I think SSJ was referring to the RF variant.
Hell BD145CS isn't exactly the best combination so..

I admire you saying that, everyone seems to find it as a prestigious god-like balance type?

It does what I mentioned to Basalt 230CS and any non D variant-based combos. Any D variant based combos do just get knocked out however.

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yeah, i was talking about the RF.

As long as you're good with attacks types, MF-H Gravity BD145RF is my favourite combo. No it doesnt have the best attack, but its so much more useful against attack than any other attack type i've used.

sorry for off topic

TOPIC: D

To pop in another D weakness, it can not be used with BD145 in normal mode at all due to scraping. CS gains so many advantages in the current metagame. BD145D would be a lovely matchup, however CS is one of the closest (EDS is arguably) tall tips that will match up with BD145 and work effectively without early scraping.

ED: G'night, let's keep on topic.

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I was bored so I did tests!
MF Basalt Kerbecs 230D VS MF LLD BD145RF:
BK:9
LLD:11

MF Basalt Kerbecs 230D VS LDD CH120(145)XF:
BK:10
LDD:10

MF Basalt Kerbecs GB145D VS LDD CH120XF:
BK:15
LDD:5

HMMMMM that last combo did relatively well!

---

thanks to izuma inzori for the Incredible Sig! My youtube

I was bored so I did tests!
MF Basalt Kerbecs 230D VS MF LLD BD145RF:
BK:9
LLD:11

Standard Procedures:
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230D vs MF-H LLD BD145RF

BK: 3 (3 OS)
LLD: 17 (13 KO 4 OS)

BK win percentage: 15%

---

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I was bored so I did tests!
MF Basalt Kerbecs 230D VS MF LLD BD145RF:
BK:9
LLD:11

Standard Procedures:
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230D vs MF-H LLD BD145RF

BK: 3 (3 OS)
LLD: 17 (13 KO 4 OS)

BK win percentage: 15%

haha I think mine did bad cause my RF si out of the box there usually pretty bad and plastiky like that....
I did some with a prime RF...
MF Basalt Kerbecs 230D vs MF LLD BD145RF
LLD:18(All KO's
BK:2(1 OS, 1 KO)

LOL sorry it was the RF I know its weird but yeah.....that was it

---

thanks to izuma inzori for the Incredible Sig! My youtube

Well, I have a some stuff to say...

H&R, first of all 230 stamina vs attack always=complete domination.

And Control_
You can argue with me all you want but I think Vari Ares is the best straight attacker, that's why I chose it.
For as LLD and Gravity are not just straight out power, the have much better spin steal and other abilities.
Also, I'd chose Gravity over LDD for attack because of its balance. The Lightning wheel(In fact, all L Drago series wheels) is very unbalanced, Gravity will last longer in the end of the battle..
If you want me to I can do some Gravity testing, although I don't have CH120(Don't Ask)...

As for the BD145 haters...
BD145 may not be the best track for attack purposes, but I would say 80% of the time brings out the best in attack wheels.(When on RF/R2F/LRF)

---

:D for the committee

I was bored so I did tests!
MF Basalt Kerbecs 230D VS MF LLD BD145RF:
BK:9
LLD:11

Standard Procedures:
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230D vs MF-H LLD BD145RF

BK: 3 (3 OS)
LLD: 17 (13 KO 4 OS)

BK win percentage: 15%

haha I think mine did bad cause my RF si out of the box there usually pretty bad and plastiky like that....
I did some with a prime RF...
MF Basalt Kerbecs 230D vs MF LLD BD145RF
LLD:18(All KO's
BK:2(1 OS, 1 KO)

LOL sorry it was the RF I know its weird but yeah.....that was it

My tests was with an out of the box RF too yet my results were completely different.

othellog
What the hell are you talking about? You were trying to persuade me that "you know" CS is better in defence situations yet all you tests against is the most powerful collision creator of all. Where the heck are the Hell BD145D v non-aggro beys? Your tests definitely go against your argument.

H&R, first of all 230 stamina vs attack always=complete domination.

Err no. Only a few attack beys, mostly with BD145 (it must be said) can take down Basalt 230, hence the reason why LLDBD14LRF was such a big deal and not another combo.

---

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Well, I have a some stuff to say...

H&R, first of all 230 stamina vs attack always=complete domination.

And Control_
You can argue with me all you want but I think Vari Ares is the best straight attacker, that's why I chose it.
For as LLD and Gravity are not just straight out power, the have much better spin steal and other abilities.
Also, I'd chose Gravity over LDD for attack because of its balance. The Lightning wheel(In fact, all L Drago series wheels) is very unbalanced, Gravity will last longer in the end of the battle..
If you want me to I can do some Gravity testing, although I don't have CH120(Don't Ask)...

As for the BD145 haters...
BD145 may not be the best track for attack purposes, but I would say 80% of the time brings out the best in attack wheels.(When on RF/R2F/LRF)

you think I don't know that!
I used 230 because D does well on 230. I had a good reason..
I did these:
MF Basalt Kerbecs 85D VS MF LLD BD145RF:
LLD:16(14 KO's, 2 OS's)
BK:4 (all OS's)

---

thanks to izuma inzori for the Incredible Sig! My youtube

I was bored so I did tests!
MF Basalt Kerbecs 230D VS MF LLD BD145RF:
BK:9
LLD:11

Standard Procedures:
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230D vs MF-H LLD BD145RF

BK: 3 (3 OS)
LLD: 17 (13 KO 4 OS)

BK win percentage: 15%

haha I think mine did bad cause my RF si out of the box there usually pretty bad and plastiky like that....
I did some with a prime RF...
MF Basalt Kerbecs 230D vs MF LLD BD145RF
LLD:18(All KO's
BK:2(1 OS, 1 KO)

LOL sorry it was the RF I know its weird but yeah.....that was it

My tests was with an out of the box RF too yet my results were completely different.

othellog
What the hell are you talking about? You were trying to persuade me that "you know" CS is better in defence situations yet all you tests against is the most powerful collision creator of all. Where the heck are the Hell BD145D v non-aggro beys? Your tests definitely go against your argument.

H&R, first of all 230 stamina vs attack always=complete domination.

Err no. Only a few attack beys, mostly with BD145 (it must be said) can take down Basalt 230, hence the reason why LLDBD14LRF was such a big deal and not another combo.

Ha,ha
Dude, the most powerful attack bey shows how much better D is on Basalt 90 compared to CS. It might not have as much defense power, but D's stamina keeps it alive.
carp, do you guys not understand that since D has more stamina it has a WAY better chance of surviving against Vari Ares.(Losing out spin wise.) This thread is about defense, but I'm just saying better stamina on a low combo is better.

---

:D for the committee

Ha,ha
Dude, the most powerful attack bey shows how much better D is on Basalt 90 compared to CS. It might not have as much defense power, but D's stamina keeps it alive.

That doesn't make sense. If that's how you're going to think about everything, there might as well not be a defence, infact defence and stamina should then be merged if your going to test the stamina capabilities through "outlasting attack". You need to think over this, it's not right and you've just changed your thread to: "How much better CS is compared to D".

EDIT:
You don't understand, CS when in the stadium, can OS just fine, it doesn't need any more stamina. What it does have is extra grip, hence why even your results show CS>D when it really shouldn't be.

D isn't doing well in these results compared to CS, does this thread really need to exist if:

This thread is about defense

A new thread needs to be made to bring out what capabilities D has, and has not.

This thread shows what D has not.

---

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Member of The Elite Five | Visit my MFB Store (UK only)

In the end I'm not trying to start a debate.

---

:D for the committee

This is not a debate, this is a statement.

---

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Member of The Elite Five | Visit my MFB Store (UK only)

LOL Control just handled you.
I think you should probably restrict the whole Attack+BD145>Basalt 230 to only left spin wheels except for VariAres, which is honestly the first wheel I've seen capable of doing so in right spin. (directed at Control_'s earlier post.)

Gravity in no way should ever be chosen over Lightning LDrago.

lol@calling me a BD145 'hater'.

The entire thread seemed like a 'D>CS for everything' oriented topic. :V

---

shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

It has bringing out the best in D. You not taking in the info right, lets just leave at this if you want to keep hating on my thread. Just stop at that, people have making it look that I'm making CS look better. Who the carp said CS was better than D, look at my original tests.

---

LOL Control just handled you.
I think you should probably restrict the whole Attack+BD145>Basalt 230 to only left spin wheels except for VariAres, which is honestly the first wheel I've seen capable of doing so in right spin. (directed at Control_'s earlier post.)

Gravity in no way should ever be chosen over Lightning LDrago.

lol@calling me a BD145 'hater'.

The entire thread seemed like a 'D>CS for everything' oriented topic. :V

lol, I have to give him that...

---

:D for the committee

Dan Yeh now that I think about it, is left spin + VariAres haha.

othellog
It's weird since your original tests are completely opposite to mine. Looking at the results on page three, your claim "VariAres best attack w/e" is walled too.

Sorry... Not VS CS itself, i mean against atk CS got demolished but D stayed quite well...
Tests! Standard method
Bassalt 90D VS gravity perseus 90RF
12 wins (7OS 5KO) 8 wins ( 8 KO)
Bassalt 90CS VS gravity perseus 90RF
17 wins (10 OS 7KO) 3 wins (3 KO)
All draws redone.
The koes are when gravity is preparing, then CS attacks G.per

CS>D too.

--
Results from othellog:

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS: 5
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 10
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS win percentage: 33%
--
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145D vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145D: 10
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 5
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145D win percentage: 66%

Anyone with eyes know that is wrong.

---

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Member of The Elite Five | Visit my MFB Store (UK only)

Dan Yeh now that I think about it, is left spin + VariAres haha.

othellog
It's weird since your original tests are completely opposite to mine. Looking at the results on page three, your claim "VariAres best attack w/e" is walled too.

Sorry... Not VS CS itself, i mean against atk CS got demolished but D stayed quite well...
Tests! Standard method
Bassalt 90D VS gravity perseus 90RF
12 wins (7OS 5KO) 8 wins ( 8 KO)
Bassalt 90CS VS gravity perseus 90RF
17 wins (10 OS 7KO) 3 wins (3 KO)
All draws redone.
The koes are when gravity is preparing, then CS attacks G.per

CS>D too.

--
Results from othellog:

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS: 5
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 10
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS win percentage: 33%
--
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145D vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145D: 10
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 5
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145D win percentage: 66%

Anyone with eyes know that is wrong.

Wow, BS..
I really should shut this thread down. I don't believe this...
Oh well, everyone will believe your tests for some dumb carp reason, lol, because I'm not respected in the wbo community. Man, this is surprising.

---

:D for the committee

Come on, self-pity? That excuse doesn't go very far for me, if you have correct information, respect is as usual, bottomless.

If you want tests, they will be up soon, but just look at the people who have spent time posting results, they go against yours.

---

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Member of The Elite Five | Visit my MFB Store (UK only)

Come on, self-pity? That excuse doesn't go very far for me, if you have correct information, respect is as usual, bottomless.

If you want tests, they will be up soon, but just look at the people who have spent time posting results, they go against yours.

Keep going with this man....

---

I really don't give a damn anymore.

---

Maybe I should just stick to tourneys...

---

:D for the committee

lol. really?
I said from the beginning the results are odd. (not bashing, just post a vid bro)
Control_, I actually do think Vari is 'the' best attack wheel we have now. (Simply because of the dual spin, so it is able to negate weak launching.) It's only problem is its inconsistency with OHKO's lol.

Oh yeah, BD145 attack vs. LTD/SC is dumb unless you put Vari in right-spin, otherwise its a matter of height and not actual defense qualities.

---

shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

lol. really?
I said from the beginning the results are odd. (not bashing, just post a vid bro)
Control_, I actually do think Vari is 'the' best attack wheel we have now. (Simply because of the dual spin, so it is able to negate weak launching.) It's only problem is its inconsistency with OHKO's lol.

VariAres definitely has to be. I'm using it wherever I stand, if RS is up, just switch to left spin to OS.

However to prove the oddness of his results, something he claims to be much better than LLD, is getting much worse results.

Member posted LLD doing well against D, he shows VariAres kind of sucking against D.

The "best" attack wheel must be getting better results.

---

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Member of The Elite Five | Visit my MFB Store (UK only)

Well the entire circumstances are different between two people, only comparative tests of what you brought up from the same user would be valid. I explained that so awkwardly, do you understand what I am getting at? lol

---

shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

lol. really?
I said from the beginning the results are odd. (not bashing, just post a vid bro)
Control_, I actually do think Vari is 'the' best attack wheel we have now. (Simply because of the dual spin, so it is able to negate weak launching.) It's only problem is its inconsistency with OHKO's lol.

VariAres definitely has to be. I'm using it wherever I stand, if RS is up, just switch to left spin to OS.

However to prove the oddness of his results, something he claims to be much better than LLD, is getting much worse results.

Member posted LLD doing well against D, he shows VariAres kind of sucking against D.

The "best" attack wheel must be getting better results.

That's against one customization(Basalt___D), you can't base you statement off that.....
Lol,
Those test only prove the fact that LLD does better against most D combos than Vari Ares.

If you think Vari Ares is worse than LLD than you conduct tests to prove it..

---

Well the entire circumstances are different between two people, only comparative tests of what you brought up from the same user would be valid. I explained that so awkwardly, do you understand what I am getting at? lol

Ya, that makes sense.
Now that I think of it, Control_'s and my GB145 tests might vary, but if he tests basalt 90D I bet they will be the same.

---

:D for the committee

lol. really?
I said from the beginning the results are odd. (not bashing, just post a vid bro)
Control_, I actually do think Vari is 'the' best attack wheel we have now. (Simply because of the dual spin, so it is able to negate weak launching.) It's only problem is its inconsistency with OHKO's lol.

VariAres definitely has to be. I'm using it wherever I stand, if RS is up, just switch to left spin to OS.

However to prove the oddness of his results, something he claims to be much better than LLD, is getting much worse results.

Member posted LLD doing well against D, he shows VariAres kind of sucking against D.

The "best" attack wheel must be getting better results.

That's against one customization(Basalt___D), you can't base you statement off that.....
Lol,

Those test only prove the fact that LLD does better against most D combos than Vari Ares.

If you think Vari Ares is worse than LLD than you conduct tests to prove it..

Not a lot of what you are saying makes sense. Contradictory statements much?

I didn't say VariAres<LLD, do not put words in my mouth. I said the exact opposite.

EDIT:
AS I already PMed about 90, it has much less/very little competitive use paired up with Basalt as it stands. A blind eye is turned to that one results that gives a green light to D>CS.

CS is taller so there is more collision between metals whilst D is protected by the BD145 of VariAres, hence why 90 is give a advantage.

Do nullify such, use R145/H145 and the results, will be very different as you can imagine.

---

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Standard Procedures:

MF-H VariAres BD145RF (prime) v MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145D
VariAres won 29 (All KO)
Basalt won 2 (1 OS, 1 KO) - The first 4 hits were all wall hits. Then, the wall saved, Vari went out.
1 DRAW
(Tests includes the 11 video tests)

Basalt win percentage: 6.45%

As opposed to the OP's 66%

VIDEO EVIDENCE:
Click here or below for video evidence, Basalt gets flung away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXMxGhtR5xY

-- CS
MF-H VariAres BD145RF v MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS

VariAres won 14
Basalt won 6

Basalt win percentage: 30%

Those tests show CS doing 5 x better than D.

----------------------------------

MF-H VariAres BD145RF (this RF is slightly newer, expect slightly poorer results)
vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230D

VariAres won 20
Basalt won 0

Basalt win percentage: 0%

As opposed to the OP's 33%
--
MF-H VariAres BD145RF v MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230CS

VariAres won 15
Basalt won 5

Basalt win percentage: 25%

As opposed to the OP's: 10%

Basalt won by CS clinging on to the outer tornado ridge very often, it would slant inwards and circle nearby the tornado ridge, but not at speed, just "sliding" around it.

---

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Member of The Elite Five | Visit my MFB Store (UK only)