BBG-3/4 Zero-G Stadium Attack Type Discussion


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Pcyborg
Zero G attack is just how the opposing bey gets out. A more appropriate term to adopt for the actual result is "Stadium Out" since no contact was made.
Zero G attack should be treated as a kind of attack or action done by the bey (something like Smash, upper or Forced smash)

At least thats what the WBBA tournaments seems to have adopted for contact-less and contacted scenario (for the stadium out term).
Actually self KO usually happens alot vs other attack types.when one bey is staying around the center and the other is curculating around the stadium the one circulating will eventually go near the center swaying the stadium like crazy making the other bey dance in pain.
zero-g is a battle of seconds.from the attackers poit of veiw you want to make the stadium as crazy as possible.RDF is really good at so but the rubber part gets in the way.come to think of it CF is really nice doing that.
Pcyborg
I mean, why not just adopt something more generic like "Stadium Out" or "Ring out" since no contact is made? We all know the beys just fly out due to the violent movement of the stadium itself (which is generated by the beys).

Zero G attack is the process of making the movement and causing the beys to go out. Its sorta as official as Smash Attack and Upper Attack. Cant really call em KO since no contact was made .__.
Janstarblast
Considering the fact that Stadium Out is too generic a term that people actually even apply it on what we technically call knock outs; something slightly more unique yet understandable would be great. If you would notice, outside the WBO, stadium out has been the general term that describes the phenomena of a beyblade leaving the stadium(whether KOed or self KOed or whatever). Therefore, it'd get tough for newbies to adapt to the difference of terms. When I typed my previous reply, I was thinking about the same thing, haha!
If at all TT releases some official name for it, or if some Admin publicly declares a technical term for this, then it would get a bit more.generalised....
th!nk
I actually really like Stadium Out as a term. Perhaps Stadium Knock Out, (SKO), would help with confusion?
Janstarblast
So do I, haha!
Unfortunately though, whichever battle videos I have seen, use Stadium Out in place of KOs...
I wonder if it was actually a Hasbro creation or something. :\
But well, even I'd love to see Stadium Out being used; only if it doesn't cause much confusion...

Or assuming that these terms are commonly used mostly by testers, then probably they may do the job of explaining things? Not a good suggestion of course, haha!
Kai-V
"Stadium Out" officially refers to all stadium exits a Beyblade can do ... That is a term TAKARA-TOMY uses.

As far as I know, there is no official term for the act of being brought to the top and slipping out of the stadium there ...
Janstarblast
Ah, that is probably why I see so many people use Stadium Out as the general term.
Thanks for enlightening us Kai-V!
That got off topic. Well, anyway I would like to see how my favorite bey works in the new stadiums. It is:
Twisted Wolf GB145WD. That's really the best combo I can come up with without assistance, and let me tell you it has proven itself and beaten many beys, so I'm curious to see how it preforms in the new stadium.
th!nk
(Apr. 04, 2012  7:45 PM)mayaman2 Wrote: That got off topic. Well, anyway I would like to see how my favorite bey works in the new stadiums. It is:
Twisted Wolf GB145WD. That's really the best combo I can come up with without assistance, and let me tell you it has proven itself and beaten many beys, so I'm curious to see how it preforms in the new stadium.

That was perfectly on-topic, we're discussing what to call things based on this stadium. Not the first time you've made a judgement like that, and you've always been wildly incorrect. It's not your call, leave it.

That's a terrible combo made of generally dated parts and Brood made clear WD does not work well in these stadiums.

Furthermore, there are a huge number of more important things to test than things you've come up with. Don't be so selfish.
(Apr. 04, 2012  8:46 AM)th!nk Wrote: Variares doesn't have any defense though, it's appalling for anything but attack, and it's also not that heavy compared to newer releases so it's still not going to do anything defensively.

I mean, I can see perhaps diablo being good, but seriously guy, Variares? What are you even thinking?

Furthermore, it seems quite clear here that the new type of attack is based on making the stadium move, so CF like tips are going to be far more effective than a normal flat like F: S has.

I'd like to see Diablo's ultimate balance mode tested, as well as MF-H Diablo Kerbecs X: D in different modes, but yeah, jeez.

Well, considering it's a brand new stadium that is completely different from a BB-10, regular logic may not apply to this.
Anything goes right now man, we don't know what's good, and what's bad right now.
But even though it failed (lol) something might still work that you wouldn't expect.
Once I get my BBG-03 in I'll test some. Grin
We should definitely open up our minds to new combos, even if they are not the conventional attack/defense/endurance we are used to.

I will try my hardest to save enough money for a Zero-G stadium within another month or two. Once I get that, I'll contribute to future tests.
Wombat
Try Basalt T125RSF(soft). Basalt is pretty heavy so good for making the stadium rock and maybe for ZGA/SKO/Whatever you want to call it, and RSF is not only rubber, but semi aggressive. Someone(I forget who) said 125 was the ideal height, and the T is just an added bonus.

This is intriguing. I want this stadium even more after reading this.
(Apr. 05, 2012  12:04 AM)GM Phantom Wrote: Try Basalt T125RSF(soft). Basalt is pretty heavy so good for making the stadium rock and maybe for ZGA/SKO/Whatever you want to call it, and RSF is not only rubber, but semi aggressive. Someone(I forget who) said 125 was the ideal height, and the T is just an added bonus.

This is intriguing. I want this stadium even more after reading this.

If weight is your idea...
Basalt is outweighted by Diablo whom is now outweighted by Synchrom system combo wheel. So basalt is the third heaviest for now. Wink
(Apr. 04, 2012  8:46 AM)th!nk Wrote: Variares doesn't have any defense though, it's appalling for anything but attack, and it's also not that heavy compared to newer releases so it's still not going to do anything defensively.

I mean, I can see perhaps diablo being good, but seriously guy, Variares? What are you even thinking?

Furthermore, it seems quite clear here that the new type of attack is based on making the stadium move, so CF like tips are going to be far more effective than a normal flat like F: S has.

I'd like to see Diablo's ultimate balance mode tested, as well as MF-H Diablo Kerbecs X: D in different modes, but yeah, jeez.

lol I mentioned the diablo nemesis Ultimate balance mode X: D a few weeks ago, people laughed at me pretty hard, and even redicule me. And now it is suddenly a viable combo to test, well at least I can see what will happen to this combo now. And F: S I chose because of the crosover function from attack to defense. And no i do not think CF will be a succes if BD145 is hinted to scrape, what do you think of a circle right on the below scrapezone will do. If BD145 is a bust CF would be a nightmare. And frankly with a few videos out CF has awfull stamina and control. I rather see F: D controlled attacks rather than selfdestructieve attacks of CF. But it is all to early to say the least, for now lets be openminded. Its a new game erase the past and lets start focusing on the present and the future. Wink
th!nk
@Rai: the stadium doesn't affect wheels that drastically. Variares is never going to be good for anything but attack, the weight distribution is terrible, it's too light and the recoil too high for anything else.
"Logic" always applies, as long as you use the correct parameters.

@Stevebak: I believe that was me, who didn't ridicule you but rather pointed out that it would likely be inconsistent, which it probably will. I'm still more interested in normal mode, but because our knowledge has changed my opinion on ubm has shifted slightly (this is called learning, you should try it some time, seriously.)

As for CF, look at the tests that are already right in front of you... Apparently it does quite well. There are huge differences between CF and BD145, one's a perfect circle, the other has three large spikes that interrupt it's shape and scrape on the stadium floor. BD145 is also far larger, which further affects how it reacts on touching the floor.

Furthermore, CF doesn't really need much control, it's not aiming to hit the opponent, but to move the stadium, and it seems, from initial tests, to do decently well at that, which is what I was referring to. However, were the videos you watched done with stock Chrome/Crystal wheel setups? If so, the lack of control and stamina is almost certainly due more to the balance issues the uneven MW's cause.

"Controlled" is the last word I'd use to describe F: D, especially when it shifts to attack mode. The part has always been a poor idea, as it's the wrong way around: Rubber isn't good at the end of a battle, when you've lost the energy as well as not being controlled from the launch. SF isn't great at the start of a battle because it's too easily pushed around and wastes the higher energy. Yes, that could change in Zero-G, but we were talking about F: S, not F: D, and my issue was not even with the tip, but the wheel you chose to suggest: Variares has some of the poorest stamina/defense of any wheel in MFB history. Not just 4D. It literally has NOTHING but attack. To suggest it defend at all is simply ludicrous. Diablo would have been a much more sensible suggestion for F: S, given it's actually an attack/defense wheel, but generally a mode change late in the battle isn't going to help much for something with such poor stamina anyway, and generally auto-change parts have almost always been pretty pointless, aside from a few exceptions. Manual Change parts are generally much more useful, and X: D is a manual change F: S with a shape that *might* work better in Zero-G Stadia.

Of course, we know now that F: S just doesn't work at all well.


Now, everyone, I know you're excited and it's new, and sorry for being a downer, however, I want to get this format sorted so you can actually play with it as soon as possible, and sadly, that means I'm not comfortable with 'wasteful' requests.
"It's a new stadium" is not a valid catch-all cry for requesting tests of ridiculous combinations. A swaying stadium doesn't change the laws of physics, and doesn't generally affect the properties of most wheels all that much. Furthermore, there is still plenty of logic to be had, just because we haven't explained it all doesn't mean it's not there. We have a vague idea already of the criteria required for success in Zero-G, so apply that before you request things, justify them when you do, and if someone explains why it's a terrible idea, instead of protesting, consider the fact they might actually be right. Nothing wrong with protesting once you've considered that, but you have to have good reasons, better reasons than "its a new stadium so how can you say what will work".
(Apr. 05, 2012  4:39 AM)th!nk Wrote: @Rai: the stadium doesn't affect wheels that drastically. Variares is never going to be good for anything but attack, the weight distribution is terrible, it's too light and the recoil too high for anything else.
"Logic" always applies, as long as you use the correct parameters.

@Stevebak: I believe that was me, who didn't ridicule you but rather pointed out that it would likely be inconsistent, which it probably will. I'm still more interested in normal mode, but because our knowledge has changed my opinion on ubm has shifted slightly (this is called learning, you should try it some time, seriously.)

As for CF, look at the tests that are already right in front of you... Apparently it does quite well. There are huge differences between CF and BD145, one's a perfect circle, the other has three large spikes that interrupt it's shape and scrape on the stadium floor. BD145 is also far larger, which further affects how it reacts on touching the floor.

Furthermore, CF doesn't really need much control, it's not aiming to hit the opponent, but to move the stadium, and it seems, from initial tests, to do decently well at that, which is what I was referring to. However, were the videos you watched done with stock Chrome/Crystal wheel setups? If so, the lack of control and stamina is almost certainly due more to the balance issues the uneven MW's cause.

"Controlled" is the last word I'd use to describe F: D, especially when it shifts to attack mode. The part has always been a poor idea, as it's the wrong way around: Rubber isn't good at the end of a battle, when you've lost the energy as well as not being controlled from the launch. SF isn't great at the start of a battle because it's too easily pushed around and wastes the higher energy. Yes, that could change in Zero-G, but we were talking about F: S, not F: D, and my issue was not even with the tip, but the wheel you chose to suggest: Variares has some of the poorest stamina/defense of any wheel in MFB history. Not just 4D. It literally has NOTHING but attack. To suggest it defend at all is simply ludicrous. Diablo would have been a much more sensible suggestion for F: S, given it's actually an attack/defense wheel, but generally a mode change late in the battle isn't going to help much for something with such poor stamina anyway, and generally auto-change parts have almost always been pretty pointless, aside from a few exceptions. Manual Change parts are generally much more useful, and X: D is a manual change F: S with a shape that *might* work better in Zero-G Stadia.


Now, everyone, I know you're excited and it's new, and sorry for being a downer, however, I want to get this format sorted so you can actually play with it as soon as possible, and sadly, that means I'm not comfortable with 'wasteful' requests.
"It's a new stadium" is not a valid catch-all cry for requesting tests of ridiculous combinations. A swaying stadium doesn't change the laws of physics, and doesn't generally affect the properties of most wheels all that much. Furthermore, there is still plenty of logic to be had, just because we haven't explained it all doesn't mean it's not there. We have a vague idea already of the criteria required for success in Zero-G, so apply that before you request things, justify them when you do, and if someone explains why it's a terrible idea, instead of protesting, consider the fact they might actually be right. Nothing wrong with protesting once you've considered that, but you have to have good reasons, better reasons than "its a new stadium so how can you say what will work".

Oh my bad... the F: D was a typo fault I supposed to state F: S. But yeah we got to wait, and I like your theories to, I understand that not all combos should be tested outdated and matched than would definitlly be now. Yes physics will be remaining the point to be focusing on the future.
Yes I would'n like F: D either on the system to, it would be all over the place.

I was thinking about it, If S is defense W is stamina in other words SF and FS Become A semi Attack Hybrid. Combined with a heavy Recoil Fusion wheel and Metal stone face, it could be rock solid on this stadium.
Because it has the slim properties that make S defense in this stadium. I could have a chance to sustain the heavy rocking of the stadium and still blow stamina out. But that is just a rough sketch for now.

I'd like you to correct me if i am wrong, you always have a argument to back-up why it is good or not.
Janstarblast
Um, I am sorry to make what would qualify as an 'incomplete request', but I'd like to see DS's performance in this stadium; but that after RDF is tested. Smile
Seeing CS do so well on this, I am very much interested to see its 'all plastic' and 'reverse' counterparts perform too.
Like someone would have already suggested, I'd also like to see B: D. Maybe it might be tougher to KO in this, and it might also not get highly affected by the wobbling. I am not really sure though, as I never owned it, so if someone can correct me, it'd be great. Smile
th!nk
Brood mentioned RDF being okay but kinda limited, the rubber preventing it attacking properly with the circle part so overall not being that great, IIRC

The things I'm most interested in are:

4D: B: D (very interested), X: D (particularly with MF-H Diablo Kerbecs, in both Manual Change and UBM)
Tips: ES, DS, EDS, SWD, JB, MB (very interested in those), B, MS, LF, R2F, XF, (curious about these).

Tips seem to be the main thing here so those are what I'm really curious about.


@Janstarblast: B: D is kinda weird. It doesn't do well in a tornado stadium (moving centre), but it works well in Hasbro stadiums with grooves, so really curious to see how it does here!
Janstarblast
Oh, looks like I missed RDF's description.
And, I am interested in B: D because I expect it to gracefully overcome all the wobbling.
The only thing that worries me is the variations in B: D's performance wherein every member gets different results.
I am also particularly worried about its height for some reason. Technically, if I were a Beyblade, I'd like to have my center of gravity set a bit lower in that stadium, and not too high. B: D is tall, and even though it doesn't have balance issues, I an a bit worried..
X: D is my favourite 4D bottom, soooo....
th!nk
Well, remember, Brood did say taller tracks are important in this stadium. It's only about 170, which is probably closer to the midrange of effective track heights, from what I can gather.
Pcyborg
Thats what I heard too (about the taller tracks but from someone else.) I was informed that 145 and above seems to be optimal.

I'm fairly interested how Basalt TR145 CF would work on this stadium in general... I still feel its by far the one single MW with the most centralised weight.
Janstarblast
Ugh, I would have missed it as always!
In that case, I am now very much interested in B: D!
@Pcyborg- TR145 has been one of the least tested parts, and it really would be great to see it being tried here!
And looking at the combo you made, it might very well be a Zero G anti attack combo; only if the definition of an anti attack (as in the BB-10) remains unchanged. Smile
I kinda want to see some testing on D:D in S mode.
It's circular, and S is used for Defense now sooooooo
(Apr. 05, 2012  8:15 PM)Raigeko13 Wrote: I kinda want to see some testing on DGrin in S mode.
It's circular, and S is used for Defense now sooooooo
ahhhhh you beat me to it. i was thinking the same thing. but anyway i do agree with you.

Kai-V
I just want to say that, since the gimmick of the stadium is so unpredictable, I think we should start with someone doing ten or twenty tests one day, and then, on another day, the same person does the same amount of tests. Would they necessarily be the same, hah ?
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