Consideration for rules update - Knockouts

(Jan. 17, 2020  10:26 AM)Kei Wrote: .....

The fact that this is the case in WBBA rules also makes me wonder whether we should adopt the same ruling for the WBO more explicitly. Right now it says that:

Quote:A Beyblade is knocked-out when it exits the play area. Beyblades stuck on an element of a stadium are still considered in-play.

"play area" is actually a little bit vague.

Anyways, I've been so busy that I haven't been able to try and propel this conversation forward internally to make a decision regarding the WBO's rules, but will try to do so soon ...

I think further defining the play area will be great.  This also brings me think about wall bounce rule again. Is there an imaginary line at the wall that tells you this is out vs in?  Does it work more like tennis or basketball with this line if there is one?

Some photos to show what I am trying to get at:
[Image: KVZVWTG.jpg]
[Image: CrIQyHZ.jpg]
[Image: KVZVWTG.jpg]

A short video showing basically the same thing but perhaps easier to see:
https://youtu.be/W-25tnnSyDI

And Kei did this happen?  
[Image: pQ8DF3o.jpg]
so long as it doesn't actually touch the ground  if it just like only hits the wall and comes back in i think it should be fine

(Dec. 03, 2019  5:00 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: Well, I changed my mind based on judging convenience and sustainability rather than any of the points for it you raised. None of your arguments for it are convincing.

I get that you're only focused in the here and now and refuse to understand the historical reasons for this rule, but keep in mind the rule might need to be reimplemented later on if defense and stam layers completely overpower and overwhelm ko attack again.
A Beyblade is knocked-out when it exits the play area. Beyblades stuck on an element of a stadium are still considered in-play.

Beyblades that bounce back into the stadium after exiting the play area are still considered knocked-out
(Jan. 17, 2020  5:52 PM)Shindog Wrote:
(Jan. 17, 2020  10:26 AM)Kei Wrote: .....

The fact that this is the case in WBBA rules also makes me wonder whether we should adopt the same ruling for the WBO more explicitly. Right now it says that:


"play area" is actually a little bit vague.

Anyways, I've been so busy that I haven't been able to try and propel this conversation forward internally to make a decision regarding the WBO's rules, but will try to do so soon ...

I think further defining the play area will be great.  This also brings me think about wall bounce rule again. Is there an imaginary line at the wall that tells you this is out vs in?  Does it work more like tennis or basketball with this line if there is one?

A Beyblade is knocked-out when it exits the play area. Beyblades stuck on an element of a stadium are still considered in-play.
if it bounces back it technically doesn't  exit the play area if it doesn't touch the ground outside of it should still be considered  in play
(Jan. 17, 2020  6:20 PM)craZblader456 Wrote: so long as it doesn't actually touch the ground  if it just like only hits the wall and comes back in i think it should be fine

(Dec. 03, 2019  5:00 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: Well, I changed my mind based on judging convenience and sustainability rather than any of the points for it you raised. None of your arguments for it are convincing.

I get that you're only focused in the here and now and refuse to understand the historical reasons for this rule, but keep in mind the rule might need to be reimplemented later on if defense and stam layers completely overpower and overwhelm ko attack again.
A Beyblade is knocked-out when it exits the play area. Beyblades stuck on an element of a stadium are still considered in-play.

Beyblades that bounce back into the stadium after exiting the play area are still considered knocked-out
(Jan. 17, 2020  5:52 PM)Shindog Wrote: I think further defining the play area will be great.  This also brings me think about wall bounce rule again. Is there an imaginary line at the wall that tells you this is out vs in?  Does it work more like tennis or basketball with this line if there is one?

A Beyblade is knocked-out when it exits the play area. Beyblades stuck on an element of a stadium are still considered in-play.
if it bounces back it technically doesn't  exit the play area if it doesn't touch the ground outside of it should still be considered  in play

Shush! Don't at me on a month old post in a thread I have no interest in debating with people in. If you aren't going to check the date a post was made, Don't Post. And if you can't clear up the text formatting with the "Remove Formatting" button in the post editor, Don't Post.

I'm fine with the rules going either way, but don't quote or at me on this again, I'm really not interested in this discussion.

And if you're going to try to quote the rules to prove your point, don't cherry-pick only the parts you like, paste the full thing. Here's the full ruling on Knock-outs:
Knocked-Out
"A Beyblade is knocked-out when it exits the play area. Beyblades stuck on an element of a stadium are still considered in-play.

Beyblades that bounce back into the stadium after exiting the play area are still considered knocked-out. However, if a Beyblade exits the play area and bounces back in before touching the opposing Beyblade in any fashion, the round will continue."

The play area is not well defined within the existing rules (it should be, but that'll be another paragraph of text most bladers never bother to read). But the play area doesn't include the wall, the wall counts as an element of the stadium. Hitting the wall of the stadium doesn't count as being stuck on the wall of the stadium. If it bounced back in, it definitely left the play area, as the rules stand currently.
(Jan. 17, 2020  10:26 AM)Kei Wrote: It was also interesting to me that in one round I was KOed but got stuck between the back wall and the edge of the stadium floor ... so I didn't touch the ground and it was considered a OS instead! In 5G it might actually be beneficial to try and use bigger Layers like Imperial to increase the chances of this happening for you.

The fact that this is the case in WBBA rules also makes me wonder whether we should adopt the same ruling for the WBO more explicitly. Right now it says that:

Quote:A Beyblade is knocked-out when it exits the play area. Beyblades stuck on an element of a stadium are still considered in-play.

"play area" is actually a little bit vague.

Anyways, I've been so busy that I haven't been able to try and propel this conversation forward internally to make a decision regarding the WBO's rules, but will try to do so soon ...

I meant to respond to this earlier but forgot. This is a bit of a mixed bag when it comes to the WBBA rules as it seems odd an outspin can occur while the bey is not on the stadium floor. Although it's not official, I've called a beyblade in that position, in "danger" and it works well for my groups play. The idea is that a beyblade in "danger" is when it gets hit into a pocket but doesn't leave for an extended amount of time. Being in "danger" means you can't win via outspin, but you're not eliminated yet.

If your opponent knocks you into a state of danger and then stops spinning without your bey returning to the arena, they win. If they were to stop spinning but then your bey jumps out of the pocket, you would instead receive the victory as you recovered from danger, still spinning. If you were knocked into a state of danger but then your opponent goes flying out of the ring a few seconds later, it would count as a KO in favor of the one who hit the other out first should neither of them recover. If you're in a state of danger and burst against the wall from continuous spinning, it would be considered a knockout. If you're in a state of danger and the opponent who is still on the stadium floor bursts, it's considered a burst priority finish.

Like I said, this isn't official, but a lot of thought and discussion has been put into this between myself and my group of friends. These rules have worked out excellent for us and have made the game interesting, exciting, and without a doubt fair for both players involved.

Edit - Wrote them down severely wrong, my mind just mixed up the knockout system.
It is fine that you play in that way with your friends but in you attempt to make things more "fair" you makd a more complex situation.

The pocket is out of bounds. If a beyblade is hit into the pocket or flings itself into the pocket after first contact it is considered a knockout and points are awarded as such.
Think of it as lIke soccer. A goal is a goal. If the ball enters the goal then it is a goal. If a beyblade enters the pocket then it is a knockout regardless of if it bounces out or not.

That is the simplest way to describe it.
The creators of Soccer didn't intend for the ball to leave the goal area and still be considered active. That's an important factor. The current rules of intended play are backwards.
(Jan. 23, 2020  8:16 AM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote: The creators of Soccer didn't intend for the ball to leave the goal area and still be considered active. That's an important factor. The current rules of intended play are backwards.

Wait what? When the beyblade hits the stadium pocket, it's a KO. When a soccer ball passes the goal line, it's a goal. WBBA rules allow the "soccer ball" to still be in play if it bounces out of the goal line. WBO doesn't.
Exactly. Play in Soccer was intended for the ball to go into the goal zone and that be the point. In beyblade, play was intended to go into the goal zone with the ability to return to play if it can. The WBO rules have intended play backwards.
So recently I have started a new Series called Beyblade Science on my Channel and the topic of the one I did yesterday was specifically for this rule change proposal. It was a bit difficult to do this as I was tired, waiting on the news for Lui, Free, and Sisco, it was my first Beyblade Science video so I could've messed up a bit, and it was a bit difficult to keep track of the beys when they bounced back but I managed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHyJw5bTAG0

If there is anything you think I need to change or redo let me know and I'll do a 2nd test and post the results here.
(Jan. 22, 2020  9:18 PM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote:
(Jan. 17, 2020  10:26 AM)Kei Wrote: It was also interesting to me that in one round I was KOed but got stuck between the back wall and the edge of the stadium floor ... so I didn't touch the ground and it was considered a OS instead! In 5G it might actually be beneficial to try and use bigger Layers like Imperial to increase the chances of this happening for you.

The fact that this is the case in WBBA rules also makes me wonder whether we should adopt the same ruling for the WBO more explicitly. Right now it says that:


"play area" is actually a little bit vague.

Anyways, I've been so busy that I haven't been able to try and propel this conversation forward internally to make a decision regarding the WBO's rules, but will try to do so soon ...

I meant to respond to this earlier but forgot. This is a bit of a mixed bag when it comes to the WBBA rules as it seems odd an outspin can occur while the bey is not on the stadium floor. Although it's not official, I've called a beyblade in that position, in "danger" and it works well for my groups play. The idea is that a beyblade in "danger" is when it gets hit into a pocket but doesn't leave for an extended amount of time. Being in "danger" means you can't win via outspin, but you're not eliminated yet.

If your opponent knocks you into a state of danger and then stops spinning without your bey returning to the arena, they win. If they were to stop spinning but then your bey jumps out of the pocket, you would instead receive the victory as you recovered from danger, still spinning. If you were knocked into a state of danger but then your opponent goes flying out of the ring a few seconds later, it would count as a KO in favor of the one who hit the other out first should neither of them recover. If you're in a state of danger and burst against the wall from continuous spinning, it would be considered a knockout. If you're in a state of danger and the opponent who is still on the stadium floor bursts, it's considered a burst priority finish.

Like I said, this isn't official, but a lot of thought and discussion has been put into this between myself and my group of friends. These rules have worked out excellent for us and have made the game interesting, exciting, and without a doubt fair for both players involved.

Edit - Wrote them down severely wrong, my mind just mixed up the knockout system.

i think thats a perfect rule