Nice format

I wanna try and finally go to tournaments by 2024-2025 and i think this new format sounds awesome on its own.

Im thinking of running the following combos

Judgement Diabolos1.Blitz.Venture+V
Lord Spriggan.0Cross.Never
Zwei Bahamut.Sting.Xceed' Goku
Super Hyperion2.Blitz.Destroy'.1D
Perfect Phoenix.Outer.Bearing'

*Sting and Around exist* My dude uses Outer.

Sting is in use on his Zwei, while Around May be hard to find due to being locked in an RB and Jet

Okay I've sat down with Curse for a little bit (primarily Curse Lucifer2/Ragnaruk 00Wall Drift 1S weak launched) and yeah... I don't know why it was included. It really hurts Lightning L-Drago, which is otherwise one of the best attack layers in the format, and doesn't need to use a defensive driver to do so. That's not really the goal I feel like? It's also too good against zwei for my liking. Glide I don't like but can handle the presence of but Curse is kinda obnoxious and pushes the format too close to Standard IMO. It's also able to be heavier than anything Pre-SK.

I am also not sure what it brings. There are already right spin defensive options like Lord, pP, rP, aH, Heaven (plus goofy things using infinite locks on like almight which Curse also removes the need to do through being even heavier than Perfect Genesis), as well as using Imperial. And there are additional right stamina options like Cosmo and Burn Phoenix. If it removes LLD from the format then I feel like we've achieved a net loss by adding it...

It's not something I feel as strongly about as I did Metal Fury Scythe, but it is an odd decision to have something that was considered good defensively thrown in to a format that has its drivers balanced by the strength of its aggressive layers... We have areas that barely use rubber attack even in MFL, the current most aggressive format (and one which was balanced to be aggressive), do we really want those areas to end up playing a bunch of drift stuff (as most of them are unhappy about) by inserting more defensive parts like this? Not sure it's wise. But hey, this is what testing periods are for. I just hope the format's development is observed with these matters and impacts in mind - because we may not get to see something like LLD or Perfect Genesis shine (and therefore not see what we've lost).

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Who’s LLD?

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Also can we ban some of the LAD tips. There are WAY too many of them.

Who’s LLD?

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Also can we ban some of the LAD tips. There are WAY too many of them.

Sorry, I forget that newer players aren't familiar with well known MFB terminology. LLD is Lighting L-Drago, an MFB Remake, far and away the best of them. It looks round but it is extremely efficient in its hits, making it (barring the presence of curse) a real competitor for Zwei. 

LAD tips can be moderated by a format being balanced to be aggressive enough to KO them - which this format should be (and in my experience, without SK parts, it is). Drift shouldn't take hits well, unless a layer present is too defensively strong.


Separate to this, I've now tried Brave, and the 35g+ weight it can reach as a layer setup is a little much maybe. That said... I think it's less bad for the format than Curse (still not good, but Brave was once used for stamina, and it can still be kinda surprising on Dr).

That said, maybe I am being too focussed on LLD, even Death Dragon 00Wall Drift 1S gives it problems. Perhaps it just doesn't get to shine here 😅 Not that this makes curse much less of an issue, IMO it's too good vs zwei to be a reasonable inclusion.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Who’s LLD?

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Also can we ban some of the LAD tips. There are WAY too many of them.

Sorry, I forget that newer players aren't familiar with well known MFB terminology. LLD is Lighting L-Drago, an MFB Remake, far and away the best of them. It looks round but it is extremely efficient in its hits, making it (barring the presence of curse) a real competitor for Zwei. 

LAD tips can be moderated by a format being balanced to be aggressive enough to KO them - which this format should be (and in my experience, without SK parts, it is). Drift shouldn't take hits well, unless a layer present is too defensively strong.


Separate to this, I've now tried Brave, and the 35g+ weight it can reach as a layer setup is a little much maybe. That said... I think it's less bad for the format than Curse (still not good, but Brave was once used for stamina, and it can still be kinda surprising on Dr).

That said, maybe I am being too focussed on LLD, even Death Dragon 00Wall Drift 1S gives it problems. Perhaps it just doesn't get to shine here 😅 Not that this makes curse much less of an issue, IMO it's too good vs zwei to be a reasonable inclusion.

Edit: I read the rules wrong, Double chassis are banned, sorry about that


In same spin I agree that drift shouldn’t take hits. But in opposite spin it’s one of the best defense drivers there is. And if you paired curse satan with 1S and 00 wall, that just increases the weight much more and wall helps to scrape the stadium and not get knocked out. Plus it’s up against Zwei. And I don’t know for sure, but I’m pretty sure Drago is also a left bey. Im gonna try the combo you tested against judgement and see if curse is too much of a problem. But I do think it’d be more accurate in terms of what you’d generally be using for curse and what KO attack would be up against to pair curse with something like curse Lucifer2/Ragnarok Xt+ 2A. My 2A is 4 stars, but if others isn’t then 2S should do I think. I’ll start those tests right now.


Consider this more of informal testing, meaning without specifically how many rounds or KO’s but just generally how well each combo did
Curse Lucifer2 00 wall drift 1S/Xtend+(Stamina) 2A vs. Judgement Spriggan Blitz Quick’ Goku
00 wall drift 1S: Most of the time Judgement hit curse out of control, but to my surprise it didn’t actually get knocked out. And some rounds curse stood its ground for about 3 seconds. Either way judgement won by OS, usually by drift getting knocked out of control due to the recoil but it didn’t actually get KO’d. A big part of this could be the fact that I weak launched drift, as it would go out of control with LC2 if medium launched. So that reduces recoil. As well as LC2 and 1S increasing the weight. A normal Gt bey would be in the low 60s in terms of grams, curse is 71 grams. That’s a lot of weight. I’ll try the tests with Ragnarok and 1D to balance out the weight more and see if Curse or drift is the problem. 

Curse Ragnarok 00 wall drift 1D vs. Judgement Spriggan Blitz Quick’ Goku
Before I talk about it, just to compare the weight and show it’s more balanced Curse is 62 grams now and judgement remains 59. 

Judgement did get a couple more KO’s, but this time judgement got itself recoil KO’d more times. That’s weird since curse is lighter. maybe curse is the problem? 

Lord Dragon 00 wall drift vs Judgement Spriggan Blitz Quick’ Goku
Lords weight is 61, judgement is 59. Grams. 

Lord did the same thing. It didn’t get knocked out, but it also didn’t get knocked out of control that much. That is so wierd. I’m gonna just switch to 0 cross Xtend+ and see if drift is the problem because I think it might be, especially paired with 00 wall. 

Curse Ragnarok Xtend+ 2A vs Judgment 
 Yeah curse got destroyed. To be fair, it helots ground better than lord but still. I didn’t count specifically but I’d say judgment got 6 KO’s and curse got 4 OS’s. But curse on 2A is really tight and judgment actually pushed it to the halfway bursting point twice.

Lord Dragon 0 cross Xtend+ vs Judgment 
Yeah lord got 2 OS’s. I think that’s all I need to say. 

So what did we learn? 00 wall drift is OP. Not for stamina, for defense. I didn’t try out Zwei because mine is basically like hollow. Even on a perfectly balanced outer revolve sen it’s jumpy. So on and KO attack drivers it’s flowering is messed up. But yeah we learned 00 wall drift 1S has OP defense, but horrible stamina. And that curse is better than lord for KO defense overall. Even though it only got knocked out 2 times less, overall it just took hits better.

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Blader for 8+years, CA Organizer, hoping to improve at the game and meet more people along the way. Let It Rip!

Gonna try making combos and adding existing combos to a list of combos I’ll be trying(if I have time for competitive lol)(And if I even get curse)
Judgement Diabolos1 Blitz Xtreme’
Super Hyperion1 Sting Quick’ 1D
Master Diabolos2 00Wall Bearing’
Lord Spriggan 0Cross Xtend+
Zwei Diabolos1 Blitz Xceed’+Z
Curse Hyperion1 Sting Drift 1S
Tact Longinus Around Keep’ Goku

Sorry, I forget that newer players aren't familiar with well known MFB terminology. LLD is Lighting L-Drago, an MFB Remake, far and away the best of them. It looks round but it is extremely efficient in its hits, making it (barring the presence of curse) a real competitor for Zwei. 

LAD tips can be moderated by a format being balanced to be aggressive enough to KO them - which this format should be (and in my experience, without SK parts, it is). Drift shouldn't take hits well, unless a layer present is too defensively strong.


Separate to this, I've now tried Brave, and the 35g+ weight it can reach as a layer setup is a little much maybe. That said... I think it's less bad for the format than Curse (still not good, but Brave was once used for stamina, and it can still be kinda surprising on Dr).

That said, maybe I am being too focussed on LLD, even Death Dragon 00Wall Drift 1S gives it problems. Perhaps it just doesn't get to shine here 😅 Not that this makes curse much less of an issue, IMO it's too good vs zwei to be a reasonable inclusion.

In same spin I agree that drift shouldn’t take hits. But in opposite spin it’s one of the best defense drivers there is. And if you paired curse satan with 1S and 00 wall, that just increases the weight much more and wall helps to scrape the stadium and not get knocked out. Plus it’s up against Zwei. And I don’t know for sure, but I’m pretty sure Drago is also a left bey. Im gonna try the combo you tested against judgement and see if curse is too much of a problem. But I do think it’d be more accurate in terms of what you’d generally be using for curse and what KO attack would be up against to pair curse with something like curse Lucifer2/Ragnarok Xt+ 2A. My 2A is 4 stars, but if others isn’t then 2S should do I think. I’ll start those tests right now.

I’m sorry, but no double chassis are allowed in BGT.

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Hey there! My name is BuilderROB and I am an organizer who hosts tournaments in North Carolina.

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In same spin I agree that drift shouldn’t take hits. But in opposite spin it’s one of the best defense drivers there is. And if you paired curse satan with 1S and 00 wall, that just increases the weight much more and wall helps to scrape the stadium and not get knocked out. Plus it’s up against Zwei. And I don’t know for sure, but I’m pretty sure Drago is also a left bey. Im gonna try the combo you tested against judgement and see if curse is too much of a problem. But I do think it’d be more accurate in terms of what you’d generally be using for curse and what KO attack would be up against to pair curse with something like curse Lucifer2/Ragnarok Xt+ 2A. My 2A is 4 stars, but if others isn’t then 2S should do I think. I’ll start those tests right now.

I’m sorry, but no double chassis are allowed in BGT.

Oh! Sorry I completely read the wrong. I didn’t see the part that said ban list lol. I guess that just makes curse worse though. I did the tests and with 2A curse was better than lord. So with something like 0 cross 1S I assume it’d worse or even.

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Blader for 8+years, CA Organizer, hoping to improve at the game and meet more people along the way. Let It Rip!

I think curse should be Ok, as it may invalidate the dragon emperor but better options exist for such a use.

Sorry, I forget that newer players aren't familiar with well known MFB terminology. LLD is Lighting L-Drago, an MFB Remake, far and away the best of them. It looks round but it is extremely efficient in its hits, making it (barring the presence of curse) a real competitor for Zwei. 

LAD tips can be moderated by a format being balanced to be aggressive enough to KO them - which this format should be (and in my experience, without SK parts, it is). Drift shouldn't take hits well, unless a layer present is too defensively strong.


Separate to this, I've now tried Brave, and the 35g+ weight it can reach as a layer setup is a little much maybe. That said... I think it's less bad for the format than Curse (still not good, but Brave was once used for stamina, and it can still be kinda surprising on Dr).

That said, maybe I am being too focussed on LLD, even Death Dragon 00Wall Drift 1S gives it problems. Perhaps it just doesn't get to shine here 😅 Not that this makes curse much less of an issue, IMO it's too good vs zwei to be a reasonable inclusion.

Edit: I read the rules wrong, Double chassis are banned, sorry about that


In same spin I agree that drift shouldn’t take hits. But in opposite spin it’s one of the best defense drivers there is. And if you paired curse satan with 1S and 00 wall, that just increases the weight much more and wall helps to scrape the stadium and not get knocked out. Plus it’s up against Zwei. And I don’t know for sure, but I’m pretty sure Drago is also a left bey. Im gonna try the combo you tested against judgement and see if curse is too much of a problem. But I do think it’d be more accurate in terms of what you’d generally be using for curse and what KO attack would be up against to pair curse with something like curse Lucifer2/Ragnarok Xt+ 2A. My 2A is 4 stars, but if others isn’t then 2S should do I think. I’ll start those tests right now.


Consider this more of informal testing, meaning without specifically how many rounds or KO’s but just generally how well each combo did
Curse Lucifer2 00 wall drift 1S/Xtend+(Stamina) 2A vs. Judgement Spriggan Blitz Quick’ Goku
00 wall drift 1S: Most of the time Judgement hit curse out of control, but to my surprise it didn’t actually get knocked out. And some rounds curse stood its ground for about 3 seconds. Either way judgement won by OS, usually by drift getting knocked out of control due to the recoil but it didn’t actually get KO’d. A big part of this could be the fact that I weak launched drift, as it would go out of control with LC2 if medium launched. So that reduces recoil. As well as LC2 and 1S increasing the weight. A normal Gt bey would be in the low 60s in terms of grams, curse is 71 grams. That’s a lot of weight. I’ll try the tests with Ragnarok and 1D to balance out the weight more and see if Curse or drift is the problem. 

Curse Ragnarok 00 wall drift 1D vs. Judgement Spriggan Blitz Quick’ Goku
Before I talk about it, just to compare the weight and show it’s more balanced Curse is 62 grams now and judgement remains 59. 

Judgement did get a couple more KO’s, but this time judgement got itself recoil KO’d more times. That’s weird since curse is lighter. maybe curse is the problem? 

Lord Dragon 00 wall drift vs Judgement Spriggan Blitz Quick’ Goku
Lords weight is 61, judgement is 59. Grams. 

Lord did the same thing. It didn’t get knocked out, but it also didn’t get knocked out of control that much. That is so wierd. I’m gonna just switch to 0 cross Xtend+ and see if drift is the problem because I think it might be, especially paired with 00 wall. 

Curse Ragnarok Xtend+ 2A vs Judgment 
 Yeah curse got destroyed. To be fair, it helots ground better than lord but still. I didn’t count specifically but I’d say judgment got 6 KO’s and curse got 4 OS’s. But curse on 2A is really tight and judgment actually pushed it to the halfway bursting point twice.

Lord Dragon 0 cross Xtend+ vs Judgment 
Yeah lord got 2 OS’s. I think that’s all I need to say. 

So what did we learn? 00 wall drift is OP. Not for stamina, for defense. I didn’t try out Zwei because mine is basically like hollow. Even on a perfectly balanced outer revolve sen it’s jumpy. So on and KO attack drivers it’s flowering is messed up. But yeah we learned 00 wall drift 1S has OP defense, but horrible stamina. And that curse is better than lord for KO defense overall. Even though it only got knocked out 2 times less, overall it just took hits better.

I don't have any trouble with lord drift same spin, by myself or with another player. I still don't see drift as having strong Defense same spin. 
It is something we can watch for results for before getting in another drift tizzy about I think. My concerns with curse stress primarily opposite spin.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

So what did we learn? 00 wall drift is OP. Not for stamina, for defense. I didn’t try out Zwei because mine is basically like hollow. Even on a perfectly balanced outer revolve sen it’s jumpy. So on and KO attack drivers it’s flowering is messed up. But yeah we learned 00 wall drift 1S has OP defense, but horrible stamina. And that curse is better than lord for KO defense overall. Even though it only got knocked out 2 times less, overall it just took hits better.

I don't have any trouble with lord drift same spin, by myself or with another player. I still don't see drift as having strong Defense same spin. 
It is something we can watch for results for before getting in another drift tizzy about I think. My concerns with curse stress primarily opposite spin.

Yeah, I think my launches were just off honestly. Those tests felt really wierd, not being able to knockout same spin drift. I mean it was knocking it around, just not out of the stadium. Rather, knocking it out of control. I do think curse overall has better defense than lord. 

Yeah getting into another drift tizzy really isn’t what we should be doing. Even with something like heaven on around drift with top tier opposite spin and great same spin it’s got weaknesses. But you think curse would be too good in opposite spin? Huh, that’s very unexpected. I think the opposite. From what I’ve battled and seen curse paired with 1S would have a bit better same spin and a bit better defense, but less opposite spin due to the ridgy shape and 5 wheels sticking out that kinda take away the equalizing.

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Blader for 8+years, CA Organizer, hoping to improve at the game and meet more people along the way. Let It Rip!

Maybe this format someone can pull a VGC pachirisu and win with a “Low tier” part (like Slash). Hoping that would happen as TOP tier parts being overused would make it boring (sans you judgment and zwei, I mean the LAD stuff you are supposed to take off)

I don't have any trouble with lord drift same spin, by myself or with another player. I still don't see drift as having strong Defense same spin. 
It is something we can watch for results for before getting in another drift tizzy about I think. My concerns with curse stress primarily opposite spin.

Yeah, I think my launches were just off honestly. Those tests felt really wierd, not being able to knockout same spin drift. I mean it was knocking it around, just not out of the stadium. Rather, knocking it out of control. I do think curse overall has better defense than lord. 

Yeah getting into another drift tizzy really isn’t what we should be doing. Even with something like heaven on around drift with top tier opposite spin and great same spin it’s got weaknesses. But you think curse would be too good in opposite spin? Huh, that’s very unexpected. I think the opposite. From what I’ve battled and seen curse paired with 1S would have a bit better same spin and a bit better defense, but less opposite spin due to the ridgy shape and 5 wheels sticking out that kinda take away the equalizing.

I think Curse has a great possibility in becoming a solid defender. Along with its layer's weight potential with Curse Solomon (MCC) 1S being heavier than Zwei DiabolosI (about 32g vs about 29g). Although I do believe it's defense capabilities end with Judgement's power, Any other attackers might have a decent counter.

Rewording last sentence: poses threat to other attackers

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I think Lucifer 1/2, Hyperion 2 and Helios 2 should be banned+Solomon as they have too much metal=may not be good. Diabolos and Spriggan should stay as we need flexibility.
(Bare minimum only Lucifers should stay, as MCC+ the rest=too OP’

Yeah, I think my launches were just off honestly. Those tests felt really wierd, not being able to knockout same spin drift. I mean it was knocking it around, just not out of the stadium. Rather, knocking it out of control. I do think curse overall has better defense than lord. 

Yeah getting into another drift tizzy really isn’t what we should be doing. Even with something like heaven on around drift with top tier opposite spin and great same spin it’s got weaknesses. But you think curse would be too good in opposite spin? Huh, that’s very unexpected. I think the opposite. From what I’ve battled and seen curse paired with 1S would have a bit better same spin and a bit better defense, but less opposite spin due to the ridgy shape and 5 wheels sticking out that kinda take away the equalizing.

I think Curse has a great possibility in becoming a solid defender. Along with its layer's weight potential with Curse Solomon (MCC) 1S being heavier than Zwei DiabolosI (about 32g vs about 29g). Although I do believe it's defense capabilities end with Judgement's power, Any other attackers might have a decent counter.

Rewording last sentence: poses threat to other attackers

My concern is that having a good opposite spin counter that also can do things like OS Opposite stamina, so is viable to use, is enough to crush out an attacker thru fear mostly. Curse can be stopped by judgment. So why would you use zwei (vs tact, maybe?). I don't think it is a healthy addition. 

Plus curse and death both stomp LLD 😭

Ideally, personally, I would like to see Curse, Death, and the chips with metal on them removed (esp Lucifer 2, Hyperion2, Helios2, Solomon). MCC are probably? okay enough tho, so maybe Spriggan and Lucifer are ok. That brings the weight down closer to most normal gt things. But, it is also important to watch the results and learn. If death only sees use as a niche part then it might not be a concern, and that could be the case. Curse tho I expect will see use.

Also, Drift didn't make a tremendous impact in the gt tournaments played prior to this (though they lacked the sk parts), so I am hoping they won't be such an issue. I'm really just using drift on curse because I see it as the lazy way to demonstrate this. It's not even using kp' or u' here - and those are the drivers where I think it's okay for attack to do a bit worse against, because they don't do a tonne else. I am hoping this format will see use of actual dedicated Defense types, not just weak launched LAD, which is another reason I don't like curse being this good.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Yeah, I think my launches were just off honestly. Those tests felt really wierd, not being able to knockout same spin drift. I mean it was knocking it around, just not out of the stadium. Rather, knocking it out of control. I do think curse overall has better defense than lord. 

Yeah getting into another drift tizzy really isn’t what we should be doing. Even with something like heaven on around drift with top tier opposite spin and great same spin it’s got weaknesses. But you think curse would be too good in opposite spin? Huh, that’s very unexpected. I think the opposite. From what I’ve battled and seen curse paired with 1S would have a bit better same spin and a bit better defense, but less opposite spin due to the ridgy shape and 5 wheels sticking out that kinda take away the equalizing.

I think Curse has a great possibility in becoming a solid defender. Along with its layer's weight potential with Curse Solomon (MCC) 1S being heavier than Zwei DiabolosI (about 32g vs about 29g). Although I do believe it's defense capabilities end with Judgement's power, Any other attackers might have a decent counter.

Rewording last sentence: poses threat to other attackers

Yeah curse could definitely be a solid defender. Against judgement it definitely won’t do as well as against stuff like imperial or Zwei, but I wouldn’t say it’s defense capabilities end with judgment. Curse in my opinion also poses a threat, not just as a solid defense type, but also as a solid same spin bey.

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Blader for 8+years, CA Organizer, hoping to improve at the game and meet more people along the way. Let It Rip!

Should also note I am somewhat concerned about Abyss, I don't have it myself but after asking for Zankye to test it, it seems to be heavy enough to tank Judgment too well. It does feel like these heavier parts we are introducing from Sparking may just be too much to not warp the format 😔

I don't know if it's too much to ask to not introduce a bunch of stuff that beats down attack in what is otherwise an aggressive format, where the lad drivers are specifically balanced by those attack layers we are introducing trouble for?
This is what experimental periods are for, sure, but I feel like I would have preferred to let the core of the format breathe first, then assess sk parts one by one based on how they interact with that? Don't get me wrong, I'm very very happy that GT is happening! This is just feedback which I am hoping is constructive.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Should also note I am somewhat concerned about Abyss, I don't have it myself but after asking for Zankye to test it, it seems to be heavy enough to tank Judgment too well. It does feel like these heavier parts we are introducing from Sparking may just be too much to not warp the format 😔

I don't know if it's too much to ask to not introduce a bunch of stuff that beats down attack in what is otherwise an aggressive format, where the lad drivers are specifically balanced by those attack layers we are introducing trouble for?
This is what experimental periods are for, sure, but I feel like I would have preferred to let the core of the format breathe first, then assess sk parts one by one based on how they interact with that? Don't get me wrong, I'm very very happy that GT is happening! This is just feedback which I am hoping is constructive.

Zwei: Am I a joke to you?

Also maybe rage can be here. Without 3A it’s just an inferior Zwei .

Should also note I am somewhat concerned about Abyss, I don't have it myself but after asking for Zankye to test it, it seems to be heavy enough to tank Judgment too well. It does feel like these heavier parts we are introducing from Sparking may just be too much to not warp the format 😔

I don't know if it's too much to ask to not introduce a bunch of stuff that beats down attack in what is otherwise an aggressive format, where the lad drivers are specifically balanced by those attack layers we are introducing trouble for?
This is what experimental periods are for, sure, but I feel like I would have preferred to let the core of the format breathe first, then assess sk parts one by one based on how they interact with that? Don't get me wrong, I'm very very happy that GT is happening! This is just feedback which I am hoping is constructive.

Zwei: Am I a joke to you?

Also maybe rage can be here. Without 3A it’s just an inferior Zwei .

I've said repeatedly that same-spin attack isn't a concern, so I am not talking about Zwei when I am talking about Abyss. There is reason to this - if something really beats attack in opposite while being able to do other things very well (Abyss outspins Tact in same spin, and Dr will let it beat a lot of things in opposite), why would you use attack when you could have the same reward with less risk using stamina? This is something I tried to be very wary of when I was working on MFL initially - attack has to have massive rewards for people to bother (and even in MFL the aggressive balancing wasn't enough for some areas unfortunately). It is part of the deeper level of analysis I've told you about before - one must consider the secondary and tertiary impacts of decisions.
Attack needs to Hard Counter stamina/LAD. I want defense to be present, but I want it to have to use dedicated defense drivers like Keep' and Unite' - an actual proper defense type, not weak launched LAD stuff. I think GT has a really serious shot at being a format capable of that, if we don't make it pointless.

You are very wrong on your second point. Rage hits harder on everything not called vanish without 3a, it's basically Flash. Prior to Vanish I vastly preferred Rage 1S to Rage 3A. I just spoke to someone about this on discord, but before making statements confidently on matters as important as format design, having actual data or experience is utterly critical.

Anyway, I do think Abyss should go, I have been shown that it outspins tact and handles judgment solidly (even without metal chips)... I think that is a big concern. Again we will see how tournaments go, but that seems way too much for me.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Ok, but at least Super, King and Glide are fair and balanced. Everything else....oh boy....

This is my take but I think for BGT to start off with we shouldn't allow any Superking stuff, if we are trying to experiment to see how BGT does with the gt layers and the new drivers and what not adding superking randomly at the start does not help with any data.

There are factors for example what about Metal Chip Core? what about Lucifer2? or Solomon? or other metal chips? SK layers even ones allowed are like a bit high in weight, especially with the metal weight on top of that.

More over I think it would be best before we allow Superking stuff there is a proper testing thread for each part to see if it is worth being legal in BGT.

What I think would've made more sense to me is we have these experiment events with BGT and after when it becomes official we could focus on adding extra stuff onto it if it is nesscssary.

Just my two cents on it, I am excited for the format but do wish these things were considered.

I think Curse has a great possibility in becoming a solid defender. Along with its layer's weight potential with Curse Solomon (MCC) 1S being heavier than Zwei DiabolosI (about 32g vs about 29g). Although I do believe it's defense capabilities end with Judgement's power, Any other attackers might have a decent counter.

Rewording last sentence: poses threat to other attackers

My concern is that having a good opposite spin counter that also can do things like OS Opposite stamina, so is viable to use, is enough to crush out an attacker thru fear mostly. Curse can be stopped by judgment. So why would you use zwei (vs tact, maybe?). I don't think it is a healthy addition. 

Plus curse and death both stomp LLD 😭

Ideally, personally, I would like to see Curse, Death, and the chips with metal on them removed (esp Lucifer 2, Hyperion2, Helios2, Solomon). MCC are probably? okay enough tho, so maybe Spriggan and Lucifer are ok. That brings the weight down closer to most normal gt things. But, it is also important to watch the results and learn. If death only sees use as a niche part then it might not be a concern, and that could be the case. Curse tho I expect will see use.

Also, Drift didn't make a tremendous impact in the gt tournaments played prior to this (though they lacked the sk parts), so I am hoping they won't be such an issue. I'm really just using drift on curse because I see it as the lazy way to demonstrate this. It's not even using kp' or u' here - and those are the drivers where I think it's okay for attack to do a bit worse against, because they don't do a tonne else. I am hoping this format will see use of actual dedicated Defense types, not just weak launched LAD, which is another reason I don't like curse being this good.

I agree with you that Solomon, Lucifer, Hyperion2, and Helios2 should be removed so the weight isn't as impactful. Diabolos, Spriggan, and maybe Lucifer1 should be fine to stay. When it comes to Curse I understand how you feel with the possibility Judgement is the only prominent counter. Although as more testings happen I would hope that other attackers can outdo Curse. Vice versa. Hopefully it doesn't come to the point where Curse has to be banned since seeing actual defense could be pretty interesting.

I swear somewhere I heard that Glide would've been better If it didn't have that burst resistance issue. I forgot who said that but I guess that's added balance? Unless you run it on Ig' and try using it as a Cosmo substitute.

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My concern is that having a good opposite spin counter that also can do things like OS Opposite stamina, so is viable to use, is enough to crush out an attacker thru fear mostly. Curse can be stopped by judgment. So why would you use zwei (vs tact, maybe?). I don't think it is a healthy addition. 

Plus curse and death both stomp LLD 😭

Ideally, personally, I would like to see Curse, Death, and the chips with metal on them removed (esp Lucifer 2, Hyperion2, Helios2, Solomon). MCC are probably? okay enough tho, so maybe Spriggan and Lucifer are ok. That brings the weight down closer to most normal gt things. But, it is also important to watch the results and learn. If death only sees use as a niche part then it might not be a concern, and that could be the case. Curse tho I expect will see use.

Also, Drift didn't make a tremendous impact in the gt tournaments played prior to this (though they lacked the sk parts), so I am hoping they won't be such an issue. I'm really just using drift on curse because I see it as the lazy way to demonstrate this. It's not even using kp' or u' here - and those are the drivers where I think it's okay for attack to do a bit worse against, because they don't do a tonne else. I am hoping this format will see use of actual dedicated Defense types, not just weak launched LAD, which is another reason I don't like curse being this good.

I agree with you that Solomon, Lucifer, Hyperion2, and Helios2 should be removed so the weight isn't as impactful. Diabolos, Spriggan, and maybe Lucifer1 should be fine to stay. When it comes to Curse I understand how you feel with the possibility Judgement is the only prominent counter. Although as more testings happen I would hope that other attackers can outdo Curse. Vice versa. Hopefully it doesn't come to the point where Curse has to be banned since seeing actual defense could be pretty interesting.

I swear somewhere I heard that Glide would've been better If it didn't have that burst resistance issue. I forgot who said that but I guess that's added balance? Unless you run it on Ig' and try using it as a Cosmo substitute.

Please see what I said in my last post around the issue with having something that counters an attack type this well, and how that affects the risk vs reward of attack vs stamina, I think it'll make my reasoning clearer

Glide seems mostly okay to me so far, it is kinda triangular haha. I want to play around with it more esp for stamina, but I am not overly concerned yet.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I think Glide is cleared, same with Super and King. The rest of the Superking Rings.....umm....Get out.
Also no MCC, metal chips pls. And metal drivers, since our answers to their wear are banned they shouldn’t be here.