This is a theory thread for now, but calculations are coming soon. Maybe Beywiki writers can get an idea out of this to help explain a wheel's effectiveness in smash. And perhaps if new releases come out, members will just do a few quick steps and make conclusions on wheels, ultimately saving time. So feel free to click the article...

Spoiler (Click to View)

How to assess a wheel for [side on] smash

Step 1: Drawing
Basic (Wheels with obvious major attack points, e.g Flash)

Example: (Click to View)

1.On the top (or bottom when assessing the underside) view of a wheel, draw a circle from the wheel's axis of rotation to the minimum radius of the wheel.
2.a) Highlight the edges of perimeter that are not covered by the circle (Except for those that won't be used in a particular spin direction). They are the attack points.
2.b) (Optional) Highlight the major attack points with a thicker brush.
3. Draw lines (preferably with different colors) from the axis of rotation to either end of a attack point. Repeat this step for as many attack points.

Advanced - wheels with multiple closely spaced (i.e closer than Flash's) attack points

Example: (Click to View)

1. On the top view of the wheel, link adjacent points with straight lines (red in diagram above). These will be part of the wheel.
2. Draw a circle from the centre from the axis of rotation to the minimum radius.
3.a) Highlight the edges that are not covered by the circle. These are the attack points.
3.b) (Optional) Highlight the major attack points in thicker, or altogether omit the insignificant ones.

Step 2: Assessing the Smash according to Diagram
1.a) The distribution of the attack points around determines the consistency of a wheel's smash. If they are spaced evenly around the perimeter as Flash's are visibly, then it will have consistent smash.
1.b) Flash's attack points are spaced so far apart that they can "sink in" on the opponent, meaning its consistency would be close to 100%.
2.a)The difference of the green radius and the blue radius (in the diagram of Flash) determines the power of the smash. Flash has a ratio that is significantly higher than 1 (0 smash), so it has outstanding power (Assuming the mass powering the attack point is great enough to reduce any form of recoil).
2.b) Usually if the green radius is high (in the case of Bahamdia), the smash have greater force than if it was small, because points further out from the axis of rotation move faster, therefore the kinetic energy pushes the opponent back further.
3. In special circumstances (which is pretty much the case with all wheels except Flash), the distribution of the attack points can interfere with the force of a wheel's smash, as they can be block each other from making contact. Refer to Drawing Method #2 in this situation, where protrusions are close enough to be considered one contact point. However, this modification still allows the green radius blue radius rule to work.
4. Based on a specific customization, decide whether the consistency or force of a wheel's smash is more important, eg. Bahamdia has force, but lacks consistency because the attack points are not spaced evenly, creating smooth areas, whereas Pegasis (Chrome Wheel) has consistency, but lacks force as a result of its attack points covering each other.

Examples of Factors in Practice
Flash, has a large difference between the green radius and the blue radius and consistency, which made it the deadliest OHKO attack wheel before Synchrom. The most frequently used form was Flash ___ GB145R2F
Bahamdia's inconsistency actually helps in push-KO attack types. This is owing to Bahamdia hitting with 0-force attack points that allows it to push the opponent around, then sinks in with a stronger attack point that deals the KO-ing hit. This behaviour is evident in [MSF-M] Bahamdia Dragooon BD145R2F/LRF

Other Factors of Smash
1.a) Mass can increase smash because

F=ma

where F is the force of the smash and a is the mass of an object (in this case, an attack point)

and in the formula below, velocity will also be a factor:

E=1/2*mv^2

Where E is the kinetic energy in joules, m is the mass and v is the velocity of the mass.

1.b) Mass also affects smash by varying the amount of recoil, including rotational recoil, due to inertia.
1.c) Mass Distribution can affect smash depending on where mass is located. If little mass is located near the edge where a attack point is and more near the centre of the Beyblade, smash will be reduced.

1.a) To help explain how mass affects smash, imagine a car hitting you. It is obviously going to push you back further than if a tennis ball hits you, because the former is heavier and therefore has more force.
1.b) The car's mass also has the additional side effect of having less recoil, due to it having more inertia than you, therefore it moves back less than you would, as a result of the collision.
Low recoil is a desirable trait that an attack wheel should have, as more energy is applied toward the opponent rather than being wasted via KO-ing yourself due to recoil.
1.c) Mass distribution affects smash depending on where it is. Picture a sector of a wheel as a second/third class lever, where the centre is the fulcrum and you, the opponent are lifting the other end as if you were trying to stop the Beyblade from rotating. If there is little mass on the end you are lifting but more towards the fulcrum, you do not have to use much effort since the weight on your arm is reduced. However, if there is more towards your arm, you use more effort because more weight is on your arm.
Therefore, it is obvious that mass should be distributed on the edge of the wheel where the attack points are located, to minimise rotational recoil, and in return the opponent goes further back.

Finally, I have a video of the process of each diagram to present (click link):
Video on Process 1
Video on Process 2

Concluding statements
Summary: A tremendously easy-as-carp-to-use-with-godlike-force-with-godlike-consistency (but impossible) attack wheel should have a large difference between the green radius and the blue radius, evenly spaced contact points, and good mass distribution. Just remember that you may prefer one quality over another.

I hope this guide was useful to new bladers, as I certainly learned a load of fundamentals from researching all of the physics theories. My wish is for all bladers to use this guide when selecting a wheel for a special purpose.
Right now I'm working out a formula to numerically calculate smash, and it's going to be epic, once it gets done.

I like stuff (Click to View)

Challenge: (Click to View)

Apply this process to the fugitive known as (Click to View)

Wyvang

Spoiler (Click to View)

and receive recognition in the OP!

This is my first thread, so feedback and constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.

Special Mentions
Kai-V:

• For helping in editing the drafts (4-7-14)
  
• For providing helpful diagrams to add to the thread (11-9-14)
  

Cake:

• For editing/improving/helping with beyphysics section (16-7-14)
  

Kujikato:

• For helping with all beyphysics theories (17-7-14)
  

Edit history! (Click to View)

EDIT 1: I'll be replying to at least 2 posts (occasionally 1 if 48 hours has passed) at once to prevent back-and-forth posting.
EDIT 2 : The poll is actually out of 10, but feel free to vote 11 if it/s particularly well done. @*Ginga*: You were here ...criticism please? I also added extra information to give a better understanding. PS. should I de-spoiler some parts? Feel free to advise.
And I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but I'm checking with Kai-V if i should turn this thread into one with diagrams of all the ["good"] wheels, so participate pre-approval so this thread can be a better archive!
EDIT 3: If you are able to apply this process to other wheels, it shows me that I am not terrible at explaining as I usually am.
EDIT 4: More clarity now...
EDIT 5: Spoilering the super-long edit history. Also took out very dangerous mistakes.
EDIT 6: I have made the diagrams clearer and bigger now. Hope it helps.
EDIT 7: Improved the calculations part, mentioned examples in Step 2. This should make the article more helpful.
EDIT 8: Sorry for changing the title; it seems more relevant to the content in this post.
EDIT 9:Energy, Force, Effort, Work. AARGH. I've fixed the sections that may confuse those between each other.

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Please PM me if you have extensively tested Begirados, Pegasis and Balro on identical setups for side-on smash!!!

Making a thread for a new beyblade customisation? PM me and I'll happily help with the bey-physics explanations and stuff like that!

Homepage! (Babbleland)
Uploads (video guides/representations of my babblesense)

My bey history (Click to View)

Earth ___ 135SD/WD (2011-2013)(My Earth is broken :()
Death ___ Bearing Drive (2012-2014)
Death ___ SA165(Attack)SWD
Gryph Balro BD145R2F (Previously temporarily SA165WSF)

You should mention the consistency of a part in the drawing section, because other than that, there's no reason to do the drawings.

Bahamdia actually has decent consistency. It's has two large prominent attack points, much like Flash. Maybe you should mention how smash varies?

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

You should mention the consistency of a part in the drawing section, because other than that, there's no reason to do the drawings.

Bahamdia actually has decent consistency. It's has two large prominent attack points, much like Flash. Maybe you should mention how smash varies?

1. The reason I did the drawings was because it is generally easier for non-robots like us to calculate smash by referencing visuals.
2. IIRC, in the Bahamdia Ifraid SA165R2F thread, Ingulit or Meow! mentioned that Bahamdia had inconsistencies. If I am wrong though, suggest a wheel. But you right in that Bahamdia indeed has two major attack points.
And smash varies as in...?

PS. I'll change contact points to attack points, because the latter seems more relevant to attack types.

Thanks for the feedback. PM me if you have a billion questions, because from now on, I'm replying to two or more posts at a time unless 24 hours have past since one. It's just to prevent back and forth posts that could be done by PM.

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Please PM me if you have extensively tested Begirados, Pegasis and Balro on identical setups for side-on smash!!!

Making a thread for a new beyblade customisation? PM me and I'll happily help with the bey-physics explanations and stuff like that!

Homepage! (Babbleland)
Uploads (video guides/representations of my babblesense)

My bey history (Click to View)

Earth ___ 135SD/WD (2011-2013)(My Earth is broken :()
Death ___ Bearing Drive (2012-2014)
Death ___ SA165(Attack)SWD
Gryph Balro BD145R2F (Previously temporarily SA165WSF)

This is really cool!
11

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[font="Proxima Nova Regular", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/font]

So in other words:

Better smash = consistent spacing for attack points + more weight on the attack points + closer to center of bey

Tell me if my head processor has missed anything

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So in other words:

Better smash = consistent spacing for attack points + more weight on the attack points + closer to center of bey

Tell me if my head processor has missed anything

Weight distribution doesn't matter too much. Also even though weight is good, it may slow the Beyblade down a bit... also, just weight in general, not just on the attack points. Low recoil is also important.

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I am an odd person sometimes, here's why (Click to View)

If the weight is focused towards the outside it has a better chance of making contact with that contact point, IMO.

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

So in other words:

Better smash = consistent spacing for attack points + more weight on the attack points + closer to center of bey

Tell me if my head processor has missed anything

Weight distribution doesn't matter too much. Also even though weight is good, it may slow the Beyblade down a bit... also, just weight in general, not just on the attack points. Low recoil is also important.

Does more weight=less recoil?

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So in other words:

Better smash = consistent spacing for attack points + more weight on the attack points + closer to center of bey

Tell me if my head processor has missed anything

Weight distribution doesn't matter too much. Also even though weight is good, it may slow the Beyblade down a bit... also, just weight in general, not just on the attack points. Low recoil is also important.

Does more weight=less recoil?

Defenitely not. Wyvang and Balro are the heaviest chrome wheels, they also have some of the most recoil.

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

If the weight is focused towards the outside it has a better chance of making contact with that contact point, IMO.

Herm? Since when does mass (assuming that's what you mean) make contact with an attack (more relevant term in terms of this article) point? I' don't get what you mean.

Ocean: Mass (the correct term) distribution DOES matter. A 43g wheel with generally more externally distributed mass (in terms of the distance from the axis of rotation) would be better (in terms of reducing rotational recoil) than a 43g wheel with generally more centered mass (again, in terms of the distance from the axis of rotation). If you read the OP, the less you move back, the more the opponent does.

@Echizen again: Since when does Balro have "some of the most recoil"? I use it on WSF against Gargole BD145RS and I don't have problems.

This is what I mean by replying to more than one post at a time.


And it would be great if we all talk about how this thread could be more informative, rather that telling each other about wheels. Such as pointing out mistakes. I edited the OP just a few minutes ago, but I have the gut feeling that there are more mistakes that only readers can isolate.

---

Please PM me if you have extensively tested Begirados, Pegasis and Balro on identical setups for side-on smash!!!

Making a thread for a new beyblade customisation? PM me and I'll happily help with the bey-physics explanations and stuff like that!

Homepage! (Babbleland)
Uploads (video guides/representations of my babblesense)

My bey history (Click to View)

Earth ___ 135SD/WD (2011-2013)(My Earth is broken :()
Death ___ Bearing Drive (2012-2014)
Death ___ SA165(Attack)SWD
Gryph Balro BD145R2F (Previously temporarily SA165WSF)

If the weight is focused towards the outside it has a better chance of making contact with that contact point, IMO.

Herm? Since when does mass (assuming that's what you mean) make contact with an attack (more relevant term in terms of this article) point? I' don't get what you mean.

Ocean: Mass (the correct term) distribution DOES matter. A 43g wheel with generally more externally distributed mass (in terms of the distance from the axis of rotation) would be better (in terms of reducing rotational recoil) than a 43g wheel with generally more centered mass (again, in terms of the distance from the axis of rotation). If you read the OP, the less you move back, the more the opponent does.

@Echizen again: Since when does Balro have "some of the most recoil"? I use it on WSF against Gargole BD145RS and I don't have problems.

This is what I mean by replying to more than one post at a time.


And it would be great if we all talk about how this thread could be more informative, rather that telling each other about wheels. Such as pointing out mistakes. I edited the OP just a few minutes ago, but I have the gut feeling that there are more mistakes that only readers can isolate.

Please stop thinking yourself superior to others and (correct me if I'm wrong) we are all equals here besides the mods and advanced members who are way better than us.

Weight Distribution doesn't matter too much because what matters is the Critical Contact Points and how big/recoily they are.


If you used a staller against a recoily Defense. Of course the staller would win... try a top tier Defense type against an Attack type and see what happens.

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I am an odd person sometimes, here's why (Click to View)

Ocean: Mass (the correct term) distribution DOES matter. A 43g wheel with generally more externally distributed mass (in terms of the distance from the axis of rotation) would be better (in terms of reducing rotational recoil) than a 43g wheel with generally more centered mass (again, in terms of the distance from the axis of rotation). If you read the OP, the less you move back, the more the opponent does.

Please stop thinking yourself superior to others and (correct me if I'm wrong) we are all equals here besides the mods and advanced members who are way better than us.

Weight Distribution doesn't matter too much because what matters is the Critical Contact Points and how big/recoily they are.

If you used a staller against a recoily Defense. Of course the staller would win... try a top tier Defense type against an Attack type and see what happens.

What...? You definitely misunderstood everything he said. He was just trying to explain to you the importance of weight distribution, a concept on which you were clearly misinformed. Nowhere does he even allude to himself being a superior to you or anybody else... Advanced, mod, or not, nobody is above anybody else here. :\ (except Blader DJ, of course)

The best demonstration of weight (I'm gonna call it this to keep from getting too technical) distribution's importance and its effect on performance is plastics. As th!nk pointed out once, the older generations of Beyblade were very different from MFB because you could actually significantly alter the distribution of weight within the tops via different sized Weight Disks and weighted Spin Gears. The entire Plastics generation basically hinged on changing the distribution of weight within your top to suit your needs.

By your logic (i.e. as long as the part maintains the same shape and overall weight, the distribution is irrelevant), then an Attack combo using Triple Wing on a 8-Heavy should be just as effective as though it were using a Wide Defense. However, that's not that case because by putting all that weight near the center, rather than distributing it around the AR and and putting it behind the AR's contact points, not only is the entire combo's Stamina/Endurance hindered, but it's also no longer able to hit as strongly as it would have with Wide Defense.

And your example of "recoily Defense" doesn't necessarily mean the Defense combo has to be inherently lame Stamina-wise. Phantom has quite a bit of recoil, but if you utilized it in a Defense setup, you could potentially beat a tornado-stalling combo, such as Balro Balro BD145MF.


@f¡$h: Nice thread. I'd like to look into this myself some more in the future, but I've gotta finish something else up first. Let me know if you want any help graphics-wise, though, I'd be happy to help.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

Please stop thinking yourself superior to others and (correct me if I'm wrong) we are all equals here besides the mods and advanced members who are way better than us.

Don't mean to get off-topic, but that's untrue. I think Neo would have more knowledge on Plastics then TheBlackDragon. Possibly Echizen and Tr! as well.

Nice topic!

If the weight is focused towards the outside it has a better chance of making contact with that contact point, IMO.

Herm? Since when does mass (assuming that's what you mean) make contact with an attack (more relevant term in terms of this article) point? I' don't get what you mean.

As, Angry Face mentioned, in plastics the weight disk focuses weight to the outer edge of the Attack Ring, therefore has more weight to smash. Since the weight is focused near the outside it's a bit less balanced, IMO.

@Echizen again: Since when does Balro have "some of the most recoil"? I use it on WSF against Gargole BD145RS and I don't have problems.

From what I've seen it has tons of recoil(Maybe not as much as others), especially being used on attack types.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Focusing weight outwards actually improves a Beyblade's balance, grinding ability, solo spin time, and Smash Attack.

More weight = less recoil in every case. A heavier Beyblade will suffer from less movement of its own because, in any system where two objects collide, since Force = mass * acceleration, the amount that an object will be pushed is inversely proportional to the object's weight. The reason that Balro and Wyvang are still somewhat recoily is simply because their collisions have more total energy because of their stronger Smash. Consequently, both Beyblades are moved more than they would in a case with weaker Smash. Though, I would argue that Balro/Wyvang are actually pretty manageable, recoil-wise - just look at Balro^2 BD145MF. If Balro was super-recoily that combo would self-KO all the time without a rubber tip.

One important thing that I believe you missed in your analysis is the size of gaps in the wheel that lead up to the contact points. The larger the gaps (as in Flash, which is basically two gigantic gaps due to its elliptical shape) the stronger and more consistent the hits will be. This is because, as the Beyblades spin and move together, a wider gap allows the Beyblades to approach for ever so slightly longer and thus get deeper into the gap before being hit by the contact point. When the Beyblades do collide, there is more surface area in the collision, since the Beyblades are closer and are not just skimming one another's surface. This transfers much more energy and results in a much stronger hit. It also reduces the chance that the Beyblades will collide just as the contact point approaches, and the hit will have smaller contact area and skip off without as much effect.

BTW I'm pretty sure the formula you want to use is F=ma, not E=mc^2. E=mc^2 is the theory of general relativity, and relates energy (E) to mass (m) times the square of the speed of light ©. It refers to the possibility of converting matter into energy and vice versa, and is applied in nuclear reactions. Since we aren't nuking anything in Beyblade (until the anime becomes reality) that formula won't really apply. Aside from that, I thought it was a good, informative article.

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Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

More weight doesn't actually mean less recoil it's just that the recoil is controlled, which might appear like it is less recoil, but it is the same.

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(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

The MW's shape will have the same "recoil coefficient" (I guess, just made that up lol) regardless of its weight, sure, but what matters isn't how much recoil the Wheel has inherently - it's how that recoil is expressed when it hits something. If you had the most recoily wheel in existence, like an MFB Bump King, but it was absurdly heavy - so heavy that its recoil was dampened to be roughly on par with Wyvang's, then, for all intents and purposes, its recoil is equivalent to Wyvang's. In Plastics, this would be different, since weight and Attack/recoil are more separately modifiable, but for the purposes of MFB, a wheel's dampened recoil due to its weight is the amount of recoil it will have in any circumstance.

What I'm trying to say is that a part's recoil after being dampened by weight is what matters - it doesn't matter how recoily the wheel's design is if, in practice, its weight or some other attribute keeps that recoil in check.

---

Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

Angry Face Thanks for the support. It means a lot to me. But if I did sound arrogant, then I guess it's sorry to Ocean.
Cake I guess E=mc^2 sounds a little strange, because thinking about it, it does imply energy is mass and blabble. I'm changing it to F=ma, because it does sound more relevant. Thanks for pointing that out!
@*Ginga* I'm looking into that right now, and considering your point, I'm iffy about my post. Could advanced members check that recoil (in terms of beyblade) is just a oppositely-directed force and not how much the bey moves back? If it is the former, then this is my reaction:

---

Please PM me if you have extensively tested Begirados, Pegasis and Balro on identical setups for side-on smash!!!

Making a thread for a new beyblade customisation? PM me and I'll happily help with the bey-physics explanations and stuff like that!

Homepage! (Babbleland)
Uploads (video guides/representations of my babblesense)

My bey history (Click to View)

Earth ___ 135SD/WD (2011-2013)(My Earth is broken :()
Death ___ Bearing Drive (2012-2014)
Death ___ SA165(Attack)SWD
Gryph Balro BD145R2F (Previously temporarily SA165WSF)

Angry Face Thanks for the support. It means a lot to me. But if I did sound arrogant, then I guess it's sorry to Ocean.
Cake I guess E=mc^2 sounds a little strange, because thinking about it, it does imply energy is mass and blabble. I'm changing it to F=ma, because it does sound more relevant. Thanks for pointing that out!
@*Ginga* I'm looking into that right now, and considering your point, I'm iffy about my post. Could advanced members check that recoil (in terms of beyblade) is just a oppositely-directed force and not how much the bey moves back? If it is the former, then this is my reaction:

Would Ginka mean:
Lighter wheel = more recoil, same recoil damage?

Heavier wheel = less recoil, same recoil damage?

I'm trying to differentiate between how much damage taken and how much a bey is pushed back due to recoil. Tell me if this is incorrect.

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Angry Face Thanks for the support. It means a lot to me. But if I did sound arrogant, then I guess it's sorry to Ocean.
Cake I guess E=mc^2 sounds a little strange, because thinking about it, it does imply energy is mass and blabble. I'm changing it to F=ma, because it does sound more relevant. Thanks for pointing that out!
@*Ginga* I'm looking into that right now, and considering your point, I'm iffy about my post. Could advanced members check that recoil (in terms of beyblade) is just a oppositely-directed force and not how much the bey moves back? If it is the former, then this is my reaction:

Would Ginka mean:
Lighter wheel = more recoil, same recoil damage?

Heavier wheel = less recoil, same recoil damage?

I'm trying to differentiate between how much damage taken and how much a bey is pushed back due to recoil. Tell me if this is incorrect.

Lighter doesn't mean more recoil it just means harder to control the recoil. Heavier doesn't mean less recoil, just easier to control. So the heavier recoil usually has less recoil.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Lighter doesn't mean more recoil it just means harder to control the recoil. Heavier doesn't mean less recoil, just easier to control. So the heavier recoil usually has "less recoil damage".

1. How do you 'control recoil' exactly?
2. What is 'recoil damage' as opposed to a simple 'recoil'?

I'm getting confused here...

Lighter doesn't mean more recoil it just means harder to control the recoil. Heavier doesn't mean less recoil, just easier to control. So the heavier recoil usually has "less recoil damage".

1. How do you 'control recoil' exactly?
2. What is 'recoil damage' as opposed to a simple 'recoil'?

I'm getting confused here...

I guess I meant so that when you hit; take a hit you don't get knocked around as easily.

I was quoting what he said, but I guess the amount of recoil you recieve ?

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Could advanced members check that recoil (in terms of beyblade) is just a oppositely-directed force and not how much the bey moves back?

http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/Recoil

Basically recoil is recoil. It's not a good thing. How far the bey moves back depends on more than just 1 variable, ie:

- How much recoil the bey has
- How much smash the opposing bey has
- The weight difference of the 2 beys also plays a role

More often than not, recoil is linked to the smash power. The more smash capability a bey has, usually means more recoil for the bey as well.

Putting weights and recoils aside, measuring pure smash capability of a wheel is really difficult. If you could come out with a standardized method to yield numerical result that represents a wheel's smash capability, it would be extremeeeeeeely great! I'm definitely looking forward to it.

http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/Recoil

Basically recoil is recoil. It's not a good thing. How far the bey moves back depends on more than just 1 variable, ie:

- How much recoil the bey has
- How much smash the opposing bey has
- The weight difference of the 2 beys also plays a role

More often than not, recoil is linked to the smash power. The more smash capability a bey has, usually means more recoil for the bey as well.

Putting weights and recoils aside, measuring pure smash capability of a wheel is really difficult. If you could come out with a standardized method to yield numerical result that represents a wheel's smash capability, it would be extremeeeeeeely great! I'm definitely looking forward to it.

to spring or fly back
...
the Beyblade is knocked in the opposite direction

So, this seems good, since it is just an action, not a force.

And, in 2 months (or more, depending on time), I should be able to devise a proper scientifically-based method that actually uses numbers, considering that's the proper way experiments work. Terms I might use are density, mass, inertia and speed of a contact point (though not really a characteristic of a wheel without major assumptions such as a consistent launch speed. But maybe I can include that in the "universal formula").

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Please PM me if you have extensively tested Begirados, Pegasis and Balro on identical setups for side-on smash!!!

Making a thread for a new beyblade customisation? PM me and I'll happily help with the bey-physics explanations and stuff like that!

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Earth ___ 135SD/WD (2011-2013)(My Earth is broken :()
Death ___ Bearing Drive (2012-2014)
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Bahahaha, I love this thread. Physics ftw in my life, so many kudos to you for coming up with this.

A master formula would be awesome, hopefully it won't be too much of a hassle to come up with.


EDIT: So me and Fish have been talking (discussing carefully in his words, haha), and we've come up with this so far:

The constituents of force [of smash] and lots of formulae:

-Mass (how it influences recoil)
-Speed of contact point
-Friction
-Inertia
-Recoil (how it affects the distance both beys go)
-Density

and others

We'll have to factor in the percentage chance of hitting at the contact point though.

Masses are easy to come by here, we have an entire spreadsheet of them. I'll try and find them. How it affects recoil is much harder though. I feel that it dampens the recoil, since the weight 'resists' the knockback that occurs. Nyeh.

Speed of contact point I suppose we could take a constant. The average RPM of a bey. Then multiply it by 0.75, 0.5, 0.25 as the length of a match goes on. Late game smashers would still be able to KO at the 0.25 RPM point. Another thing is how fast the bey is moving before the collision, I suppose we can separate that into velocity.

Friction only kinda occurs in three points: Bottom/Tip of the bey, The air around them (negligible) and when the two beys hit. I think we can safely focus only on the nature of the tip. Namely RF, R2F, LRF, WF, XF, GF, CF, & GCF for offense and RS, RB, RSF, CS, & MB for defense. Please add any tips if I missed them. I wonder if this would really characterize the smash of a wheel. We COULD have this as an optional segment for "Total smash in a combo" though.

Inertia... Hmm. This comes down to weight distribution really, not much I can help here. Can't recall much.

Recoil is the biggest problem. I have NO idea how we're gonna measure it without banging up some beys. Try to talk to some of the advanced members, maybe they have some ideas.

Density should be relatively simple. We'll just take the volume of the wheels and get the measurements. We'll look at the correlation later on. Though I think that it has the same effect as weight does, dampening the negative effects of recoil.

Some of these are more for in-game/in-combo smash though. I think focusing on the Metal Wheels first would help, meaning we might focus more on:

- Weight
- Density
- % Chance of Contact Point
- Rotational Velocity
- Inertia (Bleh)
- Recoil

Thoughts?

Ok. So we'll start working on a formula? And Recoil, well we know that energy can only converted, so we can do some form of complementary (if that's the word) subtraction. And If we jiggle all the formulae around, we'll get something. As for density, it might have something to do with the recoil dampening, or sorts.

Chance of contact point: I believe we might be just working on the force of a particular contact point (I mean literally a point).

That being said, do you want to just focus on maximum possible smash then? So like, calculate the amount of 'punch' a contact point has?

That could work, we'd just get the average of the wheel's 'punch' power to get the rough average of smash.

So right now, you have your ratio thing, which I am assuming works on the concept of flywheel smash. Not very sure on how you got it though, care to elaborate?


We ought to get a base value from a wheel like Earth or Reviser to have a 0 smash control. Basalt will be VERY interesting to explain though, haha.

So right now we're kinda focusing on

- Weight (Recoil dampening)
- Density (Recoil dampening)
- Recoil dampening (We'll need a definition for this then)
- Recoil
- Weight Distribution
- The smash axis thingy

In a wheel's overall maximum smash.

We'll use the concept of 100% potential. So that minor issues can be avoided.

What I was thinking was an actual calculation of force that a attack (more relevant) point could deal, so we could come up with something like Smash=YadiYada!xBlahBlah^2. Actual physics formulae and calculations. This seems to be a good professional way of calculating smash, rather than how far a bey goes, now that I think about it. But we might just be able to add it in as proof of theory, if you get what I mean.

We're going to need a whole lot more measurements then. A pressure sensor would be needed. Something that... Well... Could measure how many Newtons the bey delivers in a hit.

Oh my gosh! Why didn't I think of that before?! Too cool, bro. Nice job. All I have to to is get a Newton meter or the likes...

Since I don't have every single wheel in the world, this will need to become an active world participation effort. Then, we could rank the wheels in order of the force of the smash.

So, does this make the calculations obsolete? I feel the need to do calculations and experimentation.

Kudos to you, though!

Actually.

You just need to do the Newton reading from a bey that you have. Then use that to estimate the smash of every other wheel. Use the ambiguous smash formula that has no units.

So we have
- Raw smash power of a wheel (in Newtons)
- Their smash ratio (using your line method for now, we'll figure out a formula as we go along)

Which allows us to calculate the rough raw power of EVERY wheel at it's maximum.

So we've come up with the basic idea for how to calculate maximum smash of a wheel by using something along the lines of a pressure sensor. We still have to apply other things into it, along with more non-experimental calculations, but for now any thoughts from you guys?

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