Some interesting ideas being thrown around here, but I'd still stand by what I said before; let the metagame adjust to the addition of Lord Spriggan.

It came out literally last weekend and hasn't made it into the majority of people's hands yet, so there's minimal testing and a lot of assumptions being made here. There will always be growing pains when a meta-defining part is added to the game, and people have to adjust. It happens in pretty much any competitive game - for instance, Yu-Gi-Oh has a lot of growing pains when new meta decks or cards are added, but counter-plays are gradually worked out and the pains are eased bit by bit.

As a good example; having now tested at home (as I only got Lord at the event yesterday), nailing a KO with Zwei is seemingly like the most efficient way right now. We didn't have a tonne of Zwei around yesterday, and the matchups that there were between the two were so-so at the best of times. Trying it properly shows that it can and will nail that KO if it's used properly.

On the topic of triangles, squares etc; you also have to accept that not everything is going to be able to beat what you're up against, as regrettable as that is. I believe that's also something that Wombat's "Pick 3 Choose 1" proposal pretty much addresses; while it would increase preparation time before matches, it effectively provides the opportunity to see what 3 your opponent might use, and pick one from your 3 that'll have the best chances. It's something that people should go take a look at and weigh in on, as it's an interesting proposal.

Yes, Lord is really strong. No, we don't need to overreact yet. Those of us who have it or are getting it, get some testing in and get to the bottom of "what beats it". Restrictions should really only be considered here in a worst case scenario that the metagame doesn't adjust.

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Congrats on a great finish at your tournament, and doing so without Bearing in your list at that!
Is there a reason why you chose not to play Bearing?  It seems like you have access to many good parts so I am just assuming you are able to play bearing and chose not to.  Perhaps those same reasons why other are resisting the ban?

I don't own Bearing. I could have used it as my friend Infinity-Z has a second one, but I don't own layers that are effective at using it. There's an obvious "ah ha" moment where I could be seen as biased against Bearing for not owning it, but genuinely I just don't like it in practice. It makes battles boring because there's no action with it.

It's also important to note Infinity-Z was the only one at the tournament using CzS.00W.Br. No one I saw had B3.?W.Br, and the closest thing I saw was a hSH4.?G.Br.

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Can't say I agree with the comments here regarding a Bearing ban; I think the part generally balances itself with it's abysmal Burst resistance. It's the Layers that are the issue in most of these scenarios; Lord shouldn't have a Burst Stopper as significant as it does, that's not the fault of Bearing at all, that's an indication that Lord is problematic. If it's not going to Burst on Bearing, it's not Bursting on anything at all and, while Bearing does provide that massive stamina potential, having a Layer that is effectively unburstable in a metagame (while also being a fantastic spin-equaliser and effectively a zombie) is the true issue.

I'll reserve judgment on how much of a negative impact Lord truly is for now, as I think the metagame will move to adopt counters to Lord in standard play and that'll be when we can see truthfully how bad it is. But I don't think hitting Bearing is the right move unfortunately.

Permitting free spin-rotation changing would be horrible. Let's not even consider that, haha.

It isn't just burst stoppers and rubber stoppers preventing Bearing from bursting. It's also the fact opposite spin can use it, which we saw last year with hS/Sr.0L.Br. It's not even Bearing being powerful, but warping the metagame around it by forcing a triangle where it's hard for any right spin bey to beat Bearing, unless they are also Bearing (which is incredibly unviable), which is beaten by an offensive left spin bey, but offensive left spin isn't really good into any right spin beys.

When talking about Lord and CzS instead of Bearing, we should consider other Driver options and how those are played around in the metagame. Orbit Metal? Can be outspun by Xt+ and At, and still bursted by same spin attack. Atomic? Can be outspun by Xt+ and has KO risk. Xtend+? Has KO risk, can be tied/outspun by opposite spin and same spin Xt+, and be bursted by same spin attack. With Bearing, the opposite spin with the same driver scenario is removed, and genuinely having 3 driver options would be more variety than 1, which is Bearing.

Ultimately, testing would be the answer.

The first situation you stated is slightly different because we had no good left spin attacker. And, mobile left spin attackers do have a chance against right spin combos. ZL on X' can KO pP xt+ combos consistently.

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2 Versus 2 format should be a thing. Change my mind.

Cho-Z Spriggan was never the biggest problem, but it was up there for one of the best things to use on Bearing. The thing is that it doesn't have enough raw Stamina to be spammed. Lord Spriggan seems to have more weight, and therefore more solo spin time than Cho-Z Spriggan, but it has rubber. Neither of them can survive Same-Spin matches against Perfect Phoenix, Orb Egis, Archer Hercules, or Hell Salamander unless there's a lucky Burst.

I kinda think at same spin Lord still has a decent chance of outspinning Archer Hercules and Orb Egis slightly, at least due to its weight advantage.

But yeah, up until now ChoZ Spriggan with Bearing is still used often in my group, but lately Zwei and even Judgment can KO it somewhat consistently, making it less of a threat.

Lord seems to have more weight, along with rubber, so it does sound like an upgrade. It would be a problem if it proves to be too much of a safe-to-spam combo, but I think its too soon to call for bans on Lord.

I haven't tested Lord on Bearing much, but I can say that Lord Valyrie Blitz Ωcta is a monster. It outspins Left-Spin Atomic, Orb Egis on Orbit Metal, and can Burst a lot of other combos. It has a rough time against hS.Ω.Et and Left-Spin Bearing combos, but has a chance to KO hS.Ω.Et. There's no way something like Lord Valkyrie 0 Cross Xtend+ or Lord Valkyrie Sting Bearing will be safe to spam aside from Deck Format, but Lord is a really versatile Base that you have to look out for.

7 was tighter than 0, 00 and 10 on this, so that's why it saw use here. That Bey was not coming apart at all, it was tough to even put it together, haha.

Worth noting that all of those were painted Disks as well, which does make a difference here.

The green ChoZ Triple Booster 7! Surprise, that thing is suddenly useful again!

Alright. It's been ONE tournament with Lord. We shouldn't be so crazy to rush to the bans. More like we need some testing, lots of testing, and tournaments, as has been said.

That said, if you were to solve it with bans, you have several options:
1) Ban Bearing. People will flock to Xt+ which is about to become more readily available, this solves literally nothing.
2) Ban Lord. That's not going to be a popular idea, it's brand new, and people loooooove Spriggan.
3) Ban Balkesh. Wait, that wouldn't solve this issue.
Or... and this is going to be REALLY unpopular... but solve a balance issue/exploit people are reluctant to address...
4) Ban painted discs on Burst Resistor beys.

I know! Everyone just read that idea for the first time and they already hate it! You wish you could negative heart this post right now. But hear me out:
I bought a Gold 0 and a Gold Sting just for Judgement. It's total garbage how unburstable it is with those discs in place, even though I've seen it happen before. Yes, it's providing a needed boost to the attack meta which has been suffering greatly in recent years, but just because we haven't discussed it doesn't mean it isn't total unfair pay-to-win garbage. The idea that a blader has to go and buy a painted disc just to reduce bursting. Ghastly. But Judgement is the first decent attack layer I've seen in ages. I've seen people use it, AND WIN, during the first stage of a tournament.
And I own the green 7. I bought that Triple pack just for Bearing and Wolborg. The 7 was just a nice bonus, I tend to run it with Glaive on left spin.

But now that we have a burst resistor on a stamina/balance type with a painted stamina core disc? Now we have a SERIOUS problem. Especially if the resistor isn't in the edge. When the resistor was at the end, you were only using about halfish of those little teeth. But with it in the middle, it's going to resist when it first gets there in addition to when additional hits try to drag it off there.

So that's why I'm going to give you ban idea number 5, and you're going to thank me for it:

5) Ban painted discs on the Lord layer base if it continues to dominate the top 3 spots exclusively, which it might not do.

These are all the disks so far that I know can work with Lord’s burst prevention mechanism:

0 (painted or non-painted), outer(painted or non-painted) Vn, Rt, St (painted, not sure about non-painted), Ar, RT, Dr, Bl, 7 (painted, not sure about non-painted).  These are just the ones I quickly checked.  I am sure there are more.

The green ChoZ Triple Booster 7! Surprise, that thing is suddenly useful again!

Alright. It's been ONE tournament with Lord. We shouldn't be so crazy to rush to the bans. More like we need some testing, lots of testing, and tournaments, as has been said.

That said, if you were to solve it with bans, you have several options:
1) Ban Bearing. People will flock to Xt+ which is about to become more readily available, this solves literally nothing.
2) Ban Lord. That's not going to be a popular idea, it's brand new, and people loooooove Spriggan.
3) Ban Balkesh. Wait, that wouldn't solve this issue.
Or... and this is going to be REALLY unpopular... but solve a balance issue/exploit people are reluctant to address...
4) Ban painted discs on Burst Resistor beys.

I know! Everyone just read that idea for the first time and they already hate it! You wish you could negative heart this post right now. But hear me out:
I bought a Gold 0 and a Gold Sting just for Judgement. It's total garbage how unburstable it is with those discs in place, even though I've seen it happen before. Yes, it's providing a needed boost to the attack meta which has been suffering greatly in recent years, but just because we haven't discussed it doesn't mean it isn't total unfair pay-to-win garbage. The idea that a blader has to go and buy a painted disc just to reduce bursting. Ghastly. But Judgement is the first decent attack layer I've seen in ages. I've seen people use it, AND WIN, during the first stage of a tournament.
And I own the green 7. I bought that Triple pack just for Bearing and Wolborg. The 7 was just a nice bonus, I tend to run it with Glaive on left spin.

But now that we have a burst resistor on a stamina/balance type with a painted stamina core disc? Now we have a SERIOUS problem. Especially if the resistor isn't in the edge. When the resistor was at the end, you were only using about halfish of those little teeth. But with it in the middle, it's going to resist when it first gets there in addition to when additional hits try to drag it off there.

So that's why I'm going to give you ban idea number 5, and you're going to thank me for it:

5) Ban painted discs on the Lord layer base if it continues to dominate the top 3 spots exclusively, which it might not do.

These are all the disks so far that I know can work with Lord’s burst prevention mechanism:

0 (painted or non-painted), outer(painted or non-painted) Vn, Rt, St (painted, not sure about non-painted), Ar, RT, Dr, Bl, 7 (painted, not sure about non-painted).  These are just the ones I quickly checked.  I am sure there are more.

yea you can't ban disc from a combo just because one person has it tight and one doesn't my ar doesn't stick there isn't a painted around anyway

To be clear I personally don’t think there is a need to ban anything at this time.

To be clear I personally don’t think there is a need to ban anything at this time.

oh whoops my bad

7 was tighter than 0, 00 and 10 on this, so that's why it saw use here. That Bey was not coming apart at all, it was tough to even put it together, haha.

Worth noting that all of those were painted Disks as well, which does make a difference here.

The green ChoZ Triple Booster 7! Surprise, that thing is suddenly useful again!

Alright. It's been ONE tournament with Lord. We shouldn't be so crazy to rush to the bans. More like we need some testing, lots of testing, and tournaments, as has been said.

That said, if you were to solve it with bans, you have several options:
1) Ban Bearing. People will flock to Xt+ which is about to become more readily available, this solves literally nothing.
2) Ban Lord. That's not going to be a popular idea, it's brand new, and people loooooove Spriggan.
3) Ban Balkesh. Wait, that wouldn't solve this issue.
Or... and this is going to be REALLY unpopular... but solve a balance issue/exploit people are reluctant to address...
4) Ban painted discs on Burst Resistor beys.

I know! Everyone just read that idea for the first time and they already hate it! You wish you could negative heart this post right now. But hear me out:
I bought a Gold 0 and a Gold Sting just for Judgement. It's total garbage how unburstable it is with those discs in place, even though I've seen it happen before. Yes, it's providing a needed boost to the attack meta which has been suffering greatly in recent years, but just because we haven't discussed it doesn't mean it isn't total unfair pay-to-win garbage. The idea that a blader has to go and buy a painted disc just to reduce bursting. Ghastly. But Judgement is the first decent attack layer I've seen in ages. I've seen people use it, AND WIN, during the first stage of a tournament.
And I own the green 7. I bought that Triple pack just for Bearing and Wolborg. The 7 was just a nice bonus, I tend to run it with Glaive on left spin.

But now that we have a burst resistor on a stamina/balance type with a painted stamina core disc? Now we have a SERIOUS problem. Especially if the resistor isn't in the edge. When the resistor was at the end, you were only using about halfish of those little teeth. But with it in the middle, it's going to resist when it first gets there in addition to when additional hits try to drag it off there.

So that's why I'm going to give you ban idea number 5, and you're going to thank me for it:

5) Ban painted discs on the Lord layer base if it continues to dominate the top 3 spots exclusively, which it might not do.

You're Welcome.

Xt+ is weaker than Br on Lord/Cho-Z Spriggan, so yes banning Bearing would help resolve the issue. Xt+ has less KO resist than Br and it opens up for Xt+ vs Xt+ opposite spin matchups (again, right spin Bearing doesn't exist to match left spin combos with it).

I think painted discs on Rubber Stopper layers is pretty dumb, so I wouldn't mind getting rid of that. Though, it's less of an issue than Bearing.

---

On the topic of triangles, squares etc; you also have to accept that not everything is going to be able to beat what you're up against, as regrettable as that is. I believe that's also something that Wombat's "Pick 3 Choose 1" proposal pretty much addresses; while it would increase preparation time before matches, it effectively provides the opportunity to see what 3 your opponent might use, and pick one from your 3 that'll have the best chances. It's something that people should go take a look at and weigh in on, as it's an interesting proposal.

We can see there's a very obvious triangle being forced by Bearing right now. Every team being forced to have Zwei on it to have a reliable chance at beating Bearing combos is NOT a sign of a healthy meta. Bearing is just too centralizing to the meta. If there's 8 layers in the meta (pP, oE, hS, aH, CzA, dH, Judgement, Zwei) outside of Bearing users, which make up another 3 layers (Balkesh B3, CzS, and Lord), and only 1 of the non-Br layers is able to bear Bearing reliably, that's a centralizing meta.

If Bearing was banned, then Lord and CzS would be forced to use other drivers which do have more weaknesses than Bearing, which means more of the current meta layers could beat then reliably. Those drivers would be Orbit Metal, Atomic, and Xtend+. Orbit Metal could be beaten by layers that frequently use drivers with better stamina than it (Orbit Metal is mostly and anti KO driver afterall, so Atomic/Xtend+ would beat it). Atomic has KO risk, especially on CzS which has burst stoppers, which means right spin attack (CzA, Judgement, possibly dH) would be able to beat it relibly, and can still be beaten by layers who are using Xtend+. Xtend+ is still easier to KO than Bearing, and could be beaten or tie with other Xt+ users. With Bearing, there is no Bearing vs Bearing opposite spin matchup, but there would be with Xtend+. Right spin beys with Bearing don't exist typically unless the format is in terrible shape by attack being dead, so it's very very unlikely Bearing vs Bearing opposite spin would happen.

And funny that you brought up Yugioh cause I play that game. Usually, not a lot changes with new meta decks or cards coming in unless it's things on the level of Nekroz, Zoodiac, or SPYRAL Double Helix. Given how I brought up centralizing the meta, I think Pokemon Showdown might be a better way to discuss this since things have been banned in their formats for being centralizing, though that still isn't a 1 to 1 comparison either. Bad pokemon have been used before because they counter broken mons (Quagsire being used to counter Aegislash), but we don't really see bad parts being used to counter broken ones in Beyblade Burst.

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Give us Assault' re-release, Iron', and Charge'. Give a non-limited re-release of Cho-Z Achilles.
Legend Spriggan on tall attack drivers for Burst Limited is fun.
Against layer powercreep in Burst Limited.

If you want, I'll try out a deck in Pixel 2 on the 25th that doesn't have Bearing or Xtend+, but can handle most of the meta combos. I'd obviously have to spam Xtend+ combos to get to the finals because those are the safest things to use, but I want to prove that Bearing and Xtend+ aren't such a big problem once you've worked your way up to the Finals.

The green ChoZ Triple Booster 7! Surprise, that thing is suddenly useful again!

Alright. It's been ONE tournament with Lord. We shouldn't be so crazy to rush to the bans. More like we need some testing, lots of testing, and tournaments, as has been said.

That said, if you were to solve it with bans, you have several options:
1) Ban Bearing. People will flock to Xt+ which is about to become more readily available, this solves literally nothing.
2) Ban Lord. That's not going to be a popular idea, it's brand new, and people loooooove Spriggan.
3) Ban Balkesh. Wait, that wouldn't solve this issue.
Or... and this is going to be REALLY unpopular... but solve a balance issue/exploit people are reluctant to address...
4) Ban painted discs on Burst Resistor beys.

I know! Everyone just read that idea for the first time and they already hate it! You wish you could negative heart this post right now. But hear me out:
I bought a Gold 0 and a Gold Sting just for Judgement. It's total garbage how unburstable it is with those discs in place, even though I've seen it happen before. Yes, it's providing a needed boost to the attack meta which has been suffering greatly in recent years, but just because we haven't discussed it doesn't mean it isn't total unfair pay-to-win garbage. The idea that a blader has to go and buy a painted disc just to reduce bursting. Ghastly. But Judgement is the first decent attack layer I've seen in ages. I've seen people use it, AND WIN, during the first stage of a tournament.
And I own the green 7. I bought that Triple pack just for Bearing and Wolborg. The 7 was just a nice bonus, I tend to run it with Glaive on left spin.

But now that we have a burst resistor on a stamina/balance type with a painted stamina core disc? Now we have a SERIOUS problem. Especially if the resistor isn't in the edge. When the resistor was at the end, you were only using about halfish of those little teeth. But with it in the middle, it's going to resist when it first gets there in addition to when additional hits try to drag it off there.

So that's why I'm going to give you ban idea number 5, and you're going to thank me for it:

5) Ban painted discs on the Lord layer base if it continues to dominate the top 3 spots exclusively, which it might not do.

You're Welcome.

Xt+ is weaker than Br on Lord/Cho-Z Spriggan, so yes banning Bearing would help resolve the issue. Xt+ has less KO resist than Br and it opens up for Xt+ vs Xt+ opposite spin matchups (again, right spin Bearing doesn't exist to match left spin combos with it).

I think painted discs on Rubber Stopper layers is pretty dumb, so I wouldn't mind getting rid of that. Though, it's less of an issue than Bearing.

---

On the topic of triangles, squares etc; you also have to accept that not everything is going to be able to beat what you're up against, as regrettable as that is. I believe that's also something that Wombat's "Pick 3 Choose 1" proposal pretty much addresses; while it would increase preparation time before matches, it effectively provides the opportunity to see what 3 your opponent might use, and pick one from your 3 that'll have the best chances. It's something that people should go take a look at and weigh in on, as it's an interesting proposal.

We can see there's a very obvious triangle being forced by Bearing right now. Every team being forced to have Zwei on it to have a reliable chance at beating Bearing combos is NOT a sign of a healthy meta. Bearing is just too centralizing to the meta. If there's 8 layers in the meta (pP, oE, hS, aH, CzA, dH, Judgement, Zwei) outside of Bearing users, which make up another 3 layers (Balkesh B3, CzS, and Lord), and only 1 of the non-Br layers is able to bear Bearing reliably, that's a centralizing meta.

If Bearing was banned, then Lord and CzS would be forced to use other drivers which do have more weaknesses than Bearing, which means more of the current meta layers could beat then reliably. Those drivers would be Orbit Metal, Atomic, and Xtend+. Orbit Metal could be beaten by layers that frequently use drivers with better stamina than it (Orbit Metal is mostly and anti KO driver afterall, so Atomic/Xtend+ would beat it). Atomic has KO risk, especially on CzS which has burst stoppers, which means right spin attack (CzA, Judgement, possibly dH) would be able to beat it relibly, and can still be beaten by layers who are using Xtend+. Xtend+ is still easier to KO than Bearing, and could be beaten or tie with other Xt+ users. With Bearing, there is no Bearing vs Bearing opposite spin matchup, but there would be with Xtend+. Right spin beys with Bearing don't exist typically unless the format is in terrible shape by attack being dead, so it's very very unlikely Bearing vs Bearing opposite spin would happen.

And funny that you brought up Yugioh cause I play that game. Usually, not a lot changes with new meta decks or cards coming in unless it's things on the level of Nekroz, Zoodiac, or SPYRAL Double Helix. Given how I brought up centralizing the meta, I think Pokemon Showdown might be a better way to discuss this since things have been banned in their formats for being centralizing, though that still isn't a 1 to 1 comparison either. Bad pokemon have been used before because they counter broken mons (Quagsire being used to counter Aegislash), but we don't really see bad parts being used to counter broken ones in Beyblade Burst.

I will have to disagree on banning bearing, in the first stages everybody is using xtend+ because it's the safest if they get into a same spin match stamina opposite weak launch attack mode and barely anybody uses atomic in this stage because of atomic's opposite spin lad is doo-doo and getting into an opposite spin match is 50%/50% so that's not a threat when you get to decks bearing is easily counter by the good old atomic in same spin or an attack from its low friction and if your that paranoid use atomic right orbit metal left and no orbit metal is not an anti ko driver its metal causes low friction which causes more ko so if your want anti ko look for regular orbit t

Ravinchen your mention of Orbit Metal brings me to a point. Just like how the normal, Dash, and/or SlingShock versions of a part are considered to be one part and can't be repeated, the same rule has to apply to Orbit Metal, but I'm pretty sure that rule is already being put into the rules. For some reason, this rule is not taken into account in some countries, because some competitive Asian BeyTubers, such as Universe Coffee, use Xtreme and Xtreme' in the same Deck sometimes.

Ravinchen your mention of Orbit Metal brings me to a point. Just like how the normal, Dash, and/or SlingShock versions of a part are considered to be one part and can't be repeated, the same rule has to apply to Orbit Metal, but I'm pretty sure that rule is already being put into the rules. For some reason, this rule is not taken into account in some countries, because some competitive Asian BeyTubers, such as Universe Coffee, use Xtreme and Xtreme' in the same Deck sometimes.

we will find out at the end of the month with the rule update thing every month

Ravinchen your mention of Orbit Metal brings me to a point. Just like how the normal, Dash, and/or SlingShock versions of a part are considered to be one part and can't be repeated, the same rule has to apply to Orbit Metal, but I'm pretty sure that rule is already being put into the rules. For some reason, this rule is not taken into account in some countries, because some competitive Asian BeyTubers, such as Universe Coffee, use Xtreme and Xtreme' in the same Deck sometimes.

Yeah because the Wbba 3 on 3 format allows players to use the dash and normal counter parts in their deck, such as choosing the spin on SR and Cz-s after seeing what the other person is using.

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Hey all, professional noob blader here. I enjoyed participating in the fighting of exploding spinning tops while pretending I know how inertia works. I will generally partake in gatherings of people with a similar interest of these rotating objects around the Greater Toronto Area (GTA). My favourite combos are essentially anything purple, gold, and sometimes a nice purl white. I don’t know how to make a cool banner so who those who actually know how this site works please feel free to message me about how I should know how to at this point lol.  

If you want, I'll try out a deck in Pixel 2 on the 25th that doesn't have Bearing or Xtend+, but can handle most of the meta combos. I'd obviously have to spam Xtend+ combos to get to the finals because those are the safest things to use, but I want to prove that Bearing and Xtend+ aren't such a big problem once you've worked your way up to the Finals.

I would add that you can't use Zwei in that then. If Bearing isn't an issue, then certainly you shouldn't need to bring the required Bearing counter. My argument wasn't just that Bearing is OP, but that it warps the meta. Currently, every meta combo can be beaten by about 3 other layers and their usual combo. Bearing combos only have 1 reliable counter, which is the issue.

Xt+ is weaker than Br on Lord/Cho-Z Spriggan, so yes banning Bearing would help resolve the issue. Xt+ has less KO resist than Br and it opens up for Xt+ vs Xt+ opposite spin matchups (again, right spin Bearing doesn't exist to match left spin combos with it).

I think painted discs on Rubber Stopper layers is pretty dumb, so I wouldn't mind getting rid of that. Though, it's less of an issue than Bearing.

---

We can see there's a very obvious triangle being forced by Bearing right now. Every team being forced to have Zwei on it to have a reliable chance at beating Bearing combos is NOT a sign of a healthy meta. Bearing is just too centralizing to the meta. If there's 8 layers in the meta (pP, oE, hS, aH, CzA, dH, Judgement, Zwei) outside of Bearing users, which make up another 3 layers (Balkesh B3, CzS, and Lord), and only 1 of the non-Br layers is able to bear Bearing reliably, that's a centralizing meta.

If Bearing was banned, then Lord and CzS would be forced to use other drivers which do have more weaknesses than Bearing, which means more of the current meta layers could beat then reliably. Those drivers would be Orbit Metal, Atomic, and Xtend+. Orbit Metal could be beaten by layers that frequently use drivers with better stamina than it (Orbit Metal is mostly and anti KO driver afterall, so Atomic/Xtend+ would beat it). Atomic has KO risk, especially on CzS which has burst stoppers, which means right spin attack (CzA, Judgement, possibly dH) would be able to beat it relibly, and can still be beaten by layers who are using Xtend+. Xtend+ is still easier to KO than Bearing, and could be beaten or tie with other Xt+ users. With Bearing, there is no Bearing vs Bearing opposite spin matchup, but there would be with Xtend+. Right spin beys with Bearing don't exist typically unless the format is in terrible shape by attack being dead, so it's very very unlikely Bearing vs Bearing opposite spin would happen.

I will have to disagree on banning bearing, in the first stages everybody is using xtend+ because it's the safest if they get into a same spin match stamina opposite weak launch attack mode and barely anybody uses atomic in this stage because of atomic's opposite spin lad is doo-doo and getting into an opposite spin match is 50%/50% so that's not a threat when you get to decks bearing is easily counter by the good old atomic in same spin or an attack from its low friction and if your that paranoid use atomic right orbit metal left and no orbit metal is not an anti ko driver its metal causes low friction which causes more ko so if your want anti ko look for regular orbit t

That doesn't really respond to the fact that only 1 layer can reliably counter Bearing combos and the fact that Lord and Cho-Z Spriggan would have a larger variety of options with Bearing banned. Plus, if Atomic's opposite spin LAD is bad, why has Hell Salamander.something.Atomic been popular for over a year now? Orbit Metal and Orbit both have free rotating ball tips, so that already reduces KO resist. Om has more KO resist because it's heavier.

Ravinchen your mention of Orbit Metal brings me to a point. Just like how the normal, Dash, and/or SlingShock versions of a part are considered to be one part and can't be repeated, the same rule has to apply to Orbit Metal, but I'm pretty sure that rule is already being put into the rules. For some reason, this rule is not taken into account in some countries, because some competitive Asian BeyTubers, such as Universe Coffee, use Xtreme and Xtreme' in the same Deck sometimes.

Fairly certain that Orbit Metal is considered a completely different driver than Orbit. It probably wouldn't change much though since Om outclasses O.

---

Give us Assault' re-release, Iron', and Charge'. Give a non-limited re-release of Cho-Z Achilles.
Legend Spriggan on tall attack drivers for Burst Limited is fun.
Against layer powercreep in Burst Limited.

If you want, I'll try out a deck in Pixel 2 on the 25th that doesn't have Bearing or Xtend+, but can handle most of the meta combos. I'd obviously have to spam Xtend+ combos to get to the finals because those are the safest things to use, but I want to prove that Bearing and Xtend+ aren't such a big problem once you've worked your way up to the Finals.

I would add that you can't use Zwei in that then. If Bearing isn't an issue, then certainly you shouldn't need to bring the required Bearing counter. My argument wasn't just that Bearing is OP, but that it warps the meta. Currently, every meta combo can be beaten by about 3 other layers and their usual combo. Bearing combos only have 1 reliable counter, which is the issue.

I will have to disagree on banning bearing, in the first stages everybody is using xtend+ because it's the safest if they get into a same spin match stamina opposite weak launch attack mode and barely anybody uses atomic in this stage because of atomic's opposite spin lad is doo-doo and getting into an opposite spin match is 50%/50% so that's not a threat when you get to decks bearing is easily counter by the good old atomic in same spin or an attack from its low friction and if your that paranoid use atomic right orbit metal left and no orbit metal is not an anti ko driver its metal causes low friction which causes more ko so if your want anti ko look for regular orbit t

That doesn't really respond to the fact that only 1 layer can reliably counter Bearing combos and the fact that Lord and Cho-Z Spriggan would have a larger variety of options with Bearing banned. Plus, if Atomic's opposite spin LAD is bad, why has Hell Salamander.something.Atomic been popular for over a year now? Orbit Metal and Orbit both have free rotating ball tips, so that already reduces KO resist. Om has more KO resist because it's heavier.

Ravinchen your mention of Orbit Metal brings me to a point. Just like how the normal, Dash, and/or SlingShock versions of a part are considered to be one part and can't be repeated, the same rule has to apply to Orbit Metal, but I'm pretty sure that rule is already being put into the rules. For some reason, this rule is not taken into account in some countries, because some competitive Asian BeyTubers, such as Universe Coffee, use Xtreme and Xtreme' in the same Deck sometimes.

Fairly certain that Orbit Metal is considered a completely different driver than Orbit. It probably wouldn't change much though since Om outclasses O.

when did only 1 layer can counter bearing any round decent weighted same spin bey can with orbit metal or atomic with 7/0/00 proof cross /glaive sting around can counter it left to left, right to right I mean so your brain can understand
w opposite spin meaning left vs right or right vs left I don't mean atomic in left is bad it's bad in left when it faces right in left vs left is really good
3 have you heard of something called  FRICTION just because 2 grams it won't change the ko resistance that's the weight of gen basically nothing maybe 1 1/100 in theory  verse facts metal cutting the friction more than half will increase ko it by at least 1 1/2

ps sorry for getting heated

I would add that you can't use Zwei in that then. If Bearing isn't an issue, then certainly you shouldn't need to bring the required Bearing counter. My argument wasn't just that Bearing is OP, but that it warps the meta. Currently, every meta combo can be beaten by about 3 other layers and their usual combo. Bearing combos only have 1 reliable counter....

I think Zwei is an excellent layer in general.  Its upper attack can be effective against both spin directions. It is not just counter to Bearing in left spin.

Pretty scary win rate against LJ.Vn.Br, even in my hands (Vn May be worse than 7/0/00W in this scenario scenario). 
https://youtu.be/iLk4pBaMBAs

Not bad against Left spin At. 
https://youtu.be/DN2-fMkzyE4

Not too good against this right spin wall
https://youtu.be/gZXys_J45DI

Reasonable win rate against pP.00C.Xt+ even in my hands 
https://youtu.be/e1t3EVhyFvQ

when did only 1 layer can counter bearing any round decent weighted same spin bey can with orbit metal or atomic with 7/0/00 proof cross /glaive sting around can counter it left to left, right to right I mean so your brain can understand
w opposite spin meaning left vs right or right vs left I don't mean atomic in left is bad it's bad in left when it faces right in left vs left is really good
3 have you heard of something called  FRICTION just because 2 grams it won't change the ko resistance that's the weight of gen basically nothing maybe 1 1/100 in theory  verse facts metal cutting the friction more than half will increase ko it by at least 1 1/2

ps sorry for getting heated

To my knowledge, CzS.00W.Br beats hS.St.At. I don't know about hS.00C.Xt+ or hS.00C.Ds', though Ds' on hS has fallen out of favor.

Atomic is good in opposite spin matchups. That's why hS on has been meta for a year.

Testing would be needed to see the difference between Orbit and Orbit Metal for KO resist.

I would add that you can't use Zwei in that then. If Bearing isn't an issue, then certainly you shouldn't need to bring the required Bearing counter. My argument wasn't just that Bearing is OP, but that it warps the meta. Currently, every meta combo can be beaten by about 3 other layers and their usual combo. Bearing combos only have 1 reliable counter...

I think Zwei is an excellent layer in general.  Its upper attack can be effective against both spin directions. It is not just counter to Bearing in left spin.

Pretty scary win rate against LJ.Vn.Br, even in my hands (Vn May be worse than 7/0/00W in this scenario scenario). 
https://youtu.be/iLk4pBaMBAs

Not bad against Left spin At. 
https://youtu.be/DN2-fMkzyE4

Not too good against this right spin wall
https://youtu.be/gZXys_J45DI

Reasonable win rate against pP.00C.Xt+ even in my hands 
https://youtu.be/e1t3EVhyFvQ

I think Zwei is a fantastic layer too. It's like Nightmare Longinus, which is why I'm worried about Burst Limited with disk weight. It's the problem that Zwei has to be in every deck to deal with Bearing combos. Though, why are you using Reach over Bump?

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Give us Assault' re-release, Iron', and Charge'. Give a non-limited re-release of Cho-Z Achilles.
Legend Spriggan on tall attack drivers for Burst Limited is fun.
Against layer powercreep in Burst Limited.

when did only 1 layer can counter bearing any round decent weighted same spin bey can with orbit metal or atomic with 7/0/00 proof cross /glaive sting around can counter it left to left, right to right I mean so your brain can understand
w opposite spin meaning left vs right or right vs left I don't mean atomic in left is bad it's bad in left when it faces right in left vs left is really good
3 have you heard of something called  FRICTION just because 2 grams it won't change the ko resistance that's the weight of gen basically nothing maybe 1 1/100 in theory  verse facts metal cutting the friction more than half will increase ko it by at least 1 1/2

ps sorry for getting heated

To my knowledge, CzS.00W.Br beats hS.St.At. I don't know about hS.00C.Xt+ or hS.00C.Ds', though Ds' on hS has fallen out of favor.

Atomic is good in opposite spin matchups. That's why hS on has been meta for a year.

Testing would be needed to see the difference between Orbit and Orbit Metal for KO resist.

I think Zwei is an excellent layer in general.  Its upper attack can be effective against both spin directions. It is not just counter to Bearing in left spin.

Pretty scary win rate against LJ.Vn.Br, even in my hands (Vn May be worse than 7/0/00W in this scenario scenario). 
https://youtu.be/iLk4pBaMBAs

Not bad against Left spin At. 
https://youtu.be/DN2-fMkzyE4

Not too good against this right spin wall
https://youtu.be/gZXys_J45DI

Reasonable win rate against pP.00C.Xt+ even in my hands 
https://youtu.be/e1t3EVhyFvQ

I think Zwei is a fantastic layer too. It's like Nightmare Longinus, which is why I'm worried about Burst Limited with disk weight. It's the problem that Zwei has to be in every deck to deal with Bearing combos. Though, why are you using Reach over Bump?

facepalm hS is for LEFT VS LEFT NOT LEFT VS RIGHT 
hell salamander sting atomic vs right lord spriggan 00wall bearing really light launch that's worse than my handspin for both
hS st at 0%
lS 00wall br 100% 
ps only outspins  counted

when did only 1 layer can counter bearing any round decent weighted same spin bey can with orbit metal or atomic with 7/0/00 proof cross /glaive sting around can counter it left to left, right to right I mean so your brain can understand
w opposite spin meaning left vs right or right vs left I don't mean atomic in left is bad it's bad in left when it faces right in left vs left is really good
3 have you heard of something called  FRICTION just because 2 grams it won't change the ko resistance that's the weight of gen basically nothing maybe 1 1/100 in theory  verse facts metal cutting the friction more than half will increase ko it by at least 1 1/2

ps sorry for getting heated

To my knowledge, CzS.00W.Br beats hS.St.At. I don't know about hS.00C.Xt+ or hS.00C.Ds', though Ds' on hS has fallen out of favor.

Atomic is good in opposite spin matchups. That's why hS on has been meta for a year.

Testing would be needed to see the difference between Orbit and Orbit Metal for KO resist.

I think Zwei is an excellent layer in general.  Its upper attack can be effective against both spin directions. It is not just counter to Bearing in left spin.

Pretty scary win rate against LJ.Vn.Br, even in my hands (Vn May be worse than 7/0/00W in this scenario scenario). 
https://youtu.be/iLk4pBaMBAs

Not bad against Left spin At. 
https://youtu.be/DN2-fMkzyE4

Not too good against this right spin wall
https://youtu.be/gZXys_J45DI

Reasonable win rate against pP.00C.Xt+ even in my hands 
https://youtu.be/e1t3EVhyFvQ

I think Zwei is a fantastic layer too. It's like Nightmare Longinus, which is why I'm worried about Burst Limited with disk weight. It's the problem that Zwei has to be in every deck to deal with Bearing combos. Though, why are you using Reach over Bump?

Reach lines up better with zwei than bump.
Reach scrapes a bit less than Bump on Jl’.
Reach seems to help left spin beys with spin velocity
All of the above are just my opinion.  At the very least it works for me. 

My point is, if Zwei is a good layer and more than a bearing killer, then is it fair to ask someone not to use it?  (In that no Bearing experiment)

Further, if the suppose bearing killer is actually more than a bearing killer, then are people forced to play Zwei because of Bearing?

AirKingNeo challenge accepted. I wasn't planning to use Zwei or bL to counter Bearing. The Deck seems a bit odd, but it counters a lot of things. What Bearing combo do you suggest practicing against?

AirKingNeo challenge accepted. I wasn't planning to use Zwei or bL to counter Bearing. The Deck seems a bit odd, but it counters a lot of things. What Bearing combo do you suggest practicing against?

dread diabolos/lord spriggan/ hell salamander/ choz spriggan 00wall/vanguard bearing

AirKingNeo challenge accepted. I wasn't planning to use Zwei or bL to counter Bearing. The Deck seems a bit odd, but it counters a lot of things. What Bearing combo do you suggest practicing against?

dread diabolos/lord spriggan/ hell salamander/ choz spriggan 00wall/vanguard bearing

I guess I'll have to test my overall Left-Spin counter against Cho-Z Spriggan Sting Bearing and Lord Longinus 0 Cross Bearing, since it would be a same-spin matchup.

I find a fresh Judgment Layer with Orbit also has a decent chance of knocking ChoZ Spriggan 00W Bearing out. However, if ChoZ Spriggan gets saved by the wall, Judgment wont be able to outspin it unlike Zwei.

Sherd it in the Dish! - 8/18/19
Brampton, ON, Canada - Burst Format

1st: WonderMax
Choz-Z Spriggan Ratchet Bearing (Qualifiers)
Dread Bahamut Sting Xtend+ Gen (Qualifiers)
Dread Bahamut 00 Bump Atomic Gen (Deck format finals)
Judgment Diabolos 0 Cross Xtend+ (Deck format finals)
Lord Spriggan Sting Bearing (Deck format finals)

2nd: henwooja1
Zwei Bahamut Blitz Orbit Metal (Qualifiers)  
Balkesh B3 00 Wall Bearing (Qualifiers)
Zwei Bahamut Blitz Octa (Qualifiers and Deck format finals) 
Archer Hercules 10 Star Xtend Plus (Deck format finals)

3rd: LostSoul
??? Sorry, I missed getting his combos and he is not active online.

4th: flamethrowerJWA

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If you need to contact me regarding an event, phoning is best. If you are running late for a tournament, call me. Ask for my phone number via PM or in person at any tournament  ^_^

Looking for
NIB 1st Gen Hasbro Plastics not in list below

Plastic Bey Collection Hasbro

Spoiler (Click to View)

New In Box NFS/NFT
x2 Brand new Clear Hasbro Stadium 2001
Dragoon S
Dragoon S (green stickers) Rare? PM me if you know
Starter Dragoon
Dranzer S
Black Dranzer
Master Dranzer
Ultimate Frostic Dranzer
Draciel S
Master Draciel
Metal Draciel
Dragoon Fighter
Guardian Driger
Gekiryu-Oh
Manta Diver
Orca Diver
Spark Knight x2
HMS Hopper Attacker
HMS Phantom Fox MS
HMS Advance Avenger
EG Zeus
EG Driger G
BBA CS Dranzer V2
more still missing in storage = (

Loose
Black Dranzer
Seaborg x3
Master Draciel x3
EG Dragoon GT
lots more still missing in storage = (

Spring Launcher Silver
Spring Launcher Red x3
Custom Grip Dranzer
Custom Grip Dragoon

Fav Plastic - Spark Knight (I had 4, attack ring kept breaking)
Fav Limited - Burn Cancer 230BWD & Duo Cancer 160WD (now banned)
Fav Standard - cookie-cutter wyvang :( & Duo Aquario SP230EWD :)
Fav Burst - Odin Heavy Revolve (laugh all you want)
Fav Animes - One Piece, Dot Hack (all), Sword Art Online, Speed Grapher
Fav RPG/Adventure/Racer - Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete/Zelda OOT/Hydro Thunder

Hey so I’m thinking of revising my deck before an upcoming tournament that I’m going to, here’s what I’ve been using

Zwei Longinus 00Bump Metal Orbit Metsu
Judgement Diabolos 0Glaive Xtreme’
Lord Spriggan Outer Atomic

Any suggestions or changes to make?

If Lord Spriggan is Right Spin, use the Valkyrie Chip instead. If you're going for a Left Spin only Deck, you'll probably be best off using the Longinus Chip on Lord and using Bahamut on Zwei. Also, try Ωcta on Judgement Diabolos and Xtreme' on Zwei Bahamut. Maybe also the Sting Disk on the Lord combo, since Ωuter doesn't prevent the Lord Base from hitting the ground.

Sherd it in the Dish! - 8/18/19
Brampton, ON, Canada - Burst Format

1st: WonderMax
Choz-Z Spriggan Ratchet Bearing (Qualifiers)
Dread Bahamut Sting Xtend+ Gen (Qualifiers)
Dread Bahamut 00 Bump Atomic Gen (Deck format finals)
Judgment Diabolos 0 Cross Xtend+ (Deck format finals)
Lord Spriggan Sting Bearing (Deck format finals)

2nd: henwooja1
Zwei Bahamut Blitz Orbit Metal (Qualifiers)  
Balkesh B3 00 Wall Bearing (Qualifiers)
Zwei Bahamut Blitz Octa (Qualifiers and Deck format finals) 
Archer Hurculies 10 Star Xtend Plus (Deck format finals)

3rd: LostSoul
??? Sorry, I missed getting his conbos and he is not active online.

4th: flamethrowerJWA

I know LostSoul irl so I can ask him what he used if you want!

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