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MF-M Duo Cygnus 230 MB

Apr. 04, 2012  6:59 AM
 
The idea behind this is that it's a somewhat heavy stamina combination with the added 'wobbling' effect. The whole set up is ironic. If you look at it, it's supposed to be imbalanced, which in fact is true, but at the same time, this imbalance trait is the one that causes it to wobble and tilt heavily and grinds the opponent to submission. It's able to tilt extremely low, barely centimeters off the stadium, and regain its balance when hit.

Launching techniques: It's quite important to launch this combo aggressively. The key point would be the MB. A worn MB will provide the much needed movement around the stadium, be it stalling or flower pattern. Do remember to prime your MB first, much like you prime your RF and CS. An aggressive MB is better than a docile one for this case.

[Image: Duogram1.png]

WBO Tournament Achievements: (Click to View)

RESULTS IN BB-10 BeyStadium Attack Type: All used Standard Procedure. (Click to View)

RESULTS IN BBG-04 Zero G Stadium Attack Type: All used Standard Procedure. (Click to View)

I do require that all tests' submissions count all self KOs and mislaunches as losses to mimic competitive environment. Thank you.
Apr. 04, 2012  7:06 AM
 
Yeah, this combination looks like an absolute beast...I'm certainly looking forward to the rest of your tests to see how beaster combination is.

I actually did an Attack test against this a little while back when Primal posted a video of this combo on YouTube (he did give you credit).

MF-H Variares R145RF vs. MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB
Standard Procedure
Near Mint RF

Variares: 11 Wins (11 KO, 0 SO)
Duo: 9 Wins ( 0 KO, 9 OS)
1 Draw, Redone

I would actually be able to get even more wins than this with Variares now, since I've progressed with Attack types since that test.
I can't do tests right now though, since it is VERY late here, but I'll try to do an updated test later today (since it's the morning technically Cute ).
Apr. 04, 2012  7:10 AM
 
That's great. I'll add your tests onto the OP.
Apr. 04, 2012  7:15 AM
 
Glad to help, dude.
Also, I noticed this:

(Apr. 04, 2012  6:59 AM)Uwik Wrote: MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB vs. MF-H Phantom Orion TH220 CS
MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB: 18 wins (20 OS, 2 KOs)
MF-H Phantom Orion TH220 CS: 0 win
Duo win percentage: 100%
You mixed up your 18 and 20 I assume.
Apr. 04, 2012  7:15 AM
 
It's a solid combo but that's awful low against Vari.

Give me a few minutes to make an initial post about my new flash and I'll try to do you some tests.
Apr. 04, 2012  7:19 AM
 
Ozerec: Thanks, fixed it. That's what happens with copy/paste. Too many numbers to look at my notes and type it up.

@th!nk: That's great!
Apr. 04, 2012  8:42 AM
 
Did some stamina tests, as I promised I would ages ago, to back up what I said about my phantom killing this.

Weights (Calibrated scale): Phantom: 42.36g
Duo: 41.93g
1v1 Stamina Test: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Duo-Uran...#pid855909
(Phantom murders Duo, basically).

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs MF-F Phantom Cancer 230D
MB near mint, D near mint, MF-F because it worked well on the attack combo for its stamina so eh, why not.

Alternating Launches, Phantom launched first R1. Duo launched to get as close to TSing as possible, but it's MB, not rubber.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
All came down to who had the best balance at the end of the match. Sadly for Duo, it usually didn't, and got caught under phantom, and ground into the floor.

Results
Phantom: 15/20 (All OS): 75%
Duo: 5/20 (All OS): 25%
Not bad though, did better than it did in ad145wd vs ad145wd. Still.


I also managed to get my R2F under control and found a Flash combo that I love.

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs MF-H Flash Escolpio S130R2F
Duo the same as before. R2F is near mint, worn in so it can actually be kept in the stadium. Escolpio is a personal favourite for doing damage to taller opponents (I want to try Quetz too).

Won't list the detailed results this time, these are very simple. Duo won R3 through wall saves. Though, in round 14, Duo got no less than 6 wall saves and was still KO'd, and in R19 it got a wall and was still thrown out.

Results
Flash: 19/20 (all KO): 95%
Duo: 1/20 (OS): 5%


Don't get me wrong, this is a great combo, but yeah, it still won't beat a good phantom or a great attacker.
Apr. 04, 2012  9:01 AM
 
That's really strange for Phantom 230 D. Anyway, I'll add both results to the OP as well.
Apr. 04, 2012  9:18 AM
 
I know, I even tried different MB's on Duo to check afterwards but using an older MB made no difference, and it's the same result I always get.
Oh yeah, and they were all in sensible modes, Phantom and Duo in Stamina, Flash in Attack.

I might do some TH220D stuff with my phantom vs this too if I feel up to it. Should be interesting to see, given phantom usually won by having duo under it towards the end of the battle. That said, it might also knock Duo off balance even more.
Apr. 04, 2012  9:25 AM
 
First off, thanks for doing the tests. I want this combo to be as impartially tested as possible by numerous people. That includes different weights or hax super MWs or different launch styles, or whatever.

I am however, extremely curious about your MF-F Phantom Cancer 230 D test. It can't be because of the MF-F or the Cancer CW. If I have time, I'll redo this personally with that very specific combo and YouTube it. Probably just 5 simple rounds, since stamina battles videos can get long.

Please do the TH220 D if you have the time as well.

In the end, when enough data has been collected by numerous testers, I will tally up all the results and give an overall win percentage when faced against Stamina / Defense / Attack / Balance. It should give an overview on the performance of this combo.

PS: The result against Attack is as expected really. Like I said, Attack kills it.
Apr. 04, 2012  9:31 AM
 
Phantom does the same thing with a normal face or MF-F. Haven't tried other faces, IIRC it also wins with Aquario.

And yeah, I know my results are unusual compared to what I've heard/seen of others. It could be that my Duo has poorer than average survival, given I did better against Phantom with Death in Stamina battles, but then my Duo easily beats Death and Scythe when used against them, so I don't know.
That said, the results I posted are extremely consistent with my experiences every time I've done that matchup.

I will also try to do some tests with Phantom on AD145WD, which, IIRC, duo beats very handily, seeing as this combo is great against lower opponents.
Apr. 04, 2012  9:42 AM
 
I will definitely do some testing, right now. So you prefer 230 over TH170 as well? Same here.
Apr. 04, 2012  10:00 AM
 
230 is preferred over TH170 by basically everyone in WBBA Countries.

I'm totally unconvinced/see the opposite in basically everything except this customization where the extra height makes sense and height changing isn't useful.

Doing TH220 tests now.
Apr. 04, 2012  10:06 AM
 
(Apr. 04, 2012  10:00 AM)th!nk Wrote: 230 is preferred over TH170 by basically everyone in WBBA Countries.

I'm totally unconvinced/see the opposite in all but perhaps this customisation.

Hahahaha, touche. One's preference is actually dictated by his/her local meta. If you sway too far from it, it can be really bad or really good.
Apr. 04, 2012  10:21 AM
 
MB may have found a good use again then but I think it could only work with good molds of Duo(which are pretty impossible to beat in stamina battles) since MB blows on everything else.
Apr. 04, 2012  10:35 AM
 
Here are the tests, sorry i took so long to post them.

Standard Procedure:
Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB (MINT) vs. MF-H Phantom Cancer TH170 D (MINT)
170:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo win percentage: 100%

195:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo win percentage: 100%

220:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo Win Percentage: 60%


MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB (Near MINT) vs. MF-H Phantom Cancer TH170 CS (Calm)
170:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo win percentage: 100%

195:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo win percentage: 100%

220:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo Win Percentage: 90%

MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB (Near MINT) vs. Phantom Cancer AD145 WD (MINT)

Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo win percentage: 100%


MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB (Used) vs. MF-H Phantom Cancer 230 CS (Calm)

Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo win percentage: 65%

MF-H Phantom Cancer 230 D (MINT) vs. MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB (Used)

Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo win percentage: 80%

Apr. 04, 2012  10:46 AM
 
Why did you put an MF-H on a stamina combo? In battles as close as these that has a huge impact...

Ultra: Just because MB "blows" (it doesn't, it's got decent stamina and works decently for defense too) on other things doesn't mean this combination can't be good because it uses it. Last I checked, certain parts work better together: D isn't as good as WD on AD145/85 etc, but it's better on 230 and TH170.
MB is the lynchpin of the combination as a whole. Uwik's tests are very accurate, and IIRC his Phantom usually beats his Duo on the same track/tip etc, soooo...


Anyway, TH220 tests:

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs MF-F Phantom Cancer TH220D
Same parts as last time except for TH170. Same launch, everything.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Phantom: 13/20 (12 OS, 1KO) = 65%
Duo: 7/20 (6OS, 1KO) = 35%

Slightly better.

As there were 2 KO's, for the sake of comparing 230 and TH220 or whatever against this, I did two more rounds.

KO Compensation Rounds.
Duo Launches first in both, as the KO's occurred in even-numbered rounds:
1. POS
2. POS
Taking these:
Phantom: 14/20 = 70%
Duo 6/20 = 30%

Very small difference given the sample size, and I'll take 5% off this matchup for the huge adaptability benefit TH170 gives.
Apr. 04, 2012  10:54 AM
 
Well, i normally use MF-H's on stamina types, because i find it doesn't make too much of a difference stamina-wise, and it prevents being KOed a bit more. But i can do the tests again without MF-H's if you want.
Apr. 04, 2012  10:56 AM
 
Just the ones with Phantom TH220D and 230D, if you would. You're again not the only person who uses Metal Faces on stamina types. I didn't get many KO's, though I notice you did... But yeah, try it without, or perhaps better, use MF-F, seeing as it seems to work real nice with Phantom Cancer.

Oh, and not to be a bother, but perhaps a calibration test of your phantom vs your duo with the same parts (both cancer ad145WD perhaps?) would be helpful with interpreting these results. Smile
Apr. 04, 2012  11:14 AM
 
Here are the tests without MF-H, i'm still getting some KO's, but it's probably because when i do testing i launch at like 100%, so i tried to launch like a tiny bit weaker for both, say 95%.

MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB (Used) vs. Phantom Cancer TH220 D (Near MINT)

220:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo Win Percentage: 60%


MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB (Used) vs. Phantom Cancer 230 D (Near MINT)

Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo win percentage: 55%

It was basically whoever was launched first, won, apart from the KO's, of course.


EDIT: Only saw your edit once i had posted, will do those tests now. I will do with Aquario instead of Cancer, i only have one Cancer, but two Aquario's. Also i've done those tests already, but i didn't record, however i know my Phantom is better than my Duo. I don't have scales, so i can't weigh.
Apr. 04, 2012  11:18 AM
 
Wow, that was fast. Much appreciated guys! Let's keep the ball rolling. I will add them all onto the OP, unfortunately, I'm on a mobile device now, so it's a bit difficult to edit. Be patient.

@ th!nk : There's no need to redo the KO compensation. It's probably best to leave it as it is, and keep it as fair as possible. Smile
Apr. 04, 2012  11:29 AM
 
Oh, the KO compensation part was more personal interest, for comparing the stamina of 230 and TH220 against this combination, haha, seeing as it was basically a stamina contest. You can leave those out of the OP Tongue_out

@Beyhyperkiller: hah, I launch about as hard as I can too, though I'm rusty right now, so used to ripcord launchers from all my plastics/HMS work, haha. What's the movement on your MB like?
And thanks for those tests. Smile
Apr. 04, 2012  11:33 AM
 
Here are the tests Th!nk, weird, when i done these tests before Phantom beat Duo most of the time, now its vice-versa. Both WD's were MINT and all parts (Except Duo and Phantom) were swapped at round 10.

Duo Aquario AD145 WD (MINT) vs. Phantom Aquario AD145 WD (MINT)

Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo win percentage: 90%

I think i know why my Phantom beat Duo before, Phantom had Cancer and Duo had Aquario, so obviously CW's really do make quite a difference in pure Stamina tests.

(Apr. 04, 2012  11:29 AM)th!nk Wrote: @Beyhyperkiller: hah, I launch about as hard as I can too, though I'm rusty right now, so used to ripcord launchers from all my plastics/HMS work, haha. What's the movement on your MB like?
And thanks for those tests. Smile
Well, it was MINT, before the first tests. When my MB is on MF-H Duo Aquario 230, it starts in the middle, and when it gets hit, it does a quick circle about 4-5 CM away from the tornado ridge and then it returns to the middle again.
Apr. 04, 2012  11:46 AM
 
Yeah, I think Aquario is really terrible on phantom. If you get time some time (I don't want to push you any more right now, you've done a huge amount of testing and I know it's hard), do them with cancer on Phantom.. Even 10 rounds or something.
Apr. 04, 2012  11:58 AM
 
No probs, i'll do the tests, i'm a kid, i don't get tired of playing. LOL. XD

Again WD's switched at round 5.

Duo Aquario AD145 WD (Near MINT) vs. Phantom Cancer AD145 WD (Near MINT)

Spoiler (Click to View)
Duo win percentage: 20%

I seriously need to post these in the CW's thread (Unless it's in the advanced forum, which i think it is). Cancer on Phantom makes the biggest difference, Cancer is definitely the best CW for Phantom.
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