Hm, your phantom is in attack mode. I don't know about relic but I use stamina mode.

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I always use my Phantom on Attack mode, since I feel it performs better in stamina battles. Regardless, the difference is minuscule.

I used Phantom in Stamina Mode. Sorry for not mentioning it though, my bad. I'll edit the post now.

---

Spoiler (Click to View)

Credits :
Signature : Focus
Avatar : N0body (No pun intended)

Anyway, I'll put Relic's and Primal's result in the OP as well to keep this as unbiased as possible. Don't sweat the completely different results. I know full well what works on some people might not be the case for others. All results are welcomed.

Could you do some tests against the exact combo I used (MF-F Phantom (Stamina) Cancer 230D)? Would be interested to see if the mode and MF-F alter your results a bit.

Relic did mention something to me about having a particularly light duo that was not great for defense but did work well for stamina, better than his current one.

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I always use my Phantom on Attack mode, since I feel it performs better in stamina battles. Regardless, the difference is minuscule.

Here's a comparative test :



MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB (Stalled) VS Phantom Bull TH170WD (Height - 220, Straight Launch)

Stamina Mode -


Phantom Bull TH170WD - 8/10 (8 OS)
MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB - 2/10 (1 OS, 1 KO)

Nothing different, just that there were a couple of draws, which I redid.

__________________________________________________________

Attack Mode -

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB - 10/10 (8 OS, 2 KOs)
Phantom Bull TH170WD - 0/10

__________________________________________________________

There is a vast difference between the results of each mode.

Also, please note that the above tests were done with a Light Launcher 2, since my Beylauncher L/R's string broke.

Relic did mention something to me about having a particularly light duo that was not great for defense but did work well for stamina, better than his current one.

Yeah. I exchanged it for the heavier one. But I'll try borrowing it for a while to get some tests done.


___________

---

Spoiler (Click to View)

Credits :
Signature : Focus
Avatar : N0body (No pun intended)

Wobbler vs. wobbler, eh?
So, were those draws you talk about, due to simultaneous wobbling of the two?
Or was it something else?
Also, its surprising to see Attack Mode get such results. I assume that Duo would have wobbled wildly in this mode?

---

Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

Relic: Hmm apparently, the phantom modes do make a big difference. That's completely wow.

Anyway, I did th!nk's request, and yes Cancer is MUCH better than Orion on Phantom

MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB vs MF-F Phantom (Stamina) Cancer 230 D
MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB: 15 wins (13 OS , 2 KO)
MF-F Phantom Cancer 230 D: 5 wins (5 OS)
Duo's win rate: 75%

The matches were actually really close this time. Maybe a few rotations difference. I couldn't be bothered to find other Cancers CW for the Duo tonight.

Also, its surprising to see Attack Mode get such results. I assume that Duo would have wobbled wildly in this mode?

?

I guess you're confused here.

Those comparative tests show the difference in the performances between the two of Phantom's modes. Duo was always in Stamina Mode.

---

Spoiler (Click to View)

Credits :
Signature : Focus
Avatar : N0body (No pun intended)

Wait ,.so those comparative mode change tests were of Phantom, and not Duo...
I think I should have read Relic's post better, haha!
The misunderstanding was probably because I misread Relic's post; also because Duo and Phantom have similar mode names; and as this thread is about Duo, I mistakenly assumed that it was Duo that changed modes..

---

Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB Testing
Standard Procedure
Beylauncher Used

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs. MF-F Phantom Gasher TH170D (Height - 170, Mode - Stamina)
Duo: 17 Wins (1 KO, 16 OS)
Phantom: 3 Wins (0 KO, 3 OS)
1 Draw, Redone
Duo Win Percentage: 85%

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs. MF-F Phantom Gasher TH170D (Height - 195, Mode - Stamina)
Duo: 16 Wins (0 KO, 16 OS)
Phantom: 4 Wins (0 KO, 4 OS)
2 Draw, Both Redone
Duo Win Percentage: 80 %

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs. MF-F Phantom Gasher TH170D (Height - 220, Mode - Stamina)
Duo: 8 Wins (1 KO, 7 OS)
Phantom: 2 Wins (0 KO, 2 OS)
1 Draw, Redone
Duo Win Percentage: 80%

---

I was bored so i done a quick video... A very, very low quality video... unfortunately, i don't have a HD Camcorder, because i focus more on buying Beys and other more important things.

My voice isn't really like this in real life, this camera makes my voice sound really weird and croaky.

The one loss of Duo Aquario was when Phantom Cancer was scraping/wobbling, when it was about to lose, but it scraped and hit Duo causing it to 'tumble' and lose. Also, i am using my normal Beylauncher here because my LR has started too make the clicking sound, and i am tired too fix it now.

---

Currently #15 in the World! :E

The OP has been updated to accommodate the new results. Relic's, Primal's, Ozerec's, BeyHyperKiLLer's. Thank you all for contributing.

We've done quite a fair bit of tests vs high tracks stamina. Maybe we could test against mid & low tracks stamina guys, and other types as well.

Another thing is when you guys test against Attack types. Make sure to treat it as if it was a tournament, which means, NO re-launches. Count all the bad launches and self KOs to create the 'fair' atmosphere, which leads to a 'fair' result. Let's face it, it's not like you can do relaunches for bad launches and self KOs when you play competitively.

Again, thank you all for the tests! Let's keep them coming.

No one counts mislaunches though. We can't do that especially for your combination, that's something to take up with the standard testing procedures. It also means ability has a much, much greater effect...

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

They should.

Imagine this: A person tests an opponent's combo against his attack combo. He has maybe half rounds of bad launches. Redo them every time, and after redoing them a few times, he gets a good 90% win rate. He then takes his attack combo to a tournament, being confident and all that it will beat the combo he tested it against. History repeats itself. Few bad launches on his part again, costing him the match. His opponent still wins at the end. Is his attack combo good? Maybe because of his own skills. It still doesn't change the fact that he lost in the end though.

I want a combo that appeals to the masses. Tiers and skills taken into account. It means, veterans and fresh beybladers can still take this combo to a tournament and still given a chance to win. I can guarantee that even with Flash and VariAres floating around, and they've been doing exceptionally well for some time, players still aren't comfortable in using them in tournaments, even when in tests, it shows great results. Why is that? Because we spoil ourselves with re-launches in attack types. It's not a fair system. Relaunches only brings forth a combo's true potential in an ideal world, not in reality.

No, no, I completely agree, but it's just we can't start doing it here, it needs to become standard practice, and, perhaps, there is a less skill-intensive method of doing it.

Ideally, you *should* be able to launch an attacker perfectly every time. Attack testing is kind of a "worst case scenario" for opponents, what they "could" do to you if they were truly capable.

I will try to do some tests to your specifications there once I have a primed R2F and am less rusty, right now mine is far too wild, I got about 5 self-KO's in that testing, perhaps more, perhaps less.


The real concern is that it brings "skill" too far into things, I'm not really sure how to counter that so that everyone can test fairly. It also allows for manipulation of results, consciously or sub-consciously, when testing combos against attackers.
Basically, if I were testing the MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170WF combo again, I would still do so making sure I shot the attacker perfectly every time, because it is entirely possible to go to a tourney and face someone who will launch perfectly every time.

Furthermore, it is very different launching at the same time as another person, than it is against a pre-launched combo. We can't account for that either, but we do assume "the worst".

Perhaps for testing attackers we should count mislaunches, but I personally think when testing a combo fairly, we shouldn't be relying on "opponent mislaunch" as a factor against opponents using attack, because it's not something you can afford to rely on in a tournament situation, unless you can bend the odds of it happening to your advantage.

Don't get me wrong, I still don't think it's fair to not count mislaunches, but it's hard to count them and be fair too.

Perhaps we should discuss this in a new thread over in the advanced forum or somewhere else (that way it might actually get discussed by more people than you, me, dan, shaba, hazel and arupaeo).

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

No, no, I completely agree, but it's just we can't start doing it here, it needs to become standard practice, and, perhaps, there is a less skill-intensive method of doing it.

- I agree that I should perhaps follow the standard practice. Under normal conditions, I do. However, this is a special case in which, I'm willing to gather ALL and ANY possible data, controversial as some maybe, without dismissing a single result, and take the time to compile them as a final percentage in the end. By playing fair, I expect others to do the same as well. I have noticed that under the Stamina summary, it gives a somewhat consistent percentage already, which ranges in 74-77 % range, and most likely it will remain in that range as more results are compiled, which is actually less than my 84% range from my own extensive tests, this is a good thing. It shows that WBO members are critical of tests and I'd like to present the summary in a completely non-biased way.

-As for the 'less skill-intensive' method, I disagree. Using attack types take skills. Everyone's skill levels differ from one another. In order to find that out is by treating tests as we would in a competitive environment. This method would gather results fairly from the less-skilled to the more-skilled bladers, which in the end averages things out.

Perhaps for testing attackers we should count mislaunches, but I personally think when testing a combo fairly, we shouldn't be relying on "opponent mislaunch" as a factor against opponents using attack, because it's not something you can afford to rely on in a tournament situation, unless you can bend the odds of it happening to your advantage.

Well, yes and no. Yes in a sense that we should not rely on "opponent mislaunch". No in a sense that no matter what, mislaunch is still a variable that is fully evident in tournaments. People do smack-talks, and taunt as well hoping for bad launches. It all comes down to nerve. In a controlled testing environment, nerve doesn't exist, hence, we should count mislaunches.

It's still all a matter of balancing it and making it fair and equivalent, though.

The problem with the skill averaging out is that we simply don't get enough tests for that to happen.

In any case, I like to be prepared for an opponent who will launch perfectly 100% of the time, while also being aware of the frailties of my own launching. It may perhaps be more useful to not count mislaunches, but make clear that people must interpret the results with that in mind, which is basically what I already do.

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

In any case, I like to be prepared for an opponent who will launch perfectly 100% of the time, while also being aware of the frailties of my own launching. It may perhaps be more useful to not count mislaunches, but make clear that people must interpret the results with that in mind, which is basically what I already do.

Yep, well said.

In any case, feel free to start a thread in Adv. Forum or maybe in the 'Posting Test Result' thread. I actually prefer the latter, we could get the general opinion from other members about this.

I can't help but notice, you gave me the credit of doing the tests against Scythe Kronos BD145 EDS, unfortunately, those tests weren't mine.

However, I done some defense tests, but i only have one Duo so i had to use Death:

Standard Procedure:

Spoiler (Click to View)

• MFB Attack Stadium
  
• Beylauncher L/R
  
• 3 Segment Launcher Grip
  
• Launching Alternated

MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB (Used) vs. MF-H Death Aquario BD145 CS (Calm)

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB: 20 Wins (20 OS)
MF-H Death Aquario BD145 CS: Wins

Duo win percentage: 100%

MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB (Used) vs. MF-H Death Aquario BD145 RDF (MINT)

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB: 17 Wins (17 OS)
MF-H Death Aquario BD145 RDF: 3 Wins (3 KO)

Duo win percentage: 85%

---

Currently #15 in the World! :E

I can't help but notice, you gave me the credit of doing the tests against Scythe Kronos BD145 EDS, unfortunately, those tests weren't mine.

Those are mine actually. My mistake, I fixed it. I added your defense tests as well. Thank you for those.

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs. MF-H Variares R14RF

Duo: 6 Wins (0 KO, 6 OS)
Variares: 14 Wins (14 KO, 0 OS)
1 Draw, Redone
Duo Win Percentage: 30%

Redid the tests because, like I said, I thought I could do better now, and I was right
So can you please update the OP to make this the Variares test, since mine from before is outdated.

---

You're using CS?

---

Currently #15 in the World! :E

Lol, my bad.
It wasn't really CS, I edited and corrected it.
To used to that BD145CS

---

Uwik, this is my results of testing your combo against Stamina:
Using WBO Standard Procedure
MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs MF-L Duo Bull TH170D
Duo Aquario - 17/20 (all OS)
Duo Bull - 3/20 (all OS)

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs Phantom Orion B : D
Duo Aquario - 10/20
Phantom Orion - 10/20

Against attack:
MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs MF-H Flash Sagittario II GB145R2F
Duo Aquario - 9/20
Flash Sagittario - 11/20

---

(click 'LIKE' on the top)