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MSF-L Girago Dragooon SA165EWD (Attack Mode)

Oct. 15, 2013  6:27 PM
 
Ingulit:

ShinobuXD Wrote:Standard Procedure
Dragooon Weak Launched for maximum spin stealing
Launches Rotated
Duo Gasher AD145 WD vs Revizer Dragooon SA165 EWD
Duo:10 Wins(All OS)
Dragooon:0 Wins(N/A)
1 Tie
Dragooon Win Rate: 0%

MSF-H Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD vs. Duo Cygnus W145WD
Beys alternated launching first. New EWD, new WD.
Dragooon: wins, 0/10
Cygnus: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
MSF-H Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD win rate: 0%

You didn't know this? LOL it's always been this way... that's why Duo SA165EWD is such a great choice. Destroys this thing.

Duo W145, SA165, or F230 all hit between 90-100% against MSF-H Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD very consistently. This combo, on the other hand, will hit 100% against W145, 80-100% against SA165, and, if you can get the launch right (which is actually really, really hard without practice), 70% against F230.

I wrote why I used Girago in the OP... it works really, really well on anything Dragooon for some reason. It's more balanced than Reviser and makes for much cleaner precession from what I've observed. Girago doesn't have much recoil at all (hence Girago anti-attack), and it gives you a good grip on Duo in the last few rotations of the match. It also gives you an edge over other Dragooon combos that may be using Reviser or Wyvang.

From my experience, Girago works better than Reviser on this thing. Just my opinion. Obviously Reviser would be a more than viable choice, but I myself would definitely pick Girago if I had it.

I wouldn't call this any less safe than other Dragooon combos at all... in fact, I would feel much more comfortable using this than anything else in a tournament. But, again, we need more testing.
Oct. 15, 2013  6:34 PM
 
wow nice job theblackdragon too bad I don't have a single part to this combo XD anyway I would like to see some tests against Death, Death has always been the king of Anti-Spin steal XD crushing Dragooon with it's grinding abilities I wonder if Death will put up a good fight... anwya the combo I want it tested against is MF-F Death ___ W145WD and SA165EWD
Oct. 15, 2013  6:40 PM
 
Could u test it against a t-staller like phantom Pegasus 85mf?
Oct. 15, 2013  6:45 PM
 
actually there are tests against Phantom 90MF already... read the posts above you Smile
Oct. 15, 2013  6:47 PM
 
Oh yeah I didn't see those tests, thanks
Oct. 15, 2013  8:00 PM
 
Any test requests?
Oct. 15, 2013  8:03 PM
 
yes this combo vs. MF-F Death Cygnus W145WD and SA165EWD
Oct. 15, 2013  8:04 PM
 
Ok i will do that ASAP!
Oct. 16, 2013  9:18 PM
 
theblackdragon, do you my combo Girago Dragooon S130WSF will work?
Oct. 17, 2013  12:29 AM
 
I can do those tests Lazer wants ASAP.
Oct. 18, 2013  12:28 AM
 
okay thanks Shiny however it would be nice to have both tests Grin oh and Striker Phantom uhhh if your talking about as a good combo worthy of the tier-list then first of all that should be ask in the Ask a question get an answer #2 or by PM.. second of all test it and the tests will tell Grin (following the standard testing procedure of course) if you mean against
Oct. 18, 2013  3:36 AM
 
How close are the results you guys have been getting? Cause I did some tests, and while there were TONS and TONS of exact ties (good god this took basically all the time I had to test today), in almost every case that it wasn't a tie, Duo won by more than a rotation:

MSF-L Girago Dragooon SA165[Attack]EWD vs. Duo Cygnus W145WD
Duo launched first on even launches, Dragooon launched first on odd.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Dragooon: 2 (2 OS, 0 KO)
Duo: 18 (18 OS, 0 KO)
Dragooon Win %: 10.0%

(see the "Detail Results" spoiler to see how many ties there were)
Oct. 18, 2013  3:38 AM
 
That is very weird because I can OS Duo BGrin and W145WD consistently with this thing.
Oct. 18, 2013  3:40 AM
 
What do you consider an "OS"? It has to be a full rotation, not "Oh I think Dragooon nudged slightly left after Duo stopped!" (which would be a tie, and is why my test took so freaking forever)
Oct. 18, 2013  3:41 AM
 
If it's as close as everyone says though, it is very likely that the small variation that results from human error and unavoidable differences would cause statistically significant (I'm not going to check z-scores lol but almost guaranteed) changes in the win percentages.

EDIT: I will add that if a combo relies on such a small margin of victory, in a tournament setting this would be incredibly unreliable because of the sheer extent that chance factors into a victory with this combo.
Oct. 18, 2013  3:47 AM
 
Actually Ga', in a tournament, I have won I believe 2 times against Yuko who was using Duo with this combo, well something similar but.. whatever. This does much better than any other Dragooon combo I've seen.
Oct. 18, 2013  4:08 AM
 
I mean, all "spin-stealers" have always only won by a super small margin, and I'll admit this margin is very veeeeeery small. It would come down to the judge's opinion most cases, and while I'd argue that judges need to be more strict (and that Duo has the advantage) I can see a judge calling it the other way.

Also, FWIW, I did tests of MSF-H Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD against Duo Cygnus W145WD and got similar results, meaning lots of ties with, yes, Duo having the overall advantage (my mistake regarding that lol).
Oct. 18, 2013  4:18 AM
 
(Oct. 18, 2013  3:47 AM)Shining God MS Wrote: Actually Ga', in a tournament, I have won I believe 2 times against Yuko who was using Duo with this combo, well something similar but.. whatever. This does much better than any other Dragooon combo I've seen.

You beat me with that once and I was also using a left spin combo, I never used Duo against you.
Oct. 18, 2013  4:31 AM
 
I'm a little fuzzy on the details but, you did use Duo against me and we tied 3 times.
Oct. 18, 2013  6:37 PM
 
Ingulit:

Do you have to make a full rotation to win? :\ I've been to 9 tournaments and none of them were judged that way... If it was still spinning it was still spinning. I'm pretty sure as long as you're moving in a circular direction your still "spinning"...

If you had to win by a full rotation we would never finish tournaments LOL. Like, literally, I'd still be in Rolesville park right now watching my bother play Thunderdome.

But yah, I got much better results against W145WD. :\ I'll re-do them later today if I can.

One more thing... about Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD, when Shinobu and I tried it was being obliterated... like, maximum 1 tie every 5 rounds (that's at the most, usually around 1 in every fifteen rounds) and Duo was clearly winning by a considerable margin. IDK why our results are different...

Anyone else care to test?
Oct. 19, 2013  12:24 AM
 
(Oct. 18, 2013  4:31 AM)Shining God MS Wrote: I'm a little fuzzy on the details but, you did use Duo against me and we tied 3 times.

This is the last time i'm going to deal with this on the thread but I have the actual footage and the tournament results, when we very first battle we had I did use Duo and I won. The next two battles we had were same spin battles both that you were victorious over me in. I'm not a sore looser but I would appreciate if you were 100% sure of your victories vs me before posting about it haha
Oct. 19, 2013  3:13 AM
 
Ok... I re-did the testing this time, but I only counted wins when the beyblade made a full rotation or more.

MSF-L Girago Dragooon SA165EWD (attack mode) vs. Duo Cancer W145WD
Beys alternated launching first. Both weak launched.
Dragooon: wins, 8/8 (All OS)
Cancer: wins, 0/8
MSF-L Girago Dragooon SA165EWD win rate: incomplete

Ties redone: 48

I had to get up and leave to go to a meeting before I could quite get 10 rounds done, so this is definitely incomplete, but I am still getting the same results (maybe even better today, actually). :\ There were many, many rounds where it was painfully obvious that Dragooon out-spun, but it wasn't by quite a full rotation. Duo out-spun by a quarter to half of a rotation 2 or 3 times out of the 56 rounds. I'm also still getting 100% with Duo against Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD.

Something weird is going on here... Could Duo's mold be skewing the results? :\ It could be the EWD. How worn would you say yours is? I used a very close to new one.
Oct. 19, 2013  3:21 AM
 
I have two SA165s so now I can test!
Oct. 19, 2013  3:23 AM
 
Yes! Thanks shiny (can I call you that? XD).

MSF-L Girago Dragooon SA165EWD (attack mode) vs. Duo Cancer/Cygnus/whatever SA165EWD/W145WD

Either of those two would be great. Smile


(Oct. 18, 2013  3:41 AM)GaHooleone Wrote: If it's as close as everyone says though, it is very likely that the small variation that results from human error and unavoidable differences would cause statistically significant (I'm not going to check z-scores lol but almost guaranteed) changes in the win percentages.

EDIT: I will add that if a combo relies on such a small margin of victory, in a tournament setting this would be incredibly unreliable because of the sheer extent that chance factors into a victory with this combo.

Well, that's not really the case...

This thing stomps on all the things other Dragooon combos can stomp on. However, it can also win (by, of course, a relatively small margin) other combos that usually destroy Dragooon, Like Duo W145WD/SA165EWD.

It doesn't always win by a small margin. In fact, against really just about anything that isn't a Duo spin-equalizer it wins by a huge margin in my experience.
Oct. 19, 2013  3:29 AM
 
Shiny and Ultimate Orion do you have the results yet? I really want to know how this will do against Death...
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