It's ridiculous to say that LRF is good for defense. I don't like when you guys say stuff like this because then people who don't know any better will believe you.

Also, I agree with what Kai-V said about LRF.

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I'll try my best, i'm very sorry if this doesn't sound clear.

L-Drago with movement speed provides a great pushing force as opposing spins make contact (clock mechagnism). Therefore the push collision is greater but the angular velocity collision is much lesser. A normally worn LRF is very slightly larger in the centre (RS) due to the reasons I posted before. As LT is reduced in angular velocity, so does the movement speed (this is not directly proportional, the movement speed decelerates at a faster rate than the angular velocity does so) and that's where the very low collision happens. Through low collision now ((lacking of movement speed, equalised angular velocity(clockwork neutral collision?)) LRF differs to RF because of the majority of beys being Right spin, such collisions can happen. The shape of L-Drago on high speed movement and same angular velocity means

As BladeStorm extremely early on said "Just use the same combo, but with an RS" which he later explained, the plastic collision, the same spin direction and grip. The plastic heads of L-Drago do not make contact, they are shielded by BD145.

The push factor allows left Gravity to "destabalise" many combo's than Right spin Gravity can not do.

I'll show a very rough diagram of both spins colliding when both variables are kept constant and perhaps "cheating" an earth by using left spin on Earth by pressing it onto the stadium.

Right v Right
Left v Right
Right v Left
Earths to be used.

dei You didn't mention any contact at first, you said the combo that Earth KOed Bluezee with, then you describe what happened with scores then saying Self-KO. Isn't Self-KO meaning you make no contact to the opposing bey and fly out of the stadium?

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Just to clarify, LRF isn't really traditionally defensivee if launched at full power, obviously, but what people are saying is that by launching it weaker, you can have it stay relatively centre-bound, like a defence tip. I've seen this myself when I had a launcher break during launch, the resulting weak launch left the beyblade with LRF gyrating in the centre of the stadium. That said, I cannot vouch for the stamina at all, I stopped it quickly after the launch.

Maybe we shouldn't use "defensive", and instead refer to the concept of "anti-Meta" or RF defense (MF-H Earth Bull 85RF etc). There was a discussion on RF defence in the advanced forum, if I recall correctly? Maybe that is somewht relevant, though it referred to worn RF's, not LRF. Either way, both are somewhat similar, THOUGH AS I SAID, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A WEAK LAUNCH, LETTING IT STAY IN THE CENTRE.

Also, Dei, MF-H Earth Bull UW145D/SD? I'd think that'd be KO'd... Bluezee, could you shed some light on that?

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Hey, did you take physics yet or are you just making up words? Unless angular velocity is referring to banking, it's misused and it seems to be used frequently in your statements. If you are using the term by its correct definition, then you'd know that "angular velocity" does not directly correlate with the Bey's actual velocity - only its path.

Control_, I just told you I'm not referring to one battle, which you seem to be stuck on...

If you launch it weak enough to stay in the center it will either get knocked out or stop spinning soon after.

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Cye doesn't seem to care how little we launch it, since I have posted that several times, he has breezed past reading it and has replied to me the same way. It is NOT agressive, it is labelled "rubber" but there are Rubber sharps and the worn outer perimeters of LRF means the inner centre is poked out more. This must be legal, it's just regular wearing and LRF/R2F do it mostly even if incredibly hard to see. You can do 80% and if you make a hard contact "hit and stop effect" (mentioned tens of times). By "defensive" I do not mean it will withstand Vulcans, I have been saying it can withstand an attacking Lightning Tank through plastic collisions ect. Obviously it won't do the same to some attackers which avoids BD145. This does well on the most part against heavy opponents which forces LT in it's favour to hit and stop.

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Apparently it has enough grip and spin-steal ability to survive. I'm not sure, as I said, but looking down, apparently there's a video.
Also, keep it chill, guys n girls

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

A video has been posted a few pages back, due to a barrage of posts, it has been hidden.

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Apparently it has enough grip and spin-steal ability to survive.

VS another left spin this would fail though, as you can not spin steal VS left spin

performance tips get defence through friction, since the rubber flat series have friction then they do have some defence

i personally think this is now getting offtopic

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Yeah, that's why it doesn't do as well against left spin defense, however, the applications of left spin defence are rather narrow, as they suffer the same issues against right spin beys (like Basalt BD145) the Right Spin defence suffers against Left Spin attack.

I think against left spin attack, it comes down to this combo being heavier, and this is compounded by the rarity of Rubber-Tipped left spin attackers other than other LT's, in the metagame right now, as they're often taken out by other common combo's.

Anyway, I believe this is the video. I'm not sure if it shows the Weak Launch thing (I haven't had time to watch it), but it does demonstrate the spin stealing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLUvQi5WWXU

I think people should watch it in case it answers their questions

The wear on LRF would make a big difference to the spin steal there, obviously. It does show it can spin steal effectively, anyway.


And if you look at the end of those battles, it's exhibiting the defensive characteristics which would occur from a weak launch. The spin stealing would compensate for a lot of the speed difference of the opponent if you launched weak at the start of the battle, methinks. The next question is if you'd have to worry about being KO'd by whatever you're launching weakly against.

That said, do remember that often, BD145's protection and the weight and grip of the bey should protect it from attack types.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Apparently it has enough grip and spin-steal ability to survive.

VS another left spin this would fail though, as you can not spin steal VS left spin

performance tips get defence through friction, since the rubber flat series have friction then they do have some defence

i personally think this is now getting offtopic

We know that, hence the niche counter to it, being left spin Gravity Perseus.

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And, of course, LDD in certain combo's. But as I said (I EDITED MY POST, GO BACK AND CHECK IT IF YOU READ IT A WHILE BACK ), left spin defense is kinda niche, as are most left spin attack combo's with decent grip, as they are beaten handily by a lot of other common combos.

Plus, one again must not forget the defensive properties BD145 brings to the beystadium and/or the table it rests upon despite the fact the instructions say not to. That, the weight of the combo, and the fact that LRF has great grip, means it's harder to KO than opposing left spin attack combo's.

If someone wants to write up a list of what techniques are supposed to be used against which opponents, I think it would do a lot to diffuse the arguments that are going on

I still want to hear what happened with that MF-H Earth Bull UW145D/SD, though

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Just to clarify, LRF isn't really traditionally defensivee if launched at full power, obviously, but what people are saying is that by launching it weaker, you can have it stay relatively centre-bound, like a defence tip. I've seen this myself when I had a launcher break during launch, the resulting weak launch left the beyblade with LRF gyrating in the centre of the stadium. That said, I cannot vouch for the stamina at all, I stopped it quickly after the launch.

Maybe we shouldn't use "defensive", and instead refer to the concept of "anti-Meta" or RF defense (MF-H Earth Bull 85RF etc). There was a discussion on RF defence in the advanced forum, if I recall correctly? Maybe that is somewht relevant, though it referred to worn RF's, not LRF. Either way, both are somewhat similar, THOUGH AS I SAID, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A WEAK LAUNCH, LETTING IT STAY IN THE CENTRE.

Also, Dei, MF-H Earth Bull UW145D/SD? I'd think that'd be KO'd... Bluezee, could you shed some light on that?

Sure thing. Spin-Sonic was using is combo, which I am more than sure he was not ready to share so I don't even know why it was mentioned, and I self-KOed two times. At that time, my LRF was not at its prime and it was bad launching on my behalf. I did not position my launcher the way I usually do. I wanted to match his spin power by being reckless but I could not stay in. Also, there was no MF-H on that combo. On top of that, Spin-Sonic can tell you himself that his combo gets KOed by LT rather often if I shoot correctly. That is his own personal counter and it works quite well when it does stay in and if he positions the wings correctly, I'm a sitting duck. However, this was not the case in this match. I self-KOed on my own terms and the match where I finally hit him after adjusting my launch and ended up in a win on my part. Either way, had I lost that match, we still would have had to do another one so I could have adjusted my launching and kept it consistent after that.

Secondly, Deikailo, when have you ever seen me self-KO any other time? And no disrespect to IKMV because I know all too well how great he is and I appreciate the battles he gives me win or lose but have you forgotten I have been using attackers since the plastic gen? I have more experience in that area. His precision however is to be rivaled.

Lastly, Spin-Sonic's shot is more powerful than mine. With his combo and how he uses its wings, it makes it much harder for me to create a KO if I don't bank and hit him out within the first 8-10 laps.

So Spin Sonic must have used the same combo and knocked you out notable number of times on another occasion then?

Please may I have some feedback on the video - I am the Lightning Tank user trying out all variety of launches as possible.

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So Spin Sonic must have used the same combo and knocked you out notable number of times on another occasion then?

Please may I have some feedback on the video - I am the Lightning Tank user trying out all variety of launches as possible.

No. When his combo wins, it is by OS not KO.

I'll leave important feedback to others, but man, your LT looks the goods.

@ Bluezee, so, it's a launching thing again. Further evidence that this combo is all in the launch. I personally think that is what prevents combo's like this from being overpowered (though the LRF condition is also obviously important).
It might be best to save the attack-experience thing for PM's or something, though, man

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I'll leave important feedback to others, but man, your LT looks the goods.

@ Bluezee, so, it's a launching thing again. Further evidence that this combo is all in the launch. I personally think that is what prevents combo's like this from being overpowered (though the LRF condition is also obviously important).
It might be best to save the attack-experience thing for PM's or something, though, man

You are correct. If I get negative feedback on that, I will edit the post.

I'll say it again. This combo isn't effective at spin stealing. I will also say that launching this
combo weak enough to stay in the center is too weak to withstand a hit from another LT. However, I will also say that vs other attackers this combo has an advantage due to it being bulkier. That doesn't have anything to do with LRF though.

control: Stop being condescending towards me.

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Credit for the avatar and sig go to Nic. THANK YOU!

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Cye, I have to disagree, the video and my experience both show this combo is an effective spin stealer. As does previous experience with left spin attackers. You honestly cannot say it isn't, given the evidence.

Maybe, it's not pure spin stealing but also destabilisation from BD145 or LLD, but it steals spin and manages to outspin opponents. That, by my definition at least, makes it an effective spin stealer.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I'll say it again. This combo isn't effective at spin stealing. I will also say that launching this
combo weak enough to stay in the center is too weak to withstand a hit from another LT. However, I will also say that vs other attackers this combo has an advantage do to it being bulkier. That doesn't have anything to do with LRF though.

control: Stop being condescending towards me.

I'm extremely surprised you feel condescended.

Firstly, have you watched the video?

@Th1NK I have to disagree with you claiming it's an effective spin stealer. All spin equaliser, hence the name equalises spin till the last moment where it decides who wins. What decides who wins is how balanced the Beys are. Wide Defence based Beys tend to be the best at spin equalising, the scraping is delayed due to contact molding the beys and constantly making low-collision contact. BD145LRF is not viable, it does not OS any WD/D and even SD variants yet. It can spin steal many beys but there is a sudden bar to what it can and can not do.

RS/RSF/CS/MB are big competitors and they can be outspun via spinsteal as shown in the video where RS and MB are used on MF-H Libra BD145RS/MB. Off camera me and JJsonickid demonstrated MF-H Basalt BD145RS/CS constantly ending up in draws.

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Don't start talking about the condescension thing, take it to PM's or whatever. This thread is always at risk of being derailed and we all have to keep that in mind when posting.

To stay relevant, I'm re-posting the video, again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLUvQi5WWXU

WATCH IT GUISE, and those who can, give Control_ feedback on how he uses LT in the video That would definitely be relevant to the thread, so yeah

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Just to clarify, LRF isn't really traditionally defensivee if launched at full power, obviously, but what people are saying is that by launching it weaker, you can have it stay relatively centre-bound, like a defence tip. I've seen this myself when I had a launcher break during launch, the resulting weak launch left the beyblade with LRF gyrating in the centre of the stadium. That said, I cannot vouch for the stamina at all, I stopped it quickly after the launch.

Maybe we shouldn't use "defensive", and instead refer to the concept of "anti-Meta" or RF defense (MF-H Earth Bull 85RF etc). There was a discussion on RF defence in the advanced forum, if I recall correctly? Maybe that is somewht relevant, though it referred to worn RF's, not LRF. Either way, both are somewhat similar, THOUGH AS I SAID, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A WEAK LAUNCH, LETTING IT STAY IN THE CENTRE.

Also, Dei, MF-H Earth Bull UW145D/SD? I'd think that'd be KO'd... Bluezee, could you shed some light on that?

Sure thing. Spin-Sonic was using is combo, which I am more than sure he was not ready to share so I don't even know why it was mentioned, and I self-KOed two times. At that time, my LRF was not at its prime and it was bad launching on my behalf. I did not position my launcher the way I usually do. I wanted to match his spin power by being reckless but I could not stay in. Also, there was no MF-H on that combo. On top of that, Spin-Sonic can tell you himself that his combo gets KOed by LT rather often if I shoot correctly. That is his own personal counter and it works quite well when it does stay in and if he positions the wings correctly, I'm a sitting duck. However, this was not the case in this match. I self-KOed on my own terms and the match where I finally hit him after adjusting my launch and ended up in a win on my part. Either way, had I lost that match, we still would have had to do another one so I could have adjusted my launching and kept it consistent after that.

Secondly, Deikailo, when have you ever seen me self-KO any other time? And no disrespect to IKMV because I know all too well how great he is and I appreciate the battles he gives me win or lose but have you forgotten I have been using attackers since the plastic gen? I have more experience in that area. His precision however is to be rivaled.

Lastly, Spin-Sonic's shot is more powerful than mine. With his combo and how he uses its wings, it makes it much harder for me to create a KO if I don't bank and hit him out within the first 8-10 laps.

If Karice wasn't ready to share his combo, then he shouldn't use it at tournaments where everyone can see it? That's like saying I don't want anyone to know what I look like on the internet, yet it's inevitable since you all see me there.

Hey, Bluezee, I've been using attackers since I started playing, but that doesn't mean that years can beat hard work in brief amounts of time.

If I remember correctly, you had two combos in the plastic generation: your spin stealer and AR: Trycutter, BB: Storm Grip. You went back and forth. Up until recently, however, you've used purely stamina in MFB. IKMV has pretty much always experimented with attackers or hybrid attack/stamina since I first saw him play. If you want to argue "I've been ____ since plastics", my shot used to be Godly in plastics, but now I suck. Completely different game.

I don't get to see you play attackers often enough to tell you specific times for self KOs because you're mostly using stamina.

To equalize, you would have to increase and decrease. Only way that can be done is by SPIN-STEALING. Launch LT softly vs. Libra BD145MB at 100% and watch the magic.

I just saw the video. I have to eat every word I said about it not being an effective spin stealer. I'm kind of excited that I'm wrong.
EDIT: Haha. I think I should stay away from the "I was this good back then" argument.

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i watched most of the video, and i am sorry but there was no spin stealing there

if it spin stealed it would of spun much longer then the libra, but it didn't, it only spun for a few seconds after

what it was doing is called spin equalizing, which is a different, but similar, to spin stealing

now you may say that it spun longer then basalt 230 did in that video, but i saw that destabilizing was the key in that battle

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