MF-H Basalt Horogium R145RF

Very fun combo, almost impossible NOT to get a perfect flower pattern, good for training new bladers to use attack types, no?

My original tests were skewed, I did them alone, whichever shot first seemed to win most of the time, so that's why... so tomorrow I'll post accurate tests...

MF Phantom Orion BD145CS is tough for Basalt R145RF to deal with, overall its a fun combo, the out of balance thing is fun, has anyone tried is with a M145?? probably overkill, but thats kinda how it 'feels' a trad attack (heavy one) with a 'moved' M145

Okay, 2 person tests

MFH Basalt Horogium R145RF vs MF Blitz Unicorno II S130R2F
Basalt 14-15
Blitz 1-15

Basalt 93%

MFH Basalt Horogium R145RF vs MF VariAres CH120RF
Basalt 15-15
VariAres 0-15

Basalt 100%

MFH Basalt Horogium R145RF vs MF Phantom(Stamina mode) Orion BD145CS
Basalt 0-15
Phantom 15-15

Basalt 0%
(Oct. 20, 2011  5:47 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: Very fun combo, almost impossible NOT to get a perfect flower pattern, good for training new bladers to use attack types, no?

My original tests were skewed, I did them alone, whichever shot first seemed to win most of the time, so that's why... so tomorrow I'll post accurate tests...

MF Phantom Orion BD145CS is tough for Basalt R145RF to deal with, overall its a fun combo, the out of balance thing is fun, has anyone tried is with a M145?? probably overkill, but thats kinda how it 'feels' a trad attack (heavy one) with a 'moved' M145

Okay, 2 person tests

MFH Basalt Horogium R145RF vs MF Blitz Unicorno II S130R2F
Basalt 14-15
Blitz 1-15

Basalt 93%

MFH Basalt Horogium R145RF vs MF VariAres CH120RF
Basalt 15-15
VariAres 0-15

Basalt 100%

MFH Basalt Horogium R145RF vs MF Phantom Orion BD145CS
Basalt 0-15
Phantom 15-15

Basalt 0%

Can you give more details? For example, KO or OS?

All KO victories for each set of tests, except Phantom, those were all OS wins..
Thank you for those results! I'll add them to the OP. It seems the idea that the more attack power of a wheel, the easier it is to win. After all, the idea was to be a combo that could stop attackers (and some stamina combos that were too light for attack). So again, thank you for proving this combo's worth.
VariAres in Right Spin.
Standard Procedure,
Alternative Launches.

MF-H Basalt Horogium R145RF vs. MF VariAres BD145RF:

MF-H Basalt Horogium R145RF: 13 wins (8 KO, 5 OS)
MF VariAres BD145RF: 7 wins (6 KO, 1 OS)

Basalt win rate: 65 %

Definitely some intense battling going on in the stadium. Whichever was launched first usually ended up losing the battle, but Basalt managed to grab the last few wins. This is quite a fun combo to play around with.

did you start vari ares left or right? and this basalt combo is good but I think it will loose against every defense blade and some stamina bldes will win too against him, it´s only to stop attack blades
(Nov. 03, 2011  2:21 PM)Glowfire1 Wrote: did you start vari ares left or right? and this basalt combo is good but I think it will loose against every defense blade and some stamina bldes will win too against him, it´s only to stop attack blades

Most likely left, there's little to no reason to spin it right.
And according to you this combination will loose to Rock Leone 145WB, plus it's been established from the first page that this was meant to deal with attack types anyways...

I personally dislike this combo for two reasons:
1: Attack types are not common at all anywhere outside of Italy.
2: It really doesn't have any "impact" on it like Vari Ares, Blitz, Lightning would.

^ These are obvious statements, but #2 does matter when you do end up playing against the more likely match-up (Stamina and Defence) in a tournament.
It can KO stamina easy enough, defense is an auto lose though... but it straight slays attack types in a way nothing else can...
yep, I got owned by this @ Bey Bash Halloween Horror cause i used Vari Ares, straight 3-0
Yep it EATS VariAres, the only Attack combo that straight counters Basalt R145RF is MF-F Phantom AD145RF (srysly, it can KO Basalt BD145CS/MB, its legit attack) but it pretty much takes out any other recoil based attacker, which is nearly all of them...
It's impossible to use recoil for attack.
I don't understand how that is possible! Wut!?

Guess flippin' Phantom's wheel makes is absolutely devastating.
Added results to OP, thanks Electric!

I think what gibsonmac meant to say is that the high recoil + high smash capability metal wheels are destroyed by this combo. Metal Wheels with high attack capability, but low recoil and protrusions are not as easily defeated (ie Phantom). VariAres has both a stupidly high amount of smash, as we know, and a large amount of recoil from the protrusions that create said smash. Hence, it is absolutely demolished by this combo. It was meant to be anti-attack anyways, so it serves its purpose.
gibsonmac: Recoil attackers were a very niche set of plastic combo's that weren't even any good. Surely one of those college degrees can help you work out the obvious fact that recoil and smash are two very different things? I get tired of explaining this to people who have been misled or whatever.

@Ga: yeah, well grip, momentum and relatively low recoil tends to screw with attack.
Think, recoil and smash are two sides of the same coin... no one needs any sort of degree to realize this.
You can have recoil without having smash. Look at Midnight. Recoil is something attack types DON'T want. Yes, you could consider them related (though it's certainly not any proportional relationship), however to call things "recoil attackers" is very misleading. Recoil is as much related to the properties of the opposing wheel as it is to the wheel itself (for example, even a commonly considered "recoily" wheel such as Beat doesn't show much recoil against something like Burn).

No attacker is based on recoil, because recoil is bad for attackers.
It's fun when a thread becomes an argument over wording semantics.

Oh wait.

I would like to see how well this combo does against Phantom combos in a more legitimate test scenario, though, than someone simply saying it did well. Formal tests, one might say.
Recoil = bad
Smash = good
I don't get it, why is this so hard to understand?

Recoil = bey flies back, losing potential of an even further drive of atk on the opposing bey
Recoil = possible SKO
Recoil = derp

Smash = bey SMASHES the opposing bey out of the stadium
Smash = KO KO KO
Smash = smash

/iprobablyhavethiswrong
Sorry Hazel, but it's something people seem to keep forgetting, which as Rai points out should be blindingly obvious (I've already had to point out the difference a few times in this very topic, for example). I've had to correct it so many times, every time I see it now it's like someone trying to steal my pot of gold.

As for tests, yes, Phantom definitely needs more testing as an attack wheel, and it's probably worth testing against this combo. Gibsonmac, if you do do them, remember to include mold information etc.

Already did phantom tests, read back... unless there is a specific Phantom combo you want tested against this, let me know, I have everything so I can build any combo.
(Nov. 04, 2011  2:33 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: Yep it EATS VariAres, the only Attack combo that straight counters Basalt R145RF is MF-F Phantom AD145RF (srysly, it can KO Basalt BD145CS/MB, its legit attack) but it pretty much takes out any other recoil based attacker, which is nearly all of them...

I see no tests for this, against basalt r145rf or basalt bd145cs (which would be nice to see, albeit best placed in the phantom discussion thread).
every wheel which has smash must have recoil, when not it would have a round wheel without any spikes, attack wheels need recoil but it must be consentrate at only some points how you can see on blitz wheel, if the recoil is to low or it has too much points the wheel doesn´t have enough smash and could be easy kicked
Phantom says hello.
(Nov. 04, 2011  7:35 PM)GaHooleone Wrote: Phantom says hello.
Iceburn
(Nov. 04, 2011  4:07 PM)th!nk Wrote:
(Nov. 04, 2011  2:33 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: Yep it EATS VariAres, the only Attack combo that straight counters Basalt R145RF is MF-F Phantom AD145RF (srysly, it can KO Basalt BD145CS/MB, its legit attack) but it pretty much takes out any other recoil based attacker, which is nearly all of them...

I see no tests for this, against basalt r145rf or basalt bd145cs (which would be nice to see, albeit best placed in the phantom discussion thread).

Well that's where you should probably look for it I'd say...