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MF-H Wing Kerbecs R145RDF (Retesting)

May. 18, 2012  3:40 AM
 
(May. 18, 2012  2:54 AM)Hobbybey Wrote: Those are nice results. How did you come up with this combo?
I was playing around with RDF and saw that it allowed a bey with R145 to actually process at low spin velocities, and remembered that R145 was at one time considered for defense for its weight alone. I then thought about Wing, namely its weight, low recoil, width, and three-sidedness, and put them together with Kerbecs for a heavy, 3-sided bey that utilized the R145RDF combo. I then tested it against Flash (I mean, it's a defensive bey, what else do I test it against?) and I was having a very difficult time KOing it, which is quite different from my past experiences with Flash to say the least. I wrote down the results of 30 tests and posted once I found out the percentage wins. I've been trying to figure out some way to beat Flash for awhile now, which is why I was messing around with defensive combos in the first place.

(May. 18, 2012  3:05 AM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: Ingulit, I saw your explanation about why R145 is better than BD145, but could you do a direct comparisson test with the very first one in the OP?
I will absolutely get on that next. I just finished re-doing my benchmark:

Benchmark
Spoiler (Click to View)

I need to get a new BD145 sometime soon... the threads where the face bolt screw in are getting loose (not enough to effect stability yet, but enough for me to worry about its future).
Sorry to double-post, but (Wow, this forum automatically merges posts if you double post, that's awesome!) I have the results of testing with BD145 and I can safely say I much prefer R145. First, the results:

MF-H Wing Kerbecs BD145RDF vs MF-H Flash Scorpio GB145RF
Spoiler (Click to View)
Wing: 18, 14 OS, 4 KO
Flash: 12, 2 OS, 10 KO
Wing Win Percentage: 60%

The results aren't bad, but not as good as with R145, and that is for one very specific reason: BD145 caused RDF to scrape on its plastic rim A LOT. I'm not just talking once in awhile, I mean all the time. Against Wing with either R145 or BD145, Flash typically only nets a KO if it gets a very clean hit in the first few moments of a fight; otherwise Wing, at least with R145, just sits there and laughs. With BD145, however, if Flash knocks Wing back enough (especially later in the fight, after the point where the R145 combo has basically won), the plastic rim of RDF or the spikes of BD145 scrape the stadium floor like crazy, causing Wing to (forgive the pun) fly all over the stadium rather than staying still. It was so bad that Flash, on RF, outspun Wing with BD145 TWICE. This never happened with R145, and for this reason I would consider using BD145 a completely different (and less effective) combination. Perhaps a different bottom would suit Wing BD145 better than RDF, but thus far R145RDF is the only thing I've tested that has stood up to the might of Flash with any hope.
May. 18, 2012  5:09 AM
 
Ah cool, thanks! That's interesting, and thanks for all the great descriptions in this thread!
May. 18, 2012  7:32 AM
 
I remember posting about a combo similar to this combo a while back (RF instead), but it didn't do all that well (50% max).

Anyway, as for this one... Well, I prefer S130 on Flash and it seems to do noticeably better against this than CH120 and GB145 (which I seriously hate on flash). Would also recommend using a more worn RF on Flash, as I find they do better. Still has to be quick but controllability is huge with Flash.

Don't have any solid testing for you though, I really don't have time at the moment, but yeah, someone should try S130 and a more worn RF against it, as that worked effectively for me.
May. 18, 2012  4:02 PM
 
(May. 17, 2012  11:40 PM)Ingulit Wrote:
(May. 17, 2012  4:07 PM)BeyHyperKiLLer Wrote: Have you tested BD145 instead of R145 on this? I'm just surprised Flash didn't self KO/Get KO'ed.
I understand your concerns, but self-KOs do not happen with this combo because Wing is so wide (and thus the opposing Bey makes more contact with Wing rather than ever hitting R145, which, yes, would cause massive recoil).
No, i am talking about why Flash wasn't KO'ed at least once. I just thought Flash would have been KO'ed. But it doesn't really matter.

May. 18, 2012  5:23 PM
 
(May. 18, 2012  4:02 PM)BeyHyperKiLLer Wrote: No, i am talking about why Flash wasn't KO'ed at least once. I just thought Flash would have been KO'ed.

Well, when I used BD145, Flash got KOed a lot when the RDF scraped and Wing went on the offensive, but against R145 Flash never connected with R145 to the point where it would get KOed. Occasionally Flash would get a good hit but Wing got wall saved and Flash flew out of the stadium, which I noted in my test results [usually it looks like X) Wing KO (Wall Save)].

(May. 18, 2012  7:32 AM)th!nk Wrote: Don't have any solid testing for you though, I really don't have time at the moment, but yeah, someone should try S130 and a more worn RF against it, as that worked effectively for me.

I'm actually using a near-mint RF on Flash, but I have a worn RF I can test with (I'm getting worried it's almost too worn, which is why I didn't use it in the first place). I'll post results with Flash using the worn RF and S130 as soon as I can test them.
May. 18, 2012  5:41 PM
 
That would be good. Speed is still important but yeah, I find a more controllable RF works much better.

I'm also surprised Wing didn't KO Flash, too. When I tried it with my less worn RF that tended to happen a lot, though maybe your launch or your RDF is more passive than my launch/rdf, haha.
May. 18, 2012  9:57 PM
 
Darn!!!!I Love Flash......D: This combo has the power to beat it!NOOOOOOO
May. 18, 2012  10:02 PM
 
I just did a quick 5 rounds (no biggie) but my flash combo one 3/5 times versing this combo so certain flash combos can beat this.

My flash combo is MF-H Flash Bull GB145 RF and sometimes R2F but for these 5 rounds it was RF.
May. 18, 2012  11:28 PM
 
MF-L Flash Orion S130RF vs. MF-H Wing Kerbecs R145RDF
Standard Procedure
Barely Worn RDF
Slightly Worn RF

Flash: 9 Wins (9 KO, 0 OS)
Wing: 1 Wins (1 KO, 0 OS)
Wing Win Percentage: 10%
1 Draw, Redone

Sooooo yeah...
Seven of Flash's nine wins were OHKO, the other two were low speed KOs. The only reason that I see it could have gotten those, were because of the recoil of R145...
Wing's one KO was a wall save that would have been a draw.
May. 18, 2012  11:49 PM
 
@Inguilt What condition is your Flash in? Extremely used, used, near MINT etc?
May. 19, 2012  6:36 AM
 
(May. 18, 2012  11:28 PM)Zancrow Wrote: MF-L Flash Orion S130RF vs. MF-H Wing Kerbecs R145RDF
Standard Procedure
Barely Worn RDF
Slightly Worn RF

Flash: 9 Wins (9 KO, 0 OS)
Wing: 1 Wins (1 KO, 0 OS)
Wing Win Percentage: 10%
1 Draw, Redone

Sooooo yeah...
Seven of Flash's nine wins were OHKO, the other two were low speed KOs. The only reason that I see it could have gotten those, were because of the recoil of R145...
Wing's one KO was a wall save that would have been a draw.

Yikes, I honestly don't know what to say to this, as I'm not getting these types of results at all. How much does your RDF move (mine stays almost perfectly centered, it's very calm), and how much does your Wing rattle? I have two Kerbecs, one from Hasbro and one from TT, and using one of them on Wing makes it rattle while the other is solid (I don't know which is which anymore), and Wing needs to not rattle to perform well defensively from my experience. I'd probably even use a two-sided CW on Wing over Kerbecs if the two-sided one didn't make Wing rattle and Kerbecs did.

As far as R145 causing recoil, I'll have to test against S130. That could very well be the case and I just haven't seen it, and if so that really does wreck any potential this combo had.

(May. 18, 2012  11:49 PM)BeyHyperKiLLer Wrote: @Inguilt What condition is your Flash in? Extremely used, used, near MINT etc?

My Flash is rather new, though I wouldn't say near mint anymore. I use it a lot, anyway.
May. 19, 2012  12:33 PM
 
My RDF either is calm like yours, or is circling around 1/2"-1" away from the center. But the more aggressive Wing is, I'd say the better it will be, since I can't just easily slide shoot for the KO. That is why (IMO at least) MSF Saramanda Saramanda BD145RF is the best we have for Anti-Attack (until I get Brood's results from the same combo with Revizer Revizer). And my Wing + Kerbecs doesn't rattle at all.
May. 19, 2012  12:41 PM
 
I'll post some testing soon, but my experience with this combo is more like Zancrow's than Ingulit's. Even with a Tornado stall Flash was still able to win. I since took apart this combo because I have no use for it. but will test it today and post results.

Little preview of my experience, though I used Bull instead of Kerbecs.
May. 19, 2012  5:51 PM
 
Now im starting to think that Flash can beat this combo. And its not rather the Flashes condition but the RDF's.
May. 19, 2012  5:54 PM
 
To be fair, the difference in launch strength could have been the cause there (especially of the OS), but yeah.
May. 19, 2012  5:56 PM
 
I was expecting this from the start tbh.
May. 19, 2012  6:01 PM
 
Try using GB145. this may disrupt its balance but it might prevent recoil from rare unxpected low attackers and u cud us other tips like rs (cs-even better?)but about new tips maybe not because its countering ATTACK TYPES
May. 19, 2012  6:15 PM
 
Ultra: Yeah to be honest, you're not alone there...

(May. 19, 2012  6:01 PM)GalaxyHart Wrote: Try using GB145. this may disrupt its balance but it might prevent recoil from rare unxpected low attackers and u cud us other tips like rs (cs-even better?)but about new tips maybe not because its countering ATTACK TYPES

Please don't recommend things if you don't know what you're on about... CS is weaker defensively than RS and RDF, which are roughly equal (RS seems to be slightly stronger in pure defense terms). GB145 doesn't protect the underside all that much more than R145 and there are better tracks for that. Plus, given he had issues with BD145 causing RDF to scrape, I don't think the poor chemistry with GB145 would be particularly healthy...
May. 19, 2012  6:22 PM
 
This thing stops Flash in it's tracks! Incredible! I have never seen anything like this combo before(R145RDF)! Tests coming soon for this thread! Smile
May. 19, 2012  6:27 PM
 
Have you seen the tests which are completely opposite to the ones in the first post? Reading the whole thread is a useful excercise.
May. 20, 2012  12:54 AM
 
Yeah, it's looking like my results must be something I'm doing wrong with Flash more than the combo's strength. I'll be keeping the combo in my box and will keep testing it and using it since I have some personal success with mine, but if nobody else is getting my results I think this thread has run its course.

I'm going to keep messing with R145RDF, as there is some definite synergy there that I feel can be still be explored.

A mod can close this thread if they want, and I'll ask to have it re-opened only if this combo actually works against someone else's Flash.
May. 20, 2012  8:46 AM
 
sorry for dat suggestion (sry for spelling) I thought that R145 had too much recoil to be effictive defensivly.It says so in the beywiki that its recoil renders it somewat useless defensivly
May. 20, 2012  3:30 PM
 
Can you try the diablo metal wheel? I would like to see if superior weight to flash can also stop it.
May. 20, 2012  3:35 PM
 
Nah, Diablo has too much recoil. Plus Wing is the main point of this combo, so it wouldn't make much sense to replace it.
May. 20, 2012  3:49 PM
 
It was just an idea.
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