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BBG-3/4 Zero-G Stadium Attack Type Discussion

Apr. 15, 2012  4:15 PM
 
I really do expect them to do that, not only because of the uneven surface thing, but also to prevent wear of the stadiums underside.
I guess for the in play/out of play rules, we should wait to see what the WBBA does, it's really just guesswork at the moment, it seems.
Apr. 15, 2012  4:38 PM
 
(Apr. 15, 2012  4:15 PM)th!nk Wrote: I really do expect them to do that, not only because of the uneven surface thing, but also to prevent wear of the stadiums underside.
I guess for the in play/out of play rules, we should wait to see what the WBBA does, it's really just guesswork at the moment, it seems.

There has been no additions to TAKARA-TOMY's rulebooks that were special to Zero-G when the first few products came out last month ... They just added the Zero-G Stadium Attack Type as being legal.
Apr. 15, 2012  4:40 PM
 
Yeah, it may take some WBBA Zero-G events before we find out more detail about that specific ruling, it's a real shame they didn't do anything more with the rulebook. Makes me wonder whether the swaying stadiums are really just a short-term gimmick or something...
Apr. 15, 2012  9:13 PM
 
(Apr. 15, 2012  4:02 PM)th!nk Wrote: Urgh, the swaying gimmick is cool and all, but needing a completely even/flat surface as well as the whole synchrom money grab is kinda annoying.

Thanks very much for those tests, though I'm confused why you went with kerbecs on Duo 230MB, it doesn't have great synergy there.

It's a pain for sure - but cardboard seems to do the trick. Hazel suggested it first, and my initial reaction was that we would all end up walking around with pieces of refrigerator boxes just the first breakdancers did in the 70s and 80s (they looked very silly). Similar to a previous conversation that we had around level, stable stadiums, I might end up getting some thin sheets of particle board for tournaments. At that point I may as well bring a level as well to make sure alles gute in that department too.

As to Kerbecs... I'm generally not much of a subscriber to the current clear wheel cannon, and in this case I was interested in trying to maximize the weight of the bey.

(Apr. 15, 2012  4:40 PM)th!nk Wrote: Yeah, it may take some WBBA Zero-G events before we find out more detail about that specific ruling, it's a real shame they didn't do anything more with the rulebook. Makes me wonder whether the swaying stadiums are really just a short-term gimmick or something...

With the Defense Stadium also being a bowl, and the anime featuring the Attack Stadium prominently in Episode 1, my money would be on seeing the sway remain over the long term.

EDIT: BTW, I don't know if it is very well known yet or not, but the bottom of the stadium in the center is actually flat - not curved.
Apr. 15, 2012  9:36 PM
 
We found a good combo at a meet up just now:

Flash Sagittatio GB145FB

It did well against ShadowLDragos LDG.
Apr. 15, 2012  9:56 PM
 
That's a kinda interesting combo. Is it attack, defense or stamina? I don't know where the B tips fall into with the S tips being defense and D tips being stamina and all that. But I'm also asking because in my knowledge, Flash is attack, GB145 is defense and FB is... well, I don't know. Attack-Defense hybrid by the 'Ball' and 'Flat'.
Apr. 16, 2012  1:19 AM
 
Just to give some incite on my findings:

MF-H Flash Sag. II GB145FB vs Earth Eagle 145WD

Flash 4 (2 OS, 2 KO)
Earth Eagle 1 (OS, barely)

@ mayaman2

Earlier today I saw Ozerec's Flash Sag. II GB145RF, took it a step further by adding LRF, but then at the meetup we were playing with 0G stadiums, and I knew that you needed speed and a ball tip in a 0G attack type, so I took flat ball. GB145... no comment.
Apr. 17, 2012  12:19 PM
 
You met up with Ozerec?I thuaght you live a long way from him....
I was wondering how fb would perform as well.I want to see what mf does in this stadium as well as fb....
Apr. 17, 2012  1:26 PM
 
(Apr. 17, 2012  12:19 PM)KaotiK Wrote: You met up with Ozerec?I thuaght you live a long way from him....
I was wondering how fb would perform as well.I want to see what mf does in this stadium as well as fb....

I didn't, I mean that I saw his combo on the Flash Discussion.
Apr. 19, 2012  9:54 PM
 
Alright, so I did some testing today after getting my stuff in, and did this:

Zero-G Attack-type Stadium Testing:

MSF Ifraid Saramanda R145R2F vs MF-H Death Aquario BD145CS
MSF Ifraid Saramanda R145R2F: 13(7 OS, 6 KO)
MF-H Death Aquario BD145CS: 7(3 KO, 4 OS)

Now, keep in mind, I came to this very fresh-eyed, having kept myself in the dark about the performance nuances of this Stadium and such.

First off, the wins were mostly due to BD145 just being hilariously wacky in this thing. All it takes to make BD145 combos lose nearly all of their spin velocity is to just launch your Attacker against the wall(the closer to a pocket, the better, even!) and it will pretty much either take care of itself, or put itself in prime position to be KO'd really clean.

Now, about the KOs I saw: Most of them weren't "screw this I'm leaving", as some people were seeing - the majority of mine were actually the BD145 combo being knocked into the pocket by the attacker(I believe two of them were walk-outs). One of the three KOs the BD145 combo got was a regular counter-smash KO, and the other two were the Ifraid Saramanda walking out.

Fun stuff! I really like the overall energetic feeling you get launching against the wall and watching the whole thing go bonkers, with the added novelty of being able to have somewhat-tame matches if you avoid launching against the walls.
Apr. 19, 2012  10:02 PM
 
Hazel...why on world you use BD145 on a wobbly stadium? It will scrape like there's no tomorrow....
Apr. 19, 2012  10:05 PM
 
I figured it would, but I wanted to see anyway.

Maybe read my post, you'll probably figure out that I was more than well aware of it.

Furthermore, while I'm at it I should probably also mention that the main reason I did the tests identical to the BB-10 ones I did and posted in the other threads was to see the contrast between the two Stadia in a less-theoretical manner. Yeah, common sense said BD145 would scrape, but it didn't quite say if anything neat could come from it.
Apr. 20, 2012  6:06 PM
 
Been a while since I've done some actual testing.

I'm aware that Brood said WD was terrible in the stadium, but since SWD is essentially the same shape, I thought I should start by comparing those two first.

Zero G Attack Type Stadium Stamina Tests:
Both Beys were launched alternately.
Phantom is in Attack Mode.

Phantom Cancer AD145SWD vs. Phantom Cancer AD145WD
Phantom Cancer AD145SWD: 22 Wins (17 KO's, 5 OS)
Phantom Cancer AD145WD: 8 Wins ( 7 KO's, 1 OS)
SWD Win%: ~72.6%
3 Draws

I think I can safely say that SWD is at least superior to WD in Zero G. It seems a little easier to directly knock out compared to WD, but it doesn't move nearly as much. WD often gets very aggressive even at the smallest tilts, and this usually causes it to fly out the exits faster than the other Bey can leave. This alone gave SWD about 12 wins. SWD still moves aggressively if the stadium tilts at a large enough angle though.

And now for something (hopefully) more relevant:

Phantom Cancer AD145SWD vs. Phantom Cancer AD145SD

Phantom Cancer AD145SWD: 13 Wins (11 KO's, 2 OS)
Phantom Cancer AD145SD: 17 Wins ( 17 KO's )
SWD Win%:~43%
2 Draws

SD has a fairly aggressive movement pattern once the stadium tilts, but its movement is significantly tamer, not usually leaving the stadium like WD and D tend to do. SWD seems pretty vulnerable to being KO'd by the swaying of the stadium though; 13 of SD's KO's were a result of this.

SD's stadium KO's were actually really neat to watch. All it would usually take was one or two revolutions around the edge of the stadium, and SWD would go flying out.

EDIT: Here are some DS tests as well:

Phantom Cancer AD145DS vs. Phantom Cancer AD145SD
Phantom Cancer AD145DS: 12 Wins (12 KO's)
Phantom Cancer AD145SD: 18 Wins (18 KO's)
DS Win%: ~39.6%
5 Draws

Compared to SD, DS doesn't get aggressive quite as consistently as SD. Even when it did, it tended to fly out of the stadium more often on its own. DS seemed to have a bit of an easier time staying in compared to SWD when SD got aggressive, but usually it would then just catch the surface and fling itself out.
Like the previous test, SD amassed a fair number of stadium KO's, 14 in this test.
Apr. 21, 2012  1:35 AM
 
Thanks for the tests. I have a couple of questions for those of you with Zero-G Stadiums:

Are we even really certain yet on which tips will actually be the best stamina tips in this stadium? I mean, I know that SD was promoted as being stamina now, but remember, Sharp tips used to be considered the main stamina tips, and they were all in all pretty terrible.

That said, are stamina types still totally relevant, I mean, have we even decided exactly what the best defense tips are yet, and is "new stamina" certain to outspin them and not be thrown out of the arena?

What I'm seeing in your stamina testing is that the winner comes down to defensive ability, not stamina, so is stamina all that relevant, if against other stamina types it's all KO?
Apr. 21, 2012  1:50 AM
 
When I was tinkering around with SD in my Zero-G Attack Stadium, I was frequently getting very tame, non-swaying matches... it seems to be one of the few places where the metal wheel/chrome wheel makes a significant difference. Even with a hard wall launch with the attacker, the SD combo still had a fair occurrence of ending up sitting in the middle out-spinning(the combos were just stock Samurai Ifraid and Shinobi Saramanda in this case, since I wasn't actually testing anything, just observing).

Testing every type with Zero-G has gotten a lot more variable in general - and now, partnerless testing seems almost completely irrelevant, to be entirely honest. It's kind of a bleak outlook to have, but there is no way to realistically simulate a two person match in this stadium whatsoever without actually having one, whereas in a BB-10, it is at least not as far from reality.
Apr. 21, 2012  2:20 AM
 
I played around with some low recoil combos using SD vs Sharp Bottoms, but they still suffer from the balance issues they had in BB-10. It gets even worse if the stadium starts swaying.

I couldn't actually cause SD to move myself either regardless of how I launched it either, it just happened periodically whenever there was a big hit between the combos.

I had a feeling the issue of testing with partners would arise the more I played with the stadium. After I did the above test I asked my roommate(who respects my hobby but isn't too interested in it himself) to help me do a few rounds of other tests and I got noticeably different results compared to when I tested alone. The difference between having a Bey in the stadium before launching another and launching both at the same time is significantly greater in the Zero-G stadium compared to BB-10.

EDIT: I was using the cardboard from the BBG-03 box as the surface.


Apr. 21, 2012  2:22 AM
 
Looks like we have to learn to either grow another pair of arms, or launch with out feet...

Or find someone else to test with, but come on.

Oh, also, could people include what surface the stadium is resting on when testing? Seeing as that apparently has some influence!
Apr. 21, 2012  9:09 AM
 
just was playing round variares sw145 r2f, vs synchromed saramanda ifraid, it took less than less than 3 seconds, variares was out of spin, rf just probably wont be good in the stadium, it has to finish the match very quick or its lost. i done this one the carpet. the non grip bases work the est for attack, gonna play around with xf later.
Apr. 21, 2012  12:17 PM
 
There are two thing i hate about this stadium is not good the stadium it self is rotating it makes me crazy!!! and beys have poor stamina in this stadium
Apr. 21, 2012  12:19 PM
 
(Apr. 21, 2012  12:17 PM)-1o1-DiAbLO- Wrote: There are two thing i hate about this stadium is not good the stadium it self is rotating it makes me crazy!!! and beys have poor stamina in this stadium

That's kind of the point.
Apr. 21, 2012  2:16 PM
 
(Apr. 21, 2012  9:09 AM)username786 Wrote: just was playing round variares sw145 r2f, vs synchromed saramanda ifraid, it took less than less than 3 seconds, variares was out of spin, rf just probably wont be good in the stadium, it has to finish the match very quick or its lost. i done this one the carpet. the non grip bases work the est for attack, gonna play around with xf later.

I found R2F pretty easy to use in it, honestly, during my tests. It's not wacky or out of control, or anything, and it spins more than long enough to do what it needs to do when you need to do it.

I tested on my bedroom carpet(very short, fine), which has about the same stadium mobility as a piece of cardboard, but significantly more than my livingroom carpet, and a good deal less than my polished coffee table.
Apr. 22, 2012  11:40 AM
 
xf is quite easy to control in the stadium. and does have better attack potential than fb, also has enough stamina. used xf on variares, and synchrome saramanda ifraid. used fb as well, but xf just has better ko rates. wide tracks such as r145, sw145, and ed145 help, to control xf better, so it doesn't self ko. does anyone else find xf easy to use in the stadium. i hope to try out cs attack potential, when i get a new mint one. 145 has got to be the optimum height for attack types.
Apr. 25, 2012  9:55 PM
 
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MF-H-Fla...D-D-Zero-G
Did some testing in the Zero-G stadium here. RS is quite diffucult to SKO, I must say. RF and R2F move great in it as well, which is really surprising to me. Haven't tried out XF yet though, been busy playing with CF Eee
Apr. 28, 2012  5:25 PM
 
I'll post test results and maybe upload some video when I have more time this week, but anecdotal evidence suggests that tall spin tracks with no support (e.g. 230) perform poorly in this stadium. When a tall bey is hit and loses balance, it tends to hit the constantly moving stadium and loses stamina very, very quickly. This is why the Zero-G releases have spin tracks with wings or extensions.

In a Zero-G battle, a lot of the parts are important. it's not just about having the heaviest wheel (although light beys tend to fall prey to the dominant spin of the opposing bey, resulting in a stadium out). Low spin tracks can be ruled out almost automatically, as 85 will absolutely KO itself. Customizing for a Zero-G stadium is tricky. Will do some tests and post soon-ish.

EDIT: It's also important to note in tests what surface the stadium itself is on, as anything other than a flat floor (e.g., carpet) will limit the movement of the stadium.
Apr. 28, 2012  6:40 PM
 
Tall tracks on what tip though? 230 MB does not fall prey to the effect that you are describing, so please tell us the specific tips for which you have observed this effect.
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