It was not, because it was said time and again that other Stamina combinations do not win against Odin Heavy Defense.

Didn't we determine that it's based on launch strength? Also pretty sure people have been saying it's more 50-50 than anything so I don't know where your getting that from. I think you guys are having way different results than we are.

I really don't know where you guys are getting the thought that Stamina loses to Odin when at the last NC event literally every match that was Odin vs Deathscyther Odin lost.

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Not my WBO

Attack combos are not based on skill in my opinion, because there's always a lot of luck.

Yes, that's correct! 100% correct. The types that require a damn video explaining how to effectively use them actually require LUCK! Genius!

Well, well, isn't that rude for no reason?

Yes, Beyblade always has a factor of ''luck''/chance surrounding it. The sliding shoot doesn't always win.

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[font="Proxima Nova Regular", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/font]

It was not, because it was said time and again that other Stamina combinations do not win against Odin Heavy Defense.

Didn't we determine that it's based on launch strength? Also pretty sure people have been saying it's more 50-50 than anything so I don't know where your getting that from. I think you guys are having way different results than we are.

50/50 odds isn't winning. Even 60/40 is a risky pick in a tournament setting.
If the strongest Defense type gets 50/50 odds with the strongest Stamina type, we have a serious problem.

---

Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

Well what are your counter Stamina combinations then ? Launch strength has a limit, and at equal launching power (the upper limit), 'we' experienced that most if not all Stamina customizations did not win against it.

I really don't know where you guys are getting the thought that Stamina loses to Odin when at the last NC event literally every match that was Odin vs Deathscyther Odin lost.

To me it feels like the person who uses the combo plays a huge factor, because a lot of people are claiming different results.

It was not, because it was said time and again that other Stamina combinations do not win against Odin Heavy Defense.

Didn't we determine that it's based on launch strength? Also pretty sure people have been saying it's more 50-50 than anything so I don't know where your getting that from. I think you guys are having way different results than we are.

50/50 odds isn't winning. Even 60/40 is a risky pick in a tournament setting.
If the strongest Defense type gets 50/50 odds with the strongest Stamina type, we have a serious problem.

I never said it was winning.

Also who said Odin was a strong defense? Attack literally eats it.

Well what are your counter Stamina combinations then ? Launch strength has a limit, and at equal launching power (the upper limit), 'we' experienced that most if not all Stamina customizations did not win against it.

Deathscyther Heavy Defense/Survive. At equal launch strength we've experience Deathscyther outspin Odin almost every game. Even one of our younger members Ethanq42, was either able to defeat Odin or get ridiculously close against a well known NC blader with Deathscyther (sorry it's been a while).

Also who said Odin was a strong defense? Attack literally eats it.

In my experience, you can weak launch which means it doesn't get KOed and recently I've seen a "golden launch" that is launched perfectly between hard and weak so you don't get Bursted from launching hard, but don't get outspun by Attack types that are launched hard. Using this launch, I saw OHD on video get 80% against VHX. Also, Needle has seen more success compared to Defense against Attack types in testing.

Deathscyther Heavy Defense/Survive. At equal launch strength we've experience Deathscyther outspin Odin almost every game.

Except that DHD or DHS is very vulnerable to Attack, which as I explained above, Odin is not. The point is that OHD/N is very very competitive and in my opinion, overpowered in two categories, which is not okay whatsoever.

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(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

Also who said Odin was a strong defense? Attack literally eats it.

In my experience, you can weak launch which means it doesn't get KOed and recently I've seen a "golden launch" that is launched perfectly between hard and weak so you don't get Bursted from launching hard, but don't get outspun by Attack types that are launched hard. Using this launch, I saw OHD on video get 80% against VHX. Also, Needle has seen more success compared to Defense against Attack types in testing.

Deathscyther Heavy Defense/Survive. At equal launch strength we've experience Deathscyther outspin Odin almost every game.

Except that DHD or DHS is very vulnerable to Attack, which as I explained above, Odin is not. The point is that OHD/N is very very competitive and in my opinion, overpowered in two categories, which is not okay whatsoever.

Where did you see this mighty golden launch at may I ask?

Cool, now I'll definitely outspin you with Deathscyther Heavy Defense when you put Needle on.

Did I ever say it wasn't vulnerable to attack? No I don't think so. I said it will outspin Odin Heavy Defense, nothing more nothing less.

I saw it in a Hangouts call and from talking with other members.

You're missing my point. My point is that OHD is effective against multiple types, unlike DHD. DHD isn't overpowered, it can only outspin things, but it also gets KOed viciously. OHD does not get KOed at all, and it outspins other Stamina types.

---

(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

I saw it in a Hangouts call and from talking with other members.

You're missing my point. My point is that OHD is effective against multiple types, unlike DHD. DHD isn't overpowered, it can only outspin things, but it also gets KOed viciously. OHD does not get KOed at all, and it outspins other Stamina types.

Okay man, can he perfectly recreate that in tournaments, just like it's so hard apparently to create a perfect sliding shoot and win with attack?

Oh Odin doesn't get KOed at all? Damn, that's completely different from what I've seen.

@[*Ginga*]

Kid have you read NONE of the test in this thread with Odin getting destroyed by attack.

---

Not my WBO

OK the tone has to shift otherwise I am going to lock this thread for some time to let every one of us chill out.

I don't think there are any new arguments about to suddenly pop up so why not lock it up now?

Kid have you read NONE of the test in this thread with Odin getting destroyed by attack.

I wouldn't say attack combos are really ''destroying Odin''. They're not always going to be consistent against Odin Heavy Defense, as a few of us has experienced.

As far as I know, many people in this thread actually don't have any experience with Odin Heavy Defense and Burst as a whole. Results, especially with attack in Burst, can definitely vary. I really mean it when I say I feel only those who have tested Odin and such combos tested should have a say on the ban.

And yes, we definitely need to calm down the tone. Please guys, respect each others' opinions.

Kid have you read NONE of the test in this thread with Odin getting destroyed by attack.

I wouldn't say attack combos are really ''destroying Odin''. They're not always going to be consistent against Odin Heavy Defense, as a few of us has experienced.

As far as I know, many people in this thread actually don't have any experience with Odin Heavy Defense and Burst as a whole. Results, especially with attack in Burst, can definitely vary. I really mean it when I say I feel only those who have tested Odin and such combos tested should have a say on the ban.

And yes, we definitely need to calm down the tone. Please guys, respect each others' opinions.

Okay, Odin will not always be able to defend against attack either so it goes two ways.

Are you directing that towards Collin and I?

That's honestly what happens when a discussion heats up, especially when it's something as big as a ban.

I'd say it's definitely not only you two.

Are you directing that towards Collin and I?

From my count, 45% of the people who have replied in this thread have not been to a Burst tournament since OHD's debut. You are not a part of this statistic.

---

(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

Odin Heavy Defense vs Xcalibur Heavy Xtreme

OHD: Wins 16/20 (12 BFs, 4 SFs)
XHX: Wins 4/20 (2 BFs, 2 OFs)
4 Draws (All DBF)

OHD 80% Win Rate

Odin Heavy Defense vs Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme

OHD: Wins 16/20 (15 BFs, 1 SF)
VHX: Wins 4/20 (2 BFs, 2 OFs)
3 Draws (All DBF)

OHD 80% Win Rate

Odin Heavy Defense vs Amaterios Heavy Xtreme
(lost my Amaterios so I only did a few rounds)

OHD: Wins 5/6 (4 BFs 1 SF)
AHX: Wins 1/6 (1 OF)
3 Draws (All DBF)

Odin Ring Defense vs Xcalibur Heavy Xtreme

OHD: Wins 7/20 (5 BFs, 2 SF)
VHX: Wins 13/20 (4 BFs, 9 OFs)
2 Draws (All DBF)

ORD 35% Win Rate

Odin Ring Defense vs Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme

ORD: Wins 8/20 (6 BFs, 1 OF, 1 SF)
VHX: Wins 12/20 (6 BFs, 6 OFs)
10 Draws (9 DBFs, 1 DOV)

ORD 40% Win Rate

I realized a flaw in my old tests, I was launching Odin too weakly, which made it seem bad, i did a moderate launch when using Odin and it showed much better results than like a super weak launch.

Also here are round by round results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...edit#gid=0

I'd say it's definitely not only you two.

Are you saying that we have no experience with Odin Heavy Defense? Because thats simply not true, I myself have tested Odin Heavy Defense vs Attack and have scene Odin lose.

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Not my WBO

I think you guys are all really cool and smart and posting really interesting stuff. Seriously. I think both sides of the argument are bringing interesting points, and hopefully I can write more here soon.

But I also think you're all cool and smart enough to talk about it without trash-talking each other.

I had actually forgot you guys played in a Burst tournament recently. I'm not sure how competitive it actually was but I definitely apologize for that.

In this thread, there are definitely some people I'm almost certain are speaking on Odin's behalf based off of others' tests and not own or tournament experience. I believe people should be doing either of the two themselves instead of making posts based off of other people's results.

I normally avoid topics I don't have firsthand experience with, but I felt like part of the problem here was just a miscommunication of information, so I tried to help. At this point, though, I'm way out of my depth, so I decided to stop posting.

I was going to stop with my last post, but I figure I might as well state it outright.

---

Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

I had actually forgot you guys played in a Burst tournament recently. I'm not sure how competitive it actually was but I definitely apologize for that.

In this thread, there are definitely some people I'm almost certain are speaking on Odin's behalf based off of others' tests and not own or tournament experience. I believe people should be doing either of the two themselves instead of making posts based off of other people's results.

Can I question the competitiveness of the tournament Kai-V won, the tournament that started this whole thread?

Kid have you read NONE of the test in this thread with Odin getting destroyed by attack.

I wouldn't say attack combos are really ''destroying Odin''. They're not always going to be consistent against Odin Heavy Defense, as a few of us has experienced.

As far as I know, many people in this thread actually don't have any experience with Odin Heavy Defense and Burst as a whole. Results, especially with attack in Burst, can definitely vary. I really mean it when I say I feel only those who have tested Odin and such combos tested should have a say on the ban.

And yes, we definitely need to calm down the tone. Please guys, respect each others' opinions.

Yeah well my posts are being based off results that have been provided and tournament results. I am mostly just sharing my points on how I believe would be the best way to go.

Are you directing that towards Collin and I?

From my count, 45% of the people who have replied in this thread have not been to a Burst tournament since OHD's debut. You are not a part of this statistic.

Probably me, but you can't really blame anyone. We all try 120% to host Burst tourneys. I'm doing the best I can without attending one. I can't just sit down quiet while a huge game changing ban discussion is happening.

I think you guys are all really cool and smart and posting really interesting stuff. Seriously. I think both sides of the argument are bringing interesting points, and hopefully I can write more here soon.

But I also think you're all cool and smart enough to talk about it without trash-talking each other.

For sure. We need to be much more civilized. Just as how we'd talk with each other in real life.