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Death Discussion

Jul. 01, 2013  2:34 AM
 
I still don't know how you are even getting these matches to be close
Jul. 01, 2013  2:42 AM
 
Like I said, if you need a video, I can have one up in the next hour...

Also, here is another reason why not to use Death:
Standard Procedure
Dragooon Weak Launched for maximum spin stealing
Launches Rotated
Duo Gasher AD145 WD vs Revizer Dragooon SA165 EWD
Duo:10 Wins(All OS)
Dragooon:0 Wins(N/A)
1 Tie
Dragooon Win Rate: 0%

Why used the outclassed in same spin Death when you can use the top tier Duo and get the same results.

By the way, since spin equalizing battles are so close, half a rotation was considered a victory...
Jul. 01, 2013  2:48 AM
 
(Jun. 30, 2013  4:25 PM)ShinobuXD Wrote: Ok, I used a semi-worn WD and a semi-aggro CS.

I gave a completely mint WD a go yesterday, and Death did better, but it was still only 50/50.

That was it... agro CS bottoms are very uncommon, but the ones that people have can actually OS WD. I have an agro CS, and a normal one. The agro one stomps on WD, but the normal one gets stomped on by WD.

Just try out someone else's (most likely normal) CS bottom, with a new WD. WD should win.

Killerken Reviser BD145CS vs. Death Cygnus W145WD
Calm CS. New WD.
Reviser: wins, 0/10
Cygnus: 10/10 (All OS)
Death Cygnus W145WD win rate: 100%

Killerken Reviser BD145CS vs. Death Cygnus W145WD
Agro CS. New WD.
Reviser: wins, 5/10 (All OS)
Cygnus: wins, 5/10 (All OS)
Death Cygnus W145WD win rate: 50%

As you can see, the problem was probably just the way your CS has worn/been made. Smile

Also, the very statement that you have made shows your bias against death... unless you haven't been reading around recently, you will see from the tests done that death can put up an impressive fight in terms of stamina.

Duo and phantom are better. However, no matter how much you want it to be, death is not bad. It is almost unbeatable with any spin-stealer, and it can pull its weight as a stamina wheel if it needs to. It's also miles ahead of phantom in defensive capacity.

It's not overwhelmingly top-tier for conventional same-spin stamina types, but it stomps on spin stealers pretty bad.

Reviser Dragooon BD145RDF vs. Duo Cygnus W145WD
Kinda sorta worn RDF. New-ish WD.
Dragooon: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Cygnus: wins, 0/10
Dragoon win rate: 100%

Reviser Dragooon BD145RDF vs. Death Cygnus W145WD
Kinda sorta worn RDF. New-ish WD.
Dragooon: wins, 0/10 (All OS)
Cygnus: wins, 10/10
Dragoon win rate: 0%

It's not that Death had higher LAD, it's just that Dragooon couldn't seem to actually steal much spin from death...

EDIT: I've got to start typing faster... It would seem that Death actually does better agaisnt RDF spin stealers, but just the same against SA165EWD. I agree 100% that Duo is a better choice, but I think you're making Death out to be a horrible piece of trash when it really isn't. Just because something isn't top-tier doesn't mean it's useless.
Jul. 01, 2013  5:44 AM
 
I think theblackdragon summarized it nicely and discussion can be ended after that, but just to add one thing I forgot to mention is that my cs is aggro (therefore, in the perfect wear for stamina) to the point that it tornado stalls for about 10 rotations around the tornado ridge.
Jul. 03, 2013  4:55 PM
 
First of all, I would say theblackdragon explained it nicely. I'm actually excited about the CS thing- both of mine are like that, albeit one to a lesser extent.

Second of all, I don't think Death is useless. I even recommended it to a friend in a combo, since he didn't have Phantom or Duo. I'm glad you don't consider it to be top tier, since people were considering it for top tier status, which doesn't make sense, considering it only does better than Duo on one combo. Might be useful in the UK since Dragooon BD145 RDF is played a ton there, I guess.
Jul. 03, 2013  5:03 PM
 
I believe it is pretty clear now that Death should not be considered useless by any means, it just does not appear that it can reach the ranks of Tier 1 for Stamina from all of the recent testing.
Jul. 03, 2013  11:21 PM
 
Ok we all know Death is good on a WD/EWD for beating left spin stamina, but has anyone tried Death___ BD145RDF again? I will post some tests when I have time, but at Summer Survival! my brother Fang Wolf used it at it completely shut down my left spin attackers.
Jul. 03, 2013  11:33 PM
 
(Jul. 03, 2013  11:21 PM)Yuko Ray14 Wrote: Ok we all know Death is good on a WD/EWD for beating left spin stamina, but has anyone tried Death___ BD145RDF again? I will post some tests when I have time, but at Summer Survival! my brother Fang Wolf used it at it completely shut down my left spin attackers.

It makes sense it would shut down left spin attackers. Death is good for anti-spin steal and RDF is good for Defense/LAD. So it makes sense it would counter it.
Jul. 03, 2013  11:37 PM
 
I'm gonna try out Death really soon.
Jul. 04, 2013  3:33 AM
 
I'll second wanting to see more done with MF-H Death ___ BD145RDF. On the same setup, Duo has shown more survivability against Synchrom attackers (read: Wyvang) than Synchrom defense types, and while Death has a lot more for an attacker to grab onto, it might put up comparable numbers. More importantly, if Death does as well against left-spin in this setup as it does on _145(E)WD, then we'd have a very nice pick for left-spin plagued metas.

ShinobuXD, I have literally no clue how you possibly could not OS a Synchrom defender with Death, lol! I don't see the condition of the CS being a factor at all; Death is more than passable for a stamina wheel as tests in this thread have shown, and to say your results go against what I've personally seen is a large understatement!

The reason Death is being mentioned again is because of its uncanny ability to do well against left-spin. If test results continue to show what we've already seen, then Death could potentially be considered competitive since it would OS both defense types and left-spin Beyblades. This is largely relevant due to left-spin becoming much more popular (at least from what I can tell judging from the Winning Customs thread), meaning it is more important than before to be able to defeat them. Yes, it's not as good as Duo or Phantom in a straight-up stamina battle, but it more consistently defeats left-spin than either of them.
Jul. 04, 2013  3:57 AM
 
I honestly think it must be CS. Time got 100% with Death, I got 0%, and theblackdragon had 100% and 50% with different CSs.

Death BD145 RDF tests would be nice IMO.

Death W145 WD just doesn't seem competitive though, since it performs better than Duo against Dragooon RDF only. Against SA165 EWD, the two are equal.(See tests from theblackdragon and I)
Jul. 04, 2013  6:12 AM
 
So you guys want me to test it? VS what?
Jul. 04, 2013  6:26 AM
 
I already have tests vs Left-Spin Attack. I just need to get to a comp to post results.
Jul. 04, 2013  6:28 AM
 
MF-H Death ___ BD145RDF? A few things:

* (MSF(-H)) ___ Dragooon SA165EWD and/or (MSF(-H)) ____ Dragooon BD145RDF, to see if it does well against spin-stealers;

* (MSF(-H)) Wyvang Wyvang GB145(RF/R2F) to see how it does against, well, Wyvang;

* MF-H Flash ____ GB145(RF/R2F) to act as a benchmark result, seeing as we should already know the outcome of these tests;

* (MSF(-H)) Wyvang Dragooon SA165[ZGAttack]R2F, to see if it can handle left-spin Synchrom attack;

and

* (MSF(-H)) Bahamdia Ifraid SA165[Normal]R2F for kicks and giggles other Synchrom attack tests (this is less important if you have two Wyvangs).

Sorry for the shopping list, but I figured you'd like a detailed answer Tongue_out
Jul. 04, 2013  3:12 PM
 
That is exactly what I wanted, I don't have 2 Wyvangs, and my bahamdia is lost, I can test the rest later as right now I'm at a picnic right now, but expect wyvang dragooon tests by to tonight. Oh happy 4th of July lol
Jul. 04, 2013  3:18 PM
 
If you have two of Begirados or Balro, you could probably try those.

I'll see if I can do some tests, but my RDF is kinda worn, and I want to set off some fireworks! Lol
Jul. 04, 2013  3:39 PM
 
I have 2 balro and 2 begerdos, I'll test with the 2 Balro, or whould you rather Balro Wyvang?
Jul. 04, 2013  4:15 PM
 
I've tried against Wyvang Dragooon. Now I'll try Wyvang Wyvang, but it'll be Normal Stone Face and TR145.
Since I don't have two RDFs or an EWD, can I use a normal WD?
Jul. 05, 2013  4:14 AM
 
(Jul. 04, 2013  3:33 AM)Ingulit Wrote: I'll second wanting to see more done with MF-H Death ___ BD145RDF. On the same setup, Duo has shown more survivability against Synchrom attackers (read: Wyvang) than Synchrom defense types, and while Death has a lot more for an attacker to grab onto, it might put up comparable numbers. More importantly, if Death does as well against left-spin in this setup as it does on _145(E)WD, then we'd have a very nice pick for left-spin plagued metas.

ShinobuXD, I have literally no clue how you possibly could not OS a Synchrom defender with Death, lol! I don't see the condition of the CS being a factor at all; Death is more than passable for a stamina wheel as tests in this thread have shown, and to say your results go against what I've personally seen is a large understatement!

The reason Death is being mentioned again is because of its uncanny ability to do well against left-spin. If test results continue to show what we've already seen, then Death could potentially be considered competitive since it would OS both defense types and left-spin Beyblades. This is largely relevant due to left-spin becoming much more popular (at least from what I can tell judging from the Winning Customs thread), meaning it is more important than before to be able to defeat them. Yes, it's not as good as Duo or Phantom in a straight-up stamina battle, but it more consistently defeats left-spin than either of them.

Another very nice summary
(Jul. 04, 2013  3:57 AM)ShinobuXD Wrote: I honestly think it must be CS. Time got 100% with Death, I got 0%, and theblackdragon had 100% and 50% with different CSs.

Death BD145 RDF tests would be nice IMO.

Death W145 WD just doesn't seem competitive though, since it performs better than Duo against Dragooon RDF only. Against SA165 EWD, the two are equal.(See tests from theblackdragon and I)
I've never liked death on w145 I honestly believe death is simply better on ad145 (ill get tests up when I have a chance)
Jul. 09, 2013  2:39 AM
 
I am so sorry for the late tests I had some personal issues I had to attend to. Sadly I only have one tests I hopefully will get the others up later this week.

Death launched first on even
Dragooon launched first on odd
Beylauncher used for Death
Beylauncher LR used for Dragooon

MF-H Death Hades BD145RDF vs MSF Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD
MF-H Death Hades Win Rate- 95% (19 OS)
MSF Reviser Dragooon Win Rate-5% (1 KO)

Detailed Results
Spoiler (Click to View)
Jul. 27, 2013  9:53 PM
 
Can anyone do a comparison test between duo's defense and death's defense abilities?
Jul. 27, 2013  10:24 PM
 
Duo and Death comparison tests conducted in the Duo Uranus Discussion thread pretty consistently displayed Duo as being the superior Defense Wheel.
Jul. 29, 2013  11:21 PM
 
Aaaagh I can't bear it, Dragooon murdered Duo. Now I just looked at Theblackdragon's testing thread and it looks like death murdered Dragooon.
Edit: don't mean to be so dramatic, I just like Duo a lot.
Jul. 30, 2013  10:40 PM
 
At this moment is Death top tier in any categories?
Jul. 30, 2013  10:43 PM
 
No. No death anywhere.

But it is a potent alternative to Duo in the combo Duo Cygnus F230CF.
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