World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Customizations

The D Theory

Aug. 18, 2011  6:10 PM
 
Intro
Hi its othellog here and I'm here to discuss my theory.
Basically since the radius of D is not the whole tip, it helps it survive attacks better, by catching the tornado ridge.

I'll be using MF-H Basalt Kerbecs today because it best proves my point. The opposing bey will be MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF, since it has great attack power.

Explanation (Click to View)

Control_ 's Better Explanation Tongue_out (Click to View)

Conditions
-MF-H Basalt Kerbecs _____D/WD was always launched first.
-Test are in the BB-10 attack type stadium

Tests
(All battles are against Vari Ases BD145RF)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs _____D (Click to View)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs _____WD (Click to View)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs ______CS (Click to View)
Thanx for your time, be sure to test, and post what you think of The D Theory.
Aug. 18, 2011  6:15 PM
 
great find! hope this will come in handy during atournamant with a heavy attacker.
Aug. 18, 2011  6:18 PM
 
Not to rain on your parade but this was already known. That is why it is smarter, although a few might not pay much attention, to use SD when techniques like Weak Launching to provide more stability and allow it to stay in longer. Nice thread nonetheless.
Aug. 18, 2011  6:39 PM
 
Have to go with Bluzee, this is already known, hence D becoming extremely popular, in the UK too. TH170/230D are dominant compared to WD. The D has balance but does not scrape as much, which is a necessity when new heavy masses are on top, Hell, Basalt, BD145.

I do like the diagrams, and the effort gone into it.
Aug. 18, 2011  6:44 PM
 
(Aug. 18, 2011  6:18 PM)Bluezee Wrote: Not to rain on your parade but this was already known. That is why it is smarter, although a few might not pay much attention, to use SD when techniques like Weak Launching to provide more stability and allow it to stay in longer. Nice thread nonetheless.
I founded this a long time ago. Tongue_out I think I showed D was better than WD in my old MF-H Libra 85D thread, which was started December/January. Well, most people I meet have no idea why the hell they should use D instead of WD.
I haven't been in the customisations forum for months, so that's why I just posted it. I really need to do more tests with SD, I'm not comfortable using it in a tourney.

ControL_
Again, I talked about the D theory before, I just didn't create a thread. Thanx, it took a while to make the thread.
Aug. 18, 2011  6:48 PM
 
(Aug. 18, 2011  6:44 PM)othellog Wrote:
(Aug. 18, 2011  6:18 PM)Bluezee Wrote: Not to rain on your parade but this was already known. That is why it is smarter, although a few might not pay much attention, to use SD when techniques like Weak Launching to provide more stability and allow it to stay in longer. Nice thread nonetheless.
I founded this a long time ago. Tongue_out I think I showed D was better than WD in my old MF-H Libra 85D thread, which was started December/January. Well, most people I meet have no idea why the hell they should use D instead of WD.
I haven't been in the customisations forum for months, so that's why I just posted it. I really need to do more tests with SD, I'm not comfortable using it in a tourney.

ControL_
Again, I talked about the D theory before, I just didn't create a thread. Thanx, it took a while to make the thread.

OH that was you wasn't it!? I was wondering how I started using Libra 85D but couldn't remember how or why. Thanks again for that.
Aug. 18, 2011  6:51 PM
 
(Aug. 18, 2011  6:48 PM)Bluezee Wrote:
(Aug. 18, 2011  6:44 PM)othellog Wrote:
(Aug. 18, 2011  6:18 PM)Bluezee Wrote: Not to rain on your parade but this was already known. That is why it is smarter, although a few might not pay much attention, to use SD when techniques like Weak Launching to provide more stability and allow it to stay in longer. Nice thread nonetheless.
I founded this a long time ago. Tongue_out I think I showed D was better than WD in my old MF-H Libra 85D thread, which was started December/January. Well, most people I meet have no idea why the hell they should use D instead of WD.
I haven't been in the customisations forum for months, so that's why I just posted it. I really need to do more tests with SD, I'm not comfortable using it in a tourney.

ControL_
Again, I talked about the D theory before, I just didn't create a thread. Thanx, it took a while to make the thread.

OH that was you wasn't it!? I was wondering how I started using Libra 85D but couldn't remember how or why. Thanks again for that.
Your welcome. Smile
Thanx, its nice to see that my testing proved well to the wbo.
Aug. 18, 2011  7:25 PM
 
I would be interested in seeing the same sort of side-by-side results for D vs CS, with the inclusion of a couple stamina match-ups as well. Perhaps the lack of the rubber coating and associated increase in wins over stamina blades would more than compensate for a (potentially) lesser win rate against attack blades?
Aug. 18, 2011  7:36 PM
 
.
lol god damn it guys of course D will win. I honestly sort of hate what CS has become, you guys expect it to be a god tip or something and smack it on anything lol. Damn.
There is no 'potentially', it will get a lower win rates against attackers, and by making that rubber coating association I think you implied compared to CS also. (CS would trump D in defense, and defense only.)
Look, CS has many uses because of its height, but it has the same amount of stamina as WB nothing more, nothing less. It isn't that special, all it did was replace WB (and even then people were a bit shaky about it).
It seems because it can be used on a bunch of defensive beys because of its height and because it has better stamina than RS, CS has been given this aura of invulnerability or something which isn't true at all.
CS has good defense. I'd even say amazing and on par with RS when its out of the box (Ray Unicorno TT booster). But it doesn't fit in the stamina category.
Perhaps I'm going off and explaining this all wrong and in the wrong place, but the point is CS isn't godsend and I have no clue why you'd actually think it valuable to test a completely plastic tip against a semi-rubber tip. :V
God.
Aug. 18, 2011  7:51 PM
 
Haha thanks for that semi-rage there. I myself never used CS near as much as everyone else has on the WBO.

It really hit me early in November at the release of 230, that D was really a great way to go, of course it's extremely hard work to convince people, no matter the countless posts I made. Basalt Cancer 230D thread, beywiki article section on D etc.

On low tracks, perhaps WD has a slight advantage, but that's really because nothing heavy really is slabbed on low tracks nowadays. D is extremely balanced, the stability is good, the sliding appears at much lower rotational velocity and creates less friction.

However your images do not make sense to me.

The radius of both D and WD cover the surface of the tip, anyone can see that by looking at the parts. Ridge? It doesn't matter, the fact is quite simple and you ought to put this into the OP:

On the surface where contact is actually made, WD has a greater surface area to height/mass ratio compared to D. Therefore when WD loses rotational velocity and loses balance in the process, it will slide (scrape) the outer surfaces of the WD beyond the point/sharp itself. Where WD begins to slide, friction greater than XF is produced, increasing rotational velocity loss.

D on the other hand, has enough surface area not to tip over the outer circumference of its' surface (metal wheel/track scraping stadium), with enough stability provided which does not produce overwhelming friction. The balance/stability:scrape/sliding ratio is high.
Aug. 18, 2011  8:29 PM
 
(Aug. 18, 2011  7:51 PM)ControL_ Wrote: The radius of both D and WD cover the surface of the tip, anyone can see that by looking at the parts. Ridge? It doesn't matter, the fact is quite simple and you ought to put this into the OP:

On the surface where contact is actually made, WD has a greater surface area to height/mass ratio compared to D. Therefore when WD loses rotational velocity and loses balance in the process, it will slide (scrape) the outer surfaces of the WD beyond the point/sharp itself. Where WD begins to slide, friction greater than XF is produced, increasing rotational velocity loss.

D on the other hand, has enough surface area not to tip over the outer circumference of its' surface (metal wheel/track scraping stadium), with enough stability provided which does not produce overwhelming friction. The balance/stability:scrape/sliding ratio is high.

When I was reading the OP I couldn't make much sense of it either; your explanation is definitely better.

Yeah, although the notion that D is a superior option to other D-Series Bottoms is relatively widespread now, this might be a cool dedicated area to discuss it.

Aug. 18, 2011  9:37 PM
 
Makes more sense, but I have to go with Aurepaeo on this one and do some comparatives, or relatively this is only a second choice for most when CS is owned.
Aug. 18, 2011  9:48 PM
 
(Aug. 18, 2011  7:51 PM)ControL_ Wrote: Haha thanks for that semi-rage there. I myself never used CS near as much as everyone else has on the WBO.

It really hit me early in November at the release of 230, that D was really a great way to go, of course it's extremely hard work to convince people, no matter the countless posts I made. Basalt Cancer 230D thread, beywiki article section on D etc.

On low tracks, perhaps WD has a slight advantage, but that's really because nothing heavy really is slabbed on low tracks nowadays. D is extremely balanced, the stability is good, the sliding appears at much lower rotational velocity and creates less friction.

However your images do not make sense to me.

The radius of both D and WD cover the surface of the tip, anyone can see that by looking at the parts. Ridge? It doesn't matter, the fact is quite simple and you ought to put this into the OP:

On the surface where contact is actually made, WD has a greater surface area to height/mass ratio compared to D. Therefore when WD loses rotational velocity and loses balance in the process, it will slide (scrape) the outer surfaces of the WD beyond the point/sharp itself. Where WD begins to slide, friction greater than XF is produced, increasing rotational velocity loss.

D on the other hand, has enough surface area not to tip over the outer circumference of its' surface (metal wheel/track scraping stadium), with enough stability provided which does not produce overwhelming friction. The balance/stability:scrape/sliding ratio is high.
Well, it was hard for me to explain to. I'll add your explanation to the op, it seems much easier to understand, thanx.
I'll do more tests Arupaeo and BBS. I hope there is alot more to come for this thread. Smile
Aug. 18, 2011  10:37 PM
 
Just tried this. IMO D only is good with low tracks and MF-H Hell Kerbecs230D. Thanks for this Othellog Grin
Aug. 18, 2011  10:37 PM
 
I think more so than D being verseatile, you're just racking wins in the test cuz Basalt is so freakin' OP (overpowered)
Aug. 18, 2011  10:41 PM
 
(Aug. 18, 2011  10:37 PM)® Wrote: Just tried this. IMO D only is good with low tracks and MF-H Hell Kerbecs230D. Thanks for this Othellog Grin
Comparative testing will show Hell BD145D > WD.

Furthermore, it's definitely dominant on TH170 on all heights, definitely against destabalisers etc. You'll find that since high tracks can destabalise mid height tracks, it's suitable for S130/D125 if you were to pick those unusual tracks.

As you said, it's good with low tracks, it isn't only good on low tracks however.
Aug. 18, 2011  11:00 PM
 
(Aug. 18, 2011  10:37 PM)suddenr1se Wrote: I think more so than D being verseatile, you're just racking wins in the test cuz Basalt is so freakin' OP (overpowered)
What is this MW2?!
It isn't overpowered, it is the most used wheel for testing so that is why I chose it for the testing. As the op says, it proves my point the best.

Aug. 19, 2011  12:01 AM
 
For all of you who wanted a comparison to CS, here it is!!

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 90CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 90D: 6
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 9
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 90D win percentage: 40%

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs T125CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs T125CS: 6
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 9
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs T125CS win percentage: 40%

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS: 5
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 10
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS win percentage: 33%

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230CS: 1
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 9
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230CS win percentage: 10%
Lol, it was losing 1 to 9 so I just stopped testing. Tongue_out
I'll also do a comparason between CS and D against stamina/balance types.
Aug. 19, 2011  8:59 PM
 
(Aug. 19, 2011  12:01 AM)othellog Wrote: For all of you who wanted a comparison to CS, here it is!!

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 90CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 90D: 6
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 9
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 90D win percentage: 40%

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs T125CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs T125CS: 6
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 9
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs T125CS win percentage: 40%


MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS: 5
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 10
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS win percentage: 33%

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230CS: 1
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 9
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230CS win percentage: 10%
Lol, it was losing 1 to 9 so I just stopped testing. Tongue_out
I'll also do a comparason between CS and D against stamina/balance types.

Whoa wait a sec
For your first test you wrote basalt kerbecs 90d instead of cs
To be on topic I use earth bull 85/90d instead of WD
Aug. 19, 2011  11:05 PM
 
great thread but was it really necessary to bring back a long known topic none the less
Nice Job!
also on CS
I agree with Dan...
CS was considered the third best defense bottom at one time and now because of one combo that was brought to life I've seen people referring to it as THE BEST DEFENSE TIP AVAILABLE
honestly I love CS as much as the next Guy but people are just overdoing it.
sure its a brilliant tip but there are many more tips available (RSF,RS,RB[maybe],)
people resort to it for attack I even made a combo with CS (Dan would know)[MF Ldrago Destroy BD145CS]
and now I regret it CS should be turned back to the way it was when it was brand newto the forums...LOL extremely off topic
Aug. 20, 2011  2:02 AM
 
(Aug. 19, 2011  8:59 PM). Wrote:
(Aug. 19, 2011  12:01 AM)othellog Wrote: For all of you who wanted a comparison to CS, here it is!!

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 90CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 90D: 6
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 9
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 90D win percentage: 40%

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs T125CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs T125CS: 6
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 9
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs T125CS win percentage: 40%


MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS: 5
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 10
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs GB145CS win percentage: 33%

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230CS vs MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF

MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230CS: 1
MF-H Vari Ares BD145RF: 9
Draws: 0
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230CS win percentage: 10%
Lol, it was losing 1 to 9 so I just stopped testing. Tongue_out
I'll also do a comparason between CS and D against stamina/balance types.

Whoa wait a sec
For your first test you wrote basalt kerbecs 90d instead of cs
To be on topic I use earth bull 85/90d instead of WD
Its a comparison between D and CS.
Aug. 20, 2011  2:26 AM
 
Then why the CS in mf-h basalt kerbecs 90CS
Aug. 20, 2011  3:07 AM
 
Uh certain comparative results make honestly no sense tbh. The only sensible one was 90. (less metal contact made since D is lower than CS)
My little brother threw out my D tip, but I never took note of such qualities ever at all..
Aug. 20, 2011  3:22 AM
 
Eh? D outlasts CS. gotta try this.
Aug. 20, 2011  3:51 AM
 
Read my first post in this thread. CS isn't the best tip in the world, obviously a full plastic, D series tip would outlast a semi rubber S tip.
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