I'll link your tests there, don't worry. You know even if it lost all of another 10 rounds, the overall win % still be 4 times better than with aquario lol? So that seems more than notable to me, in both that thread and the competitive combinations thread.

Cancer is an awesome CW on most things but it is just incredible on phantom (much like scythe on kronos). Either that or Aquario stinks, haha.

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Thanks! I don't think it's because of Aquario, i think most CW's on Phantom would get the same result, it's just because Cancer is awesome on Phantom. IMO Cancer is the best CW for stamina all round, but i have only just noticed it.

Back on topic, i'll try this out next tourney, although i will probably use deception first, just to make sure my opponent isn't using anything too strong, only because it will be my first time using it competitively. XD

---

Currently #15 in the World! :E

Alright, I've updated the OP to accommodate all the results. Thanks guys, now if someone would do some battles vs Defense (redundant as it may seem), it'd be excellent.

I'll add some more from my notes later tonight.

Cygnus is the only other thing I've heard people say seems really good on Phantom, so I do want to try that, just holding out for the sonokong release before I stock up on stuff like that.

I might do 10 rounds or so of MF-F Phantom Cancer 230D vs MF-H Duo Cancer 230D if I get time.

But yeah, back to the topic, I might use this at a tournament (it would do really well in a lot of metagames), but then my Duo is pretty much dedicated to defense and I have my phantom for stamina, haha.

That said, this does have a pretty cool advantage, don't let the flash results fool you (Flash is basically "Dan with Variares" for everyone, and I don't think there are many things that could beat it if they had to use 230), this is significantly harder to KO than a regular stamina combination, as well as, from what I've seen, doing just as well as, if not better than, a regular Duo stamina combo.

As for battles against defense, I'll try some stuff after dinner, hopefully get something formal done. Curious to see how this does against BD145RF defense, as well as perhaps an aggro RDF. Only way defense is beating this is with KO's from what I've seen.

It's probably for everyone to keep in mind that in the tests I'm choosing I am being somewhat "mean" by choosing things I am pretty sure will beat this. Uwik's results are generally more representative of this combination's capabilities. You'll note I've suggested putting it on the competitive combo's list based on everything I've seen in testing, videos, personal use, and tournament performance. It really is one of the best Duo combinations

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Okay maybe blows was a bit strong. It does have decent stamina but has never had any use in stamina combos and was only really ever usable in Basalt BD145MB. Anyway since we've got three testers with similar results it seems very good to me.

---

As for battles against defense, I'll try some stuff after dinner, hopefully get something formal done. Curious to see how this does against BD145RF defense, as well as perhaps an aggro RDF. Only way defense is beating this is with KO's from what I've seen.

Yo, I'll still put BD145 RF under 'attack'. FYI. Also, it doesn't have to be 20 full rounds of formal tests (although preferred). I will tally all the rounds up to a grand total anyway, so every little bits help. Cheers.

You'll note I've suggested putting it on the competitive combo's list based on everything I've seen in testing, videos, personal use, and tournament performance. It really is one of the best Duo combinations

Could you give me the link to the videos, please? I would really like to see this combo in videos and in tournament play.

---

Currently #15 in the World! :E

Uwik can probably find them easier, he linked me to most of them, haha.

Uwik: With diablo, yes, perhaps, but Duo/Death, no. They're not effective against the things attack aims to beat, and it does not aim to beat those things either, and therefore is not attack. Aims are closer to defense. Plus, even to categorise Diablo DB145RF as attack is iffy, it doesn't move anywhere near fast enough to be an effective attack setup, and is really more useful for beating attack (though Flash still does okay-ish, about 45% iirc) and then to some extent stamina. I'm not saying Flash BD145RF would be defense, though, haha.

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

It's in this somewhere...

Below is Primal's video. Not really testings, but just a fun review. I had no idea this was made, I hope he doesn't mind that I posted it here.

Haven't done the BD145RF tests yet (Also, will have to use Death DB145RF, only got one Duo for now), but this CW test was very interesting/relevant so I went the full 20 rounds on it.

MF-H Duo Cancer 230MB vs MF-F Phantom Cancer 230D
Just to see if changing the CW helps this at all. Same conditions/parts as before other than the CW on Duo.

Detailed Results (Click to View)

1. POS
2. DKO
3. POS
4. POS
5. DOS
6. DOS
7. DOS (just)
8. DOS
9. DOS
10. POS
11. POS
12. POS
13. POS
14. DOS
15. DOS
16. POS
17. POS
18. DOS (just)
19. POS
20. POS
Draws:

Results
Phantom: 11/20 (all OS) = 55%
Duo: 9/20 (8OS, 1KO) = 45%

So yeah that's a pretty big improvement. Might try some other stamina stuff (as well as doing the defense stuff) when I have the energy, but tired atm.

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

That's an interesting discovery. For the benefit of a doubt, I'll change this thread into MF-H Duo __ 230 MB. I'm personally looking forward to some Cygnus and Leone.

Uwik: No need to worry, I'm not against you posting it. Demon came up with the troll idea, haha.

Also, now that I've got Flash, I can test this against it (no Escolpio/Quetz, so I'll use Jupiter or something on Flash). My other MF-H broke, so would MF-M/L be okay on Flash?

---

Wrath|My YouTube Channel|My Selling Thread|My Facebook Page

Any tests are appreciated, as long as it's against Top Tier Parts.

Aw finally this combo has its own thread!
Nice tests those, Uwik!
Its quite nice to see a wobbler in the game. And I am actually happy that my logic (read- common sense ) was correct! MB actually enhanced the wobbling properties of the combo!

Well, certain tests by other members have shown this to get bad win rates, but everyone did claim it to be a nice combo. So certainly it has potential, but it is failing to do 'something' there...

Thanks for the tests everyone!

---

Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

Primal: Just use a CW that doesn't get in the way of the thin part and is thicker at the ends where Flash is thick and doesn't jut out in front of it's leading edge too much.

Uwik: FWIW I never found Leone any good, but yeah.

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Added a couple of vs Defense tests, and a preliminary summary on the OP.

Alright, I finally got some time to do some tests today, so here they are :

Weights :
Phantom : 45.4 Grams
Duo : 43.9 Grams


✔ Standard Procedure
✔ 20 Rounds
✔ Phantom always launched first


MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB (Stalled) V/S Phantom Bull TH170WD (Height - 220, Straight Launch, Stamina Mode)


Phantom Bull TH170WD - 17 Wins (16 OS, 1 lucky KO)
MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB - 3 Wins ( 2 KOs, 1 OS)

Duo's win rate : 15 %
__________________________

Phantom Bull TH170WD out-spins MF-H Duo Aquario just by a few rotations. Other than that, there is really nothing much to it.

I'll try getting some more tests done soon!

---

Spoiler (Click to View)

Credits :
Signature : Focus
Avatar : N0body (No pun intended)

Weights :
Phantom : 45.4 Grams
Duo : 45.9 Grams

These can't be right.

Weights :
Phantom : 45.4 Grams
Duo : 45.9 Grams

These can't be right.

Whoops, Typo.
Duo is 43.9 Grams.

Phantom's weight is correct though.

---

Spoiler (Click to View)

Credits :
Signature : Focus
Avatar : N0body (No pun intended)

Does your phantom normally outspin your Duo?

BTW, Uwik, I don't think those summary calcs are going to be that accurate, given not many tests are being done of the things this absolutely dominates, haha.

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

@th!nk: Yes I know, hence "preliminary'

Relic: I'm uploading a YouTube as I type for your result and setup. A quick match. 5-0 Duo wins. All 3 launches were used. Slide shoot / Stall / Centered. 3 OS and 2 KO. It should be up in half an hour.

Here is some testing against Flash:

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs MF-L Flash Jupiter S130R2F
Standard Procedure
Duo launched first
Duo centered; Flash slide shot

Duo: 6 wins (5 OS 1 KO)
Flash: 14 wins (All KO)
Duo win %: 30%

---

Wrath|My YouTube Channel|My Selling Thread|My Facebook Page

MF-L has the plastic core.

Can you get a side-on pic of jupiter on Flash? I don't have one myself, but yeah, curious if that had an effect (given this combo is one of the sorts of things I like escolpio against )

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

@th!nk: Yes I know, hence "preliminary'

Relic: I'm uploading a YouTube as I type for your result and setup. A quick match. 5-0 Duo wins. All 3 launches were used. Slide shoot / Stall / Centered. 3 OS and 2 KO. It should be up in half an hour.

How close were the matches ? Like, does Duo out-spin Phantom by a lot of rotations ?
And also, what are your Phantom and Duo's weights ?


@Th!nk : The matches between most Phantom and Duo combo's are really really close. But Phantom usually gets a few more rotations and out-spins Duo.

---

Spoiler (Click to View)

Credits :
Signature : Focus
Avatar : N0body (No pun intended)

This video is for Relic's setup, which I got a completely different result.

MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB vs Phantom Bull TH220 WD
MF-H Duo Aquario 230 MB: 5 wins (3 OS , 2 KO)
Phantom Bull TH220 WD: 0 win
Duo's win rate: 100%

Duo: 41.92 gr
Phantom: 43.84 gr