I'm in favor of Leone19's Dark Knight Zirago for attack, but I still think putting Screw & Vulcan on the list is seriously misleading. I wouldn't use either of them in competition & saying that they're Top Tier implies that they're on the same level as Lightning L Drago & Omega (as I've mentioned before), which they aren't.

See, I would have disagreed with this a few months ago, but then I bought and Omega. I did comparative tests against MF-H Earth Cancer R145RB and Omega was far and away the best out of all of them. Like I said, I'm starting to think Attack should just be Lightning and Omega, since everything else seems inferior.

EDIT: I don't know why I linked the tests if they're literally on the previous page. Guess they just seemed longer ago than that.

Yeah, that's what I've been saying for a while now. I don't know if some people don't just have Omega to compare them to, but if you own this wheel, there is literally no reason to use Vulcan, Screw, Phoenic, etc.

Believe me, I would love to see a successful Vulcan or Thief Phoenic combo just as much as the next guy, but such a thing hasn't happened yet.

---

Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

My intuition tells me right now that the Attack list should include: Omega, Lightning, and Pegasis. That is, if we are talking about RF-based Attack, and we forget the potential of RSF/RB-based Attack in Limited for a moment, which is another issue entirely.

I might be a bit biased towards Pegasis because I was around when it was deadly in Standard–and basically on par with Lightning–but I'm inclined to include it for Limited not necessarily because it is definitively the "best" Attack Wheel, but because it has characteristics that are totally different then Omega and Lightning. Both of those Wheels are not nearly as explosive as Pegasis is, in my opinion. This is somewhat difficult to quantify though, so you're free to disagree with me. Hopefully some of you know what I mean, though.

Another Wheel that I think might be worth some consideration because of some unique characteristics is Scythe because it has one of the widest Attack ranges of any other Wheel in Limited (Bahamdia is wider, but also thinner and not as good as Scythe). We have Scythe CH120RF in Balance right now, but it could very well be good enough to include in Attack.

There are plenty of above average Attack Wheels that are viable for Limited, but if this is going to be the "top tier" list, that means that some parts have to be cut. I've said this many times, but I'll say it again: just because a part isn't on the tier list doesn't mean it isn't good. For example, I personally like Cosmic, but I realize that it probably isn't any better than Pegasis, and in fact, might be a bit worse. But at the same time, I also don't think it is a good idea to scrutinize the list so closely that we are only listing two Wheels for a particular section, especially for a format like Limited which is so wide open in terms of what is viable.

As a result, I think shrinking the list to Omega, Lightning, Pegasis, and Scythe might be best. The best Wheels are represented, and great Wheels that offer a different feel or have special characteristics that may be advantageous in many situations are also listed. The only question might be: Is Pegasis better than things like Beat, Screw, Vulcan, Phoenic, Wyvang, Cosmic, and Balro? I think it is, but what do you guys think?

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We've seen plenty of defense, balance, and stamina testing for Scythe, but not nearly enough for attack. I think it could be a good edition but, personally, I'd like to see more tests in order to develop the ideal attack combination. I can also see at least one or two of the chrome wheel combos (Wyvang, Balro, Zirago) making the cut, but those would need to be looked into more, as well.

As for Pegasis, I just ordered one yesterday so I can help test when I have the time.

---

Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

My intuition tells me right now that the Attack list should include: Omega, Lightning, and Pegasis. That is, if we are talking about RF-based Attack, and we forget the potential of RSF/RB-based Attack in Limited for a moment, which is another issue entirely.

I might be a bit biased towards Pegasis because I was around when it was deadly in Standard–and basically on par with Lightning–but I'm inclined to include it for Limited not necessarily because it is definitively the "best" Attack Wheel, but because it has characteristics that are totally different then Omega and Lightning. Both of those Wheels are not nearly as explosive as Pegasis is, in my opinion. This is somewhat difficult to quantify though, so you're free to disagree with me. Hopefully some of you know what I mean, though.

Another Wheel that I think might be worth some consideration because of some unique characteristics is Scythe because it has one of the widest Attack ranges of any other Wheel in Limited (Bahamdia is wider, but also thinner and not as good as Scythe). We have Scythe CH120RF in Balance right now, but it could very well be good enough to include in Attack.

...

Is Pegasis better than things like Beat, Screw, Vulcan, Phoenic, Wyvang, Cosmic, and Balro? I think it is, but what do you guys think?

While I have Pegasus, I rarel use it because I don't want to chip the paint. But I can test it if we really need to. If we were to get usage rates I bet Pegasus would be 3rd or 4th for Attack, behind Omega, Lightning, and possibly Wyvang (Not counting Gravity of course). So there's definitely something keeping it apart from the easier-to-obtain Omega.

I think Scythe CH120RF is classified as Balance as Anti-Attack/RF-based Defense. I don't own one so I can't really vouch for or against it, but I think it should stay in Balance.

In comparison to the other wheels:
- I'm pretty sure the only testing for Beat is invalid, so who knows.
- th!nk put Pegasus and Screw on the same level when he said "Screw's main competition for the top tier list will be Pegasus" or something similar.
- I don't have a Phoenic but I'm inclined to say it's worse, because of the weight distribution and that it might have a smaller "range" due to the Crystal Wheel and its design.
- I personally don't like Wyvang but others have had success with it. Maybe Wyvang should stay as an RSF/RB based Attacker or Balance type.
- I haven't really tried Cosmic, except for that time I tested it against Hell in Poseidon's thread. I think it might be a bit to situational to be top tier since its main use is in TH170 Force Smashers.
- No clue on Balro. I've never tried it in Limited.

Is Pegasis better than things like Beat, Screw, Vulcan, Phoenic, Wyvang, Cosmic, and Balro?

On most occasion, yes. Here's what I feel on each wheel being on the Tier List, though:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Beat: While most of the tests done were fabricated, we have very few to determine that it has as much potential as something like Pegasis. I myself played around with it multiple times, and have seemed to like it. Despite that however, again, we have very little valuable information on it.

Screw: Probably not Tier List worthy. As I briefly mentioned yesterday, while we have wheels like Scythe and Omega for Attack in Limited, it may not always be the best of choices.

Vulcan: Ehh, I'm somewhere in between. I've really never seen it used for Attack during Toronto events, nor have I ever played around with it too much. It can be looked into furthermore, though, I'd say.

Phoenic: Maybe, just maybe until more tests appear. I like it quite a lot on MSF-H Theif Phoenic H145R2F, although it does have a lot of recoil.

Wyvang: Potentially, although I don't really like it much in comparison to Pegasis, Lightning and Omega oriented Attack. I seem to like it most on RB and RSF, as well.

Cosmic: I can't really say anything on this, as I don't own one, haha. I like it's Force Smasher use on TH170, though. Therefore, possibly, I'd say.

Balro: Like Wyvang, potentially. I've seen it used on winning combinations in other cities and states not including Toronto (New York and Maryland I believe they were), although risky in comparison to Pegasis, Lightning and Omega.

By the way, has Jade ever been considered on the Tier List, too? Ultimate Blaze's Jade variant was once able to beat JesseObre's Lightning one, which got me quite interested. I also believe it was used by Yuko Ray14 at GBT2, as well. Not too sure of the actual outcome, though.

Yeah, I think Yuko used something along the line of Jade Aquario GB145 R2F, if I remember correctly.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

I'm in favor of Leone19's Dark Knight Zirago for attack, but I still think putting Screw & Vulcan on the list is seriously misleading. I wouldn't use either of them in competition & saying that they're Top Tier implies that they're on the same level as Lightning L Drago & Omega (as I've mentioned before), which they aren't.

I tested screw and it goes well with this combo: screw belzeb T125XF

I'm in favor of Leone19's Dark Knight Zirago for attack, but I still think putting Screw & Vulcan on the list is seriously misleading. I wouldn't use either of them in competition & saying that they're Top Tier implies that they're on the same level as Lightning L Drago & Omega (as I've mentioned before), which they aren't.

I tested screw and it goes well with this combo: screw belzeb T125XF

Beelzeb have no competitive use, it is outclassed by Aquario, Cancer, Bull, ect... By the way, Uranus/Ice-Titan works pretty good with Screw.

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Actually Beelzeb is used in Flash attack customs. So, saying it has no use is incorrect.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

From my own experience in limited for attack combos, I could say that MF-H Pegasus R145R2F works really well. its force smash is incredible.

for balro I used MSF Thief Balro W145R2F and it's more powerfull than my Pegasus combo. so violent, when I tryed it against my Friend Krustyburger05 I beat him every time with this combos and I hurt him 2 times during the battle and have some injuries you should try this Balro Combo.

Cosmic has some potential I used MF Cosmic Horuseus 85GCF, great force smash too.
Wing has some potential too IMO, I used MSF-H Wing Kerbecs T125GCF (a little hard to control if you launch too hard, but have great stamina against defense combos and good Force Smash.

I tryed a Bahamdia Combo too he has a lot of force smahs in start of battle butif the battle during a little to long it lose automatically so its a little hard to use. my combo is: MSF-H Samurai Bahamdia R145 RB/RSF
that's what I found to work the best at the time with bahamdia.

All non-synchromed combo are in Chrystal up mode.

I have a special lefty attack combo with Stamina and great force smash: MSF-H Dark knight Beigirados R145 CF/GCF (CF has a little more control)

presently I work on this combo: MSF-H Shinobi Pegasus W105MF (chrystal up) it has great force smash, but may be it could do better.

I know I doesn't do official testing right now on the forum but if you can try it it could be a great help for me. I don't have time at now to do more official testing.

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Beyblade for life! I'm proud to represent Québec and all french people! :D
----
Beycloud Profil
----
Best tournament:

2014 (Click to View)

Montréal, Québec, Canada - July 12th 2014 - The Bombdiggity Tournament Limited Format => finished third!
Montréal, Québec, Canada - August 16th 2014 - "Notre ami Félix" tournament Zero-G => Finished Second!
Montréal, Québec, Canada - October 11th 2014 - QuéBeycois Tournament Standard Format => Finished third!

2015 (Click to View)

Montréal, Québec, Canada- May 24th 2015 - BeyDays Tournament Standard Format => Finished first!
Montréal, Québec, Canada- June 21st 2015 - La St-Jean Go SHOOT! Tournament Zero-G Format => Finished Second!

Thx for the help!!!!! There great mostly balro

Here's my thoughts on each Wheel:

Pegasis: Frankly, I have never been all that impressed with Pegasis. I don't know why, but it feels way too recoil-y and ineffective. I almost never use it.

Lightning: Lightning is glorious. It very much deserves its spot on the tier list.

Omega: Very, very strong against a wide variety of heights. Omega and Lightning, are, IMO, the perfect example of a great Attack type. They both handle opponents at a wide variety of height matchups well, and have a huge amount of Smash Attack.

Gravity: Really, really good. Still should be banned; the dual-spin combined with its great Attack is pretty game-breaking.

Beat: I don't really know about this one. I have no personal experience with it, and since the majority of the testing out there is fabricated, I can't cast judgement on it right now.

Jade: I believe TBD put it this way: Jade is rather inconsistent, but when it does hit it hits hard. It's certainly good, but it has some issues with dealing with anything taller than itself. Probably not quite top-tier worthy, but close.

Screw: Bleh. It's only really effective when it can make use of its Upper Smash, and I wasn't really all that impressed with it when I tried using it on LTAC. It suffers from the same issues several of the other Wheels on this list have: ineffectiveness against certain other heights. If it is to compete against the likes of Omega for a spot, it had better do really, really well against one set of heights or do well against a wide variety of heights. Screw does neither.

Vulcan: I've had a lot more success with Vulcan. It still is pretty much completely ineffective against anything shorter than itself, but it does okay against things its own height and is more consistent against taller opponents. I used a Vulcan LTAC quite effectively at the GBT2 qualifier I went to. Vulcan just feels right to me; it handles recoil admirably, has fairly good Stamina for an Attack type, and still has a very strong, consistent Upper Smash. I'm still not sure if it deserves to be on the top-tier list, but if Beat turns out to be a dud, I think Vulcan has a good chance for a spot.

Cosmic: I have no experience with this Wheel, though I see its main rival in the running for top-tier to be Jade; they are both Force Smashers for the most part, and if one turns out to be better than the other, then only the stronger one will probably make the list, due to their similar roles.

Phoenic: I was disappointed by Phoenic when I tried it out; it is really, really recoily in either Crystal Up or Crystal Down modes, and although its Smash was fairly good, it wasn't great and the recoil issues outweighed the usefulness of the Smash it had.

Wyvang and Balro: I haven't really tried either of these Wheels out yet; I used Wyvang a little and was fairly impressed, but I don't really use it at all (not for any particular fault or reason, I just don't.) I haven't tried Balro at all.

Dark Knight LTAC: I've been pushing this for a while; I really think it deserves a spot on the list. The offensive power that Ronin/Dark Knight can put out is crazy strong and still fairly consistent. Being left-spin, it also has a slight chance of straight-up OSing its opponent by spin-stealing, and it counters Meteo and Lightning combos by being the same spin direction as them. I tried making a Balance combo using Dark Knight on an LTAC setup, and adding what LAD I could by using Genbull instead of Girago, and even that did a good job as an Attack type. A more Attack-specialized version would do even better.

---

Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

I really agree with most of your thoughts, Cake.

Especially with me personally pushing for Ronin LTAC Ronin Zirago 85 RF, I really think it deserves a spot.

From personal use, Cosmic is definitely "good", but it might not necessarily be Top Tier. Just my personal thoughts, though.

With the subject of Pegasus, though- I do think it deserves a spot. Mainly seeing it at events and personal use, I really like that part. The great turquoise paintjob probably comes into play too, haha.

---

Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

From my own experience in limited for attack combos, I could say that MF-H Pegasus R145R2F works really well. its force smash is incredible.

for balro I used MSF Thief Balro W145R2F and it's more powerfull than my Pegasus combo. so violent, when I tryed it against my Friend Krustyburger05 I beat him every time with this combos and I hurt him 2 times during the battle and have some injuries you should try this Balro Combo.

Cosmic has some potential I used MF Cosmic Horuseus 85GCF, great force smash too.
Wing has some potential too IMO, I used MSF-H Wing Kerbecs T125GCF (a little hard to control if you launch too hard, but have great stamina against defense combos and good Force Smash.

I tryed a Bahamdia Combo too he has a lot of force smahs in start of battle butif the battle during a little to long it lose automatically so its a little hard to use. my combo is: MSF-H Samurai Bahamdia R145 RB/RSF
that's what I found to work the best at the time with bahamdia.

All non-synchromed combo are in Chrystal up mode.

I have a special lefty attack combo with Stamina and great force smash: MSF-H Dark knight Beigirados R145 CF/GCF (CF has a little more control)

presently I work on this combo: MSF-H Shinobi Pegasus W105MF (chrystal up) it has great force smash, but may be it could do better.

I know I doesn't do official testing right now on the forum but if you can try it it could be a great help for me. I don't have time at now to do more official testing.

I tested balro thief w145r2f and bahmdia samurai r145rsf and it ended up like this:
1 match : winner: thief, outlast
2match: equal
3match: winner: samurai, stadium out

Combo proposition by: Loyd57
Stadium used: vortex(hasbro),2002(plastic gen.)
Launcher: ll2 (light launcher 2) with angle compas grip(hasbro)

You should do 20 tests. and you should test in a legal stadium.

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

If you want to use those tests, post them here:
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Hasbro-M...id=1242158

---

Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Updates on Attack:

I've been playing around with the Wheels I have for a little bit and I would like to clarify/revise some of my standings on each wheel.

Pegasis: My problems with Pegasus are almost entirely based around its recoil. It has a very strong, very consistent Smash Attack, but it has so much recoil that it is just as likely that it will KO itself as it will KO its opponent. Even with a MF-H and using heavy Tracks, Pegasis gets thrown around just as much as its opponent does; I suppose that a wily Blader could launch so Pegasis gets a wall save while your opponent does not, but that's hardly a safe strategy.

Jade: I neglected to mention that Jade needs TH170 to be used properly. 160 or LW165 can be used if TH170 is unavailable, but the height-changing feature is extremely handy. However, unless you bank hard, at that height it is hard to make contact with LTDC like Bakushin.

Vulcan: Upon further review, I don't think Vulcan deserves a spot on the top-tier list. Lightning and Pegasis are in another league entirely when it comes to Smash potential.

Screw: Same issues as Vulcan. It just can't compare with the stronger Wheels in the meta.

Wyvang: Wyvang is pretty strong; it's powerful, but doesn't self-KO like Pegasis. However, it has consistency issues and doesn't land solid hits as often as I would like. It is much more effective against Libra than against Earth or Bakushin.

Balro: I am really impressed with Balro. It is nearly as powerful as Wyvang and the current trio of Attack types, but is extremely consistent and has significantly less recoil issues than Pegasis. IMO Balro is one of the strongest candidates for top-tier.

Dark Knight: Since Dark Knight is a plastic part that is making contact with metal at very high velocities, naturally it will wear out very, very fast. It loses a lot of its power very rapidly with wear, similar to Variares' rapid loss of KOing ability, but even faster. Unless you buy a lot of Dragooons, you will wear these out very quickly.

Bahamidia: Bahamidia did very poorly when I tried it; it has only decent offensive power yet has a lot of recoil. It also wasn't particularly consistent.

I was using Shinobi for the Chrome Wheel testing, by the way.

---

Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

Updates on Attack:

Dark Knight: Since Dark Knight is a plastic part that is making contact with metal at very high velocities, naturally it will wear out very, very fast. It loses a lot of its power very rapidly with wear, similar to Variares' rapid loss of KOing ability, but even faster. Unless you buy a lot of Dragooons, you will wear these out very quickly.

I've never heard of or even experienced that issue, before. Especially after testing Ronin Zirago so much.

Can you post any pictures comparing or just showing the worn Ronin?

---

Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

I'd rather join in this discussion if I could, but I have exam tommorow and my sliding shoot is in a carpy condition. I have this to say though:

If we aren't including Screw/Vulcan because of Omega/Pegasus, then why we didn't remove Balro back in Standard, because it pulls off lower win rates than Wyvang against BD145? Calling a MW competitive just because another is better is not at all good, and blatantly wrong tbh.

If the tier list is strictly "only the best" then (plastics stuff coming) Triple Tiger wouldn't be considered top tier. Only Cross Griffon or Upper Dragoon would be considered top tier.

I'll do some testing as soon as I can snatch time to play beyblade.

---

I've never heard of or even experienced that issue, before. Especially after testing Ronin Zirago so much.

Can you post any pictures comparing or just showing the worn Ronin?

I tried it myself, I don't know for Takara Tomy, but when used as a top Chrome Wheel on a low track, Dark Knight can worn down fast, not too much, but in a particuliar situation against a particuliar opponent, yes.

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ok, so here's my thoughts on the tier list for limited:

Omega:yup, definitely

Lightning:I haven't used it much, but i believe Dark Knight is better

Cosmic:too recoily and flimsy

Pegasis:don't own one

Screw:love the attack power

Beat:don't even use this

Vulcan:good, but not top tier worthy

Dark Knight LTAC: One word:AMAZING!

Wyvang:No, not good enough, especially with it's recoil and such. but on Dark Knight, it's all good

Balro:haven't tested it much

---

Top 300, yeah!
Check Out My YouTube Channel!
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I've never heard of or even experienced that issue, before. Especially after testing Ronin Zirago so much.

Can you post any pictures comparing or just showing the worn Ronin?

I tried it myself, I don't know for Takara Tomy, but when used as a top Chrome Wheel on a low track, Dark Knight can worn down fast, not too much, but in a particuliar situation against a particuliar opponent, yes.

Personnaly my three Dark Knight doesn't show any sign of worn. I used it really often and the most of the time on attack combo and they makes jumps a lot their opponent. My Blue Samurai has more worn sign than my Dark Knight and he has used one time and its during a tournament(it does all matchs played by the kids). may be it's a quality control problem. some worn down fast and other don't.

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Beyblade for life! I'm proud to represent Québec and all french people! :D
----
Beycloud Profil
----
Best tournament:

2014 (Click to View)

Montréal, Québec, Canada - July 12th 2014 - The Bombdiggity Tournament Limited Format => finished third!
Montréal, Québec, Canada - August 16th 2014 - "Notre ami Félix" tournament Zero-G => Finished Second!
Montréal, Québec, Canada - October 11th 2014 - QuéBeycois Tournament Standard Format => Finished third!

2015 (Click to View)

Montréal, Québec, Canada- May 24th 2015 - BeyDays Tournament Standard Format => Finished first!
Montréal, Québec, Canada- June 21st 2015 - La St-Jean Go SHOOT! Tournament Zero-G Format => Finished Second!

Okay so I've had Pegasis for about 5 hours, but I already love it. While my perspective is Limited (hah) it looks to me like Pegasis 90 RF/R2F would almost be on the same level as its Lightning counterpart. Given I have to do more testing, right now my instinct is to second Kei in that the attack list should consist of Omega, Lightning & Pegasis if all else goes.
I have yet to do Scythe attack testing myself... Still a little skeptical of this one since I've never seen it in action.

& more crystal wheel testing, guys! I would love to see some Zero G on that list (*cough*Dark Knight*cough*)

---

Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

Okay so I've had Pegasis for about 5 hours, but I already love it. While my perspective is Limited (hah) it looks to me like Pegasis 90 RF/R2F would almost be on the same level as its Lightning counterpart. Given I have to do more testing, right now my instinct is to second Kei in that the attack list should consist of Omega, Lightning & Pegasis if all else goes.
I have yet to do Scythe attack testing myself... Still a little skeptical of this one since I've never seen it in action.

& more crystal wheel testing, guys! I would love to see some Zero G on that list (*cough*Dark Knight*cough*)

You just got Pegasis?
It's amazing how good it is today despite being the first MFB.
RF is more reliable for it IMO; needs the friction after taking a hit.

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