Please, for everyone's sake, can we just get rid of this ridiculous notion that Burst Classic must exclude all parts released after the Dual Layer era? I don't know why everyone is so violently opposed to allowing Turbo, or Dash Drivers, or God Layers, you do realize that if we had only the Single and Dual Layer parts, the Burst Classic meta would be the same as it was the first time around? With the metal removed from the Layers and the burst resistance nerfed due to the weak slopes, Hasbro's Turbo Layers (except Kerbeus K4, which is a weird outlier) are on a power tier much closer to the Single/Dual Layers than anything else, and I've actually had KJ do some tests that corroborate these results, so it stands to reason that they should be legal. Right now, the only reason that they're not is due to the fact that they're still currently in production and each new one would need to be evaluated on release (which would lead to a lot of rule updates). As for the new Hasbro Exclusive stuff like Dullahan and Ogre, those are parts we really don't have much information on, so we should get some testing on them before making a final decision, but given that their circumstances are very similar to both Turbo and the Hasbro exclusive Dual Layers I doubt they'll be a serious threat to the health of the Classic meta.

Yes. This is Burst Classic format, not Turbo format. Turbo layers is very strongs and Single and Dual layers defeat most Turbo layers.

some of us want this where they are allowed but others say no because it gets rid of the whole classic name in The Format that's for me to begin with I did not like the name classic I just wanted a Limited Format whare we could just use single and dual layers and maybe some God layers

Turbo Format does not exist, but there is nothing stating that Burst Classic and Turbo need to be mutually exclusive. Burst Classic is only a name, functionally it is a Limited Format that's just balanced around the Single and Dual Layers. If some other part, regardless of what brand or series its from, can exist in the format without overcentralizing the meta, then there is no reason that it should be banned. It's really, really disappointing that this is something that needs to be repeated.

People are opposed to parts from later Burst series being included in a format entitled "Burst Classic" because it's built on a false premise. The logic behind this format's title seems to come from its banning of most non-Basic and Dual Layers and all new Discs following the end of the Dual Layer System.

However, the same logic fails to be applied for Drivers; instead, a logic more akin to that of MFB Limited part bans is used. The resulting confusion sprung from this contradiction is evidenced by the recurring calls for the banning or unbanning of various Turbo parts on less than consistently stable grounds.

If the function of this format is that of a Limited class, then it ought to be called just that: Burst Limited. Changing the name of the format to reflect what it is in function should immediately end all debate over what parts ought be legal or illegal based on their release dates or whatever "Classic" is supposed to mean...

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

Just call it Burst Early Layer Limited to make them stop complaining. That way you can have a Burst God Layer Limited later on, or call it Burst Middle Layer Limited.

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My dudes, just dont think about it too hard. Burst Classic is a fine name, y'all are wilding, haha. If the name was changed to Burst Limited it would conflict with the potential Limited Format for God/Switchstrike stuff, so they would need to be specified. I don't know about you, but "Burst Limited 1" and "Burst Limited 2" aren't the most marketable names. The name Burst Classic gets the main point across, and any issues y'all have with drivers or whatever is blatent ignorance of their authorial intent. :shrug:

My dudes, just dont think about it too hard. Burst Classic is a fine name, y'all are wilding, haha. If the name was changed to Burst Limited it would conflict with the potential Limited Format for God/Switchstrike stuff, so they would need to be specified. I don't know about you, but "Burst Limited 1" and "Burst Limited 2" aren't the most marketable names. The name Burst Classic gets the main point across, and any issues y'all have with drivers or whatever is blatent ignorance of their authorial intent. :shrug:

If Classic is so fine a name, why does Wombat, one of these authors, have to keep reiterating that Classic is a Limited Format? Your claim that Classic "gets the point across" is completely false. There are repeated instances of confusion stemming from the lack of clarity behind what Classic means and its inconsistency with the format's intent

What's deemed classic within this discussion has been completely subjective throughout, which has resulted in the confusion and annoyance of many. If there were truly plans to make another Limited-like format for God Layers and the like in the future, then their names should obviously be based, not on arbitrary numbers as you have strawmanned, on their distinctions from each other, e.g. Extra-Limited for having more parts banned, Limited for having fewer, etc.

If you guys are planning to create more Limited-esque formats in the future, I implore that you remain consistent with your naming schemes. It's not rocket science to create clear, effective titles, but you always have to think about it from an outsider's perspective as well. Just call this what it's always been trying to be: Burst Limited Format.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

I'm with @[TrainiacJ] on this one. With any restricted format, players will need to read up on which parts are banned and which aren't in order to play, so there shouldn't be any confusion regarding the name from tournament attendees. If/when we do introduce a format for newer layers, having two restricted formats called "Limited" and "Extra Limited" is genuinely more confusing than "Classic" which alludes to earlier layer releases and "Limited" which doesn't. Not to say that your points are invalid @[Angry Face], but I don't think anyone else has voiced complaints regarding the naming scheme itself up until now.

Regarding the inclusion of newer release drivers and disks, we realized fairly early on that the only way for the format to succeed was if it were as inclusive to newer players as possible for a restricted format and allowed for the greatest diversity of matchups and competitive combos. I don't think the idea of restricting drivers to first series releases will be entertained because it would make for a much more simplistic and restrictive meta as a whole.

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Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

Yeah, but weight isn't always the reason why a bey could be seen as bannable.

I didn’t mean not banning parts, I just meant that instead of banning parts because they are too heavy. Obviously there would still be parts banned for other reasons, but I think this is how it should be weight-wise.

Yeah, but seemingly bad parts like Octa would be banned and with a light enough disk, some god layers would be usable.

Regarding the inclusion of newer release drivers and disks, we realized fairly early on that the only way for the format to succeed was if it were as inclusive to newer players as possible for a restricted format and allowed for the greatest diversity of matchups and competitive combos. I don't think the idea of restricting drivers to first series releases will be entertained because it would make for a much more simplistic and restrictive meta as a whole.

YES THIS. Adding the newer drivers to Burst Classic really helps older single and dual layers shine. Layers that you wouldn't normally see being used if we were only restricted to drivers before the God system. Otherwise, it'd just be the same meta before God system was released.

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Now I understand why have burst classic, its a format that will let older parts shine. However the exclusion of newer parts like eternal will reduce the amounts of orbits used. Sure it will add new combos to tournaments, but after everything has bee settled it will just be another format where Odin will rule, again.

The only problem with the name classic is the fact that post dual layer tips are allowed, this doesn’t make this format classic at all, it just is a burst limited with the ideology of restricting all layers that are new. Sure cho z has metal, so we can throw it out, but how about turbo, it definitely has metal. That’s not a joke, notice the screws, yep they are metal.

Jokes aside, turbo beys (atleast hasbro exclusive ones) should not be banned. Most don’t have metal. (Xcalius X4 does, so i have to say it) most dont have any gimmicks. Most of them have very weak slopes. And the ones that have the gimmicks, require metal for them to be functional, and since they dont have metal their gimmmicks dont have the same effect.

Now I know there will be that one who says to do the tests, but hasbro is being hasbro so we here in canada dont get releases quick, however once i do get them I want to focus on turbo and burst classic. Also if no newer layer will be allowed at all, then where’s the diversity, will anyone be using tt rising ragnaruk now? Will you guys choose to use hasbro Odax O1?? Probably not. Here’s a speculation, Odin.Gravity.Eternal, oof watch that be a beast

Now I understand why have burst classic, its a format that will let older parts shine. However the exclusion of newer parts like eternal will reduce the amounts of orbits used. Sure it will add new combos to tournaments, but after everything has bee settled it will just be another format where Odin will rule, again.

The only problem with the name classic is the fact that post dual layer tips are allowed, this doesn’t make this format classic at all, it just is a burst limited with the ideology of restricting all layers that are new. Sure cho z has metal, so we can throw it out, but how about turbo, it definitely has metal. That’s not a joke, notice the screws, yep they are metal.

Jokes aside, turbo beys (atleast hasbro exclusive ones) should not be banned. Most don’t have metal. (Xcalius X4 does, so i have to say it) most dont have any gimmicks. Most of them have very weak slopes. And the ones that have the gimmicks, require metal for them to be functional, and since they dont have metal their gimmmicks dont have the same effect.

Now I know there will be that one who says to do the tests, but hasbro is being hasbro so we here in canada dont get releases quick, however once i do get them I want to focus on turbo and burst classic. Also if no newer layer will be allowed at all, then where’s the diversity, will anyone be using tt rising ragnaruk now? Will you guys choose to use hasbro Odax O1?? Probably not. Here’s a speculation, Odin.Gravity.Eternal, oof watch that be a beast

Yeah, but there are really only 3 turbo beys bad enough to add to burst classic. If a bey not having metal on it means that it's dual layer level, then god wouldn't have been an improvement over the previous generations.

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Now I understand why have burst classic, its a format that will let older parts shine. However the exclusion of newer parts like eternal will reduce the amounts of orbits used. Sure it will add new combos to tournaments, but after everything has bee settled it will just be another format where Odin will rule, again.

The only problem with the name classic is the fact that post dual layer tips are allowed, this doesn’t make this format classic at all, it just is a burst limited with the ideology of restricting all layers that are new. Sure cho z has metal, so we can throw it out, but how about turbo, it definitely has metal. That’s not a joke, notice the screws, yep they are metal.

Jokes aside, turbo beys (atleast hasbro exclusive ones) should not be banned. Most don’t have metal. (Xcalius X4 does, so i have to say it) most dont have any gimmicks. Most of them have very weak slopes. And the ones that have the gimmicks, require metal for them to be functional, and since they dont have metal their gimmmicks dont have the same effect.

Now I know there will be that one who says to do the tests, but hasbro is being hasbro so we here in canada dont get releases quick, however once i do get them I want to focus on turbo and burst classic. Also if no newer layer will be allowed at all, then where’s the diversity, will anyone be using tt rising ragnaruk now? Will you guys choose to use hasbro Odax O1?? Probably not. Here’s a speculation, Odin.Gravity.Eternal, oof watch that be a beast

Also, Et is worse than R for same spin, so I doubt most people will use it over R or O. And just because little to no new layers will be added to burst classic, that doesn't mean there will be a lack of diversity.

Some very interesting discussion going on here. I feel like the Explanation in the opening post explains most of the qualms about "Classic" though; we're not aiming at Drivers really (though that was on the cards at one point), but the Layers and Disks. If anything, leaving the Drivers open enables the old 2016/17 meta to be built upon, rather than directly repeated. We're definitely trying to recreate the experience, but we're also looking to keep it constantly evolving and not stagnant. As much as I hated to admit it during development, a format with all three parts restricted wouldn't progress; it would stagnate. Drivers offer the opportunity to evolve the format, without taking away the core values of the format; to give Single & Dual Layers (and the Disks from their era) a place to thrive when they couldn't otherwise.

By logic, any format that isn't Standard is technically a "Limited" format. This one is just oriented more towards classic Layers, so the "Classic" moniker is suitable. And as I've already confirmed in this thread prior; we are working on an actual Burst Limited format (currently aimed to be oriented at God Layers and Turbo Layers), but we're just not ready to launch that yet. Classic was just easier to prepare, had decent interest, and was the format we started working on first, which is why we could launch it early.

That said; while the aim is to create a format for these to thrive, we're also conscious of maintaining the core values of what makes this "Classic". This is why I'm also personally against the inclusion of God Layers and would like to see less of them (sayonara Shelter Regulus!), rather than more of them. And same for Turbo Layers; sure, some may not be great, but bringing what is effectively a fourth gen Burst Beyblade into a first-and-second gen focused Burst format just seems to defeat the core values of "Classic". Even if it's a "limited format" more than a nostalgia fest, I feel like the format deserves that kind of respect as well. If anything, these are more suitable for an actual Burst Limited format which, as has been said, is in the works anyway. Personally, God and Turbo Layers just don't fit into the vision I had for the format when I first brought it up; it feels like disrespecting the roots that we're trying to focus on.

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Imo if the limited format would onbe focused godlayers and maybe some weak cho z layers then i dont see turbo beys being used in that format at all due to the large weight differences. For example i dont think anyone would use F4 over tt aC for a combo like 7G At. Basically what i wanna say is that only those turbo layers should be banned which are too op against the single and dual layer stuff. Other than those layers no turbo layers should be banned

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Fav cho-Z combos
[\spoiler]
cR with A level chip 7 Revolve
rP with A level chip 10 Cross Atomic
zA with A level chip 0 Bump Destroy
hS with A level chip 7 Glaive Bearing
vL with A level chip 0 Reach Jolt
bL with A level chip 0 Glaive Variable(worn)

By logic, any format that isn't Standard is technically a "Limited" format. This one is just oriented more towards classic Layers, so the "Classic" moniker is suitable. And as I've already confirmed in this thread prior; we are working on an actual Burst Limited format (currently aimed to be oriented at God Layers and Turbo Layers), but we're just not ready to launch that yet. Classic was just easier to prepare, had decent interest, and was the format we started working on first, which is why we could launch it early.

That said; while the aim is to create a format for these to thrive, we're also conscious of maintaining the core values of what makes this "Classic". This is why I'm also personally against the inclusion of God Layers and would like to see less of them (sayonara Shelter Regulus!), rather than more of them. And same for Turbo Layers; sure, some may not be great, but bringing what is effectively a fourth gen Burst Beyblade into a first-and-second gen focused Burst format just seems to defeat the core values of "Classic". Even if it's a "limited format" more than a nostalgia fest, I feel like the format deserves that kind of respect as well. If anything, these are more suitable for an actual Burst Limited format which, as has been said, is in the works anyway. Personally, God and Turbo Layers just don't fit into the vision I had for the format when I first brought it up; it feels like disrespecting the roots that we're trying to focus on.

My dudes, just dont think about it too hard. Burst Classic is a fine name, y'all are wilding, haha. If the name was changed to Burst Limited it would conflict with the potential Limited Format for God/Switchstrike stuff, so they would need to be specified. I don't know about you, but "Burst Limited 1" and "Burst Limited 2" aren't the most marketable names. The name Burst Classic gets the main point across, and any issues y'all have with drivers or whatever is blatent ignorance of their authorial intent. :shrug:

I think the confusion and angst in this thread further reiterates my long standing idea that we cannot formulate a limited or restricted style format in Burst quite yet. We must wait until we see how the standard burst gameplay shakes out and what parts will eventually be released before we can say what is "Classic" or "Limited."

The only reason why MFB Limited had such a strong cult following was because it was created after the game was fully realized as a way to equalize the types and give us different ways to play the game that the Standard MFB did not offer. It was not created in this "Classic Format" spirit, which is basically the "we want to use parts that are outclassed" format or the "we want to make a format for these unused parts to thrive" format. If the format mirrors Standard Burst too much, then what would the point of this format be? This simply does not make sense as the basis of a new format at this time and doesn't really truly offer anything new in terms of gameplay.

I will continue with my stance that it is still too early for any "Limited" or "Classic" formats to be created. We will most likely end up with mirror formats and more than one "Limited" style format if we jump the gun.

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I feel like the confusion or angst would exist anyway. It's a new format, still in development. Comparing it to MFB Limited doesn't work, as that's an established format at the end of the system's lifespan, designed by Advanced members. I don't know the specifics on the development of that, but I can almost guarantee that there were growing pains when first starting out with that one as well.

I don't really get why creating a format in a "we want to use parts that are outclassed" format or the "we want to make a format for these unused parts to thrive" spirit is wrong either? Because it doesn't follow in the footsteps of Limited? I don't think the justification for the format is invalid at all; it was carefully considered, and the timing of deployment also took some thought to ensure it provided a different experience to the existing Burst format anyway (current Cho-Z oriented meta compared to what ended up proving a more attack-focused Classic meta).

If anything, perhaps it should be more clearly specified what the goals for Classic are, because it's a mess even between the few of us that initially drafted the format; some of us in the thread are saying one thing, while others are saying others, and a lot is being said without it being specified as a personal opinion as well. As far as I'm concerned, what I stated in my post prior is the impression I've been proceeding under, the impression I had when I first mentioned us doing Burst Classic in mid-2018, and the impression I've based the majority of my suggestions or adjustments on.

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Wait Deathscyther(single layer) isn’t going to be banned?

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Also, I think Dash drivers should be allowed, at least for certain layers like Valkyrie. The teeth wear is still an issue for single layers, so maybe Dash drivers can be allowed for them?

Wait Deathscyther(single layer) isn’t going to be banned?

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Also, I think Dash drivers should be allowed, at least for certain layers like Valkyrie. The teeth wear is still an issue for single layers, so maybe Dash drivers can be allowed for them?

The ones with fresh teeth aren’t common finds anymore($28+), plus with Guardians kerbeus you have a better alternative

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Wait Deathscyther(single layer) isn’t going to be banned?

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Also, I think Dash drivers should be allowed, at least for certain layers like Valkyrie. The teeth wear is still an issue for single layers, so maybe Dash drivers can be allowed for them?

The ones with fresh teeth aren’t common finds anymore($28+), plus with Guardians kerbeus you have a better alternative

Sorry I’m confused. Are you agreeing with me here? I think at least dash drivers should be allowed with Valkyrie, being a top tier attack layer.

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The ones with fresh teeth aren’t common finds anymore($28+), plus with Guardians kerbeus you have a better alternative

Sorry I’m confused. Are you agreeing with me here? I think at least dash drivers should be allowed with Valkyrie, being a top tier attack layer.

My apologies that was a response for Deathscyther, but I agree with the dash drivers

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Sorry I’m confused. Are you agreeing with me here? I think at least dash drivers should be allowed with Valkyrie, being a top tier attack layer.

My apologies that was a response for Deathscyther, but I agree with the dash drivers

I feel like we have all the dash drivers we would need. X' and Hn' are the only non OP ones imo

My apologies that was a response for Deathscyther, but I agree with the dash drivers

I feel like we have all the dash drivers we would need. X' and Hn' are the only non OP ones imo

Well none of the original versions of the dash drivers were very good. Fusion? Merge? Blow? I think X’ and Hn’ are the OP ones, or at least the only ones worth having, besides maybe A’.

I feel like we have all the dash drivers we would need. X' and Hn' are the only non OP ones imo

Well none of the original versions of the dash drivers were very good. Fusion? Merge? Blow? I think X’ and Hn’ are the OP ones, or at least the only ones worth having, besides maybe A’.

Those still have decent stamina for the most part though.

Well none of the original versions of the dash drivers were very good. Fusion? Merge? Blow? I think X’ and Hn’ are the OP ones, or at least the only ones worth having, besides maybe A’.

Those still have decent stamina for the most part though.

There’s just better options than those is all. They aren’t used in combos much.

Those still have decent stamina for the most part though.

There’s just better options than those is all. They aren’t used in combos much.

But still, imo the burst resistance makes up for it.

There’s just better options than those is all. They aren’t used in combos much.

But still, imo the burst resistance makes up for it.

It definitely makes stamina types more resistant. But I think stamina types should stay long spint time, low burst resistance.

I think fusion dash should unbanned, ifyou launch it hard enough it goes around the stadium and loses all of its stamina and if you launch it light enough where it doesn’t you won’t have enough stamina to use this on defense or stamina combos

I think fusion dash should unbanned, ifyou launch it hard enough it goes around the stadium and loses all of its stamina and if you launch it light enough where it doesn’t you won’t have enough stamina to use this on defense or stamina combos

If you have Fusion’ driver, test this and post result to testing thread. Then Organized Play Team decide, if this unbanned or not.

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Gone... Now... And... Forever...