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E230 discussion

Jun. 29, 2012  5:49 AM
 
(Jun. 29, 2012  5:39 AM)Brood Wrote: WA130 has right spin mode and left spin mode as it says in the instruction manual.But it clearly saids that you can not use right spin mode for left spin and the vice versa.

Maybe someday I should phone TT about E230.Cuz there is only ONE image that indicates the "boost mode" position.

Oh TT, you're so silly about WA130 (or is it Hasbro who said that?).

Wait, so there is an official image out there that shows E230 in upper mode? Can you post it? If it exists, then I would think that would make a big case toward it being okay.
Jun. 29, 2012  5:54 AM
 
While the instruction sheet doesn't clearly state both modes. It does have images of E230 in different modes in 2 separate pictures. Thanks to Hazel who scrutinized the tiny difference of the two images. This fact alone, should be enough to conclude that both modes are 'legal'. However, it would be preferred if we wait for the Committee to give the green light in order to seal the status.
Jun. 29, 2012  5:29 PM
 
(Jun. 29, 2012  5:54 AM)Uwik Wrote: While the instruction sheet doesn't clearly state both modes. It does have images of E230 in different modes in 2 separate pictures. Thanks to Hazel who scrutinized the tiny difference of the two images. This fact alone, should be enough to conclude that both modes are 'legal'. However, it would be preferred if we wait for the Committee to give the green light in order to seal the status.

Seriously not trying to debate or argue but Kai V said in a special magical place

Kai-V Wrote:Apparently it is clearly hinted at in the instruction sheets, so it is not even a matter of debate .

Just had to throw that in there.
Jun. 29, 2012  5:51 PM
 
I don't know ... while it does indeed show both "modes" on the instruction sheet, as far as I can tell, the "upper mode" (or whatever) is only shown in one image. This would lead me to believe that it was a mistake made by the TAKARA-TOMY employee taking that particular photograph. Using it in this mode sort of defeats the purpose of it being "elevator" 230 as well, since the movement of the disc is minimized. And nowhere in the instructions does it promote flipping the disc, which is unlike a Track like WA130 where it apparently does promote flipping the wings.

Now, I'm not saying this should mean that the other mode should be illegal, but I thought it should be pointed out that it isn't something that TAKARA-TOMY likely intended. I'm certain that in the past (at least for Plastics/HMS) there have been customizations or "modes" discovered for certain things that weren't outlined by TAKARA-TOMY that we legalized for organized play, so perhaps this should be one of them.
Jun. 29, 2012  9:04 PM
 
I'm for (keeping it) legal.

TT never makes mistakes, so it must have been intentional... (sarcasm here)

Though actually I think that the 2 pictures indicates an intent to demonstrate both modes, and that if a mistake was made it was in not applying the two labels that would have named the modes. (pure speculation this time)
Jun. 30, 2012  11:17 AM
 
I'm thinking we leave it legal because I'm guessing it's already been used at tournaments, and hey, if there's a picture in the instructions, TT would have an interesting time telling people at their WBBA tournaments that "oh no sorry you can't do that".

Kei - the way your post discusses it actually made me lean towards wanting it made illegal - because by allowing that, if it were an error, and use in that mode wasn't intended, then we'd have to seriously look at the whole ED130/WA145 thing and so on, amongst other things...
Jul. 12, 2012  6:20 PM
 
it isnt what E 230 was ment for but it works good since E 230 only works correctly with an XF tip and a blitz wheel in the destroyer dome
try it to see original function
Jul. 12, 2012  6:31 PM
 
Or get what's called a "Zero-G" Stadium. I hear that, even though nobody would ever think about it, E230 works in those Stadiums.
Jul. 12, 2012  8:50 PM
 
230 A230 E230 there pretty good pretty good for competitive use.
Jul. 12, 2012  9:50 PM
 
Your point is?
Anyways, A230 has had little to no public testing..so how'd you come to that conclusion...?
Jul. 13, 2012  12:35 AM
 
On the two modes:

My 2c on this is that the disk pops off so easily when you're disassembling the bey that most players who don't know one from the other can simply put it back not knowing which side is "properly" up. This leads me to think TT doesn't much care for it being in either mode. It doesn't matter how many official images have it in whatever mode. The fact that mere disassembly makes is prone to an erroneous switch convinces me that either mode is quite alright (by TT).
May. 26, 2013  6:58 PM
 
Which mode is the "boosting" mode and which is the "upper" mode of E230? =S which mode is better for each type of custom?
Jun. 04, 2013  1:08 AM
 
Mini-necrooo (I think it's justified since this is important for peeps who are also confused)

When you put the disk of E230 on the track, you'll notice that if you put it on one way the disk will be lower than if you put it on upside-down. The lower "mode" is what we've been calling "normal mode", and the other mode is what we've been calling "upper mode" (or "boost mode" a'la BD145, but that's just a colloquialism). None of these things are official terms, just names we gave to the "modes" so we know what each other are talking about. Grin
Aug. 05, 2013  3:19 PM
 
NECRO TIME AGAIN!!

I've found an interesting use for E230- I was going to put up a thread for it, but I figure I'll post it here first.

At the last tournament I went to, I used an experimental custom I was using, Revizer Killerken E230 (upper) CS. Now, while Revizer Killerken is an excellent Defense custom, that wasn't my intent with this custom. Rather, I have found that E230 is very good at destabilizing certain combos, and I wanted to make a custom that could make good use of that ability.

Parts choices-
Spoiler (Click to View)

How it works-
Spoiler (Click to View)

Results (not formal testing sorry)-
Spoiler (Click to View)
Aug. 05, 2013  3:57 PM
 
Totally agree! I use that exact same combo!

I'll definitely try to post official tests, because I really like this combo!
Aug. 05, 2013  4:50 PM
 
Nice combo!! Is your CS calm or aggressive?
Aug. 05, 2013  5:01 PM
 
It's half-and-half atm... I can rip it calm easily, or launch it aggro just as easily. Really handy for another one of my favorite customs, MF Phantom Cancer BD145CS.
Aug. 05, 2013  6:29 PM
 
Just to say it... you are absolutely right! Smile I've been using E230MB combos in Zero-G forever, and they never lose a same-spin match up. I used Genbull Genbull E230MB at my last tournament, and it creamed some stuff. Smile My brother used Reviser Killerken E230FB and it OSed Duo 3 times in a row in a Zero-G stadium... If this works on CS too, then we could have a defense custom with the ability to OS conventional stamina.
Aug. 05, 2013  6:31 PM
 
What other tips would this work on I wonder, Maybe TB or ES.
Since they wobble.
Aug. 05, 2013  6:50 PM
 
Yes, TB might(highly doubt ES will), but then you lose the defensive ability. The whole point is to have a balance type(I say balance, because you sacrifice some defense by using CS and Killerken) that can OS some top tier stamina combos.
Aug. 05, 2013  8:12 PM
 
IMO TB would be too short... I would love to use MB but mine is missing Crying
Aug. 05, 2013  8:20 PM
 
A good reason to use TB/MB over CS would be if you were playing in a zero stadium, where CS is swayed much easier than TB/MB. I would definitely not TB in a BB-10 unless I was sure of what I was playing against...

Actually, even then I wouldn't use it because the point of a balance type is to be decent in each field (IE to use during a stalling clause), but if you know what the other guy's using then you might as well just go overkill on his weakness. :\ I'd just use CS...

EDIT: Tests!! Smile
Spoiler (Click to View)
Aug. 06, 2013  6:45 PM
 
Did a few tests:

Standard Procedure
Parts Swapped When Necessary
Launches Rotated in everything but the third test(E230 was launched first)

Revizer Killerken E230 CS vs MF-F Duo Gasher W145 WD
Killerken: 8 Wins(All OS)
Duo: 2 Wins(All OS)
E230 Win Rate: 80%

80% against stamina.... impressive.

Revizer Killerken E230 CS vs Wyvang Wyvang BD145 RSF
Killerken: 12 Wins(All OS)
Wyvang: 8 Wins(7 KO, 1 OS)
E230 Win Rate: 60%

I did this so see how it would fare against a Synchrom + BD145 defender. It easily OS, but Wyvang was able to somewhat salvage the match by managing 7 KOs.

Revizer Killerken E230 CS vs Revizer Killerken BD145 RSF
E230: 8 Wins(All OS)
BD145: 2 Wins(All OS)
E230 Win Rate: 80%

I did this to see how a less recoily setup would work, but CS just had too much stamina.

Revizer Killerken E230 CS vs Revizer Killerken BD145 CS
E230: 9 Wins(All OS)
BD145: 11 Wins(All OS)
E230 Win Rate: 45%

45% is not bad at all. It mainly depended on which combo was launched first.
Aug. 06, 2013  7:02 PM
 
(Aug. 05, 2013  3:19 PM)Cake Wrote: However, the combo can easily be OSed by tall-track Stamina customs, and, due to its ineffectiveness against SA165, it doesn't fare so well against a significant portion of Dragoon customs.[/spoiler]

This is the dealbreaker for me, personally. It can't beat most Dragooon or SA165 Stamina customs, and it has trouble with Synchrom's in general? That's pretty much the entire metagame right there, besides Attack types and BD145 combos.
Aug. 06, 2013  7:11 PM
 
Isn't Duo W145 WD fairly popular though? I was under the impression W145 was almost always played over 230, due to the fact it is way better against Dragooon.

Also, it didn't do that badly against the Synchrom BD145 combos I tested against. That 45% in my tests could easily be 60% in a tournament.
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