I know both sP and Qc' are banned RN, but I'm sure 10G will be safe.

I know both sP and Qc' are banned RN, but I'm sure 10G will be safe.

Also banned. Numbered core discs and frames have been banned in classic since it's inception. Was this an unmarked joke?

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I know both sP and Qc' are banned RN, but I'm sure 10G will be safe.

Also banned. Numbered core discs and frames have been banned in classic since it's inception. Was this an unmarked joke?

Yeah.

But Qc' is safe right?

There has been no official ruling on a Qc' exception yet, so right now it falls under standard dash driver bans.

Please be patient.

Watch it be a better hunter seeing as it is less in diameter compared to Xtreme, but larger in diameter compared to Hunter

There has been no official ruling on a Qc' exception yet, so right now it falls under standard dash driver bans.

Please be patient.

Watch it be a better hunter seeing as it is less in diameter compared to Xtreme, but larger in diameter compared to Hunter

No, it's the same as X I believe

But Qc' is safe right?

There has been no official ruling on a Qc' exception yet, so right now it falls under standard dash driver bans.

Please be patient.

I just kind of thought it might be safe because it's essentially a wider Xtreme. Maybe shorter too.

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Beyblade Theory Combos:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Twin Nemesis 0Turn Xtend
Geist Fafnir 7Wall Merge'
Dead Phoenix 13Expand αnchor
Buster Xcalibur 1'αngle Operate
Ace Valkyrie 10Dagger Reboot' Sen
Bloody Longinus 11 Tower
Geist Fafnir Nine Quest

The list will be updated

Now, for some words of wisdom from Nam (me),

Spoiler (Click to View)

• There is no such thing as a bad part... except for Blow, Blow' and Sword
  
• You dare not even put Impact in the same category as those above. Impact is the worst of the worst, not even worth the title "Bad Part"
  
• Theory combos might be unexpectedly good if you just give them a try or two.
  
• Theory is love, theory is life.
  

Don't make assumptions. Wait for an official ruling.

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Yes, like @[DeceasedCrab] said, you need wait official rules. But this need some time, because new releases need much of testing, to see, how these affect meta and gameplay. If this too strong, this need banned. But until official ruling is released, you can't use this in Classic format tournaments, because this is ' (dash) driver, what most is banned. But here is one exception: in IT'S TIME TO RIP IT! AGAIN and Days of Dash tournaments is all dash drivers allowed. If you want use it there, LET'S GO!

Days of Dash
London, UK - 04/05/19

1st - ~Mana~
Victory Valkyrie Gravity Planet
Victory Valkyrie Gravity Xtreme'
Roktavor Central Accel
Valkyrie Knuckle Zeta'
Valkyrie Spread Zeta'
Kaiser Kerbeus Heavy Orbit (Deck Format Only)
Deathscyther Heavy Charge

2nd - @[Ultra]
Victory Valkyrie Gravity Planet
Kaiser Kerbeus Spread Orbit (Deck Format Only)
Beast Behemoth Heavy Xtreme'

3rd - @[Basedsamuraij]
Acid Anubis Gravity Orbit
Deathscyther Knuckle Revolve
Deathscyther Spread Revolve
Kaiser Kerbeus Gravity Orbit (Deck Format Only)
Kaiser Kerbeus Spread Orbit
Neptune Spread Revolve
Neptune Yell Eternal
Odin Heavy Defense
Valkyrie Quarter Reboot
Valkyrie Spread Zeta'

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So, as the event name suggests, we unbanned Dash Drivers for this event. How did it go? Let me start off by saying that yes, Dash Drivers need restrictions. There's no doubt about that - especially after this event - but it's the area in which they're needed that is questionable and potentially controversial.

It's really hard to judge all Dash Drivers from events like this, because it's a one-shot event using these rules, where people are obviously thrown in the deep end with these restrictions and aren't sure what to make of them. Their use still isn't as you'd expect with them banned, largely because people aren't thinking about them primarily.

Throughout the day, I personally used Zephyr', Xtreme' and Zeta'. I also let another participant borrow Destroy'. Outside of those four, I can't say I saw any other Dash usage for the day.

Zephyr' wasn't anywhere near as potent as I'd expect. I expected this to make for some really good mobile stamina combos using Deathscyther or Zillion Zeus, but that wasn't the case. It's stamina is fantastic for sure, but I feel it's perhaps countered too hard. Against Attack combinations, it struggles by getting ragdolled for being outpaced by the likes of Xtreme and Accel combinations, and gets punished with KOs for that. Against stationary combinations; K2 Orbit is really prominent because it shuts down V2 Planet pretty hard, and also holds its own against V2/B2 Xtreme.

Zephyr' lacks the means to get over these. It doesn't have the aggression to get through popular defensive combinations, and it's stamina will not rival Orbit's either. It becomes a part that you have to do some funky stuff with to make viable. That said, we didn't see that much of it yesterday, so I can't comment that much further. My mindset though is that it wouldn't upset the metagame that much to unban it, but it needs some extensive testing before I'd be ready to commit to that.

Xtreme' is, as you'd expect, the best attack option in the game, and it's a tricky part to use. With how much lighter the Beys are in Classic, I feel that you have to be even more mindful of a self KO here than you would in Burst Standard. I'd entered this event with the mindset that Xtreme' might be becoming a problem and need a hit on the banlist, as it feels like there's nothing that V2 Xtreme' can't beat, but I'm content with where we are with this part; it rewards those who take the time to learn how to use it, and isn't a part that everyone and anyone can use. In my eyes, that balances it.

Zeta' was a part I didn't think would be an issue at all, and I said this to @[The Supreme One] before the event as well In Standard, it's pretty garbage, and it's spring isn't as potent as the other Dash springs we see, so I wasn't scared. And oh boy was I wrong; Zeta' works almost too well in Classic. If you thought Valkyrie Trans was a threat, you haven't had to deal with Valkyrie Zeta'. I used V.K.Zt' for the sake of getting some data to show that it genuinely isn't an issue...but it really defied my expectations, and I'd owe the majority of my win to this combo. Others using Valkyrie Zeta' also had the same level of success with it, albeit latching on to this a bit late.

It wasn't used on anything except Valkyrie, but that was enough for us to realise it was too Burst resistant and too flexible. Nobody expected to be taking Zeta' seriously, and there's no way this part should be allowed in Classic going forward.

Destroy' has arguably suffered from not being great on anything that isn't left-spinning due to there being better options. Classic doesn't change that; outside of use on Dragoon F/S, Destroy doesn't see that much use. If L2 was allowed in Classic then it'd be a different matter entirely, but Destroy doesn't feel like it can compete otherwise. I'm hard pressed for reasons not to allow it but, as with Zephyr', I think it needs some extensive testing before committing to that stance.

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Based on what I've seen with Dash involvement, I'd consider going as far as the following:

As mentioned before; lack of good left-spin options (due to L2's exclusion) gives very little reason for many of these to be banned. Destroy wouldn't upset anything, Zephyr doesn't have the Layer options to make it a stamina threat, and I don't believe any of the others will cause any concern within the meta, largely because most are functionally outclassed and still won't see use.

But I'd like to see how the Toronto winning combos look before commenting any further, if you wouldn't mind sharing them @[Kei]. Would be interesting to see how your own Dash-permitted experience went, and if you saw use of some other Drivers that we didn't see in London.

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Hoshi-no-Yume FS | Wiki Profile | Twitter | Burst Collection | Osu! | MyAnimeList

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I posted my tournament report for IT'S TIME TO RIP IT! AGAIN here: http://bit.ly/itstimetoripitagain

It seems to me like your event was a bit more competitive overall than ours, but it was interesting to read your impressions of Zephyr'. For me, it was pretty potent on O.Y.Z' and certainly was the best Layer for it that I was able to find in my testing. I didn't really try Deathscyther on Z', but it felt like other Layers I tried all weren't able to keep their balance as well on it when banked, which made them get OSed more easily if it couldn't KO/Burst the opponent. That being said, as I mentioned in my report, I do think that maybe if my X' wielding opponents were able to stall better they might have had more success against me. However, regardless it does get OSed by top tier stamina combos, so at this point I'm certainly leaning closer to unban than to ban for Z'.

Zeta' was the most interesting Dash Driver to me going into the event. I tested a tiny bit with Valkyrie Zeta' and didn't love it (it was self-bursting for me despite being a relatively new Valkyrie), but with Z2 it was able to both OS or Burst things depending on the matchup. I didn't test it much and only used it for one match at the tournament, but it held the most potential for me conceptually. I'd certainly like to test with it more before I make any final judgments on it. Even if Valkyrie Zeta' is indeed great, it doesn't concern me much because I know it would be destroyed by things like Xtreme'. But again, I need to test with it more and think things through more about how it could be utilized and where it fits into the metagame.

And lol, I completely forgot about Kaiser Kerbeus again (and apparently so did everyone at our tournament). Need to get around to testing that.

Nobody used Destroy' at our event, but I see no reason to leave it banned.

Overall, my impression is just ... I need more data and testing, but nothing screams "this must be banned" to me at the moment.

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I can't say I've tried Odin Zephyr', so maybe that'll make it more viable. But I'd also largely put it down to how differing our metagames are; from what I can see (and pretty much always see), Toronto has a stamina meta most of the time, whereas London sees a far more aggressive attack meta most of the time, so that'd definitely make a difference. It'd also be why K2 Orbit is far more prevalent here than there, as it's pretty much required to counter some attack stuff that you guys aren't using over there.

Zeta'...yeah. The combo was something I came up with on the spot and hadn't tested it at all prior. I was just putting a twist on the VKN/VKT combo of old to get a feel for it and rule out Zeta' as being viable (largely based on it seeming trash in Standard), and it felt like I created a monster. Used in Massive mode the majority of the time and easily stalling it, and just swapping as necessary. Leaving it in Classic just feels like it'd be abused a little too much to be honest, but it's definitely a case of needing more testing at this time.

But yeah, I can agree with the overall; I can understand the hesitation on permitting Dash Drivers in general, but the majority of them are probably okay to allow. I'm dubious on Zephyr', Accel' and Destroy' regardless of them making a splash and would like to see more data on them, and I'm pretty against allowing Zeta' until we've tested it a lot more. The rest seem fine to unban soon, testing permitting.

---

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Yeah, it was a bit strange ... like our first Burst Classic event there was a lot of people using Attack this time, but not many were successful enough with it to make it to the finals, and the people that did weren't able to successfully use it against me. If you look at the winning combos from our first Burst Classic event, you can see the significant presence of Attack types.

That being said, one thing worth mentioning is that 1234beyblade couldn't make it out for this latest event, so chances are there would have been more on the winning combos list if he was playing.

Even though we have questions about them right now, I'm inclined to just unban all of the Dash Drivers officially for now and then move on to the next step of experimentation, which in my opinion should be testing an unban of Dark Deathscyther or maybe Atomic. If anything needs a buff right now, it is Stamina, so I think it would be interesting to try out unbanning one or both of those.

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Yeah, it was a bit strange ... like our first Burst Classic event there was a lot of people using Attack this time, but not many were successful enough with it to make it to the finals, and the people that did weren't able to successfully use it against me. If you look at the winning combos from our first Burst Classic event, you can see the significant presence of Attack types.

That being said, one thing worth mentioning is that 1234beyblade couldn't make it out for this latest event, so chances are there would have been more on the winning combos list if he was playing.

Even though we have questions about them right now, I'm inclined to just unban all of the Dash Drivers officially for now and then move on to the next step of experimentation, which in my opinion should be testing an unban of Dark Deathscyther or maybe Atomic. If anything needs a buff right now, it is Stamina, so I think it would be interesting to try out unbanning one or both of those.

If we were to unban all the dash drivers,D2 and At, would we also possibly see an unban of Hasbro J2 as well?

Hasbro atomic itself has a very weak spring, and coupled with the weak slopes of the early wave beys it wouldn’t be too op. It is basically like TT’s bearing, good but weak burst resistance. I personally see no reason to ban Hasbro atomic.

Hasbro atomic itself has a very weak spring, and coupled with the weak slopes of the early wave beys it wouldn’t be too op. It is basically like TT’s bearing, good but weak burst resistance. I personally see no reason to ban Hasbro atomic.

Except someone could make a combo with Gaianon Yell/Central(for lad) gravity Atomic.

Hasbro atomic itself has a very weak spring, and coupled with the weak slopes of the early wave beys it wouldn’t be too op. It is basically like TT’s bearing, good but weak burst resistance. I personally see no reason to ban Hasbro atomic.

Yeah, and if they do unban TT At, they should unban Hasbro Br as well.

Hasbro atomic itself has a very weak spring, and coupled with the weak slopes of the early wave beys it wouldn’t be too op. It is basically like TT’s bearing, good but weak burst resistance. I personally see no reason to ban Hasbro atomic.

Yeah, and if they do unban TT At, they should unban Hasbro Br as well.

Lets not do Hasbro bearing. Hasbro bearing is just too op in classic. With a tighter spring. I think atomic is good enough.

The Atomics were banned in Classic for a reason. Hasbro Bearing was banned in Classic for a reason. There's not a good reason to unban any of those in Classic. Atomic does not have a weak spring compared to TT Bearing, it doesn't really have a weak spring in general.

Could we not go down this road again? Let's just focus on the dash drivers and which should/shouldn't be banned.

I'm just sitting back watching people talk themselves into unbanning Destroy', laughing at how destructive that's going to be to the meta.

---

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Yeah, and if they do unban TT At, they should unban Hasbro Br as well.

Lets not do Hasbro bearing. Hasbro bearing is just too op in classic. With a tighter spring. I think atomic is good enough.

Not really. Not only does At OS it same spin, but LAD has a much less effect in classic. Plus Hasbro has no good stamina drivers, and things like D1 and C1 won't really be good on it because their burst resistance is just that bad. Plus the bad KO defense of Br would make it weaker to attack than At

Based on what I've seen with Dash involvement, I'd consider going as far as the following:

As mentioned before; lack of good left-spin options (due to L2's exclusion) gives very little reason for many of these to be banned. Destroy wouldn't upset anything, Zephyr doesn't have the Layer options to make it a stamina threat, and I don't believe any of the others will cause any concern within the meta, largely because most are functionally outclassed and still won't see use.

But I'd like to see how the Toronto winning combos look before commenting any further, if you wouldn't mind sharing them @[Kei]. Would be interesting to see how your own Dash-permitted experience went, and if you saw use of some other Drivers that we didn't see in London.

The chart doesn't make sense based on the results. You said it yourself that Zephyr' and Destroy' did not perform up to what you expected, so a better way of interpreting the data would be to unban them with further testing in mind. Zeta' I can see being an issue. There was some discussion about allowing Atomic, but I feel like that driver is probably much better than Zeta'.

What is very confusing is the ban on Accel' despite the fact, as you said, you didn't see any dash drivers but X', Ds', Z', and Zt'. Why ban a driver that isn't good enough for people to be using?

The rest of the chart makes sense. Like I said before, the rest of the dash drivers suck compared to X', so there was no point in banning them.

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Yeah, it was a bit strange ... like our first Burst Classic event there was a lot of people using Attack this time, but not many were successful enough with it to make it to the finals, and the people that did weren't able to successfully use it against me. If you look at the winning combos from our first Burst Classic event, you can see the significant presence of Attack types.

That being said, one thing worth mentioning is that 1234beyblade couldn't make it out for this latest event, so chances are there would have been more on the winning combos list if he was playing.

Even though we have questions about them right now, I'm inclined to just unban all of the Dash Drivers officially for now and then move on to the next step of experimentation, which in my opinion should be testing an unban of Dark Deathscyther or maybe Atomic. If anything needs a buff right now, it is Stamina, so I think it would be interesting to try out unbanning one or both of those.

If Stamina sucks, try testing an unbanning of Xt+ (well, do test battles first to see if this is feasible). Unbanning Atomic is just a huge buff to Defense types which have Zeta' (might be banned) and Orbit.

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Give us Assault' re-release, Iron', and Charge'. Give a non-limited re-release of Cho-Z Achilles.
Legend Spriggan on tall attack drivers for Burst Limited is fun.
Against layer powercreep in Burst Limited.

If we were to unban all the dash drivers,D2 and At, would we also possibly see an unban of Hasbro J2 as well?

I actually don't have Hasbro J2, so I can't comment on it.

Could we not go down this road again? Let's just focus on the dash drivers and which should/shouldn't be banned.

I'm just sitting back watching people talk themselves into unbanning Destroy', laughing at how destructive that's going to be to the meta.

Burst Classic is still in an experimental phase, so I think it's fine to consider unbanning things for test events for the sake of gathering real tournament data. We know we have a decent base to work with already, so I think that there's no need right now to be super serious about what is/isn't banned (within reason); it's fine to make somewhat dramatic, questionable changes to see what effect they will have in practice. Then, it will be easier to take a serious look and refine the final ban list before allowing the events to be ranked.

Could you elaborate on your opinion of Destroy' a little bit? It doesn't seem immediately obvious to me what would make it destructive given the lack of good left-spin Layers in the format, but I admittedly have not tested with it for BSC yet. I could certainly be missing something here.

What is very confusing is the ban on Accel' despite the fact, as you said, you didn't see any dash drivers but X', Ds', Z', and Zt'. Why ban a driver that isn't good enough for people to be using?

I get where you're coming from and also did find it weird to see his suggestion that A' be banned, but I think it's also important to remember the small sample size. Two events with no A' doesn't necessarily mean it "isn't good enough for people to be using". Especially because A' is not widely available.

In any case, I don't personally think it should be banned at the moment.

If Stamina sucks, try testing an unbanning of Xt+ (well, do test battles first to see if this is feasible). Unbanning Atomic is just a huge buff to Defense types which have Zeta' (might be banned) and Orbit.

Yeah, that's an option too as I don't think it is too threatening. But I don't know how much that would help. I probably should have said both Stamina and Defense in my other post. Even pure Defense types right now don't feel as threatening as they should. Attack is just so good.

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Destroy is a fairly decent attack tip, and a fairly decent stamina tip. I've considered using it in classic many times, but the weak teeth on some of my more aggressive layers gives me pause. If you allow Destroy' in classic, it'll also add superior burst defense, making it somewhat overpowered.

It might not match Orbit for stamina, but it sure comes close. And one tactic I've noticed with Destroy is that you can intentionally circle your opponent for a while so they lose their own stamina, and then come in for an attack later.

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I don’t think you understand, gaianon has pretty meh slopes, couple with hoe thin they are it just wont be great on atomic. I used Gainon G2.Polish.Wedge-s for a pure tightness combo, and although it was very tight, it would still consistently burst against v2.h.x’. Wedge-s and eternal-s are tied to have the tightest springs for hasbro, just barley beating bearing, however Gaianon still bursts very easily. So Atomic on Gaianon would fair well, in god format yes it would be quite broken as many beys have tight slopes, however because classic is focused on dual and basic layers, there is no point in banning hasbro atomic.

Is atomic-s banned?

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2 Versus 2 format should be a thing. Change my mind.

I don’t think you understand, gaianon has pretty meh slopes, couple with hoe thin they are it just wont be great on atomic. I used Gainon G2.Polish.Wedge-s for a pure tightness combo, and although it was very tight, it would still consistently burst against v2.h.x’. Wedge-s and eternal-s are tied to have the tightest springs for hasbro, just barley beating bearing, however Gaianon still bursts very easily. So Atomic on Gaianon would fair well,  in god format yes it would be quite broken as many beys have tight slopes, however because classic is focused on dual and basic layers, there is no point in banning hasbro atomic.

What G2 do you have? all of mine are really tight.