BBG-3/4 Zero-G Stadium Attack Type Discussion


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th!nk
I don't know, but the results seem quite "defined", with attack beating stamina beating defense beating attack. I think that because at least attack and defense types are focused on abusing/countering the swaying, that it simply becomes a reliability factor similar to the odds of a self KO/mislaunch.

That said, it would be cool if someone did what you described, it would give us a much more definite answer than my extrapolations.
(Apr. 05, 2012  10:24 PM)th!nk Wrote: I don't know, but the results seem quite "defined", with attack beating stamina beating defense beating attack. I think that because at least attack and defense types are focused on abusing/countering the swaying, that it simply becomes a reliability factor similar to the odds of a self KO/mislaunch.

That said, it would be cool if someone did what you described, it would give us a much more definite answer than my extrapolations.

I think it is more a surface area thing. D series bottoms have a wider surface area resulting to roll them selves out. when the stadium moves, so the once great key to succes of the WD, D is no working against it. B: D can in theorie be less prone to that logic. But For stamina we can Reinitiate ES, EDS. Those have a fearlly smaller surface area an can in theorie hold their own against attack. MB can also prove to be good because the stadium could slide underneeth it and it would not be affected to mutch.
Janstarblast
Ah, EDS sounds good, but ES.... It tilts too much, which might be disadvantageous in this stadium...
Also, I agree completely with what Kai V said...

Also guys, don't you think that our conventional way of testing(one person launching both beys one after the other), wouldn't it be better if there are two people launching simultaneously?
This is because by the time the second bey is launched, the stadium has already started to wobble...
I hope you all get what I mean...
Yeah, I agree with JanStarblast. I wondered about that myself when the series was released. Two people launching should get more accurate results, and as a bonus, the individual launching skill of the bladers won't matter as much (as far as we know).
Ga'
Well, EDS can become very aggressive due to that outer edge, which might not be too good in a stadium that changes its angles constantly. I can see why one would say ES, but Jan is most likely correct.

I'd personally like to see EWD, the eternal tip combined with the shape might help.
Pcyborg
(Apr. 05, 2012  10:19 PM)Kai-V Wrote: I just want to say that, since the gimmick of the stadium is so unpredictable, I think we should start with someone doing ten or twenty tests one day, and then, on another day, the same person does the same amount of tests. Would they necessarily be the same, hah ?
Testing is always is good but with such a limited Zero G selection (which is what the stadium is for).

Instead of combos, I would prefer specifications instead like which standard height would work or with MW width would be optimal. That way we could eliminate out which actually works and which dont.

My full intentions were
Optimal weight/weight category
-Cos Zero G Attack seems to be dependent on this. I heard lighter weight beys will jump over the hole whereas heavier ones would just fall off
Optimal height
-Floor scraps
Optimal width
-MW scraps.

I've been heaving from a friend that 145 seems to be optimal and different weight beys produces different results in Zero G attack but I just wanna be sure.
JBladerMS
Perhaps we could try using extremely circular wheels for Zero-G attacks. On a short enough track (90/100/125), circular wheels might catch on to the curvature of the stadium and reach higher speeds. In this way, the entire Beyblade itself becomes an attacking bottom. The Metal wheel itself cannot smash opponents away, rather, it relies completely on Zero-G attack. They will be pure Zero-G attackers. Most Zero-G attack combos right spend about 60% of their time attempting Zero-G KOs. If they are unsuccessful, they go closer to the center to rely on smash to win (which usually fails).
Here is a list of parts for consideration:
Faces/Stone Faces
Wheels/Chrome Wheels:
Tracks:
Bottoms:
Most Wheels listed might be too light, so I'd choose the heavier end of the weight spectrum. My idea might be completely wrong in reality since I don't actually have any hands-on experience with Zero-G parts and stadiums. My theory is worth consideration at the least, though.
I actually think WF or even F/HF would do better than those bottoms, or at least just as well. What I'm thinking off your idea, is to basically make a CF shape, except the circle is the Chrome Wheel/Metal Wheel, so a smaller bottom would be best, and who knows how easy XF will be to control.
(Apr. 07, 2012  3:30 PM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: I actually think WF or even F/HF would do better than those bottoms, or at least just as well. What I'm thinking off your idea, is to basically make a CF shape, except the circle is the Chrome Wheel/Metal Wheel, so a smaller bottom would be best, and who knows how easy XF will be to control.

Yeah, I was thinking about that too. Maybe you could use F/HF/ and possibly D/SD/EDS. The blade will conserve spin in the middle of the stadium until it's balance is disrupted, then it will go on a Zero-G rampage.
Uwik
(Apr. 05, 2012  10:19 PM)Kai-V Wrote: I just want to say that, since the gimmick of the stadium is so unpredictable, I think we should start with someone doing ten or twenty tests one day, and then, on another day, the same person does the same amount of tests. Would they necessarily be the same, hah ?

Hey guys, before we proceed with further testings, I think we should listen to Kai-V first. She has the basic idea. The stadium does look unpredictable, enough to make us wonder if everything is sheer luck.

Test combo A vs combo B (20 rounds) for day 1, and repeat the process for day 2. If we get a somewhat consistent result, then the stadium can be considered 'fair play'. We then can focus and combos and what works and what doesn't. If we get different results from the same combos from day 1 and day 2, then what is the point of finding what works and what doean't. It could simply mean that it's just a 'fun' stadium, not a competitive one.
Yeah, we should see if the stadium is even competitively visible first, haha.

Do the "luck tests" first, then consider the other theories. Smile
My stuff is in Dallas FedEx, it's coming Monday morning, so in order to HELP CHANGE THE RULEBOOK QUICKER AND NOT PERSONAL TEST, hit me up on some requests Grin

th!nk?
Arupaeo
(Apr. 07, 2012  7:07 PM)Uwik Wrote:
(Apr. 05, 2012  10:19 PM)Kai-V Wrote: I just want to say that, since the gimmick of the stadium is so unpredictable, I think we should start with someone doing ten or twenty tests one day, and then, on another day, the same person does the same amount of tests. Would they necessarily be the same, hah ?

Hey guys, before we proceed with further testings, I think we should listen to Kai-V first. She has the basic idea. The stadium does look unpredictable, enough to make us wonder if everything is sheer luck.

Test combo A vs combo B (20 rounds) for day 1, and repeat the process for day 2. If we get a somewhat consistent result, then the stadium can be considered 'fair play'. We then can focus and combos and what works and what doesn't. If we get different results from the same combos from day 1 and day 2, then what is the point of finding what works and what doean't. It could simply mean that it's just a 'fun' stadium, not a competitive one.

I've been doing informal testing with othellog for 2 days now. It isn't sheer luck. There are definitely principles involved here that hold true.
th!nk
@Uwik: yes, it could be chance, but I think you are all just biased by your preconceptions of the stadium to be honest. It would be good to do so to settle the matter, but based on what I've read so far, as I said earlier, I think that because each type has adapted to the swaying stadium, the element of chance is much lower, ie the beys are directly manipulating that "factor" and as such it is not really random.
Janstarblast
Beys certainly are the manipulating factor, but think of this-
Throw a ball at any random direction.
Throw it again.
Can I expect you to throw it with the exact same power, in exactly the same direction, and see the ball land on exactly the same point as before? Its nearly impossible, yes.
And therefore, if you do manage to perform this feat, we'll either consider it to be a marvel at precision, or simply luck; the latter being more likely to be believed.
This theory applies to everything, and not just the Zero G attack stadium, is what one may say. It is completely true.
But in the Zero G stadium, the aforementioned factors are not unimportant.
I mean, these factors affect the game directly, and not indirectly(as is the case in other stadia)...
As these factors are usually beyond our control(or our control over these factors is manipulated by our opponent's bey's movement), we are likely to refer to the battles being influenced by luck or chance.

I know I might be making a horrible point altogether, but well, I am just sharing my (rather nonsensical) views about this. Smile
th!nk
No, the thing is that the swaying has become the "new contact", so combinations focus on manipulating/surviving the swaying, where they previously focussed on contact (though that is still a factor). Contact isn't the same every match, either, and I imagine generally the exit positions relative to where each bey is launched differs too.

This is all just theoretical, of course. Though, from what Arupaeo and Brood have said, it seems about right, I guess?
Guys, I wasn't advertising, if I came across as that, I'm sorry. I said that because I was telling you I can test soon... Do you guys want any tests done?
th!nk
Oh, wow, my sincerest apologies then.

I posted a list on page 2 or 3 of the tips I just want a general "report of performance" for.

It would probably be good if you did the test Kai-V described, just to settle that for good.

It's so hard to determine what's worth testing with so little knowledge of what works.
Kai-V
And with all the parts to retest in this stadium ... In this stadium that might not even be the best for competitive play after all.


WabbitStore, I have removed the Moderator Notice from your post, it was just the word "requests" that could be misinterpreted.
th!nk
It's mainly just tracks and tips that are affected.

For tracks, it's just determining what heights and gimmicks do/don't scrape and if any of the gimmicks work to benefit a beyblade in the Zero G stadiums in a major way.

For tips, yeah we need to retest almost all of them. Even Q. Uncertain

I'm actually kinda curious as to how M145ES would do in this stadium, haha.


As for this being the best or not, I'm mainly concerned by the apparent lack of a tornado ridge, though I guess with the slopes and gimmick that may work against attackers more than it helps them. Measurements and a wall:exit ratio might help determine the fairness a little, I guess, but we really have to see how everything develops.
I can say 85 scrapes, also that I tried Phantom Orion BD, hand spun the stadium with a considerable amount of force, and it took a few rotations to stadium out. And this is BD folks. Also, it seems were going to need MFH Diablo ___ XGrin (Attack) to make this rotate, because stock Ifraid is terrible trying t get Phantom Out Unhappy It can make Shinobi go flying, but not 4D.

But this is just my opinion, and I have yet to try out my prime RF for tests....
(Apr. 10, 2012  12:42 AM)WabbitStore Wrote: I can say 85 scrapes, also that I tried Phantom Orion BD, hand spun the stadium with a considerable amount of force, and it took a few rotations to stadium out. And this is BD folks. Also, it seems were going to need MFH Diablo ___ XGrin (Attack) to make this rotate, because stock Ifraid is terrible trying t get Phantom Out Unhappy It can make Shinobi go flying, but not 4D.

But this is just my opinion, and I have yet to try out my prime RF for tests....

Really? Cuz B: D was just a bait for CF combos and its wide space makes it self KO against stamina combos.
(Apr. 10, 2012  12:42 AM)WabbitStore Wrote: I can say 85 scrapes, also that I tried Phantom Orion BD, hand spun the stadium with a considerable amount of force, and it took a few rotations to stadium out. And this is BD folks. Also, it seems were going to need MFH Diablo ___ XGrin (Attack) to make this rotate, because stock Ifraid is terrible trying t get Phantom Out Unhappy It can make Shinobi go flying, but not 4D.

But this is just my opinion, and I have yet to try out my prime RF for tests....

yes that was my concern, we had a few testing and all are indicating that the bugger the surface of the bottom the more it becomes prone to stadium outs.

What I have seen from this early testing rounds is that there are 2 main things standing out in this stadium.
1. Weight
2. Surface area's of the bottoms. ( because the stadium rocks, the wider the bottom the more contact it makes with the moving floor, resulting in a rollout)
-The third is common, height
(Apr. 10, 2012  2:37 AM)Brood Wrote:
(Apr. 10, 2012  12:42 AM)WabbitStore Wrote: I can say 85 scrapes, also that I tried Phantom Orion BD, hand spun the stadium with a considerable amount of force, and it took a few rotations to stadium out. And this is BD folks. Also, it seems were going to need MFH Diablo ___ XGrin (Attack) to make this rotate, because stock Ifraid is terrible trying t get Phantom Out Unhappy It can make Shinobi go flying, but not 4D.

But this is just my opinion, and I have yet to try out my prime RF for tests....

Really? Cuz B: D was just a bait for CF combos and its wide space makes it self KO against stamina combos.

I find that D acts like RF when the stadium shifts Tongue_out

So I was testing COunter Leone 145D vs stock G Peg, and funny enough, Counter Leone does literally what it's fusion wheel is called. When the stadium shifted because of G Pegasis, the D scraped a bunch, and went CIRCLES around G Peg. CIRCLES.

Also, I tried Samurai Ifraid W145RF (PRIME rf), it didnt move carp.

Brood, PM me some combos, maybe then...
Could you quickly see how RSF does, gangstuh? I don't need tests or anything, just wondering how much it moves.
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