, and genuinely having 3 driver options would be more variety than 1, which is Bearing.

Ultimately, testing would be the answer.

Tank attackers that use Judgment may still pose a threat to LS, as long as you can get the hits early. But in terms of late-game, anything on Bearing that has a Burst stop/resist gimmick is a real meta breaker for Spin Finishes
(Aug. 18, 2019  1:35 AM)~Mana~ Wrote:
(Aug. 17, 2019  11:53 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Ban hammer awaits Spriggan-Sama ;)

@[~Mana~] @[Mini Me] and @[Mr LT]

Why was 7Wall used instead of something like 0(0)/10Wall?

7 was tighter than 0, 00 and 10 on this, so that's why it saw use here. That Bey was not coming apart at all, it was tough to even put it together, haha.

Worth noting that all of those were painted Disks as well, which does make a difference here.
The green ChoZ Triple Booster 7! Surprise, that thing is suddenly useful again!

Alright. It's been ONE tournament with Lord. We shouldn't be so crazy to rush to the bans. More like we need some testing, lots of testing, and tournaments, as has been said.

That said, if you were to solve it with bans, you have several options:
1) Ban Bearing. People will flock to Xt+ which is about to become more readily available, this solves literally nothing.
2) Ban Lord. That's not going to be a popular idea, it's brand new, and people loooooove Spriggan.
3) Ban Balkesh. Wait, that wouldn't solve this issue.
Or... and this is going to be REALLY unpopular... but solve a balance issue/exploit people are reluctant to address...
4) Ban painted discs on Burst Resistor beys.

I know! Everyone just read that idea for the first time and they already hate it! You wish you could negative heart this post right now. But hear me out:
I bought a Gold 0 and a Gold Sting just for Judgement. It's total garbage how unburstable it is with those discs in place, even though I've seen it happen before. Yes, it's providing a needed boost to the attack meta which has been suffering greatly in recent years, but just because we haven't discussed it doesn't mean it isn't total unfair pay-to-win garbage. The idea that a blader has to go and buy a painted disc just to reduce bursting. Ghastly. But Judgement is the first decent attack layer I've seen in ages. I've seen people use it, AND WIN, during the first stage of a tournament.
And I own the green 7. I bought that Triple pack just for Bearing and Wolborg. The 7 was just a nice bonus, I tend to run it with Glaive on left spin.

But now that we have a burst resistor on a stamina/balance type with a painted stamina core disc? Now we have a SERIOUS problem. Especially if the resistor isn't in the edge. When the resistor was at the end, you were only using about halfish of those little teeth. But with it in the middle, it's going to resist when it first gets there in addition to when additional hits try to drag it off there.

So that's why I'm going to give you ban idea number 5, and you're going to thank me for it:

5) Ban painted discs on the Lord layer base if it continues to dominate the top 3 spots exclusively, which it might not do.

You're Welcome.
I'm not against banning the use of painted discs on the Lord layer base or in any other layer for that matter, the painted surface adds grip and makes a thicker (albeit very minuscule). I just don't think it would solve the problem of the Lord Base layer; it has amplified the Bearing problem as well as its own problem. It's going to be hard to truly balance the meta game right now in a fair manner. Not that my opinion matters that much, but I would like to see what happens in the next 2-3 months without any changes made.
(Aug. 18, 2019  6:30 AM)BreakerDS Wrote: I'm not against banning the use of painted discs on the Lord layer base or in any other layer for that matter, the painted surface adds grip and makes a thicker (albeit very minuscule).  I just don't think it would solve the problem of the Lord Base layer; it has amplified the Bearing problem as well as its own problem.  It's going to be hard to truly balance the meta game right now in a fair manner.  Not that my opinion matters that much, but I would like to see what happens in the next 2-3 months without any changes made.

then ban bearing on lord spriggan doesn't that fix both bearing combo's are still around but lord spriggan isn't banned
Lord Spriggan with Bearing seems to stir another argument about bans right after it first shows up on the winning list..

Is it because Lord makes Bearing a lot safer with its burst stopper? If so, did this problem also show up back when ChoZ Spriggan also made Bearing more burst resistant?
(Aug. 18, 2019  2:16 PM)eigerblade Wrote: Lord Spriggan with Bearing seems to stir another argument about bans right after it first shows up on the winning list..

Is it because Lord makes Bearing a lot safer with its burst stopper? If so, did this problem also show up back when ChoZ Spriggan also made Bearing more burst resistant?

Cho-Z Spriggan was never the biggest problem, but it was up there for one of the best things to use on Bearing. The thing is that it doesn't have enough raw Stamina to be spammed. Lord Spriggan seems to have more weight, and therefore more solo spin time than Cho-Z Spriggan, but it has rubber. Neither of them can survive Same-Spin matches against Perfect Phoenix, Orb Egis, Archer Hercules, or Hell Salamander unless there's a lucky Burst.
(Aug. 18, 2019  2:28 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote:
(Aug. 18, 2019  2:16 PM)eigerblade Wrote: Lord Spriggan with Bearing seems to stir another argument about bans right after it first shows up on the winning list..

Is it because Lord makes Bearing a lot safer with its burst stopper? If so, did this problem also show up back when ChoZ Spriggan also made Bearing more burst resistant?

Cho-Z Spriggan was never the biggest problem, but it was up there for one of the best things to use on Bearing. The thing is that it doesn't have enough raw Stamina to be spammed. Lord Spriggan seems to have more weight, and therefore more solo spin time than Cho-Z Spriggan, but it has rubber. Neither of them can survive Same-Spin matches against Perfect Phoenix, Orb Egis, Archer Hercules, or Hell Salamander unless there's a lucky Burst.

I kinda think at same spin Lord still has a decent chance of outspinning Archer Hercules and Orb Egis slightly, at least due to its weight advantage.

But yeah, up until now ChoZ Spriggan with Bearing is still used often in my group, but lately Zwei and even Judgment can KO it somewhat consistently, making it less of a threat.

Lord seems to have more weight, along with rubber, so it does sound like an upgrade. It would be a problem if it proves to be too much of a safe-to-spam combo, but I think its too soon to call for bans on Lord.